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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: Ringrose on Tuesday 28 March 06 16:53 BST (UK)
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Still trying to find the birth of Elizabeth Gaudern who according to her marriage cert had a father John who was a bootmaker. From censuses and certs it would seem that she was born in Northampton around 1825.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ringrose
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Hi Ringrose
There is an Elizabeth aged 16 in Castle St no other family members?
What do you think. !!!!!!!!!!!!
Sandy
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Yes I had found her thereI believe in 1841 before her marriage to a Samuel Ringrose. She was with the Hillyer family and Hannah was a Gaudern before her marriage.
Thanks again
Ringrose
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Hi Ringrose
I have an Elizabeth Gaudern, bit too early for yours, but it's such an unusual surname.
Elizabeth Gaudern married William Linnell 4 August 1825 at Cottesbrooke.
As yet haven't been able to find out anything about her, she was born c1807 Cottesbrooke. There are two on the IGI but have discounted them (can't remember why!) ???
Susan :)
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The Gauderns are a very elusive lot and I have got no further. It may be that the spelling of the name changed maybe to Gordon or other variants. I am now wondering whether the family came from Northants even though my Elizabeth was born and married inNorthampton. Her father John was a bootmaker and could have come to N/H for work. There seem to be quite a few in the Peterborough area.
Any way one day perhaps we will both have a breakthrough.
Ringrose
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have you tried doing a general search on ancestry
from SAM
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Hi Sam
Thanks for your interest. The one I am tracing, Elizabeth Gaudern (married name Linnell) have on all census until she died 3rd January 1871.
In the new year am going to search parish records for earlier information.
Regards
Susan :)
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My Elizabeth Gaudern had married by 1851 . Although I know her father was John there are more than one possibility in the area . In 1851 she is living in Castle Street witha Hannah Hillyer. Hannah was a Gaudern so maybe Johns sister. I dont know.Ther are lots of Gauderns in Hanslope and a few in Earls Barton.
Ringrose
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Hi. I have come to this Elizabeth Gaudern and John Linnell discussion rather late, but I have this to add:
I was researching William Gaudern who was the Administrator for the affairs of an ancestor (his sister I think) in 1851, and I discovered him living with his wife Alice and unmarried daughter Harriet (born 1808) in South Kilworth, in the census of 1851. I looked for them again in 1861 (by which time I guess William and Alice were dead, though there's no death certificates to be found - goodness me these Gauderns are indeed elusive) and there was the same Harriet 10 years older, still unmarried and living with a farmer called John Linnell and his wife Elizabeth in Sulby. It is a fair guess that Elizabeth was Harriet's married sister and I am therefore able to tell you who Elizabeth Linnell's Gaudern grandparents were.
They were Stephen Gaudern married to Frances Weldon (1739 - after 1813) of Duddington. I can only be certain of this from family wills because the Gauderns seem to be allergic to all records. I had not known they had a son called William until I looked in the wills and probate section of Find My Past, but they did have a son called James, and a James William Gaudern died in the Oundle district in 1862. This last bit is only a guess, but it is definite that William Gaudern of South Kilworth was a very close relative of Frances Weldon (nee Gaudern), who was definitely a daughter of Stephen and Frances Gaudern (nee Weldon). If you are muddled it is because the Weldons were dead keen on marrying their first cousins.
Hope this helps
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Amend that. Elizabeth Gaudern was married to William Linnell (not John)
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Hello Sleepless2 and welcome to RootsChat :D
Thank you, thank you, brickwalls tumbling down!
I had the 1851 census details after finding Harriet lodging with Elizabeth in Sulby 1861 but hadn't definitely linked them, as Elizabeth had given her place of birth as Cottesbrooke, Northants, where she married William Linnell.
William and Elizabeth were my paternal 3x grt.grandparents and now, with the additional informaton you have given, will be able to research further back.
Regards
Susan :)
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Good to hear from you. Obviously, it is not 100% yet, but it seems very very likely they are related, in which case you have got a close connection with my Stephen Gaudern who married Frances Weldon. Their daughter Frances (19 July 1763 - 8 March 1851) was widowed by 1851 and childless (she was the third wife of my ancestor who was her first cousin) and aged 87. Harriet Gaudern's father William of South Kilworth was her Administrator, aged 73, so he must have been closely related. The dates I have for the family suggest a younger brother is 100% more likely than a nephew. He might have been a cousin I suppose (less likely).
I am very puzzled by this branch of the family. The Weldons were well to do and London-based who married into the very-well established and landed family of Jackson of Duddington (hence their presence in Duddington), and yet there is a Weldon Gaudern, who can only be a grandson of Stephen and Frances with an unusual name like that, who was a Gamekeeper. And all the Gauderns I have found at Apethorpe (by surfing the web), who definitely bear the same family Christian names that repeat and repeat amongst my Weldons, seem relatively impoverished and close to the land.
So on the one hand, there are a whole load of closely connected Gauderns, some of whom are farmers of very few acres, others gamekeepers and others agricultural labourers, and yet Stephen Gaudern had Weldon nieces, who married into the family of Marsh/Fludyer, several of whom were MPs and one was Lord Mayor of London, who left an estate of £900,000 in 1768!! (He was a clothier and then Deputy Governor of the Bank of England)
It may simply be the difference between town and country at that time. It was not a good time to have your wealth tied up in farming.
Quite a few of the Weldons left wills (and I think there are more to be found) with bequests to their Gaudern nieces and nephews, so I will let you know if I find anymore
All good wishes from Sleepless 2!
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PS from Sleepless 2.
I am almost certain William must have been the brother of Frances Weldon nee Gaudern, because Frances had a very able 40 year old stepson, who could easily have been the |Administrator of her estate and lived much closer than William Gaudern of South Kilworth and was a more suuitable age to be running about, which suggests that William Gaudern must have been a very very close relation.
Also, to help you on your way, I only found out that the Frances married to James Marsh Weldon was Frances Gaudern, when I found the Apethorpe site listing all the births marriages and deaths at Apethorpe, which is where they were married in 1814. In other words, this branch of the Gauderns has a very definite Apethorpe connection. It must have been where Frances was living, because James M Weldon lived in London. And as she was a spinster until she is 51, she must have been living there with her mother (father died 1800, I think, in Apethorpe) or a brother/sister.
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I have had a real go at the Gaudens this evening. William Gaudern of South Kilworth was born at Moubray Lawn, Northamptonshire, but it is almost impossible to decipher, without some sort of pointer, which I have now got because I have now found another of my Gauderns who says he was born at Moubray Lawn Lodge, Apethorpe. In other words William Gaudern of South Kilworth is definitely the son (the youngest possibly) of Stephen Gaudern and Frances Weldon (1739 -1818 Apethorpe).
What I am almost sure happened is that the eldest son (or eldest surviving son) James, born 1760, got the land or whatever wealth was going, or more likely married a rich wife. His descendants, farmers, seem to have lived fairly comfortably and kept servants, whereas Stephen (junior) born about 1770 was not so well off, had a large family and within 2 generations they were all fairly impoverished (no land and certainly no servants). I don't know much about William yet - you may know more - but he seems to have had a bit of land, though not as much as his nephew Stephen (born 1783) and Stephen's son Charles. (The rich branch farmed at Nassington, whereas the impoverished ones either stayed in Apethorpe or went to Kings Cliffe. William of South Kilworth seems to have kept on the move.)
The fact of the two Stephens (1770 and 1783, the one the uncle of the other) was very muddling until I worked it out.
Hope this helps...
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Hi Sleepless
Have been looking at my notes and what I have on William, not much! Have him and Alice in 1841 at the "Grange", South Kilworth, Harriet also at home, plus three servants. Thank you for Moubray Lawn, I couldn't decipher that on the 1851!
William and Alice died in 1855.
The next step is parish registers.
From Musgrave Obituaries there's a Weldon Gaudern of Duddington 31 August 1794; possible grandfather for Weldon Gaudern - Gamekeeper?
Will PM you my email
Regards
Susan :)
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Hello there,
I tried emailing you this at XXX but it got rejected.
I saw some of your posts there ref Gaudern back in Apr 2006.
There are a lot of uncanny links between Coldham, Gaudern and Gawdy;
one being in Redenhall, Suffolk where there was a Coldham Hall and a Gawdy Hall.
I should mention that i have FRANE ancestry.
Hence the area of of HANSLOPE-GAYHURST in Buckinghamshire was of prime interest as Gayhurst belonged to a certain Osulf Fil-Frane. I only discovered yesterday there were GAUDERN's in Hanslope, and a Michaelis de Hamslape who was warden of Rockingham Castle (Northants) in 1104-06.
I believe the name GAUDERN might be a corruption of Wardon (wardon) which would have been (Li) GUARDEN after 1066..
Do you know anything about the medieval history of the GAUDERN's?
Osulf Fil Frane's ancestor, Fraena Eorl, also held Rockingham Castle & feoffs in Peterborough; which is in the same area as the later Gaudern families of Northants.
I have many GORDON DNA matches which very probably means that this GAUDERN line was part of my ancestry.
I also do not (yet) understand the cross-linkage between Frane/Gaudern/Gordon & Gawdy.
I would be delighted with any scraps of info on the Gaudern's as I have no info.
ps: has any male GAUDERN taken a YDNA test? If not, i recommend they do so, i am just setting up a COLDHAM surname page...& can advise them how to get a test at a very discounted price.
Sincerely
Gerard Coldham
London Uk
MODERATOR COMMENT: email addresses removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure PM system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
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Hi Gerald,
A big welcome to RootsChat. ;D
I am sorry we no not allow email addresses to be posted, nor identifying information on living persons due to privacy concerns. I have split your post from the gardening thread on the Totally off Topic Bit which is the board where our members take a break from their research and chat about non genealogy things.
I do not know who you are trying to contact. Can you please give me the RootsChatters user name and I will try to place it in the correct location for you. I see most posts concerning the name Gaudern are in Northamptonshire.
I note in our Surname Interests Table
http://surname.rootschat.com/
we have 2 members who have listed an interest in the name
Kind Regards .................Kris :D
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Hi again Gerald,
I see both our members who have registered an interest in the name Gaudern have been involved in this thread and as Keziahemm is involved in the Gardening Thread I suspect it may be Susan you are trying to contact ;)
Since you have gone offline I have merged your post to this thread and hopefully this should attract the attention of both of our interested members. To use the PM system you will need to make a couple more posts and then you will be able to share email addresses securely. Sorry for the inconvenience - unfortunately implemented to ensure members were genuine, brought about due to spammers joining and using our PM system for improper purposes.
For links to threads about how to do just about anything on RootsChat including sending a PM please see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,207046.0.html
All the Best..........Kris :D
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Hello Gerard
I haven't looked at my Gaudern line for a while but from memory couldn't find a connection to the Hanslope Gauderns.
The name Gaudern (sometimes Gordon) has been used as a "christian" name for a number of my female ancestors since the marriage of Elizabeth Gaudern to William Linnell, my 3 x grt. grandparents. Going back on Elizabeth Gaudern's line most of the male Gauderns were Gamekeepers to the Earl of Westmorland on his various estates in Northamptonhire.
Sorry no male Gauderns in my line.
Susan
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It seems Gaudern was also used for surname Gordon.
The Northampton registers of which there are a number for each of the several Northampton churches, plus Nonconformists Registers.
Mark