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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: moe1939 on Tuesday 09 September 08 18:19 BST (UK)
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John Ashton b 1848 Heaton Norris maried to Elizabeth Nuttall b 1848.
John's father on marriage certificate in Heywood Lancashire is John b 1817.
I am looking for confirmation on John Ashton 1848 parents being
John Ashton 1817 and Anne Bower 1815.
Thanks for any help ahead of time ......Moe
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Hello Moe
On the IGI there is a John ASHTON marrying an Ann BOWER at the Cathedral 25 October 1847 .
Eric
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Hi Moe,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Not sure when your John married but could this be his family?
1871 in Heaton Norris
RG10 / 3657 / 95 / 41
John Ashton head age 54 b New Mill, Derbyshire
Ann wife age 56 b Heaton Norris
John son age 23 b Heaton Norris occ house joiner
Ann dau age 21 b Heaton Norris
William son age 19 b Heaton Norris occ joiner
Frederick son age 17 b Heaton Norris occ book keeper cotton ? merchant
Alfred son age 15 b Levenshulme Lancs occ book keeper ship merchant
Edmund son age 13 b Levenshulme, Lancs
Sue :)
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Thanks HM ....I do have that date but I believe there are 4 John Ashtons b 1848 in Stockport/ Heaton Norris etc. area . I was in Stockport last May but the Monday I had free was the bank holiday so I was unable to go to the library. Have a good day ...Moe
Hello Moe
On the IGI there is a John ASHTON marrying an Ann BOWER at the Cathedral 25 October 1847 .
Eric
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Hi Sue,
You are correct they are the family I have listed, however my understanding the 1871 census was April 2nd 1871 this shows .....John son age 23 (1848) born Heaton Norris res. Travis Brow occ house joiner. Six days later the 8th April 1871 John marries Elizabeth Nuttall at St Lukes, Heywood, Lancashire age 23 born 1848 address Rochdale Road Heywood occ Cotton Oper. father's name John Ashton occ Pipe Maker. From their marriage certificate.
So I am not too sure if he is the right John Ashton from Stockport there are 4 or 5 born 1848 plus 1847 to 1849 .
Have a good day ... Moe
Hi Moe,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Not sure when your John married but could this be his family?
1871 in Heaton Norris
RG10 / 3657 / 95 / 41
John Ashton head age 54 b New Mill, Derbyshire
Ann wife age 56 b Heaton Norris
John son age 23 b Heaton Norris occ house joiner
Ann dau age 21 b Heaton Norris
William son age 19 b Heaton Norris occ joiner
Frederick son age 17 b Heaton Norris occ book keeper cotton ? merchant
Alfred son age 15 b Levenshulme Lancs occ book keeper ship merchant
Edmund son age 13 b Levenshulme, Lancs
Sue :)
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John Ashton1817 and Ann Bower 1815 were not parents of John Ashton 1848 who was married to Elizabeth Nuttall and he was not from Heaton Norris.
I have now John Ashton 1848 (or 1847 depending on birth to census date). Married Elizabeth Nuttall 8th April 1871 both shown as 23 on marriage certificate at St Lukes Heywood his father name is John, Pipe Maker her mother Alice Nuttall spinster.
John 1848 children all born in Heywood, Robert 1866, William 1871,Mary Alice 1873, Joseph Thomas 1875, John Ashton 1879, James Ashton 1880.
Any help on John 1848 or any of his children would be appreciated...Have a nice day Moe.
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see also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=328932.new#n
Hi Moe,
it's best to cros reference the postings just so that there is no duplication of information - as I said on the other post, I have the family in 1891 but not 1881 yet. There is no Robert in 1891 - you have him born 1866 - but they didn't marry until 1871 - is that right?
best wishes
heywood
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Well I think I have them now - but still a bit confusing
1881 RG11; Piece: 3854; Folio: 70; Page: 23
Elizabeth as Betty - children the same as 1891 but with Robert 15 yrs and young James - who I assume dies before 1891?
The places of birth are also swapped with Betty- Stockport and John-Heywood
John is also 31 yrs b abt 1850.
**also posted on other
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Robert seems to be Elizabeth's child - He is Robert S Nuttall on 1871 and Robert S Nutter lodger in 1901 with Elizabeth and sons.
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sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.
1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.
1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.
There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood
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sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.
:)
1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.
1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.
There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood
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How my last post got posted I will never know. ???
Hi Heywood thanks for your interest,
I am going to post what is on John and Elizabeth's wedding cert.
#377 April 8th 1871,
John Ashton, age 23, Bachelor, Cotton Operator, residence 11 Rochdale Road, Heywood, father John Ashton, Pipe Maker.
Elizabeth Nuttall, age 23, Spinster, Rover, residence 96 Back of York Street, Heywood,
father Alice Nuttall Spinster. (no father listed)
Wedding at St Lukes Church, Heywood, in the presence of John G. French and John Spencer after banns by T. Ramsbotham.
I believe the 1871 census was on april 2nd 6days before the wedding so they were born in 1848 or if their birthdays were after the wedding 1847.
My grandfather William Ashton 1871 (John's son) 43 Peel Lane Heywood married Sabina McManus Dec. 18th 1897. It looks like they are showing John the father as deceased but listed as a Green Grocer as profession.
William Ashton birth certificate born 9th August 1871, 7 Bottom of Brow Heywood,
father John Ashton Cotton Operator mother Elizabeth formerly Nuttall .
Registered 11 august 1871 Bury
Hope this may help and again thanks for the effort Heywood.
I believe Robert was eliz. son Elizabeth' mother was Alice Nuttall 1828?
Have a good day ....Moe
sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.
1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.
1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.
There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood
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Never thought about the cross reference thanks Moe
see also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=328932.new#n
Hi Moe,
it's best to cros reference the postings just so that there is no duplication of information - as I said on the other post, I have the family in 1891 but not 1881 yet. There is no Robert in 1891 - you have him born 1866 - but they didn't marry until 1871 - is that right?
best wishes
heywood
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Morning Heywood .
The 1861 pupil I am sure he is tied into the John and Jane tree.
I have in 1861 census John 12 b 1849 father John b 1822 Pendleton, mother Elizabeth
b 1831 Pendleton.
I seem to remember my aunt doing some foot slogging searches back in the 1960/70s
going on weekend trips to the Whalley area which is the same area as Pendleton. I never did get a copy of what she found.
Have a good day ...Moe
PS The switch of birthplaces for John and Eliz(betty) 1881 is because of a writing error by not filling slot on the same line he showed nothing for John and Stockport next down for Eliz., thats my guess anyway.
sorry Moe, but looking at 1851 -1871 - no real clues for John Ashtons born Stockport 1848 +/- 2 yrs with father John other than the one already discounted. He is married to Jane in 1881.
1861 has one as a pupil in Heaton Norris but it doesn't state what kind of school it is. It seems to be in an affluent area.
1871 has two Johns with fathers John but both these seem to be accounted for elsewhere in 1881.
There are odd ones from time to time but then they can't be tracked later - quite frustrating.
Sorry! As I said earlier- where was he living at time of marriage and witnesses- these may be of some help
best wishes
heywood
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I'll post what I have found and we can see what is relevant etc ;)
1871 RG10; Piece: 3950; Folio: 68; Page: 15
6 Brow Bottom Heywood
Alice Spencer widow 51 yrs laundress b Bury
Elizabeth Nuttall daur 22 yrs cotton mill operative b Walmsley
Hannah Spencer daur 20 yrs ditto b Heywood
Rachel daur 19 yrs ditto b heywood
Thos son 16 yrs ditto b heywood
Willm son 12 yrs ditto b heywood
Robt S Nuttall grandson 4 yrs b heywood
so just a few days earlier than marriage- Elizabeth has a different address but this fits with birth certificate of William.
Perhaps too the witness John Spencer is a member of this family. Found them on 1861 - yes he is.
there is a John Geo French 18 rys b Norwich and boarding in Heywood- other witness? Nothing in census entry gives any clues.
I have found Back York Street but what may be the census page with 96 on has been copied with the house numbers missing :(
After a lot (and what a lot) of searching - I have found 11 Rochdale Road in 1871- Heywood District 10 - will try to get the reference no in a minute
Jane Fenton head widow 63 yrs cotton weaver b Lancs Holcombe
David Fenton unmarried 20 yrs unemployed b Heywood
John Silker :-\ boarder unmarried 22 yrs cotton blower b Cheshire Stockport
(the plot thickens ;))
here is the reference 1871 RG10; Piece: 3951; Folio: 85; Page: 21 transcribed as Silker.
well- we will have to look into that!
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Now John born Pendleton is not married in 1851 when young John is born.
1851 HO107; Piece: 2157; Folio: 176; Page: 34
He is the only one in his family born Pendleton which may be Pendleton Salford as opposed to Pendleton Whalley.
1861 RG9; Piece: 2569; Folio: 16; Page: 26
is odd in that if the John of 1851 is this one- then where do Isabella aged 14 yrs and John aged 12 yr fit it.
Just found this family in 1871 as Aston - with John aged 20 yrs so not him :'(
1871 RG10; Piece: 3664; Folio: 15; Page: 23
back later
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Hi Heywood ,
Thank you for the information I will compare with what I have sorry to hear about your lost.
Regards Moe
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Yes I was looking at the 1871 census Spencer/Nuttall line the 1861 census shows both Alice and Elizabeth as Spencers The 1851 census shows Alice Spencer but Betty(Elizabeth) as Nuttall . I havn't found a link for 1841 census.
If anyone has information on the Nuttall/Spencer connection please let me know.
There are two other 1871 census that threw a curve when I first saw them,
1871 RG10 Piece 4135 Folio 90 Page 19 Elizabeth born in Orton Yorkshire
1871 RG10 Piece 3959 Folio 35 Page 64 Elizabeth born in Walmesley as per your 1871 census but tied in with a Nabb family.
John Geo French was listed as the other witness at the wedding, with him born in Norwich is interesting because I remember my aunt mentioning that area about some connection.
Now this John Silker b Stockport boarding at the Fentons at 11 Rochdale Road the same time as John Ashton b Stockport , to me I think it is John Ashton I was not able to find any John Silker born in Stockport maybe someone can help me on this.
You all have a good day...Moe
I'll post what I have found and we can see what is relevant etc ;)
1871 RG10; Piece: 3950; Folio: 68; Page: 15
6 Brow Bottom Heywood
Alice Spencer widow 51 yrs laundress b Bury
Elizabeth Nuttall daur 22 yrs cotton mill operative b Walmsley
Hannah Spencer daur 20 yrs ditto b Heywood
Rachel daur 19 yrs ditto b heywood
Thos son 16 yrs ditto b heywood
Willm son 12 yrs ditto b heywood
Robt S Nuttall grandson 4 yrs b heywood
so just a few days earlier than marriage- Elizabeth has a different address but this fits with birth certificate of William.
Perhaps too the witness John Spencer is a member of this family. Found them on 1861 - yes he is.
there is a John Geo French 18 rys b Norwich and boarding in Heywood- other witness? Nothing in census entry gives any clues.
I have found Back York Street but what may be the census page with 96 on has been copied with the house numbers missing :(
After a lot (and what a lot) of searching - I have found 11 Rochdale Road in 1871- Heywood District 10 - will try to get the reference no in a minute
Jane Fenton head widow 63 yrs cotton weaver b Lancs Holcombe
David Fenton unmarried 20 yrs unemployed b Heywood
John Silker :-\ boarder unmarried 22 yrs cotton blower b Cheshire Stockport
(the plot thickens ;))
here is the reference 1871 RG10; Piece: 3951; Folio: 85; Page: 21 transcribed as Silker.
well- we will have to look into that!
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There is a possible marriage for Alice Nuttall and John Spencer in 1850.
1841 - difficult as you have no real pointers- she gives various districts of Bury as her birthplace I think but if you thought it was her,the marriage certificate would help perhaps.
1871
Elizabeth born Yorkshire - Elizabeth Spencer is the married daughter of John and Ann Nuttall and Alice is a boarder so I don't think that is her. Intreseting though about the names.
The other Elizabeth is also a married daughter of the Nabb family- her husband is with her so again I doubt that it is her.
As for John Silker- I agree it must be him but we will never know perhaps why he is listed as that name!
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Morning Heywood ,
The same conclusion I came to and as you said it is interesting how 3 1871 census have basically the same names .
Is Walmesley they refer to part of Bury or misspelled part of Bolton I can't find anything on the map at Bury.
It is possable that even a neighbour could have given the name John Silker with the silker referring to his work eg: John the silker as you say we will never know.
If you come across the name of Alice's mother married to John Nuttall 1790 or even stumble on the John Ashton 1848 (he could be born 1847
if the birth was after the census date) there is one i am looking into and his father John please let me know.
Thank you for your input it has cleared up some issues for me.
Have a good day ... Moe
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Hi again,
if you 'google map' Bury you can see Walmesley just north of Bury- on the way to Ramsbottom where Elizabeth says she is from on one census.
Elton where I think Alice says she is from on at least one is on the Bolton Road.
Have I missed that Alice's dad is John Nuttall b 1790?
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I have John Nuttall b 1790 from the 1871 census listing him as 81 yrs old. P 3950 f 68 Pg 15
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Oops sorry! I must have missed him off before and never thought about him but irritatingly he only turns up in 1871 in a general search using Manchester as place of birth :(
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can't see anything that fits.
I was going to ask where you are based and then recalled Canada? Then saw your little flag is that so?
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I am in Nova Scotia Canada but was born in Heywood Lancs. My mother's side is the name Heap and I was able to get alot from her side before she died at 99 yrs old last Dec. but not too much from Ashton side.
I was in Stockport the end April 2008 and the Monday in May was to be used for the Stockport Library but it was a bank holiday so I missed out when I went to Sussex to bury my mother on Tuesday.
I did meet a cousin for the first time and her husband she was a Heap from Bolton my ggGF and hers were brothers or something like that.
The wife and I are hoping to get over again next spring
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I'll try to go to Bury library and look for the Alice Nuttall/ John Spencer marriage to see if there is anything to help there.
My grandfather was born Heywood and my daughter's famiy are Heap - but not from there!
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My Heap family are from Bolton and moved to Heywood in 1850
I am back as far as 1700 +/-
I'll try to go to Bury library and look for the Alice Nuttall/ John Spencer marriage to see if there is anything to help there.
My grandfather was born Heywood and my daughter's famiy are Heap - but not from there!
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After a trip to Ruthin Wales to look into my grandmother's (Jones) side only to find out the offices for the search were closed for renovations the same week I was there I have decided to try the Ashton side again.
Is anyone able to check to see if John Ashton b 1848 has the father named John and the mother surname of the following.
Ashton John Heaton Norris Stockport ... Brelford HEA/14/74
" " " " " ...Graham HEA/13/27
" " " " " ...Jacob HEA/13/75
Have a good day...MOE