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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: bronnie on Tuesday 23 September 08 09:49 BST (UK)
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My grandfather was born at number 1 Pentre Bont, Dolwyddelan. In the 1891 Census, there are 23 dwellings listed in Pentre Bont. I can only identify it as a general area on maps old and new. Other members of his family lived for many years round the corner in Benar Terrace / Tan y Benar Dolwyddelan from c1881 .
I wondered whether the cottages up the hill, now with a street sign 'High Street', might have been formerly known as 1-23 Pentre Bont as I can't find High Street on the 1891 Census for that district. Individual properties in the immediate vicinity of the present High Street are listed on the 1891 in close proximity to dwellings number 1 to 23 Pentre Bont. Of course it is possible these dwellings no longer exist.
Any insider info would be so helpful.
Thank you
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Hi I cant be 100% certain but I dont think the houses are there any longer,my dad was born in Dolwyddelan and his family lived there for generations, including pentre bont. I havent been there for years but seem to remember my taid (granddad) telling me the houses his grandparents had lived in at pentre Bont wasnt there any more, wish now I had listned to his stories more closely.
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Hi
Many thanks for your reply. I think you're probably right, the cottages have gone.
Don't we all wish we'd listened to the stories more carefully and asked more questions when we had the chance.......?!
Your family from Dolwyddelan are not Roberts ( or even Williams said she, clutching at straws!!)are they? .....Must be worth asking, gotta be a 50/50 chance in these parts!
Thanks again anyway
Bronwen
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The branch of the family from pentre Bont is Williams as it happens Daniel and Ann Williams m 1865 one of their children Ellinor (Ellen) b1876 was my gt. grandmotherThey were at pentre bont between 1865 and 1873 so my taid was a little out with his places. I have the front page of the family bible which has given me all the details sadly the rest of the bible had fallen to pieces and the page I have is very fragile
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The reason I ask about Williams is that my grandfather had 2 half brothers of this name, born 1880 and 1886. Not the same immediate branch of your Williams family however!
Thanks for response. Always worth a try!
Bronwen
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Hello, I've just seen this thread...I have Williamses, Moses and Catherine Jane, and Pentre-Bont sounds very very familiar, I'm sure some of them were there. Also Ty-Capel, so maybe it was the generation before. Give me a while to check my notes and see what I've got.
Did any of your Williamses emigrate?
Cheers,
China
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Did any of your Williamses emigrate?
Not to my knowledge, although I don't know a lot about them.
My great grandmother Gwen was widow of Hugh Williams(1856), whose family farmed at Pen Rhiw, Dolwyddelan. ( I already have a Rootschatter connection for this family).
Gwen had 2 sons, Robert (1880) and Griffith (1886), living with her in Pentre Bont in 1891. Robert was a quarryman by 1901, still living with her and second husband in Blaenau Ffestiniog, whilst Griffith was a farm worker at Hafod Gwennlian, nr Roman Bridge. I believe Griffith went on to have a daughter Gwen but that's all I know. They would be my grandfather's half-brothers.
Bronwen
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Hello Bronwen...my mistake, Pentre Bont sounded familiar because it's right by the train station in Dolwyddelan. We used to take the train from London and walk from the Dolwyddelan station to my mother's aunt's house.
Pen Rhiw is interesting though. My Williamses were at BeudyBach, or BendyBach, in 1851 and 1861. The very next entries, so presumably the next farm, on the census sheets are more Williamses at Pen Rhiw.
Even though I know that Williamses are not necessarily related to each other, there still might be a connection...I'd like to know when they all started using the Williams family name...
Cheers,
China
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Oh, and my lot were at Tan-y-Benar in 1891.
C
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Wait a minute...I have a bunch of Ellises living at "Pentre" in 1861...would this be the same place?
Cheers,
C
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Hello China,
I've just joined rootschat. I've noticed that you have a connection to the Williams family from Beudy Bach in Dolwyddelan. I am directly descended from Robert and Gwen Williams who lived there in 1841 through their daughter Catherine (b 1839). What is your connection please?
I have a lot of information on this family and their descendants and I know the Dolwyddelan area well.
Willjay
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Hi Bronnie,
I know the Dolwyddelan area well and I'm descended from one of the Beudu Bach Williams family in Roman Bridge. I can confirm that the current High Street is the old part of Pentre Bont. There are still several very old quarryman's cottages there which have individual names. These may once have had numbers.
Willjay
My grandfather was born at number 1 Pentre Bont, Dolwyddelan. In the 1891 Census, there are 23 dwellings listed in Pentre Bont. I can only identify it as a general area on maps old and new. Other members of his family lived for many years round the corner in Benar Terrace / Tan y Benar Dolwyddelan from c1881 .
I wondered whether the cottages up the hill, now with a street sign 'High Street', might have been formerly known as 1-23 Pentre Bont as I can't find High Street on the 1891 Census for that district. Individual properties in the immediate vicinity of the present High Street are listed on the 1891 in close proximity to dwellings number 1 to 23 Pentre Bont. Of course it is possible these dwellings no longer exist.
Any insider info would be so helpful.
Thank you
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Thanks for your reply, Willjay. I visited last year and took some photos. Curious to know if the cottage in which my gf was born is still there!
Note you, like me also have Dolwyddelan Roberts in your tree. Mine originated from Cwm Dyli, Bedgellert.
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Hope this link works.
Have just come across this picture of old cottages in Pentre Bont. They look much older than the ones that are still standing today in 'High Street'. Wondering if this maybe grandfather's birthplace and these are the ones that are no longer in existence.
http://www.dolwyddelan.org/heritage/gallery.html
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Wonderful photos, thanks for posting this...I was unaware of the website.
Doing a photo search for Ty-Capel, Dolwyddelan, I was surprised to find a photo of my cat. It was my avatar, from this thread :D
Cheers,
China
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I think the old Pentrebont cottages in the photo still exist - now done up as holiday homes. There is also a Ty Capel in Pentrebont as well as the one behind the later Moriah chapel on the main road.
Willjay
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Thanks willjay
Just had a look at some pics of the cottages on High Street as they stand today and on reflection, they do look like the same ones. My gfather was born in 1892 at "number 1 Pentre Bont" , according to his birth cert! I did walk up High Street when I visited last year, but wasn't sure whether this was the same place!
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Don't know whether it's right to post this or not.
I'm doing a lot of random googling at the moment and when I come up with little gems like this, I'm loathe to let them disappear back into cyberspace in case there's a rootschatterer who they might strike a chord with!
http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/large/item/7434/
I know there are a few of us here researching the Dolwyddelan Williams's!!
Bron
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Sorry....just reread that and should've said " with whom they strike a chord" !!
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Lovely photo...love the hat on the right :D
The 1901 has 4 Ann Williamses living in Dolwyddelan, one a child and the other three born in 1847, 1851 and 1867. In 1901 the 1851 one was head of family.
This one would seem to have a husband seated next to her.
So...if that's her husband...is she the 1847 or the 1867? Does she look 60, or does she look 80? And if she's the 1847 one, what are the chances that her husband has also lived as long?
Any other possibilities? And isn't this fun? ;D
China
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Soooo...if she's the 1867 one, she's married to Robert born 1864ish in Dolwyddelan.
There are 5 Robert Williamses in 1871 who were born in Dolwyddelan from abt 1863-1865. One of those would be my grandmother's uncle.
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Hi China/Bron and Willjay
Is it worth checking with the newspaper to see if there is any more detail? She might belong to any or all of us!!
Peter
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Good idea, Peter!
Will email them.
The Gee medal was awarded for exceptional service to Sunday Schools of all denominations in Wales.
Ann and William (aged 34 and 37 ) appeared to be childless in 1901. Do you think this might possibly make her more likely to be involved in Sunday schools; many teachers being childless spinsters in times past?
We'll see!!
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I mean Ann and Robert.
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Conwy archive has replied and there doesn't semm to be any further information directly attached to the photograph.
Here's the reply!
Dear...................
Thank you for your enquiry about the Williams family of Dolwyddelan. We have local newspapers for the period which may include reference to the photograph you refer to and you are welcome to come in and search them yourself. We will undertake short pieces of research for free, but unfortunately searching 2 years of newspapers (and there are 2 possible newspapers that could include something) would take a few hours and is beyond our capacity.
Alternatively you may know someone more local to Llandudno who would undertake the work for you. We do have a paid research service ourselves, but at £20 for an hour's work I hesitate to recommend it, as an hour could easily be completely inadequate.
With best wishes,
Susan Ellis
;D !!
Bron
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Hi Bron
It appears that the medal is still being awarded - occasional references when googling. They are awarded I 'think' by the order of Welsh Independent Chapels and I have emailed them to see if they can help.
Peter
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Hi Bron
Just to keep you updated my email reply gave me the name of the secretary of the Welsh Free Churches' Council who administer the scheme and I have now emailed him.
Fingers crossed
Peter
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Thanks, Peter!
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Hi Everyone. We are also searching for Williams' from Dolwyddelan and at least 2 sisters, Gwen & Betty emmigrated to Australia just before WWII. The parents were Robert Griffith Williams & Ellen Williams from Bwlch Cyn(w)yd Farm although Roberts possible death certificate shows him at Pen Rhiw Farm in later years - if it's the same Williams family.
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Hi KeanaKoala
This is very strange - you are talking about my mother Gwen. I just Googled Penrhiw Dolwyddelan and found this site and your message. I thought I knew all my relatives on the Williams side. I am very curious about your interest in the family.
I know that it is not the same Williams family that the others are looking for as they only bought Penrhiw in 1933 and my grandfather originally came from Capel Curig.
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Hi SydneyPenrhiw
My family research has some gaps in it and we are checking various archives to complete the picture.
We are looking into a connection with a Williams family in North Wales and Australia.
If we can confirm some details maybe we can see if there is any connection between my family and yours.
We have a reference of a passenger list to Australia and a possible census record in Australia some years later but then can get no further. Did your mother (& Betty Williams) ever return to the UK?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Hi KeanaKoala
You have done a lot of work.
My mother never did get back to Wales but Betty made a short visit in 1981. I am an only child and Betty had no children.
Hope this helps.
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Hi SydneyPenrhiw
Thanks for all that info. This seems to match with our records. From what we have uncovered we have some documents that may be of interest to you eg. leaving the UK, passenger lists, electoral rolls, certificates. Let me know if you are interested so we can explore this connection. We can use the personal message (PM) facility on this site for sending more detailed info.
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Benar Terrace, Dolwyddelan, Gwynedd LL25 0UZ, United Kingdom
do you have google earth
it shows you the place you are lookin for
sylvia
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With reference to the Gee medal which was mentioned earlier in this thread - as I had not received a reply to my enquiry I have followed it up on my return from holiday. Again I have received an acknowledgement from the person who my contact contacted if you see what I mean. This contact however has to contact yet another person and has chased it up.
Hope this makes sense and I will let you know the outcome.
I have read with interest about the other Williams family and would mention that the farmer at Penrhiw when I called a few years ago was a Gwynedd Williams.
Peter
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Hi Peter & Everyone
I'd like to encourage you all to keep on keeping on with your searches and researches whilst exploring outside the box. Especially go with your hunches and those quiet thoughts that seem to pop in from 'nowhere'! Through this site we have found all our family in both Dolwyddelan and Australia and I'm sure there will be some travel plans made soon. The synchronicity has been amazing..........BTW Gwyn turns out to be my 2nd cousin.
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I have now received confirmation that there do not appear to be records of the Gee medal from that period.
Disappointing.
Peter
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Hi SydneyPenhriw and Keanakoala
Did you see this recent post, presume they are researching the same family.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=31qpijjikubjeduqrocmmcorc1&topic=409970.0
Regards
Bron
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Hi Bron
Brynorme is actually my brother who must have posted before I did.
Turns out that one piece of info I included in my post, as a last minute thought, was what found my family!
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Hi and Happy New Year all!
I find the following site a marvellous resource. Have mentioned it today on another thread. Here is a link to the Dolwyddelan pages for those that don't already know about the site.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=9931927
The site's aim is to photograph every grid square of the British Isles. The contributors are volunteers and every photograph has a map reference.
Hope you enjoy the link and maybe find something useful towards your research to boot!
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What a fantastic website, I hadn't seen it before and it will be very useful.
I see the Co-op is now a Spar :o
Cheers,
China
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I will add this photo to the Dolwyddelan thread in case anyone else does a search at a later date.
Photo number 38 is of Alice Roberts, Amnen, Maes-y-Braich, Dolwyddelan. There are also Roberts in photo 37.
http://www.dolwyddelan.org/heritage/gallery.html
I have numerous Alice Roberts in my tree, but sadly can't say whether this lady is one of them or not at the moment!