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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: pettsy on Wednesday 24 September 08 14:09 BST (UK)
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Can someone please help me to find the death of Thomas Dwyer.
He was born c1840.
I am hoping to find his death between 1892 (daughters wedding in May)
And 1916 when his wife died and she was stated as a Widow.
I am looking at the London area's of either Chelsea, Fulham or Westminster.
Thank you :)
Pettsy
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65 Eugenia Rd Rotherhithe London
RG12/385 92 8
Rich'd Piddock 52 Southwark General Labourer
Sophia 30 Lambeth
Francis 10 Southwark Scholar
Sophie 8 " "
Albt 5 " "
Florence 3 " "
Robt 1 "
George Carter Visitor 30 Southwark General Labourer
Jane Carter 27 " "
George Carter 4 "
Catherine Carter 3 "
Louisa Carter 10 mths Deptford
Cazay
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Whoops ???
Posted to your other post
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Hi Pettsy,
This could be him:
1902, Apr - Jun, Kensington, Thomas Dwyer, 63.
Ref: Vol. 1a, page 92
Ninakins
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Hi Cazay
No problem, thanks for your help ;D
Hi ninakin, Yes that could be him, the age of death works with the date I have for his birth.
Are there any deaths for Chelsea at all?
Thank you
Pettsy ;)
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No deaths for Chelsea I'm afraid. Kensington is your best bet.
Good luck!
Ninakin
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Okay that must be him. My parents still live in Kensington
I will take a chance.
Thanks
Pettsy
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I ordered the certificate yesterday, so fingers crossed it's him ;)
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Good luck, I'll keep mine crossed too! ;)
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Mum just telephoned me with the details of the death certificate.
Thomas Dwyer died 25th May 1902. In Kensington Infirmary.
He was 63y and a Furniture Porter.
Informant of death was his daughter Mary Hickely ???
It is not my Thomas as he wasn't a furniture packer, nor did he have a daughter called Mary ???
Wonder where he is then?
I am going to try different variants of his name.
Any ideas?
Thanks Pettsy
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Hi Pettsy,
What a shame! It seemed to be such a good match - sorry!
I'll have a look for him if you could provide some info like place of birth, wife's name, children, occupation, where he was in the various censuses. Any usual misspelling of Dwyer I should look for?
Ninakin
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Hi Nanakin,
Please don't be sorry , it was worth a shot ;)
Right I will give you all I have on Thomas Dwyer.
1) He was born in 1837, Chelsea or Marylebone.
2) He was married to (still found no marriage cert, so I guess cohabiting) with Jane Dwyer nee McManus b.1845, Chelsea.
3) Their children were John b.1863, Catherine b.1865, Thomas b. 1868, Alice Jane b. 1871? and Caroline Ellen b.1873.
4) I have Thomas on census in 1841, 1871 & 1881.
5) Jane McManus 1851, 1871 & 1881.
6) Thomas was named as father, General Dealer.
No mention of deceased or not?
7) On Jane's death cert 26th Dec 1916, she was named as WIDOW of Thomas Dywer, a General dealer.
She died in College Place, Chelsea.
Daughter Catherine Rudd present at her death.
8) On the 1881 census they were living at New Peter St, Westminster. All born Chelsea.
John had left home, Alice died, and Caroline is called Fanny.
Maybe his was already dead at the time of Caroline's marriage.
I tried Dwyre with no luck.
Thanks for your help.
Pettsy ;D
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He's not an easy man to find your Thomas Dwyer. I can't find him, or even the other Thomas Dwyer whose death certificate you have, in the 1901. Does the death certificate say it's his daughter? Could it be granddaughter, or any other relative? (or even a daughter from previous marriage?) I have an ancestor whose death certificate has his 'daughter' as informant, but she was in fact his second wife's niece who looked after him the last few years.
His occupation as a furniture porter, is this something he could have been doing the last few years?
There is another death which could fit, but this was before his daughter's marriage:
1888 Apr-May-Jun Poplar, Thomas Dwyer, born abt. 1843.
It wouldn't necessarily say father deceased on his daughter's marriage certificate even if he was, or at least, that's my experience.
Is there a possibility he was married to someone else and his wife was alive? Perhaps this is the reason we can't find a marriage for him and Jane McManus.
Sorry I can't be of more help, good luck with finding him!
Ninakin
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I won't have the cert until Weds, but mum said it said it was his daughter.
As far as I can work out he had three daughters.
One was Caroline my great gran, Alice who died young, and Catherine who married a Mr Rudd.
I do believe that Thomas and Jane never married.
And I had trouble finding his children with Jane apart from my great gran, the last child born who was born CAROLINE ELLEN DWYER.
Valda found John McManus, Thomas Dwyer McManus, Catherine Dwyer McManus.
Which I guess proves they never married.
I am going to order Thomas Dwyer McManus birth cert on Weds.
Of course this death still could be "my" Thomas and it was his daughter by his first marriage ::)
And he changed jobs which lots have going by my various census.
Could he have died abroad? Is there an index for deaths abroad?
Pettsy
Oh the plot thickens.
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It certainly looks like Thomas and Jane never married if their children were found as Dwyer McManus. At least there should be no doubt as to who the father is. When it comes to deaths abroad I have no idea, but I guess you should ask yourself how likely it would be that a man of his age would travel abroad, and why, given his occupation. Never say never of course!
Perhaps you could have a look for another marriage for Thomas? He was older than Jane so could have married someone else a few years before meeting her and having John, their first child. I would guess it could be a London/Middlesex marriage as this is where he came from, but there's no guarantee.
Good luck with ordering the Thomas Dwyer McManus certificate - hopefully you will get a new clue as to who Thomas was. Keep us posted!
Ninakin
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Thanks for you help.
I will keep you posted, I am intrigued now.
Pettsy ;D
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I decided to have another look at the death cert, as I still can find no other death cert which comes near to my Thomas.
His daughter was named as Mary Hickey, living at 47, Hunt St.
I found a marriage for William Hickey and Mary Dwyer Sept Q 1890, 1a 342b, Kensington.
They are also on the 1901 census, same address, 47, Hunt St.
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That looks promising! I found the marriage, but I looked for Mary and William Hickey in the 1901 but couldn't find them (can't search on address), what is the reference, and how old is she?
Ninakin
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Didn't write down ref :-\ Was just making notes, now my Ancestry run out :'(
1901 Census
William Hickey b.1869 General Lab b. Kensington
Mary Hickey b.1871 Washer Woman b. Kensingon.
Helen Hickey 11y Kensington
John Hickey 4y Kensington
Patrick Hickey 1y
47 Hunt Street.
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Found them! The reference is RG13, piece 43, folio 125, page 20.
The question is, where does Mary fit in as Thomas's daughter? There are more than one Mary Dwyer born in Kensington/Chelsea around that time (abt. 1871). Perhaps ordering her marriage certificate to William Hickey is a good idea, just to make sure she is his daughter.
Found a possible entry in the 1881 for Mary Dwyer, daughter of Thomas:
2 Portland Place, Pottery Lane, Kensington (RG11, piece 31, folio 32, page 3)
Thomas Dwyer, Head, mar, 50, Labourer, born Limerick, Ireland
Ellen Dwyer, wife, mar, 44, Born Ireland Cork
Mary F. Dwyer, dau, 10, born Kensington.
I don't know what you makes of this? ??? Is it 'the other' Thomas Dwyer I wonder?
Ninakin
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;D
Yes I saw that too.
I thought ah that is "my" Thomas with his wife, I even found their marriage Thomas Dwyer to Ellen Kalahar Kensington
Dec Q 1a 217 1853.
Both Thomas adn Ellen were born in Ireland, now this is where it gets confusing, my grandad told my mum they were both from Ireland Thomas & Jane Dwyer that is, but going by census they both state Chelsea, and I have Jane's birth cert in Chelsea too ???
Mary Hickey nee Dwyer was on the death cert I ordered for Thomas.
It could be his daughter from his first wife, then we went off with Jane McManus.
Or it is the completely wrong Thomas, and my Thomas death cert is nowhere to be found :-\
Agh ::)
Pettsy
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I think you're on to something there... Mary could be the daughter of your Thomas, but with his first (and only?) wife Ellen, as it seems he never married Jane McManus. Or was he with both at the same time...?
Good luck with finding him!
Ninakin
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Ninakin we received a copy of John Dwyer McManus birth cert this morning.
John Dwyer 24th Sept 1863. 24 Wickham Place, Chelsea.
Father JOHN Dwyer Occ: Green Grocer. (same occ as Thomas)
Mother Jane McManus.
Now either Thomas is John Thomas Dwyer or Thomas John Dwyer. Or Jane was with brothers ::)
I will have to look for a John Dwyer now, on the census we cannot find Thomas.
I already have a Thomas Cox, who is also a John Cox.
Even my dad uses his middle name ::)
Pettsy
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Hi Pettsy,
Well, this gets stranger and stranger... I've had a look for John Dwyer with Jane in the 1891, but haven't found them, nor their children. I've tried searching with both surname and first names but no luck. It's very frustrating when they swap between their first and middle names, isn't it! It looks like Thomas could have been John Thomas or Thomas John but I can't see him in the 1891 or 1901.
Sorry I can't be of more help, perhaps you can put a new post out with the new information you have, someone's bound to find something!
Best wishes,
Ninakin
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Thanks for looking Ninakin, it's a mystery.
It also says Mother Jane McManus now the wife of John Dwyer.
They also didn't register the birth until the 5th Nov.
So either they got married in between those dates or they lied. ::)