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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Donald71 on Tuesday 02 September 08 20:47 BST (UK)
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Hello
Does anyone have a copy Victorian Village: The Diaries of Reverend John Coker Egerton, Curate and rector of Burwash East Sussex, 1857-1888?
According to Google Books on p76 it refers to 'old George Waddell' but unfortunately it is only a snippet and I haven't been able to get hold of a copy of the book yet.
I think the George Waddell referred to is my great (x4) grandfather and was hoping someone would be able to look up the reference for me?
Many thanks
Donald
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Hi Donald
The snippet goes:
16 August
Spoke on my way back from St Philip's to old George Waddell and said Master Waddell I have often been told you say that if you had your life to lead over again, you would lead just such a one again as you have led, is that so. No sir, I have never said no such thing as that but I have often said that if I had plenty of money I'd keep a cry of dogs!
Kerry
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Thanks Kerry, that's brilliant and very kind of you. What year was that? Is there also a footnote? I have one copied down which ends "a poaching conviction at...." but I don't know what comes after that.
Donald
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The excerpt came from 1868 and there is a note that says:
A slightly different version appears in Sussex Folk p 105 where Egerton asserts that Waddell's addiction to hunting with beagles 'and other means, had wasted a fair income and had come to poverty'. In fact Waddell was one ofthe modest tenant farmers (54 acres in 1835, 95 acres in 1842) reduced between 1842 and 1851 to farm labouring. He took out a game licence after a poaching conviction at Battle in December 1833 but failed to renew it in 1840, when he was fined again. His ability to engage in sports collapsed with his status. 1842, Tithe. 1851 Census. Sussex Advertiser 16 Mar and 7 Sept 1835, 12 Sept 1836, 23 Sept, 1839 and 11 May 1840
HTH and I read avidly when I can hoping to come across one of my ancestors mentioned ::)
Kerry
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BTW I think I got my copy of the book through www.abebooks.co.uk and it is a very interesting read.
Kerry
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Thanks again Kerry. Really appreciated. I'm pretty certain that this is my George Waddell and he does seem to have gone down in the world. In 1861 he's listed under 'Persons not in Houses' and in 1871 he's in the workhouse!
I have seen a copy of the book on Amazon and on abebooks. Not particularly cheap but I may just have to go for it :)
Thanks again.
Donald
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Check out the info on this book on the Google Book site. Perhaps it's available from a library.
It was digitized this past June.
Jann
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Hi Kerry
I have been looking for this book after someone told me that there could be a mention of the Pilbeam family (not very complimentary by all accounts but heyho) would love to know what it says if you do get chance to glance through.
Any info would be appreciated.
Jane
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Hi Jane
Any particular Pilbeams? There are mentions of them in just about every chapter. Basically though the Burwash Pilbeams were generally thought to be a bunch of reprobates.
Mine had left Burwash and moved along to Dallington by that time ::) ;D
Kerry
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hi Kerry,
Yeah, I had heard that were a notorious bunch, don't you just love the interesting characters, hope they weren't too badly behaved though!! I have a fair few Pilbeams in my tree starting with Hannah Pilbeam (married Richard Lamb 1832) , she was my 3 x gt grandmother and possibly going back to 1500's and Robert Pilbeame but not my own research I am afraid. This has yet to be confirmed.
If they get a lot of mentions I think I may have to try to find this book, any idea whether it is still in print.
Jane
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Hi Jane
I don't think it is print at the moment but can usually be found in second hand bookshops and online. Amazon sometimes have it.
Its well worth buying, it really gives a interesting picture of a Sussex village during the 1800s.
My Pilbeams go back to Robert, when was Hannah born? she may well be in my tree.
Kerry
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Kerry
Hannah was born c 1812, daughter of William Pilbeam c1784 and Cordelia Lambert.
Is your research back to Robert Pilbeam 1590 confirmed info? if so we are connected somewhere along the line. I would love this to be correct but doubt anything that I have not got documentation for.
And now that book is definately on my wish list, am of to do online search. Want to know more about these Pilbeams and what they have been up too. I have John Pilbeam living at the Wheel Inn, Burwash which was purported to be the roughest pub for miles. Another branch of my tree has smugglers and yet another a witch so only to be expected : )
Jane
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Hi Jane
I don't think I have that Hannah in my tree but my line does goes back to Robert Pilbeame. My line goes through Thomas Pilbeam and Hannah Eastwood and eventually moved away from Burwash towards Dallington. I have over the last year been trying to confirm the tree I got from a contact on the web through parish registers.
Kerry
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Hi again Kerry
I have Thomas and Hannah in my tree also, Thomas was brother to my 5 x gt grandfather Robert.
And many thanks for your info, I have found a second hand copy of 'Sussex folk and Sussex ways' online and it should be winging its way to me. Look forward to reading about the Pilbeams.
Jane
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Excellent Jane that's a good read also.
If you want any information about Thomas or his children let me know and in the meantime if you visit http://www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk/html/george_pilbeam.html you can find out all about one of Thomas's sons who was my 4 x gr grandfather.
Kerry :)
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Hi Kerry,
I also have Pilbeams in my tree. A Harriet Pilbeam 1820 married a Rueben Russell in November 1844. Rueben and Harriet were my gt gt grandparents.
Rosemary
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Hi Rosemary and welcome to Rootschat ;D
I've been inputting some Burwash Pilbeam baptisms today onto my tree and came across a Bridge Russell Pilbeam baptised 1842 to a Harriot. Is that likely to be that Harriot do you know? I guessed that Russell must be the father's surname.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
Any chance of looking up Stephen Sands in the diary book? Google has a tantalising snippet that seems to include him, but it's very hard to make sense of. If Google is to be believed it's on page 48.
There's another hit for his name on page 263, but the snippet shows a Mrs Sands. If Stephen is mentioned there may I have that one too, please?
Many thanks in advance,
Stovepipe
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Hi Stovepipe
The first entry on page 48:
'Agricultural Labourer Stephen Sands, sixty-eight buried on the 4th. ESCRO Par.284/1/5/2"
The actual record in the book reads;
"3 Sept - Sands funeral. Mr Combs had a post mortem exam. & found that the poor man had been a fearful sufferer. The poor will seldom allow such a thing as a post mortem but in this case I am thankful it was allowed as the man had been considered a shammer...."
Kerry
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Hi again
the excerpt on page 263 is a Mrs Sands (Barn House).
Kerry
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Many thanks, Kerry - that's brilliant.
I'm going to look out for the diaries whenever I'm in a second-hand bookshop - seems like a fascinating work.
Best wishes,
Stovepipe
PS The year is 1858, I take it?
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They are a worthwhile addition to a local history library, very enlightening and sometimes quite comical. And the great thing is all the references are there so further research on any likely ancestors can be done.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
Thanks for the welcome.
Yes it would be one and the same. Harriet did have a child called Bridget. Harriet was my gt gt grandfather's second wife. His first wife Jane Barrow died in Ticehurst in 1839. They had 3 children. Sarah, George and Thomas. He then married Harriet in 1844, who I presume had Bridget by Reuben before they married. They then had a further 9 children. Frederick, Matilda, Elich, William, Reuben, Mary, Eli, Henry and Charles (my gt grandfather), who married a Rose Phillips. All were born around the areas of Burwash, Cuckfield, Kaymer, Linfield, Southwick. According to the 1861 census Reuben Russell was a Gamekeeper. Bridget Pilbeam Russell married a Charles Packham. There were many Russells and Pilbeams. Apparently there are still some Pilbeams in Burwash. This I cannot confirm because I live out in the Canary Islands and this was found out by pure luck. In that one of my clients actually lived in Burwash so knows the Pilbeams and apparently they are still a rum lot, whatever that means. Regards Rosemary
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The Pilbeams in Burwash were meant to be involved in sorts of things such as smuggling and the entries in the Coker Egerton diaries suggest they liked to drink a lot. Fortunately my Pilbeam line had moved away from Burwash towards Dallington before this time. If go to my website www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk you can see my family tree on the family tree tab. I will send the password by private message.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
Would you be so kind and look up page 311 no 7 re: 'Bodle' Richard Holmes I not sure if I'm seeing all the info.
Thanks
Sue
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Hi Sue
"The 1924 edition of Sussex Folk, opposite P 78 contains a photograph of Holmes, smoking his pipe and dated 1885. Holmes was the object of some publicity in 1883 when the Relieving Officer confirmed that Bodle, or Richard Holmes' baptism 97 years previously was entered in the Heathfield parish register. However, Bodle claimed that he was baptised as a child of six or seven and remembered the occasion. The report added that Holmes' brother Henry, aged about ninety, goes to work on the road every day. Bodle is said to have consumed a great deal of beer in his time, and can now even discuss a pint with considerable relish. Beer drinkers, with this example of longevity .... may fairly challenge their teetotal friends to produce a champion who has lived so long". The Sussex Agricultural Express 7 April 1883
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
Thanks for the info.
When Bodle (Richard Holmes) died there was a dispute to his age - he said to be 107 and the bapt was 102 but he said he remember walking to his bapt in his socking feet.
Bodle had 10 sisters and 4 brothers but I have no record of a Henry - I do have a William but have not found anything on him - so I'm thinking was he called Henry.
So thanks I'm off to check the census.
kind regards
Sue
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Hi sue
An intriguing tale. I just got my copy of Sussex Folk out and there is a wonderful photo of Bodle Holmes.
I'd love to know what you find about him.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
I do have a photo of Richard 'Bodle' Holmes I don't know if it is the same one he looks like a character
he wearing a sussex smock and big hat.
Drinking all that beer didn't do him any harm living to 107? - I did read somewhere that it was sometimes better than the water.
regards
Sue
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Hi Sue
Yep that's him, I heard that the beer was safer than the water to drink, certainly reading about history it seems to be what people used to drink, but it was quite watered down and not like beer as we know it today.
Kerry
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Bodle had 10 sisters and 4 brothers but I have no record of a Henry - I do have a William but have not found anything on him
Sue, I wondered a bit about Henry's identity. He could be William (who would have been in his nineties in 1883), but William is very elusive. It's hard to be sure, but my guess is that he's Thomas, aged 82 in 1881 - so well short of ninety in 1883, but at least he's alive and well and in Heathfield at the time. And according to the 1881 census he's a road labourer.
Oh, and Bodle is his lodger in the census.
Stovepipe
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Hi Stovepipe
Last night I was checking the census - Ive come to the same conclusion I think Henry was Thomas.
There is a William Holmes who married Emma Haffenden they had 2 children
a William and Richard. William died in 1838 - I going to order his death cert it may give us some more
info.
Regards
Sue
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Greetings from Australia
Bodle is also the brother of my 3xgrandfather, John.
I would love to find out more about him and possible connections to Sue's family.
The photo I have is supposed to be from the book 'Sussex Folk and Sussex Ways'.
According to my records John had a daughter Elizabeth born 1819.
Ron Holmes
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A few years ago my library managed to get hold of the book for me.Worth a try.
Ringrose
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Yep the picture you refer to is in Sussex Folk and Sussex Ways with Bodle Holmes noted as a 'centenarian native of Heathfield 1885'.
I found my book from an Oxfam shop!
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Hi Oakholm,
Welcome to the Sussex boards
I'm a descendant of John Holmes 1788 and Sophia Russell, my line is with their son John born 1814 in Heathfield, who married Ann Clifton. I do have a picture of (Bodle) Richard Holmes, wearing a Sussex smock he is the brother of John 1788 their parents were Richard Holmes and Grace Parsons.
John and Sophia children
William 1812 who died 1814 aged 2.
John 1814
Elizabeth 1818
Jane Ann 1822
Hannah 1823
Sarah Ann 1826
Richard 1828
Henry William 1830
So are we cousins :)!!!
Best regards
Sue
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Hi Sue
I do believe that we are cousins. I am descendent from Richard born 1828 and married to Ann Hall.
We have had difficulty determing his parents and currently have his father born in 1794 and married to Sophia Sweatman.
Your information would appear to provided the accurate information we have been missing.
I would appreciate any information on Richard's parents and anything before that as we are real novices in this area.
Ron
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Hi Sue
Do you know I'd John and Bodle had any brothers and sisters?
Ron