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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 13:34 BST (UK)

Title: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 13:34 BST (UK)

Hello to you

Would be most grateful if anyone would be so kind to see if my gt gt gt grandfather's family were in any of the above census of Kilmuir (Isle of Skye).

I've managed to get details of the family in the 1841 census:-

Ronald Macdonald - age 56 Tenant (gt gt grandfather)
Margaret  49 wife
Donald   28 Joiner
Janet 25
Annabella 20
Binny 15
Alex 13
Angus 14
James 9

Any information on Ronald's family would be gratefully received.
Kind regards

Mcvitie


Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 13:50 BST (UK)
Hi McVitie :)



There is a Ronald McDonald (b. North Uist)  and Wife Magaret of the approx correct ages living Kilmuir,  in 1851 with a  daughter Alice, aged 30

If you think if might be them, I'll put up the info.


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 13:57 BST (UK)
Here's the 1851 to see what you think:

Holl, Kilmuir, Skye

Reg Dist 112 ED 2 Page 5

Ronald McDonald, 65, farmer of 35 acres employing 2 servants, b. North Uist
Margret, 63, b. Portree
Alice, 30, b. Kilmuir
Margaret McLeod, grdda,9, b. Kilmuir
William Martin serv, 26, farm srvant, b. Kilmuir
John McQuin, 18, farm servant, b. Kilmuir
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 14:04 BST (UK)
Can't see them in 1861 as yet - nearest is Sleat but that's the complete opposite end of the Island. have you checked for deaths?

Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 14:11 BST (UK)
1861

Donald must be dead:

3 Dilista, Kilmuir
Reg Dist 112 ED 2 Page 8

Margaret MacDonald, 68, farm of 18 acres, b. Portree
Alice, d, 37, gneral servant. b. Kilmuir
Benny, d, 35,  general servant, b.Snizort
Ronald,grds, 9, b. Portree
Mary Gillies, grdd, 5, b. Kilmuir

Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 14:19 BST (UK)
Hello Gadget

Thanks for your 'swift' response.

It's very interesting that Ronald has a farm of 35 acres - on his son Angus's death cert in 1901, it states that his father, Ronald, was a 'Ground Officer' but it didn't say where. Certainly having 35 acres would seem to match the title of a 'GO', but not sure where his other children have got to? Also interesting they are in North Uist, as their son Angus married in Harris, in 1855, which is quite near to NU, so they must have moved from Skye at some point after 1841 census.

Regarding the 1861 census, they seem to have moved back to Skye, and the names shown certainly fits the family, as their 2nd eldest daughter was called 'Binny' in the 1841 census and is now Benny, which seems likely to be her.

Dilista was also the place on the 1841 census - but I can't locate that place on a map?

Thanks for all your help here.

Mcvitie
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 14:23 BST (UK)
Hi McVitie

I mixed up his birth place and residence on the 1851 :-[ . He  was living Kilmuir, Skye and have amended it.

This was a period of clearances and enclosures in many parts of Skye and the rest of the Highlands . Ground Officer might have been either a 'tackman' or even a ghillie.

I think it's the correct family as Alice is on both censuses.

I'll check for a death - hopefully after 1855.


Regards

Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 14:29 BST (UK)
Looks as if Ronald died before 1855. I can't find a death  :(
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 14:36 BST (UK)
Hi  Gadget

Thanks for the clarification - so Ronald was born Kilmuir, Skye, which now at least certainly makes things clearer.

Although Alice doesn't appear in the 1841 census, it's a name that was given to my nan, Alice Mary Alex Maclean born Benbecula 1901, and we could never find out why Alice had been given as her first name - her mother Mary Bell Macdonald was Angus's daughter, and lo and behold Angus had an aunt Alice! Think you may have solved the missing link here Gadget - great stuff.

Thanks also for checking on Ronald's death - pity he wasn't post 1855 but at least his wife Margaret was alive so she should be on Scotlands People...

Many thanks

Mcvitie
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 14:55 BST (UK)
No - Ronald was living Kilmuir Skye in 1851. On that census it says he was born North Uist.

I'll see if I can find something on Alice for you - could she be the Annabella, even  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 15:04 BST (UK)
In 1871, it looks as if Alice might be living in South Uist with a Macmillan family headed by a Malcolm Macmillan. She's down as 'sister'. He's married to a Christina  I'll investigate later as I have to go out now. It looks very strange if it is the correct family.


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 15:07 BST (UK)
My brain's not in gear Gadget! Thanks again for clarifying - he was born a NU man, and moved at some point to Skye - and married a girl from Portree.

Yes indeed, Alice could well have been Annabella - it could be down to what the enumerator heard/interpreted? The 1871 South Uist connection is certainly an interesting route - thanks for searching here.
 
Kind regards
Mcvitie
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 15:13 BST (UK)
Problem solved - I've now checked the image - it was all wrongly indexed  ::) ::) ::)

They are next on the page after the Macmillans and someone has grouped them together!


This is the correct entry:

1871
Griminish, S Uist
118/1 ED 4 page 6

Head of family absent, Joiner and Crofter,
Alex Macdonald, s, 16, joiner's son, b. Harris
Ranald, 13, Joiner's son, b. Harris
Kenneth, 11, Joiner's son, b. South Uist
Donald, 9,Joiner's son, b. S Uist
Margaret, 7, Joiner's daughter, b. S Uist
Mary, 5, Joiner's daughter. b. S Uist
Alice, sister, 49, b. Kilmuir, Skye
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 15:15 BST (UK)
North Uist to Skye is not far - Uig to Lochmaddy only a few hours nowadays - did it myself a while ago  :D
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 16:01 BST (UK)
Think I have the family of the 'absent' head in 1861:

South Uist - Reg District - Benbecula
118 ED 5 Page 11

Angus Macdonald, 32, miller and joiner, b. isle of Skye
Mary, 30, b. Kintail
Ronald, 4,
Kenneth, 2
Mary Ann, 6 months,
Peggy MacIsaac, 20, servant
Alexander Wilson, 14, servant

All b. South Uist unless stated.

This might well be Angus aged 14 on the 1841
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 16:12 BST (UK)
I have a possible birth date for Kenneth, aged 2 in 1861:

IGI (extracted)

Kenneth MacDonald, South Uist. b. 17 May 1859

Parents - Angus MacDonald and Mary Macrae

also Ronald/Ranald, aged 4 - same parents:

Ranald MacDonald, Harris. b. 18 Sept 1856

I'm thinking that Ranald is far more likely than Ronald for your original person.

Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 16:12 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget

Thanks for all your help here - the 1871 Benbecula census is definitely my 2x grandfather Angus, Ronald's son, as Angus was a joiner/carpenter. The children also appear the same as the 1881 census, so everything ties in nicely.

Angus was indeed a miller in Lionacleit, Benbecula, and so the 1861 you kindly found him in is most definitely him, as his wife was Mary Macrae, from Harris.

I have never managed to get across to the Western Isles, but have spent a lot of my summer hols in Ardvasar, Sleat, Skye where my dad was born into the Kennedys there. I must try to get up to Kilmuir though, since it would seem Ronald, the Ground Officer, may have a grave up there, but whether he had a headstone is probably doubtful, but they were in charge of a lot of land so who knows....maybe he was buried in the same graveyard as the famous Flora!

Thanks for helping me piece this all together Gadget - I've learned a great deal in just a matter of a few hours.

Kind regards

Mcvitie



Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 16:18 BST (UK)
 :D

Just found the marriage of Angus to Mary


Benbecula, 12 Dec 1854. it's an IGI submitted entry so will need checking and nothing in the OPRs. Were they Roman Catholic?


Do you need any more info on the family?


Gadget

PS - I was in that part of Skye over Easter - it was very wet - you could see across to Harris very clearly though
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 16:26 BST (UK)
You're in luck  :D

Ranald MacDonald, farmer, died 5 May 1856, Dilista, Kilmuir. Aged 72

Parents - Angus Macdonald and Janet, m.s. Macdonald both Deceased

Cause - palpitations of the heart - 4 weeks

Informant - A MacDonald, son


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Monday 08 September 08 16:31 BST (UK)
I just got your last replies Gadget - funnily enough it actually states on Angus' death cert in 1901, that his father was called 'Ranald' - I agree with you that this is more likely his name, than Ronald.

The marraige of Angus and Mary is a real find - I tried without success. The only reference I could get to it was actually on the birth cert of their daughter Mary Bell in 1866, but this is slightly conflicting to your IGI find in that it says they married on 14th Dec 1855, in Borve, Harris. As to their religion, I always thought they were COS, only because Mary Bell married a Maclean in Benbecula, but it wasn't a catholic one.

And I've just got your last reply - superb Gadget, you found his death cert! This beats the lot, and I can't thank you enough. I'll get on to the SP site without delay!!!

Cheers
Mcvitie



Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 16:36 BST (UK)

The marriage was only a submitted one - it's more likely that the daughter's birth cert was correct.

It could be common law so wouldn't show.  Will have another look.
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 08 September 08 17:55 BST (UK)
Hi again

You're in luck yet again  8)

Alexander Macdonald, son of Angus and Mary,  was b. March 1855. Little Bour (?), Harris. It was an 1855 cert so there is more info.

Marriage info for his parents is 1854, Harris. I still can't see it so it is most likely common law - it was legal though  :)

I'll be in touch.


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Tuesday 09 September 08 11:05 BST (UK)

Wow Gadget, so much luck in 1 day!!

Thanks for the certificate - it certainly helps to back up his parents marriage year. I'm very interested about this maybe being 'common law'  - I've not come across such a situation as yet - most intriguing.

I wonder if the marriage place of 'Little Bour', is 'Borve', as in the birth cert for his other daughter Mary. I'll have a google at Harris maps.

Thanks for your continued help Gadget.

Regards
Mcvite
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 09 September 08 11:49 BST (UK)
Here's a bit about marriages in Scotland:

http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=8397

There are lots of threads on here which mention Scottish marriage forms.


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 09 September 08 11:53 BST (UK)
Just wondering if it could be Na Buirgh on the West side of Harris:

Click here for map (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=104000&y=894240&z=5&sv=104000,894240&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)


Gadget
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Tuesday 09 September 08 13:04 BST (UK)

Thanks for the links Gadget - interesting read too about the marraiges. You may well be right in Little Bour being 'Na Buirgh - does'nt 'Na' mean small/little in Gaelic?

Cheers
McV
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 09 September 08 13:17 BST (UK)
Not sure - I though it meant The.  Beag is small.

Buirgh  would be pronounced something like Bo-ur, though.
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: McVitie on Tuesday 09 September 08 13:32 BST (UK)

Yes you're right Gadget - Beag imeans small in Gaelic - I shall speak to my dad tonight for a translation.

Cheers

McV
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Uistman59 on Sunday 09 February 14 10:53 GMT (UK)
"Na Buirgh" really translates as "The Borves" or "The Burghs, " but Borve (Scottish Gaelic: Na Buirgh) is a village in Harris in the Outer Hebrides, ( Scotland.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borve,_Harris ) so sometimes the translation is not quite literal. I'm not sure about details of Harris geography but there is a Borgh Bheag (Little Borve) and Borgh Mor (Great Borve) there, which I presume are the different parts of the village, which is just north of  Scarista.
Title: Re: 1851/61/71 Inverness census lool up please
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 09 February 14 11:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Uistman  :)

This is a very old post (2008). I think that we identified the location  then:


Just wondering if it could be Na Buirgh on the West side of Harris:

Click here for map (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=104000&y=894240&z=5&sv=104000,894240&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)


Gadget

Glad you confirmed my thoughts, though!


Gadget