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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: nanny jan on Wednesday 10 September 08 16:09 BST (UK)

Title: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: nanny jan on Wednesday 10 September 08 16:09 BST (UK)
Ready.......Steady..........Ainsley!

**(Not repeated tomorrow BBC2 7.00pm........Paralympic Games instead)**


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: BBC TV WDYTYA Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: mshrmh on Wednesday 10 September 08 16:59 BST (UK)
For anyone that's missed some of the earlier ones there's signed repeats in the early hours - next one Tuesday 16 September 1.20am BBC1 Jerry Springer.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Windsor87 on Wednesday 10 September 08 21:50 BST (UK)
I may not have been paying enough attention, but why was Catherine a Smith? ???
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kerryb on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:02 BST (UK)
Ditto Windsor, I have been wondering that too???

Kerry
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:06 BST (UK)
I may not have been paying enough attention, but why was Catherine a Smith? ???

Obvious - her dad was a Briggs and her mum a Davy!

Seriously, I haven't a clue.  Perhaps she wasn't given her father's surname because of the circumstances of her conception.  And perhaps she wasn't given her mother's name because... her mother shared the name with the slaveowner??? Maybe they just came up with Smith as a standard surname for the issue of the slaves on the estate.

Hope someone can come up with a better explanation!

Anna
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: meles on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:09 BST (UK)
I found it one of the most touching of the series. I don't like the man, much, but I felt for him when he discovered his ggg grandfather was a white slave owner.

meles
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:16 BST (UK)
I may not have been paying enough attention, but why was Catherine a Smith? ???

I was wondering that too - I presumed I missed something

I thought that most slave children ended up with the surname of the Plantation Owner...



Shane
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: cuthie on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:21 BST (UK)
I've only ever seen Ainsley Harriot in the Ready Steady Cook series and always found him cheerful and full of life.  I think he probably expected to find slaves in his ancestry, but the white slave owner really seemed to shock him.

I too wondered about Catherine being a Smith.  Perhaps the name was just used because it is a very popular surname.

Cuthie
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nick29 on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:22 BST (UK)
I may not have been paying enough attention, but why was Catherine a Smith? ???

Obvious - her dad was a Briggs and her mum a Davy!

Seriously, I haven't a clue.  Perhaps she wasn't given her father's surname because of the circumstances of her conception.  And perhaps she wasn't given her mother's name because... her mother shared the name with the slaveowner??? Maybe they just came up with Smith as a standard surname for the issue of the slaves on the estate.

Hope someone can come up with a better explanation!

Anna

Apprarently it was quite routine in those days for the children born in slavery to take the slave owner's surname, whether he was the father or not.  Since the father of Catherine Smith was merely a hireling "working on bonus", then it's quite possible the surname was plucked out of the air to ensure Mr Briggs' anonymity as the father.

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: East London on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:24 BST (UK)
was this like Mandingo?
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: BuddysMummy on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:28 BST (UK)
Wasn't this a fascinating episode. So much better than last week's. No histrionics, no fake emotion.

What a lot of surprises though: slave; policeman, prostitute and slave owner.

I was very disappointed though, that we weren't able to find out what made the GGGgrandfather turn from the slave owner background to presumably marrying Priscilla (who seemed to have no surname).

Any ideas, or do you think he was using his "slave-owner's rights"?
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:37 BST (UK)
A very interesting program

Had to laugh though that the IGI entry was a submitted one and the mothers name was different when they checked the parish register  ;D

Willow x
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kooky on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:37 BST (UK)
The 'surprises' were interesting, and his reactions.
Kooky
Excuse my ignorance - what is/was Mandingo?
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: East London on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:40 BST (UK)
slave story fiction from fact.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Rewcastle on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:43 BST (UK)
Linky.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/new-stories/ainsley-harriott/how-we-did-it_1.shtml


Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kizmiaz on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:45 BST (UK)
As it says on the BBC WDYTYA site, history is not black and white for Ainsley Harriott.

Even more intriguing, and something which the programme makers missed a trick on, is the fact that, according to a book called Archibald Monteith, Ainsley's ggg-grandfather George David Harriott (the one who sold slaves to the 4 year old James) was NOT white, but was listed as "Mestize", or mixed race, and married a white woman named Mary Goodfellow in 1800. Their marriage was recorded in the "White" section of the parish record, and their children were therefore classed as white.

Now, that is something I find highly interesting!

(For more info, do a Google search on "George David Harriott" and its the second link. Can't post a direct link here to Google books)

Glen
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nick29 on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:49 BST (UK)
I was a little surprised that Mr Harriott was ignorant of the fact that the genes of so many of the slave families were mixed with the genes of the white slave owners.  It was only a matter of time before he found a white person in there somewhere, and quite likely that the person would be on the owning side.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Aulus on Wednesday 10 September 08 22:50 BST (UK)
An excellent programme I thought.

No tears, but not lacking in emotion - he was certainly taken on a rollercoaster journey.

No deus ex machina telephone calls.

And they were wearing white gloves handling the original records too, for once!

Interesting to see the IGI used and even more so that it was a submitted record and still more that it was accurate.

I got the impression that Ainsley was genuinely interested and was genuinely discovering things he didn't know (unlike some previous episodes in this series).

What spectacular scenery in Jamaica too!

You have to wonder about that Briggs character - fathering children knowing they would be slaves.  <shudder>
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Hackstaple on Wednesday 10 September 08 23:04 BST (UK)
I think the assumption that the 9 properties in Barbados were the proceeds of prostitution to be a little light on fact.  It would have been possible to find the dates of land registration for all of them - perhaps the policemen did buy some of them. I would have thought that a prostitute would have had difficulty to save so much money especially since their lives were usually short.

I would think that the ancestry of most Jamaicans would be somewhat similar. I did some research recently on faraway St. Helena and found the same sort of story with several races and free/slave liaisons and even marriages.

The legend of an ancestor from India was a bit perplexing. Apparently a ship bearing indentured Indian labourers, the Loch Lomond, arrived from Calcutta in 1874. There was famine in much of India at that time.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: millymcb on Wednesday 10 September 08 23:14 BST (UK)
I've loved all the shows this series....but was a bit disappointed with some of the methodolgy of this one...

I'm a little confused by how they know for sure tht IGI entry is correct.   They found a submitted one but I don't remember them ever saying they were going to try to find the original entry to get a source for it.   (Did I miss something?).

And then they just use the parents names to get thier marriage certificate and carry on up the line.... (Not great technique to be teaching the  viewers at home)

I looked at the WDYTYA website and it said that they couldn't find a baptism entry for Ebenezer - but they knew it was the correct IGI entry because the birth date matched his death certificate.   However..... they didn't know where the IGI submission info came from.   It could have come from the death certificate - so they just cross checked the entry with itself!

Isn't that a classic submitted entry beginner's error?


And then......having found Priscilla - they decide with no evidence that she was probably a prostitute and then broadcast it to the world....   Now, maybe she was - but if she wasn't she isn't going to be too pleased :o :o :o


Milly
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 10 September 08 23:36 BST (UK)
Perhaps the lady who bought the nine houses was a 'Madame' ... and had masses of prostitutes working for her, and took a cut of their earnings ?   She may have bought the houses one by one and used them to house her 'ladies' ...

I enjoyed this programme; dont know the cooking programme but Ainsley seemed a nice enough man, and all the reactions seemed quite genuine, if anything in a TV programme can be called genuine.  I expected a slave background ... remember the very English Moira Stewart programme a few years back ?  She found slavery/slave owning in her ancestry a hard thing to discover too ...

Next week its David Suchet ... and another Jewish search I think; interesting, no doubt, but too many in one series perhaps ??   Time we had a different slant ... maybe colonials ?  Early settlers in the US ??
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Rewcastle on Thursday 11 September 08 00:35 BST (UK)
"Interesting to see the IGI used and even more so that it was a submitted record and still more that it was accurate."

Ebenezer Harriott son of  James Gordon Harriott and Priscilla born on  22nd AUG 1865  of Prospect, Saint Elizabeth Parish, Jamaica, Caribbean

(Thought i spotted this bit on the television).  ???
Source Information:
No source information is available.


Rewcastle.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Cog on Thursday 11 September 08 00:58 BST (UK)
I have watched all episodes since it started and have to say that I have enjoyed all series.  Missed tonights because the footie was on and my hubby would not have it any other way (I have always refused to have a second tv in the house).

I have found this series to have a slightly different feel to it. Starting with the first one, whats her face (totally forgot her name) researching the east end of london, does anyone else think that the whole thing with the sobbing and short breathing was a little bit over acted ? Whole feeling of "whats next" is sort of lost in this series like you almost know whats coming.  Starting to think that WDYTYA is becoming a victim of its own success.  It wont stop me watching it though (unless it becomes riduculously over acted) its amazing how many tips you can come across.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: jmp on Thursday 11 September 08 00:59 BST (UK)
Re Hackstables comment above. None of the land in Barbados was registered at the time. I know this because a friend of mine has lost some deeds to a property there and you have to go to court to get the court to confirm the ownership still. They are only now registering new sales.

this one really confused me, one minute he was shocked he came from a slave background and then he was shocked he came from a slavers background. Cant have it both ways Ainsley. One way or another it shows a shocking lack of knowledge of basic historical facts on his part.

As far as the prostitutes houses and the policeman is concerned one must wonder whether back handers were being given to the policeman to turn a blind eye to the situation on the street. Or am I being too cynical about how the family acquired its "fortune"

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Rewcastle on Thursday 11 September 08 01:13 BST (UK)

Gog. it's on again thursday night 7pm on bbc2. ;)



Rewcastle.
 
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Rewcastle on Thursday 11 September 08 01:17 BST (UK)

Anyone wanting to read a bit more about John Davy and Wear Pen. This website (http://jamaicanfamilysearch.com/Samples2/Heavitree2.htm) has more info.



Rewcastle.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 11 September 08 08:00 BST (UK)
........... And then......having found Priscilla - they decide with no evidence that she was probably a prostitute and then broadcast it to the world....   Now, maybe she was - but if she wasn't she isn't going to be too pleased :o :o :o


Oh, I don't think that's quite fair.   They did say which trades on the island made the most money from the visiting sailors - prostitution, and bars selling rum.  Since most of the bars had a "side trade" of prostitution, it's reasonable to assume that if the lady wasn't a prostitute herself, some of the money would have been the proceeds of prostitution.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kerryb on Thursday 11 September 08 08:21 BST (UK)
Next week its David Suchet ... and another Jewish search I think; interesting, no doubt, but too many in one series perhaps ??   Time we had a different slant ... maybe colonials ?  Early settlers in the US ??
How about one that stays in Britain for a change!  What's wrong with having ancestors from Scotland, England, Ireland or Wales??

Kerry
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Lydart on Thursday 11 September 08 08:26 BST (UK)
Nothing whatsoever !

But I just thought it might be intersting (if they could find someone) whose ancestors went from UK, say, with the Pilgrim Fathers ??

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kerryb on Thursday 11 September 08 08:29 BST (UK)
Oh I agree Lydart, but this current series seems to be somewhat unbalanced in favour of leaving the country to do research.  New researchers might think you always get to go abroad when actually most of the time ancestry never moved much from where you live yourself!

Not that I have got anything against watching celebrities go abroad to sunny climes  ::)

I enjoyed last night's though, Ainsley seems very interested in what he found.

Kerry

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: bearkat on Thursday 11 September 08 08:33 BST (UK)
A fascinating journey.

I would have been great if they could gone full circle & traced his white ancestors back to England (or wherever they came from).
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 11 September 08 08:38 BST (UK)
Nothing whatsoever !

But I just thought it might be intersting (if they could find someone) whose ancestors went from UK, say, with the Pilgrim Fathers ??



I think your wish may be answered when they broadcast the programme on Jodie Kidd.  Not quite Pilgrim Fathers, but close, I gather.  I'll be interested in this one, because one branch of my family were tobacco plantation owners in the New World in the 1600's (and yes, I'm aware of the connections between tobacco and slave traders !)  :)
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: thornhill121 on Thursday 11 September 08 08:39 BST (UK)
I liked the fact that Ainsley seemed genuinly interested in what he was seeing, making notes etc like I do, rather than relying on the researchers remembering what has been said.
I don't usually like him but I thought that he came across as genuine, no tears but anger which we don't see often.

I don't think Ainsley was any more ignorant to recent history than Jerry Springer.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: silvery on Thursday 11 September 08 09:04 BST (UK)
And both of them should have known more!   Both the Jewish Holocaust and Slavery were (and are) HUGE issues, which are constantly debated, both in GB and the USA.

It was a point I made about the Jerry Springer show, that he seemed to know very little of the holocaust, and similarly Ainsley Harriott appeared to know very little about slavery.  Both of which I find hard to believe/
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Hasler on Thursday 11 September 08 09:46 BST (UK)

I would have liked to find out where in England the Harriots came from, and seen him visit there too

he could of gone full circle  :(
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kizmiaz on Thursday 11 September 08 09:57 BST (UK)
, and similarly Ainsley Harriott appeared to know very little about slavery. 


Sorry, but at what point did he appear to know very little about slavery?

He knew the year of abolition, which I can guarantee not many on this board would know. He only seemed to be unaware of the detail of events relating to his family past.

I had never heard of the Hut Tax War. I never knew that slave owners sold slaves to their 4 year old children.

Ainsley was born in England, and went through the English school system which has not placed a great emphasis on world history for many years. When I went through school just a few years after he would have, there was no teaching of WW1, WW2, the Slave Trade, the Holocaust or any major world events. These were just not included in the curriculum.

How many of us know the exact details about events in our own nations history? How many could even name the monarch who was sitting on the throne at the turn of the 19th century without looking it up?

Everyone knows about the generalities of the Holocaust or the Slave trade, but very few could give detailed accounts of the actualities. Neither celebrity showed any signs of being unaware of these monumental periods of history in any way, but neither had any facts about their own families parts in these events.

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Aulus on Thursday 11 September 08 10:51 BST (UK)

 Ainsley Harriott appeared to know very little about slavery. 


I just watched it again and that's not the impression I got.

He'd have to be spectacularly ignorant not to know how and why Black Africans ended up in the Caribbean.

He was extremely angry when faced with a memorial to the man who held his ancestors; was very surprised to find that another ancestor was free-born; and was again angry when it was revealed that his surname comes from a slave owner.

You can be fully aware of all these things (as with the holocaust) but when you're faced with it, face-to-face, in your own ancestry, that's a different thing.  On a different scale, I know full well that TB was a major killer in the late 19th century, but it doesn't make it any more comfortable when I find a great-in-whatever- degree uncle or aunt dies of TB/pthisis in infancy.  Similarly, I know that in the 20th century, meningitis was a killer, but found myself strangely moved when looking up a death for another rootschatter in one of the county forums - born Q2, died Q4 of the same year - and that was something totally unrelated.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 11 September 08 11:02 BST (UK)
I didn't think Ainsley, or Jerry Springer for that matter, appeared ignorant - as has been said above it's not the fact of but the details of their own kin's involvement that comes a surprise and in some cases a shock.

Kizmiaz, this did surprise me:
When I went through school just a few years after he would have, there was no teaching of WW1, WW2, the Slave Trade, the Holocaust or any major world events. These were just not included in the curriculum.

You and I are the same age, and all of these things (plus all sorts of other stuff between 410AD and 1945) were covered in my history education up to leaving school.  We went on a trip to Regensburg concentration camp as part of the Holocaust/WWII curriculum.  I always used to complain that we didn't learn about post-1945 stuff but was told it was too recent to get a historical perspective - looking back I think it's a miracle they got through what they did!  I was lucky enough to have very inspiring history teachers.

Enough about me! ;)

Anna
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kizmiaz on Thursday 11 September 08 11:17 BST (UK)
You and I are the same age, and all of these things (plus all sorts of other stuff between 410AD and 1945) were covered in my history education up to leaving school.  

The history teaching at my school was mostly centred on 18th and 19th century English (not even British!) agricultural history, and included a whole term on the Corn Laws! The only time WW2 was taught was as an option in the 5th year, by which time most pupils had given up on the excrutiatingly boring subject.

But since starting my tree, I am fascinated by history and can't read enough on it.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: silvery on Thursday 11 September 08 11:19 BST (UK)
Yes, you could both be right.  And it's fair comment.

  It's the relating of it to your own families.     Both Jerry and Ainsley appeared deeply moved, and I don't think that appeared false.

My history was all about the industrial revolution, which has much more relevance to me now than it did then.  And also the Napoleonic wars which still bore me to tears.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Hackstaple on Thursday 11 September 08 11:28 BST (UK)
Kizmiaz

I think that every family history researcher should read a bit of history even if was badly taught at school. How can we understand who we are if we have no idea of what shaped our nation?

I attended school long ago - they did not teach us about the holocaust as it happened whilst I was at school.  But we certainly learned about the slave trade with some discussion of its evils, why and how it arose and who put an end to it - Great Britain and its Navy. Keeping of slaves was common in every culture, in every country over thousands of years. It still occurs today under a mask in China and Saudi Arabia, for example as well as in many West African countries who enslave children for field labour.

Imperialism was practiced by all who had the power and still is even if under different guises.

I am a little disturbed, as are others here, about trends in this series. With the exception of Patsy Kensit we  have so far had people totally overcome by the well-known indignities or horrors that their distant ancestors suffered - or might have suffered had things been different.  Even Patsy seemed to be unaware that London was mostly inhabited by the poor who were often engaged in criminality. David Suchet may yet again take us to the ghettoes and persecutions in Latvia and other parts of Eastern Europe.

I will agree that for family history researchers people who have all their roots in the British Isles are more fascinating but we do not make up nearly all of the Beeb's targeted viewers.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Aulus on Thursday 11 September 08 12:27 BST (UK)
I will agree that for family history researchers people who have all their roots in the British Isles are more fascinating but we do not make up nearly all of the Beeb's targeted viewers.

I think part of it is that the foreign (hi)stories maybe make better telly.

But your point made me wonder, how representative the current series is of the population (which is, I admit, probably not the same as the Beeb's targeted viewers).   Fortunately summaries of the 2001 census are readily available.  I reproduce the following without comment (other than that Scotland is obviously a different country as far as the census is concerned).

2001 Census (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/commentaries/ethnicity.asp)

7.9% of the population belonged to a minority ethnic group.  See this table (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=273)

Quote

In England, 3.1 per cent of the population state their religion as Muslim (0.7 per cent in Wales), making this the most common religion after Christianity.

For other religions, 1.1 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Hindu, 0.7 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Sikh, 0.5 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Jewish and 0.3 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Buddhist.

At the time the Census was carried out, there was an internet campaign that encouraged people to answer the religion question "Jedi Knight". The number of people who stated Jedi was 390,000 (0.7 per cent of the population).

Of people living in England, 87.4 per cent gave their country of birth as England and a further 3.2 per cent of the population came from other parts of the UK.
Nearly 97 per cent of the population of Wales were born in the UK, including 75 per cent born in Wales and 20 per cent born in England.

My history education at school concentrated on the Roman period! Next in "importance" (to the teachers presumably) was the period between the Norman invasion and the death of Elizabeth I (but with big gaps here and there).  I remember doing something about the political history of Europe in the run up to WW1 (but not WW2) and the colonial history of Africa up to the Rhodesian UDI.  My O level history was 50:50 Roman Britain and the history of buildings in Britain.  My A Level history was entirely Roman Britain.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: larkspur on Thursday 11 September 08 13:52 BST (UK)
My daughter aged 10(year 6) came home from school on Friday and her history topic this term is.....wait for it......JOHN LENNON. My other daughter aged  13( year 9)   is to study Victorian Murders. Enough said I think!!
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Hasler on Thursday 11 September 08 16:20 BST (UK)
Ainsley, looked shocked about his white ancestor, but seeing the  photo of Ebenezer i thought he looked mixed race before they even told us or Ainsley,

Did anyone else think this ?
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 September 08 17:02 BST (UK)

I did wonder about Ebenezer but thought it might be the condition of the old photograph.

Nanny Jan
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: MarkyP on Thursday 11 September 08 20:00 BST (UK)
Ainsley Harriott did seemed genuinely shocked at some of his discoveries, but I don't believe he showed any ignorance of slavery at all! He was just unaware of the deeper social aspects attached to slavery and the West Indies, not really surprising as he's British.  :)

I've enjoyed every episode so far, particularly Boris Johnson's. I think a lot of us have got some sort of connection to other countries in our family tree so it's very interesting to see how other countries operate. Obviously all we're going to get is mostly the emotion of the celebrity involved because that's what makes good television, and it's up to us as to whether we believe that emotion is genuine, I tend to think myself disingenuous if I don't believe it!  :(

Have to say I was glad they taught WW2 for history, something I enjoyed learning about as a teenager, as I managed to get my history O-Level with no revision at all!  ;D

And something I learned from the Ainsley program? That Barbados is 1000 miles from Jamaica, I had know idea it was so far, I always imagined the West Indies to all be quite close together.  :-[
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: cuthie on Thursday 11 September 08 20:14 BST (UK)
Yes, Hasler I thought this too and said to my OH he looked more white than black.  Cuthie
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: ninkynoo on Thursday 11 September 08 20:18 BST (UK)
Ditto ,I too thought it may have been the fact it was a very old tinted picture.
Lin
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: pancho on Thursday 11 September 08 20:33 BST (UK)
I have a great Idea maybe the makers of the programme could do my family tree free of charge as i have to keep my money for keeping warm this winter I bet my tree would be just as interesting as
any celebrity as Ive already uncovered a couple of unusual events so far from my Irish ,English,Scots,
roots so VOTE FOR ME :)
Oh and yeah the photo of Ebenezer did show a kind of mixed race actually he looked more white if
anything .
anyway another good programme
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: liverpool lass on Thursday 11 September 08 20:40 BST (UK)
LOL Larkspur!! ;D ;D My sister was doing some supply teaching in the years leading up to her retirement and was asked to take a History class the next day. The topic..... John Lennon! She nearly died as she had been a contemporary of the famous Beatles and knew them all! Probably why she decided to retire but you can guess that she really loved teaching this topic  ;D
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: madfan on Thursday 11 September 08 20:57 BST (UK)
And something I learned from the Ainsley program? That Barbados is 1000 miles from Jamaica, I had know idea it was so far, I always imagined the West Indies to all be quite close together.  :-[

Your not the only one!  :-[
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nick29 on Friday 12 September 08 12:48 BST (UK)
, and similarly Ainsley Harriott appeared to know very little about slavery. 


Sorry, but at what point did he appear to know very little about slavery?


The point where he appeared to be in total shock, when he found out that he was related to a slave owner.  I am neither well schooled in black history nor black myself, but I was aware of that fact.  Many black people of Caribbean descent have blue or green eyes - surely Mr Harriott didn't assume that all these people were products of mixed marriages from the last 50 years ?  Of course, when I used the word "ignorant", this was intended in the naive sort of way, and not casting any aspersions on his education.

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: kizmiaz on Friday 12 September 08 12:55 BST (UK)

, and similarly Ainsley Harriott appeared to know very little about slavery. 


Sorry, but at what point did he appear to know very little about slavery?


The point where he appeared to be in total shock, when he found out that he was related to a slave owner.  I am neither well schooled in black history nor black myself, but I was aware of that fact. 


You were aware of the fact that Ainsley Harriott was related to a Slave Owner? Your vast knowledge about these celebrities knows no bounds!
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nick29 on Friday 12 September 08 13:14 BST (UK)
You were aware of the fact that Ainsley Harriott was related to a Slave Owner? Your vast knowledge about these celebrities knows no bounds!

DNA testing on people from the Caribbean showed a lage percentage of "Mulatto" or mixed race people, which showed that sexual abuse was rife in slave trading.  And it wasn't just in the Caribbean - the same pattern has shown up wherever slaves were traded.   When Mr Hariott started his search, it was inevitable that he would eventually find European white blood, and fairly certain that the blood line would be of his family's enslavers.  Pure statistics, that's all. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: willow154 on Friday 12 September 08 13:26 BST (UK)
And, Nick, not just slaves - abuse of power over household servants, too!
 Paulene :)
Lovely cat, by the way.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Grothenwell on Friday 12 September 08 13:57 BST (UK)
Hi,

Another interesting programme, but I do hope that we will have a few more in the next series based solely in Britain.

I think according to the Sunday Post newspaper Ainsley's lineage was followed back as far as Scotland. That wasn't shown for some reason.

Here is an article, which I thought might be of interest, which puts a slightly different angle of thought to Ainsley's
http://www.scotland.org/about/history-tradition-and-roots/features/culture/the-forgotten-diaspora.html
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: silvery on Friday 12 September 08 14:13 BST (UK)
Thankyou for that.  An extremely interesting article.     
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Windsor87 on Friday 12 September 08 15:11 BST (UK)
I think according to the Sunday Post newspaper Ainsley's lineage was followed back as far as Scotland. That wasn't shown for some reason.


If I remember correctly, there was a Forbes connection somewhere in his tree. I'd imagine that came from Scotland at one point. Unfortunately they didn't go that way.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Windsor87 on Friday 12 September 08 16:20 BST (UK)
Incidently (just remembering), one of my distant great Uncles is suppost to have died in Jamaica. Gilbert Alistair Noble, b. 1790.

According to the Family Bible: "Joined the Royal Navy at an Early Age. Believed to have died in Jamaica".
He was allegedly press-ganged.

That is the only involvement my family had in that area of the world (possibly).
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 13 September 08 13:07 BST (UK)


According to my tv guide the programme will be repeated on BBC2 Thursday

18th September 7.00pm;  the paralympics finish on 17th September.


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: muddypuddy1 on Saturday 13 September 08 13:27 BST (UK)
hiya  peeps
 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  can  anyone please  tell me  if  Ainsley  is  being  repeated AGAIN   i HAVE MISSED IT TWICE   ;D ;D ;D all in a  bliming  week  yikes   mmmmmmmmmmmm  i must  have  fell asleep somewhere  along  the  line   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: tempsford on Saturday 13 September 08 13:32 BST (UK)
Hi,
Its repeated on BBC2 on Thursday 18 September at 7pm.

Tempsford.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 13 September 08 13:33 BST (UK)
Just posted the details! It wasn't repeated last week because the paralympics were being shown.


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: muddypuddy1 on Saturday 13 September 08 13:59 BST (UK)
Thankyou   i WILL KEEP AWAKE  hahahaha
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: mazwad on Saturday 13 September 08 17:54 BST (UK)
You could always catch up with bbc i player and its free.  I watch loads of programmes on my pc using this and ITV catch up.  I think the BBC one covers BB2 and BBC3 as well.  You can watch them online without having to download if you do it within 7 days.

They are not normally available until the day after the programme has been shown.

Just checked Ainsley one is on there.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: muddypuddy1 on Saturday 13 September 08 17:55 BST (UK)
thankyou    i have  been  told  theres  a  repeat  next  thurs  18th  at  7pm  bbc2
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: lookingforold on Saturday 13 September 08 17:57 BST (UK)
You could always catch up with bbc i player and its free.  I watch loads of programmes on my pc using this and ITV catch up.  I think the BBC one covers BB2 and BBC3 as well.  You can watch them online without having to download if you do it within 7 days.

They are not normally available until the day after the programme has been shown.

Just checked Ainsley one is on there.

It is free up to a point. Most Internet Providers have a maximum time you can download these progs, and after that, you can be charged over and above your monthly Broadband fee.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: linden on Saturday 13 September 08 19:38 BST (UK)
I thought that the unusual fact was that Ainsley's Harriot ancestor was married to a former slave , making him a legitimate descendant of a  slave owner .
I would like to have heard where John Briggs came from and why .
Was there a baptism for Joan Davy ?
And who was the "Bridget" listed as one of the mothers ?
Linden
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: lookingforold on Saturday 13 September 08 20:19 BST (UK)
I would like to see a series of 'Follow-up' programmes. Many the time it has been shown that there was great wealth within the family many years/generations ago, but all seems to have disapeared.  This time there was the abandoned church. It must belong to someone. Would love to know more about the financial side of the old estates and where the money went.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Lydart on Sunday 14 September 08 14:43 BST (UK)
I watched this at a friends house ... but missed some of it.    (I dont have a TV !)

I've been trying to watch it again on iPlayer ... but every time I try it tells me it doesn't seem to be working.   iPlayer is fine for other stuff, but not for this ... can someone tell me if they can iPlayer Ainsley please ?
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: muddypuddy1 on Sunday 14 September 08 16:03 BST (UK)
HI lYNDART   I FOUND  THAT  THAT  IS  EVERY  "TINNY"  AND  NOT  MUCH  GOOD  ON THE IPLAYER  LOT  OF  INTERFERIENCE

Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Simon G. on Monday 15 September 08 21:55 BST (UK)
I would like to see a series of 'Follow-up' programmes.
I can't help but agree.  Naturally they can't show everything in an hour, but how many times has it been said here that this, that or the other could have been covered in so and so episode?  If they can spend money doing follow ups to those annoying "lets find this person a new house" shows, they can surely follow up on what is one of their most popular prime time shows.

I did especially like this episode, which may have had something to do with Ainsley and his obviously presenting abilities...not a hint of falseness.  It truly felt like we were following his story and feelings.
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Mair on Monday 15 September 08 22:56 BST (UK)
I managed to play catch up last night ! oooh dear so thats only 4 days late..........

on BBC iPlayer and whilst I haven't downloaded it i played it "live" it was Ok as i was watching it for information not on the quality of the picture.  On the picture quality query though it seemed fine at the small screen but go full screen and the picture was in layperson terms "blurry"

However i could see the IGI entry that was submitted clearly enough to spot the name that was kept as the preferred wifes name of priscilla as opposed to Bridget .....or did i miss something else in the blur?

M
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: cheshiremog on Wednesday 17 September 08 00:57 BST (UK)
Next week its David Suchet ... and another Jewish search I think; interesting, no doubt, but too many in one series perhaps ??   Time we had a different slant ... maybe colonials ?  Early settlers in the US ??
How about one that stays in Britain for a change!  What's wrong with having ancestors from Scotland, England, Ireland or Wales??

Kerry

And why do people have to be celebrities- yawn !!!!!!!!!!!!
What about all the fascinating trees of the common people
Why not drop Big Brother and get on with the Real Thing
Local Trees for Local People


Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: cheshiremog on Wednesday 17 September 08 01:10 BST (UK)
You and I are the same age, and all of these things (plus all sorts of other stuff between 410AD and 1945) were covered in my history education up to leaving school.  

The history teaching at my school was mostly centred on 18th and 19th century English (not even British!) agricultural history, and included a whole term on the Corn Laws! The only time WW2 was taught was as an option in the 5th year, by which time most pupils had given up on the excrutiatingly boring subject.

But since starting my tree, I am fascinated by history and can't read enough on it.

Slightly off subject here - but YES - history at school for me was the Tudors and then the CORN LAWS - and I love history - I just left school and came back to history later - the CORN LAWS were absolute torture - how could any idiot think that would be of interest to teenagers?  My mother taught me about WW2 - and colour prejudice and Martin Luther King - and family values - she did a better job than any history educator I know or am every likely to meet!
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Lydart on Wednesday 17 September 08 10:11 BST (UK)
The corn laws DO have relevance to those of us with ag. lab's ...


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRcorn.htm


... along with the changes brought into agriculture by the acts of the Tolpuddle Martyrs ...

... but this has nothing to do with Ainsley !


Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: Nutty1966 on Wednesday 17 September 08 10:43 BST (UK)
I have recorded all episodes onto dvd if anybody would like a copy, that way, if you do not have a TV you could watch it on your pc/laptop


Jane
Title: Re: BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 5 Episode #5: Ainsley Harriott
Post by: stonechat on Wednesday 24 September 08 22:25 BST (UK)
HI

Just got around to watching this tonight on iPlayer

I thought Ainsley's story was well told, and it must indeed be very difficult to come to terms with being on both sides of the slave owning divide.

Bob