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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: mickbirty on Tuesday 16 September 08 11:49 BST (UK)
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Hi.
I believe, according to my Uncle that somewhere along my Grandmothers side on my Dads side!!! I am related to Tim Brooke Taylor. Wow!!! :D The Goodies.
I have been doing research on my tree for some time and found that my Grandmother was Bessie (Betsy) Taylor. Her father was Joseph Taylor and her mother Elizabeth Ann Mallalieu.
Tim was born Timothy Julian Brooke Taylor on 17-7-1940. His father was Edward Mallalieu Brooke Taylor. Mother was Rachel Frances Brooke Taylor formerly Pawson daughter of the 1883-1885 England centre forward Rev Francis William Pawson again Wow!! They married 12 June 1928.
Edwards father was Herbert Brooke Taylor.
So I think the Mallalieu connection came from my grandmothers mother Elizabeth Ann Mallalieu
but I cant find a Brooke connection???
I have Herbert in 1881 aged 25 as a visitor in Broughton Salford and he was a solicitor. He was then a Brooke Taylor.
Then I have him in the 1871 as just 16 and son of the widow Sarah Taylor.
That is where I lose him. Could Herbert have married a Brooke and kids became Brooke Taylor??
Sorry for going on a bit.
Any help would be much appreciated.
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I see in 1881 when Herbert is a Brooke Taylor, that he is not married. Therefore the Brooke bit is unlikely to have come rom any marriage of his.
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Herbert was born Herbert Brooke Taylor
Ovt/Nov/Dec 1855 Bakewell distr ref 7b 479 (on freeBMD)
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Here he is in 1861 with his family
RG9 2538 54 21
Bakewell (sorry cant read road)
John Taylor 35 Attorney and Solicitor bn Bakewell
Catherine Ann 35 wifebn York
JAne Edith 9
Francis James 8
Alfred Hart 7
Herbert Brooke 5
Arthur George 4
Catherine Ann 2
MAry Gertrude 1
Nelson Major 4mths
all children bn Bakewell
9 children under 10! what hard work
there were also several servants, governess and nursemaid - I should think they needed them
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Here is the family in 1871. Iwonder if lots of the children have left home, though many would be young, or if a lot of them died in childhood illnesses
RG10 3625 46 18
Matlock Street Bakewell (thats what it was ni 1861 too)
John 45 Solicitor bn Bakewell
Catherine A 43 bn Yorkshire
Jane E 19
Francis J 18
Alice J 8
John A 5
Christopher W 4
plus servants etc
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Thanks for all that. So where is he at 16ish. I have him on the 1871 in Bow Wood Matlock as Herbert Taylor and a farm servant which is obviously wrong.
Then in 1881 as Herbert Brooke Taylor visitor in Salford. Which must be ok as he to is a solicitor, following his Dad.
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I dont think the Herbert Taylor you found in 1871 with widowed mum Sarah is him. Apart from the fact that his mum was Catherine, and his dad John was still alive in 1871, that one was a farm labourer. Herbet Brooke Taylor seemed to become a solicitor like his father.
just posting this and I see you have come to the same conclusion!!!
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Looking at the names of his siblings and children, do you think Brooke was just a middle name.
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so who did Herbert marry pre-1893 ?
Births Dec 1893
Taylor Edward Mallalieu B Bakewell v7b p770
Doesnt look like the name was intentionally double-barrelled back then .... and this chap waited a while before marrying in 1928 !
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Yes I do
His birth had it just as a middle name.
The family obviously regularly used surnames as middle names. they could come from way back, or from allsorts of sidelines. I guess if you did a tree as wide and as long as you can for him then the name Mallelieu will crop up somewhere. But it might not be in a direct line!
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Thanks a lot for all your help. It does look like it was a middle name. I will have a look more at the Taylors. That was my Grandmothers name. He could be one of my Great Uncles sons.
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1901 census helps us
RG13 3262 38 22
Old HAll Bakewell
Herbert B Taylor 45 Solicitor
MAry J wife 38
Mary B dtr 11
Edward M B 7
Geoffrey P B 5
William D B 3
Christopher Taylor brother 34 Mechanical Engineer
several servants
looking at this, I would say Herbert gave all his children miidle name Brooke - as they all have that initial ofB - can check on freeBMD I guess
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In 1891, a Solicitor in Bakewell - married to a Mary J c1863 from Ockbrook ...... so suspect from kids ages he married 1882 - 1886 .... but not locally it seems.
RG12/2773; Folio 8; Page 10;
so does the Mall* name come from the wife's line ?
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Yes I have that census, 1901.
The Edward M B Taylor is Tims father. The M is for Mallalieu, very strange for a middle name, do you he may have took it from one of his relations.
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Marriage Jul/Aug/Sep 1884
Herbert brooke Taylor
Sharlow Derbyshire ref 7b 683
however - ref must be wrong as it does not showothers on page correctly, they are all a diff area
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Think I might have sorted it!
Full marriage index shows marriage
j/a/s 1884
Mary Tait Mallalieu
Sharlow reg dis ref 7b 663
Bet that is who married Herbert!!! Thus they gave child that middle name..
Now how is Mary related to your Mallalieu rellie, Elizabeth...
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Well sorted Liz - I was trudging thru the transcription :)
1881 - trying to find a Mary J born 1863ish, Ockbrook - revealed this lot !
RG11/3392; Folio: 60; Page: 3 - Ockbrook
'Swallows Nest Settlement'
Charlotte Elz. Mallalieu Widow 51 Head Lady born Bath
Harriet Mallalieu 61 sister Ireland
Mary J aitt Mallalieu 18 dau Ockbrook
Charlotte J. Moxon 23 niece
Charlotte Nelson 4 niece
Harriet Nelson 27 niece
Clara Bosworth 16
Rhoda Keichel 55
Dinah Thomas 23
Margaret Thomas 21
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Brilliant just got there too.
Just got to find a link to my Mallalieu now
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God you lot are quick ;D
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So thatis where the name "Nelson" comes from that crops up for some little chaps name later on!
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Looks like it Liz
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1871
Moravian Settlemant Ockbrook
William 72 Moravian Minister and ...? bnLancashire
Harriette 51 bn BAth
William son 11 bn Ockbrook
MAry T? J? S? (one of them) 8 bn Ockbrook
Charlotte E cousin 41 unm bn Ireland
Harriete Moxon nece
Charlotte E moxon niece 13
various visitors, servants etc
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Mickbirty - can you tell us what you know about your Elizabeth Mallalieu now? date of birth, place of birth, etc etc, or where you have n havent found her on censuses.
Perhaps if we work on her we can see if she goes back to any Moravian Settlements .... ? ???
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Elizabeth Ann Mallalieu on 1871 census as Mallilew aged 7, father John 43, mother Margaret 32. Hannah 16, Alfred 5
Born Elizabeth Ann Mallalaew. 1863 q2 Bury 8c 439.
I think all correct although spellings are diff
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In the meantime here is MAry Taitt MAllalieu's birth
Oct/Nov/Dec 1862
Shardlow distr
ref 7b 345
If the BBC ever want to do a "WDYTYA" on Tim they only have to come here! Or have they done him already?
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I wish they had ;)
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The page number is wrong on Ancestry. 1871 census says page 4 of 64, it is actually page 36
40 Mather St Radcliffe
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ThanksI was just struggling with that!
i
I see we are in Lancashire
Now ... William, the very elderly dad of MAry tait Mallalieu was born Lancashire ....
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1861
Green Street Radcliffe
John 32 coal miner bn Ashton Under Lyme
MArgaret 28 b Bury
Hannah 6 bn Bury
Marriage
Ap/May/JUn 1852
Bury reg district ref 8c 415
John Mallalieu
Margaret Nuttall
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Looks promising with William b in Lancs
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Place of birth different, but going by occupation and surname of those he is lodging with, I'd say this is John in 1851
HO107 2215 22 59
Fernhill , Bury
William Nuttall 31
Sarah Nuttall 29
Thomas son 6
john son 6 mths
William Nuttall lodger coal miner 22
John Mallalieu lodger 22 coal miner bn Cheshire hyde
there are also 2 other John Mallalieus of simlilar age on 1851 born in Yorkshire
This is not easy - there are more Mallawotnots about that one would think!
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Fernhill and Fairfield quite close in Bury
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still looking hopeful!!
Anyway - just to return to old William again (sorry dont meant to confuse you, but just trying to reseach both mallalwotnot lines together in the hope that they have links!)
1861
RG9 2493 51 8
Moravian Settlement Ockbrook
William 62 Moravian minister bn Fairfield
Harriett wife 41 bn Bath
William 1 bn Fairfied
Frank William nephew 15 bn Fairfield
several servants
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Cant find William for sure in 1851 - though there are LOADS in the index.
Here is the nephew - quite interesting
HO107 2234 109 40
Droylsden
Francis C 41 Member of Royal College of Surgeons Licentiate of Apocrathies Society, in General Practice
Janetta wife 43
Frank William 5 son
all bn Fairfield
Must go now- I am sure you must be linked, but it could be a fair way back!
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The 1861 is saying William born in Derbyshire? And nephew Frank in Fairfield
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Ok thanks for your help and sorry for keeping you so long. I will keep searching. You put me on the right track I think ???
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The 1861 is saying William born in Derbyshire? And nephew Frank in Fairfield
Hmm - both born Fairfield, Lancashire
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Sorry looking at wrong one. You are right. Back to 1841 census and Francis and Janetta are there in Fairfield, on same page are another Mallalieu family and strangely a Brooke family.
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Interesting.
This could be years worth of work to sort - but if you are interested enough and determined enough it would be great to get together as full a tree as you can for your Elizabeth and also for Tim B-T 's Mallawotnots and see if they do link.
As I say I am sure they do - but whether or no trecords will survive that show it remains to be seen.
For example , there is a large well researched De Boo family tree back to Holme near Peterborough, that my husband descends from. Another De Boo researcher has a comprehensive tree that he comes on, also going to Holme, but as yet there is no evidence of a link - I am sure there is though. This is back to 1700's. Now in 1600's there is documentation of De Boos coming over fromFlanders to Thorney - hmmm maybe 20 miles at the most away from Holme. now we are pretty sure that both these lines of DeBoos probably descend from those settlers - but there is just no surviving dicumentation to confirm it.
You may find something similar with your Malla....s
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Hope so. Could be an interesting line of investigation.
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Edward Mallalieu Brooke Taylor's father was Herbert Brooke Taylor who, in 1884, married Mary Tait Mallalieu. I have them briefly written up in my Hoyle family account. (Herbert was a witness at the marraige of one Fretwell William Hoyle).
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Hi Leonie
Thanks for that info, its been an interesting and sometimes hard line to follow with the Mallawotever name, so many variations.
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I saw football mentioned in the opening post but no mention of cricket.
Two Brooke-Taylors played for Derbyshire-
D.C.B-T 1947-9 http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/10321.html
G.P.B-T 1920 http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/10322.html