RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 11:13 BST (UK)

Title: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 11:13 BST (UK)
right , here goes , I have a george cox born 1807 b/ham , wife is elizabeth .
then I have a henry brigdens son in law on the same census , so I am presuming henry,s wife sarah is the daughter of george and elizabeth!but it states that she is georges grandaughter !anyway (are you all keeping up ? )also in the same house is a sarah edgeley and 3 of her siblings, all grandchildren of george and elizabeth ! can anyone find george and elizabeth on a census bar the 1871 that I have ? rg10 3148 15 23.
 sarah edgely grew up and married george smith but I cant find her parents , cant find a marriage to george (about 1880 )cant find her grandparents on any other census so I am in a bit of a muddle ! help me please ! jasper 2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: catylou on Saturday 20 September 08 11:32 BST (UK)
Don't know whether this helps, but I have my g.g.grandfather on the 1851 census listed as son in law, when he's actually step son (he was born illegitimate and his mother later married and had more kids).

Cheers,

Cate.
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Bill Hall on Saturday 20 September 08 12:13 BST (UK)
George Cox is on 1841 Census, aged 30 (HO 107/1127/8) living in Lea Marston with Elizabeth Walker 15 (whom he later married) and Catherine Harvey aged 35!!!!
In 1861 (RG9 2188) he and Elizabeth have 2 sons George (b. 1847) and Edward (b. 1851)
George Junior has left by 1871. I have a different RG number and can't find any Henry or Sarah Brigden.
In 1881 (RG11/3052) they are still living with son Edward.
In 1891 (RG12/2440) George is widowed, he and Edward have a servant Mary  A. Green.
Is this the same family as yours?
Hope this helps
Bill Hall
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 12:25 BST (UK)
no bill , they are a different family (they come up in the 1871 census like my george and elizabeth ! they are really hard to find !
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 12:27 BST (UK)
thanks for looking tho bill !
I found john edgeley (brother of sarah ) living with a married sister and also a lodger by the name of elizabeth bridgen (1891) so they are all related somewhere ! thanks also to cate ! jasper2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 12:30 BST (UK)
george and elizabeth are living in aston , the town of duddeston cum nechelles! where ever that is ! jasper2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 20 September 08 12:41 BST (UK)
I too have been trying to sort this out but getting nowhere..quickley..Im convinced Elizabeth is Geo Cox 2nd wife but I cant find a marriage ..of course its possible that they just lived together.

Will keep digging for now  8) 8)

Jane
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Mum44 on Saturday 20 September 08 12:50 BST (UK)


I too have been struggling with this all morning   ;D

I think Elizabeth was previously Bridgens - married to Henry Bridgens in 1838 in Stourbridge.  In 1841 they have no children,  by 1851 they are livng in Birmingham and have  Thomas b. 1842, Mary Ann b. 1844 and Henry b. 1848.

A Henry Bridgens dies Q1. 1852 Aston.  Can't see them in 1861 at all   :(  :(

Can't see a marriage for Elizabeth and George   :(   As you say, Jane, maybe there wasn't one  :(
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 20 September 08 13:00 BST (UK)
Hi Mum..My findings are exactly the same as yours..will carry on a bit longer..

Jane
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 13:02 BST (UK)
thankyou guys for helping ! jasper2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: wendy47 on Saturday 20 September 08 13:05 BST (UK)
Hi Jasper

Are you sure George's age is 64 and not 44 on the 1871 Census?
Also Henry & Sarah Bridgens are ringed together by the enumerator and she looks to be George's stepdaughter.

Wendy47
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Isobelruss on Saturday 20 September 08 13:06 BST (UK)
George Cox age looks more like 44 not 64 on image,maybe hes wrongly transcribed and thats why we cant see him.

Isy

thats just what I was writing Wendy
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 20 September 08 13:10 BST (UK)
Hanging my head in shame for not noticing that.. :-[ :-[ :-[ LOL!!!!!!!!!..did notice the ringed together bit though ;) ;)

Jane
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 13:11 BST (UK)
on the only census (1871 ) I have of him it says he was born 1807? going back to elizabeth married to henry brigden thing , on the census there is a matilda smith , might be nothing but sarah edgeley (george and elizabeths grandaughter married a george smith! jasper
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 20 September 08 13:17 BST (UK)
Hi Jasper

It says 1807 on the cencus simply because the person who transcibed the image read it as age 64..therefore it was a case of deducting 64 from 1871 which gives 1807.

Jane
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 13:18 BST (UK)
so he might of been born about 1827?jasper
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: mariac on Saturday 20 September 08 13:52 BST (UK)
Hi there,
Like you Mum have been trying to sort something out here but not getting anywhere.
On the 1871 census it  looks like daughter for Sarah not step-daughter.
There is a birth for Sarah Elizabeth Cox  in Leicester June Q 1843 Vol 115 P110
Did it say George was a ? button maker on the 1871 census? Cant quite make out the first word.
Mariac


   
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 13:55 BST (UK)
yes I think he was a button maker  ,jasper
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: mariac on Saturday 20 September 08 14:14 BST (UK)

Have just found this 1861 census RG9 piece 2147 Folio 13 P9
Birmingham
Henry Bridgen 22 Stourbridge glass blower
Clara    do      22   Birmingham  tin plate worker
Thomas  do    2mths  do

Birth Thomas Bridgen Birmingham june Q 1861
Death   Thomas Bridgen  do        Sept Q 1861

Possible marriage Henry Bridgens m Clara Bellamy Dec Q 1860 Birmingham Vol 6d p 202
Is it possible that Clara and Sarah may be the same person ??? ::)
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Saturday 20 September 08 14:31 BST (UK)
I did see this before and wondered if it was a spelling mistake ! I will look into it further ! ta very much all ! jasper !
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 01:30 BST (UK)
Hi Jasper,

I read Henry Bridgens' age as 23 on the 1871 census, so don't think he could be the same one in 1861 census aged 22 married to Clara. 

The order of the children on the 1871 suggests that John Bridgen aged 11 is the son of perhaps a brother of Henry, and that only Thomas Henry is Henry & Sarah's son.

Possible parents for John, he is not with them in 1871:

1861 RG9/2162 fol.75 p.13
William & Martha Bridgins with children
James H 9, Richard 7, George 5, John H 1

 
I wonder if Sarah died, and this could be Henry in 1881, remarried to a Mary Jane, with the Edgley children John & Harriet taking his name

RG11/3029 fol.110 p.9
2 Ct, 8 House,  Richard Street,  Aston
BRIDGENS
Henry             head 33  Glass Blower     Birmingham    
Mary Jane       wife  32  Wife of  "  "    
John               son   16   Gun Barrel Filer          "    
Harriet            dau  12   Scholar                      "
Thomas           son  11       "                             "     
Mary Maria      dau    7       "                             "
Benjamin         son    6        "                            "
Elizabeth         dau    5        "                            "      
Maria ALSOPP m.in.law     wid 50  Bridle Stitcher    Walsall, Stafford


A couple of certificates needed here I think, I'd start with Louisa Edgely's birth
Mar 1870   Aston    6d   305 
- or  Thomas Henry Bridgens  - Mar 1871  Aston    6d   346
then you'd know for certain what Sarah's maiden name was.

Maybe the older Edgleys were children of Sarah before Sarah & Henry's marriage - as he would only have been abt 15 when Sarah Edgley was born.


Hope this helps,
Barbara 
 :)

Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 09:54 BST (UK)
hi barbara , I have found john edgeley on the1891, 1901 and the 1871 census , the 1891 and 01 census he is living with his sister mary ann who is now married to william trowman ,
harriet is also on a census working as a servant so I really dont think this is them in 1881 , but all ideas are gratefully accepted ! cos I havent a clue as to who the parents are ! If george cox showed up somewhere I might have a bit of a chance to sort out this muddle !  but thanks to all and everyone who has spent time looking for them !
perhaps if I could find sareh edgeley and george smiths marriage it would help with the detective work as the marriage certificate should state her father ! at least it would be a start!  I will keep digging and see what comes about ! jasper2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: mariac on Sunday 21 September 08 10:04 BST (UK)
Hi Jasper,
   Do you have a certificate or something else to know that the family in the 1871 census are the correct people you are looking for? Just wondering ???
 
It does seem strange that George Cox does not seem to be anywhere on any other census doesnt it?
Regards
Mariac
 
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 10:12 BST (UK)
Hi Jasper,

I agree with mariac, and as I said earlier, you really need some confirmation by getting the birth certificate for Thomas Henry Bridgens 1870

Then you'll know for sure if his mother Sarah was actually a Cox and George's daughter, or if she was his daughter-in-law and married to the son of George's (possible) second wife as Mum44 found earlier.  Then you would be able to get further back with George too. (otherwise it's all guesswork)

As to the Edgleys, if you don't think I've found the right ones in 1881, have you been able to find any of them in that census?? 

Kind regards,
Barbara
 :)

Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 11:40 BST (UK)
ok , back to the beginning, my great greatgrandmother was ada harriett smith , on her birth certificate her father was georgeand mother sarah (formerley edgeley)
I have several census records with ada and her mum and dad , it is on these census that sarah was from leceister so ive been trying to find sarah with her parents and found her with grandparents instead !
sarah married george smith  1880 ish and after george died she married an edward keatley in 1905 who happened to be lodging with them in 1901 !
barbara , they could be my lot but I will probe deeper and have a little look the family mentioned earlier with alsopp as mother in law is definetly not sarah cox/brigden etc she is sarah wilder so that eliminates her ! what a hard family to have !!!!! thankyou !!!! all soo much !
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 11:56 BST (UK)
Right!  So take it one step at a time, and your first step is to find George Smith/Sarah Edgley's marriage before anything else, I feel.

Not on freebmd it seems, so have you looked right through the full GRO index?

Barbara
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 12:00 BST (UK)
BARBARA  BARBARA !!!!! JASPER IS A MUPPETT! YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT I THINK!  right in the time between the postings this is what I found out
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 12:02 BST (UK)
2 husbands ! one is henry bridgen   the other was vincent edgeley (1859 barrow on soar leicester !) sarahs maiden name is WILDERS
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 12:08 BST (UK)
JASPER IS A MUPPETT!

Can we all have that in writing   ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 12:11 BST (UK)
JASPER IS A MUPPETT!!!!!! LOL
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Mum44 on Sunday 21 September 08 12:16 BST (UK)


You might not believe this, but in the two pages of notes I made yesterday ( :o ) I have written down:

Vincent Edgley Q1 1859 Sarah Wilders

but I didn't persue it because the surname wasn't in the frame   ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 12:17 BST (UK)
what stars you all are !!!! mwaaaaah xxx jasper2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 12:42 BST (UK)
So can I recap?

Sarah Wilders married Vincent Edgley and had  5 children with him, then married Henry Bridgens and had John Thomas.

Henry Bridgen's mother was Elizabeth who married George Cox, so George was only related by marriage to Sarah. (so do we still need to find the elusive George??)

Next step is to find Sarah and Vincent in 1861 then?  :-\

Barbara
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 12:46 BST (UK)
I have sarah wilder in 1851 quorn in leciester ? jasper 2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: mariac on Sunday 21 September 08 12:57 BST (UK)
ok so is it Sarah Edgley daughter of Vince Edgley and Sarah Wilders who married George Smith? Is that right??
Therefore this Sarah would be Ada Harriett's mother
Mariac
 
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 12:58 BST (UK)
Looks like it, Mariac

The marriage was Mar 1859  Barrow on S.    7a   207
 Vincent EDGLEY  and Sarah WILDERS

So the Sarah in Quorndon 1851 looks ok, Quorndon was in Barrow on Soar registration district

Still looking for them in 1861 though
       
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Mum44 on Sunday 21 September 08 13:00 BST (UK)

This looks like Vincent in 1851:

HO107.  P. 2093  Fol. 255 Pg. 16

Drayton , Leics

EDGLEY
Thomas  head  M  52  Ag lab  B. Drayton
Mary  Wife  M  42                    B. Mount Sorrel
Vincen  Son  16
Selina  Dau  10
Thomas  Son  7
Louiza  Dau  4

all children born Drayton.
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 13:02 BST (UK)
yes sarah edgeley married george smith and had ada harriett
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 13:11 BST (UK)
Found,  indexed as Venson Hedgley, as indeed written on the census sheet  ::)

1861 RG9/2280  Folio  70  Page  16
New Quorn, Quorndon, Leics
HEDGLEY
Venson   head m 26 Stone Quarrier  Driton (Drayton)
Sarah     wife   m 19                          Quorndon
Thomas   son         2                                 "


Barbara
   
   
 
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 13:14 BST (UK)
you are a star barbara! crikes their spellings ! jasper 2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: mariac on Sunday 21 September 08 13:15 BST (UK)
Well done Barbara and Mum44 :D :)
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 13:18 BST (UK)
yes  !!!!!! a big well done to one and all !!!I would have NEVER sorted this one out on my own , what a family ! well done all and a very very big thankyou my muddle is now quite clear !!!! fanks ! jasper2
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Ecneps on Sunday 21 September 08 13:28 BST (UK)
1841 HO107/589/9  Folio  5  Page  8 
Bringhurst,  Leicestershire 
EDGLEY
Thomas   50  Ag. Lab
Mary        35
William      9
Vincent     6
Selina      7 mo

all born in county



   
 
 
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 21 September 08 13:32 BST (UK)
yep ! im on the trail !!!! thankyou !
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Phil G on Saturday 15 November 08 21:49 GMT (UK)
Hi

Have just picked up this saga in my puruance of Sarah Wilders, b. Quorndon (Quorn) Leics in 1842.

Just when I thought I had all this worked out I discovered what I believe to be Sarah's death in 9/1879 Barrow on Soar 7a84 aged 37. Quorndon is in Barrow RD. I had been looking in 1871/72 as I had found Henry Bridgens marriage to Mary Ann Oliver in Shiffnal 9/1872 6a1027.

This means that Henry & Sarah probably weren't legally married in 1871 or Henry committed bigamy which could be why he and Mary Ann, both Brummie born married in Shiffnal.

In the 1881 census entry for Henry & Mary Ann, three of the children listed are born before the marriage. They are, Thomas (10) who is Henry & Sarah's son in 1871. John 16 who is John Edgley aged 5 in 1871 and Harriett aged 11 who is Harriett Edgley aged 2 in 1871.

Still working on this

Cheers

Phil Stevens


Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 16 November 08 08:53 GMT (UK)
thankyou for that ! I already suspected sarah married this bridgens chap because of the george and elizabeth cox thing before ! at the moment im in a bit of a muddle with them ,still tho I have traced back sarah edgley and all her siblings , tho im miffed at not finding sarah edgley and george smith marriage !  John edgley is with a bridgens later on in the census records so ther is a connection ! which edgley are you interested in ? many thanks jasper,
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: Phil G on Sunday 16 November 08 10:15 GMT (UK)
Hi

Please mil me at (*)

It's easier to have a conversation direct. My interest in the Edgley family is thro' Sarah Wilders and my interest inher is distant.

However, once I get involved in one of these searches I'm like a dog with a bone.

Cheers

Phil

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page:  http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Title: Re: can someone sort out my muddle please !
Post by: jasper2 on Sunday 16 November 08 13:48 GMT (UK)
ok I will email you direct ! im the same ( a dog with a bone )! jasperx