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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: Dannemois on Friday 05 September 08 16:49 BST (UK)
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On the 1881 census for Gelligaer [RG11/5307/135/7] Thomas Probert was residing at 12 George Inn Row, Wid, 26, b. Staunton, Herefordshire. Living with him was Catherine Probert, SI, 17, also b. Staunton.
Can someone please help locate them on the 1871 census.
Thanks in advance
Roy
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This looks like them...
1871 Staunton on Wye, Herefordshire
RG 10/2705 folio 64 page 16
William Young, head, 36, farmer 261 acres 3 men 2 boys
Mary do., wife, 30, farmer's wife
Elizabeth Johns, serv, unm, 16, domestic serv
Thomas Probert, serv, unm, 16, farm serv indoor
Thomas Herring, serv, unm, 15, do, Clifford Herefordshire
All born Staunton on Wye (except the last one, as shown)
1871 Staunton on Wye, Herefordshire
RG 10/2705 folio 63 page 14
"The Ridge"
William Probert, head, 50, ag lab, Whitney Herefordshire
Mary do., wife, 41
James do., son, 13, scholar
Katharine do., daur, 7, scholar
Mary A. do., daur, 4, scholar
Charles do., son, 10mo
All recorded as born in Staunton on Wye (except William, as shown)
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Dear Roy
Last night I found a message, (that I think was from you but I can't find it now) that you were intending to write a book about Brithdir. I visited this village on Wednesday trying to track down where my ancestors lived. Everyone was so helpful and whilst bemoaning the fact that there is never a 150 yr old around to discuss the past, I was told that the lady walking down the street was a very sprightly 93 year old lady. It turned out that she knew my Great Grandmother, recalling that she was a large lady who had a little husband and used to carry him home from the pub on occasions! My Great Grandmother was called Martha Jane Miles nee Williams and married Theophilus Miles 26th June 1893. Place of residence for her was Herbert Street (no number) and for him, just Brithdir. However in the 1901 Census they were living at 18 Charles Street (confusingly said Gelligaer) which I discovered was in Brithdir. They had many children and quite a few recorded as being born in Bedwellty, but now I think they probably were born in Brithdir, as the lady I spoke to wasn't born until 1915 and knew the family. I can't seem to trace Martha Jane's Williams' family. Witnesses at the wedding were John Williams (her father) and Selina Williams. I'm being a bit lazy here, but wondered if you had any info on any Williams in the vicinity.
Kind regards
Jill
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Hi Jill
I am indeed researching Brithdir with the aim of writing its history and I am gathering quite a collection of photographs and information. What a shame you didn't make contact before Wednesday I could have met you there and shown you around. I was raised in Brithdir and for half my time there lived at number 4 Charles St, in fact my mother [87] still lives there.
With regards to the village in 1901. There were no fewer than 24 families living in the village with the head of household named Williams and that is not counting lodgers with the name of Williams. There was 5 Williams families residing in Charles Street and I located a John & Seline Williams living at number 9 Charles Street.
9 Charles St
John Williams, HD, M, 38, Coal Hewer, b. Blaenavon, Mon
Seline, wife, M, 38. b. Blaenavon
Seline, daughter, 18. b. Blaenavon
Elizabeth, daug, 15. b. Blaenavon
Edwin, son, 10. b. Blaenavon
Rose, daug, 7. b. Blaenavon
John, son, 3, born Brithdir
I have Theophilus Miles & Martha in number 17 Charles St, they were the second family residing at that address, making 14 souls living in the one house.
Do you have any photographs of Martha Jane & Theophilus? If so send me a copy and I will ask around for.
Hope this has helped
Regards for now
Roy
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Dear Roy
Thank you so much for your information - what a help!
I am planning to visit Wales again soon with my mother - we still have relations in Penrhyceiber and I will definitely take her around Brithdir. I'll let you know dates when we have managed to sort our visit out.
I have pictures of Martha Jane Williams/Miles (she brought my Mum up). So will email them over to you shortly. (I have technological issues to take care of first)!
I think I made a typo .. Martha Jane and Theophilus married in 1893 not 1873. I was so astounded to meet a lady who knew the family I forgot to ask if she knew my Grandmother Letty Miles, and her younger sister Cassie plus Willy John, Trevor, Thomas and Martha.
Keep in touch.
Kind regards
Jill
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This looks like them...
1871 Staunton on Wye, Herefordshire
RG 10/2705 folio 64 page 16
William Young, head, 36, farmer 261 acres 3 men 2 boys
Mary do., wife, 30, farmer's wife
Elizabeth Johns, serv, unm, 16, domestic serv
Thomas Probert, serv, unm, 16, farm serv indoor
Thomas Herring, serv, unm, 15, do, Clifford Herefordshire
All born Staunton on Wye (except the last one, as shown)
1871 Staunton on Wye, Herefordshire
RG 10/2705 folio 63 page 14
"The Ridge"
William Probert, head, 50, ag lab, Whitney Herefordshire
Mary do., wife, 41
James do., son, 13, scholar
Katharine do., daur, 7, scholar
Mary A. do., daur, 4, scholar
Charles do., son, 10mo
All recorded as born in Staunton on Wye (except William, as shown)
A thank you would have been nice >:(
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Hello Dave,
Humble apologises, I can't believe I didn't reply with a thank you, I was working rather late last night and I guess tiredness got the better of me, I would have got around to it though never fear.
Dave, many thanks, it is most appreciated
Roy
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Hi Jill
Glad to be of help and pleased to hear you have a photograph, I can check if she is on any of the group photos I have on file.
Keep in touch
regards
Roy
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Jill
Just had a thought, did you get the name of the 93 year old lady you met?
Roy
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Hi Roy
I didn't quite catch her surname, but it sounded a bit like Mrs Dower?? Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Jill
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Hi Roy
We are having a family meeting very soon, when I should be able to email over some photos.
I spoke to a cousin today and he told me that he thinks Ma Miles aka Mrs Martha Jane Miles nee Williams of Herbert Avenue, Brithdir and 18 Charles Street is a cousin of Jimmy Wilde, the Welsh boxing champion (Nickname Ghost with a Hammer in his Hand)!!. My cousin's brother has a photo of Ma Miles with Jimmy Wilde, apparently, so will investigate. I've read the Wikipedia details about this chap - I'd never heard of him before - but must say Brithdir wasn't mentioned, although he has strong connections with South Wales.
I believe the lady I spoke to in Brithdir was Nellie Dando (I was given a Parish Magazine and she was down as celebrating her 93rd birthday).
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Jill
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Hi Jill
I had guessed it was Nelly Dando when you said it was something like Mrs Dower. Nelly is marvelous for her age, very sprightly, and always on the go. I know her well and I have been to her home quite a few times talking over the old days and the early years in Brithdir. How interesting to find Jimmy Wilde is in your family tree. I,m surprised you have never heard of him, he was one of the best boxers to come out of Wales and the British Isles. His fights are shown on the telly from time to time. If you can get a copy of the photo of Jimmy Wilde and 'Ma Miles' please can you have a copy done for me, it would be an interesting topic for my book 'Jimmy Wildes' relations lived in Brithdir'
Regards
Roy
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My comment relates to Jill Banana's post mentioning her great grandfather Theophilus Miles.
My great grandfather Edmund Miles was an older half brother of Theopilus and I would be most happy to communicate directly and share information. They were both children of Thomas Miles, though by different mothers. My information on Thomas can be seen on my site at http://www.kenscott.com/milesproject/ThomasMilesb1830.html.
I was most interested to hear that Jill has photos of Theophilus' wife -- I have photos of Edmunds wife Lucy -- but none of Edmund or any of his siblings.
One of my documents is a short autobiography written by Edmund's daughter Blodwyn who mentions Theophilus.
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Hi Ken? [Kenscott]
Thanks for getting in touch. As you have most probable gathered from the topic I am researching anyone and anything with a connection to Brithdir. Not knowing where you live and/or your knowledge of the locality I think it would be a good idea to start afresh. Bedwellty and Gelligaer are two ancient parish boundaries with Bedwellty in Monmouthshire and Gelligaer in Glamorganshire.
Early inhabitants of Cwmsyfiog and Brithdir, close neighbours separated only by the width of the Rhymney River which is the ancient boundary between England [Monmouthshire] and Wales [Glamorganshire] shared churches, chapels and schools and found employment in the several local collieries and levels that were in abundance in the New Tredegar basin
I read your site with interest and if I can help you in any way then please ask. I have collected information on Brithdir for the past three years and endeavour to extend my research to Cwmsyfiog and the village of Tirphil being that they are spearted by barely a mile with much shared by these three former mining communities.
Look forward to hearing from you
Regards
Roy
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Roy:
Thanks for the quick reply and offer of help. I wonder if you are publishing any of your findings on a website? Photographs and maps would be lovely to see.
I have not visited Bedwellty . . .in part because I could not find it! My AA road maps did not show it and I did not plan ahead with maps from the web. Looking at a google satellite photo this morning I see a housing complex rising up the hill to the north of the Bedwellty Rd. B4511, to the east of the Cwmsyfiog Rd. (A4049). I am guessing that this might be the old mining community of Bedwellty? But on the top of the hill and south of the B4511 a short distance is some sort of complex partly obscured by the name "Bedwellty". Some clarification would help. None of my maps identifies Cwmsyfiog, but there is a rail stn. about 1.5 km north on A4049 at the junction with B4511 (rail stn. a bit to the west of the Cwmsyfiog Rd.) which I gather to be Brithdir?
So a map of the area from the 1850 - 1900 time frame with the various pits being identified would be fascinating to look at.
I wonder if any old pit records exist? Pay sheets, that kind of thing, which would identify the workers? My great grandfather, according to a daughter, Blodwyn, went into the pits at the age of 8. That would have been in Bedwellty and the year would have been about 1862 (I understand an act of 1842 restricted children under 12 from working in the pits but it is known that this law was not followed).
So, as you study this area and community it would be fascinating to see any write-ups, maps or photo collections that you assemble.
Kenneth Scott
Dunedin, Florida
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Hi Roy
New user to the site. My great great grandparents William and Hannah Jenkins were living in 8 Brithdir Terrace in 1881. William died either 1884 or 1888 (not yet confirmed which) and on the 1891 census Hannah and children were living at George St. (George Inn houses). On the 1901 census they had moved to 5 School St., Brithdir and on the 1911 census Hannahs son and his wife child were at 8 School Street, Brithdir. Not yet confirmed when Hannah died.
Interested to see that you may be (are?) investigating Tir Phil. Just found out that my mothers cousins were the Morgan brothers (Danny, Terence, etc.) the well known boxers from Tir Phil. Do you have any info on their family because I have not yet found the connection.
Regards
Ray
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Hello Ray
Nice to hear from you, you say you are new to this site, well you will not be disappointed; it is number one in my book, a great source for seeking help with family history etc with many knowledgeable and helpful people on board. I use this site a lot in my research on Brithdir and have been very successful with enquiries posted to this site.
My interest in the village of Brithdir is because I was raised there and have many happy memories of growing up there and therefore I am researching anything and everything on its history from early beginnings through to present times. This includes anyone with a connection - born, married and died there etc - with the aim of writing the history of the village and of its people. If you can help in any way then I would be pleased to hear from you and will send my e-mail address via a PM.
How can you help? Well peoples memories are important so if you have any stories to share about Brithdir then I would be pleased to hear them. If you have photographs of those who lived there I would be most grateful for copies which as you can appreciate will only enhance the story of Brithdir.
I looked through my copies of the censuses and tracked the family through to 1901. I have’nt made a start on the 1911 census as yet so if you could send me a copy of the 1911 attached to an e-mail then that would be great.
I have a note of a marriage of William Jenkins to Lousia Lewis in the Mar Qtr 1896 [Merthyr Tydfil 11a 798] which could possible be Hannah’s son.
I am researching a John Griffith Jenkins at the moment, any relation to your family? John Griffith Jenkins, the son of Lewis John Jenkins and wife Sarah, 7 School Street, Brithdir, was killed in 1945, aged 23 whilst serving in the Royal Air Force.
Strange you should mention the boxing brothers, Danny and Terrence Morgan. Whilst reading through 50 years of back copies of local newspapers collecting articles on Brithdir I came across many accounts of their fights, unfortunately at the time made no record of them, but now that I have decided to include Tirphil and Cwmsyfiog in my work, I will need at some point to go back to the papers. I do recall a regular feature on Danny whilst boxing in Australia.
My aunt, Barbara Brewer married Denis Morgan [now deceased]
Regards Roy
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I lived in Brithdir, from 1939 to about 1963, I am new to this site, never been on one before,so i am a learner you will have to bare with me,every thing is new to me,I will try to get some info to you about Brithdir during that time, You will have to have a lot of patiance,I lived in Bristol terrace most of the time, I remember the Dandos, think they used to live in James Street, I am going to try and send you a pcture of Brithdir railway station from about 1950, as i said i am only a learner,You might get it if your lucky
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Hi Pielip
Being new to this site is no problem; its a brilliant site and members are only too please to help and give advice.
I am very pleased to hear from you; I lived in Brithdir from 1946 to 1966 so there is a good possibilty we know each other, if not me then my mother's family, the Brewer's [Wellington Terrace]. My name is Royston Smith, my mother remarried to Bill Hayes [Charles St]. I look forward to future correspondence.
Regards, Roy
PS sent you a PM
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I went to brithdir boys school during the war years,some of the boys i went to school with, Were Ned Rees, Cliff Brewer Malcom Cartwright,(Gordon) Douglas Major,By the way i did now Billy Hayes and his brother Joe, They were a bit older than me.They played snooker for brither working men club,Glad to see you got my photo i must be doing something right, For reason of my own i cannot stop on computer to long,I will write again.
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I can see we have a lot in commom; Cliff Brewer is my uncle, he now lives in New Tredegar but his brothers Granville and Geoff still live in Brithdir. Another brother Leon lives in Aberbargoed. I also knew Ned Rees and Doug Major very well. I was born 1944. Look forward to many more messages between us.
Regards, Roy
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I am sending you a photo of what i think is the george pit,What i can see of it nobody seems to now were it was,It was were the play ground was.They have now made the playground into a football pitch
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Did you have my photo
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No, I have not received your photo as yet, what method have you used to send it?