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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: TraceyNZ on Friday 29 August 08 23:11 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find out what happened to this couple.
They both emigrated to New Plymouth, on board the William Bryan in 1840/41. At the time Ann was a widow and was travelling with her children: sons Edward, Richard and John and daughters Jane, Mary, Ann and Emma (my gr gr gr grandmother).
Arthur and Ann married in New Plymouth in 1841 and from that point on there doesnt appear to be any trace of them in New Zealand, Australia or England.
I think they may have gone to America? Ann was still young enough to have had more children.
If anyone has researched Ann I would love to hear from them.
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Hello Tracey
Nothing much to offer other than a friendly hello and a welcome to Rootschat.
I'm assuming you believe they left NZ as a family and that Emma or her descendants later returned ? .. just a guess from your user name ;)
The sticky topics at the top of the NZ board contain a lot of information and links... not easy though to find passenger lists for departures from NZ ... Papers Past might be worth trying though.
At least you have a good starting point with date of the marriage and names of Emma's siblings....and hopefully a certificate or 2.
Good luck with your researching, there must be a number of rellies and connections out there for you ... and a very good heading by the way, one of those rellies will google same at some point :D
:) mare
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Was someone born/die 11 Dec 1849 New Plymouth
Just a mention on NZSG CD under a cert collection for ANN PHILLIPS. but may be another Ann as she would be DAWE by then
Have you tracked the other siblings? Was there any family info on Emma's marriage cert?
BYe
Althea
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Hi Tracey
This Family Tree has your names on it http://jellabeeba.googlepages.com/phillipsfamilytree
There are no Dawes buried in the New Plymouth area
There's also a mention of Arthur on this site http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:NL2qwQAeRFQJ:breesestreet.org/~peter/documents/Lakeman.pdf+arthur+dawe+nz&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=nz&client=firefox-a
http://emilyjtucker.googlepages.com/johnphillips and another Tree
Regards
lil
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Hi Tracey .... welcome to Rootschat.
Wow lil you have been a busy beaver, Tracey will be in for a surprise when she sees it. ;D
Cheers
KHP :D
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thanks for the replies :)
I just typed a lengthy reply and lost it all :-\ when the page froze.. just my luck
lil growler.. the first and last links you posted I knew about, the first is my own site and the last is my research partner.. but I didnt know about the middle one and will take a look at it shortly.. thank you. :)
apart from Emma I only know about 3 of the sister's.. the remaining 3 (youngest) siblings probably went with their mother.
I have Ann and Arthur's marriage certificate but its very basic, not even their ages are on it.
Mare, I've heard from people here and there via my site.. thats how I've managed to find out about the marriages of the three other siblings... it has helped hugely to have a website up and running, its so exciting when you hear from somebody.
Althea.. thats very interesting. Ann had already named one of her children Ann.. but she married on the ship and was Ann James by that time.. but its not a very common surname.
I hope I've answered all the questions and not missed any, I smell my dinner cooking and its making me hungry. I will come back later when the kids are tucked up in bed.
I'm grateful the tips. :D
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So you do have info on the family members, but not Arthur & Ann ?
Just trying to clarify exactly who we are looking for !
Would have been nice to put up the website link first, :)
On the website it says Ann died in NZ, is that right ?
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Hi Tracey
If you haven't found Ann. There is an Ann James that matches the age for your Ann in the Te Henui Cemetery. There are a few John James there also
http://www.newplymouthnz.com/AtoZOfCouncilServices/CemeteriesAndCrematorium/CemeterySearch.htm
KHP :)
lil
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thanks lil growler.. Ann James was Ann's daughter and I didn't have those details ;D
zephyr - Ann didn't die in New Zealand.. I have just edited that page and corrected it.. lots of pages spread over 3 sites and its easy to leave out a word here and there. I have looked through all the fiche and neither her nor Arthur died in New Zealand.
The reason for starting my first thread was in case someone might know where Arthur and Ann went .. there are hundreds of descendants just from the four sisters in NZ that I know of, and I hope one day I hear from someone who has found out where they went... only one person I've heard from has tried to find if she went to Australia but nothing indicates that they did.
And yes I should have put the site link on.. but I didn't think of it for my first time.. I will definately add them in future.
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All ok,
Shout outs are fine,
just our eager searchers will start working on the family STRAIGHT AWAY, :) and its always good to have any extra info.
:)
from the second link looks like Arthur was still here in 1845, is this the last noted sighting ?
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yes that is the last that is known of Arthur in New Zealand.
I just searched through a few hits in the paperspast site but nothing there either.
I just had a look at Emma's marriage certificate, she was 17 and her mother gave consent for her to marry. That was 1844.
I think this will just be one of those little mysteries. I don't think there is much more I can do except hope that the other children married, had families, and that their descendants gets family tree fever and realise they have a NZ connection.
I would like to add one more family thread.. is the done thing to start a new thread or should I stick to this one? a different surname and different part of my tree... its the one family in my tree that has been difficult to find information on
thank you :)
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New thread, :)
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Hi Tracey
This is what I found at the library, in the Biography's. Be aware the dates may need to be checked for accuracy as the information ( dates may be inconsistent) was submitted to the library by 2 separate people. I may also have doubled up on the information as well.
re Ann Cox:John Phillips a seaman died between 1832 and 1840. The Phillips family came from Kew in Cornwall.
Phillips children:
Richard Phillips bought an acre of land in NP but it's thought he went to Ballarat Goldfields in Australia about 1851.
John is said to have died of exposure while Flounder fishing near Havelock in the South Island.
Emma m Edward Tucker-11 children
Mary m George Humphries, at least 6 children
Jane b 1821 1 1884 m James Climo - 12 children
Ann 1823 - 1867
Richard 1825 - ?
Emma 1827 1 1908
John 1830 - 1900
Mary 1832 - 1911
It mentioned John Johus? James on the William Bryant that married Ann.
John John James
B c 1814 in Stoke England
d 14 6 1898 New Plymouth9 This will be on the same site I gave you for Ann James's cemetery record.
buried 17 6 1898. Henui Cem
he was a farmer
Ann James ( nee Phillips )
b c1823
m 14 1 18?1 ( will recheck the year again )
d 2 5 1867 Poverty Flats
The Children of John and Ann
1 Fredrick Robert b 28 6 1852 died 22 4 1938 ( other info says 28 4 1934 ) Bushman and Grocer
m 21 10 1874 Julia Fox
2 Louisa Jane ( 1847- ? ) m ( 1 ) Emanuel Newell ( by the reverend John Whitely ) 9 12 1866. m ( 2 ) a Mr Jury. c or b date for Lousia 16 7 1847 NP, d 1925
3 Thomas b c1858 NP, d 5 9 1937 NP , m 15 11 1904 to Mary Jane Crozier.
4 ? b c1860
5 Richard William b 1863, d 1866/67 aged 3 and 1/2
6 John b? d aged 8 months
7 Arthur b? d aged 4 months
Mrs John James and 6 children were evacuatedto Nelson in 1860 ( land Wars ) On 31 March 1863 she was recorded as residing in Nelson with 7 children. Still on emergency rations.
New Plymouth Harbour Board Electoral Role
John James: Boatman owning Property in the Borough of NP valued at 20 pounds and therefore entitled to one vote.
John James: Labourer owning property in the boroughof NP, the Waitara and Omata to the value of 33 pounds, five shillings and therefore entitled to one vote.
John Jonas James
c 23 12 1844 NP( one of the children John )
John Phillips James
c 21 12 1846? NP
Mary Jane Crozier : b ca 1879, d 19 6 1954 NP
Emmanuell Newell b? d?
James Jury b 1856, d 1939
Marion Steveson b ca 1911, d 21 5 1966
This maybe child number 4 John John James b or c 3 6 1898 NP, d 30 8 1960, m Marion Stevenson.
I'll post the rest of the information soon
Regards
lil
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wow lil.. Thank you!!
I have to take my son to the local museum so he can finish his homework.. I will check everything when I get back
thank you, this is wonderful.
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Hi Tracey
Understand that. I need to take my son and friend out soon to burn off some energy. ;D
From the index cards. ( I looked at these first but since I now have more names I'll recheck them when I go back. I'll also photocopy the biography info and news articles.
From the Index Cards: These may or maynot be yours.
Nothing on Ann Phillips ( Cox ) or the Dawe name. I can ring St Mary's , if they had any children in New Plymouth, the information might be there.
Phillips ? Company 9, Date Report Sick 15 July 1865, In Hospital Stoney River, Source: in NZ Defense Dept Militia and Volunteers Sick Report.
TH = Taranaki Herald
Phillips: Birth of son 1 N 1883 TH 2 Nov 1883
Phillips: Birth Notice ( son ) TH 11 S 1935
Phillips John: Rank, Private, Remark 1 Apr - 23 May 1861, 50 days, 53 days onshore. 3 days pay stopped - discharged 23 May, Source in NZ Defense Dept Militia an Volunteers Quarterly Pay - List Apr - June 1861.
Hillips A: Marriage of son James to Gertrude Ann Vercoe 23 Je 1880, TH 6 Jl 1880.
Phillips John , Omata/Sawyer 1858- 59 Jurors List, TH 20 Feb 1858 and 1860-61, Th 19 Feb 1860.
James John: Avenue Road, Labourer, 1855 Jurors List, TH 14 Feb 1885 suppl, and 1856-57, TH 15 Mar 1856, also 1858-59, TH 20 Feb 1850.
James John New Plymouth, Boatman 1860-61 Jurors List, TH 18 Feb 1860.
James John New Plymouth Labourer 1860-61 Jurors List, TH 18 Feb 1860.
James John: Rank Private, Remarks: Period ending 30 June 1861-91 days, Boat. Source: in NZ Defense Dept Militia and volunteers Taranaki Quarterly Pay List Apr-June 1861.
James John: Death of 4th son Henery Western aged 83, Nov 16 1920, TH Nov 16 1920.
James John: Death of wife Emma, Sept 10 1935 aged 84, TH Oct 18 1935.
I'll mention here from the Biographies also it says that Ann Phillips and John James were married 14 1 1841
regards
lil
PS more to come.
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incredible,, thank you SOooo much.
I hardly had any of this information.
I'm flat out on the paperspart website right now (while my husband is outside working hard in the garden.. but I cant help myself)
I just found the first birth notice in the T Herald.. its pretty general, just the wife of Mr Phillips.. but one day I might be able to place that clipping with the family.
I found the Phillips-Vercoe marriage there too.. dont know yet if its one of mine but ironically the name Vercoe pops up twice in another parts of the same tree.
I will keep chipping away at that.. but wanted to tell you how grateful I am, its amazing to find all this after 4-5 years of researching and not having a clue about it!
since two of the younger boys died in NZ it seems even more likely that Ann and Arthur might have stayed. I never took note of any Daw or Dawe fiche, which their names might have been registered as at death.. I will need to look into that I think.
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Hi Tracey
I just finished typing out all this info and my tab closed before I could post it grrrrrrrr
Julia Fox's parents are Benjamin and Fanny Fox
Children for Fred Robert James and wife Julia are
1 Robert d aged 20 ?
2 Fanny b 16 8 1884 NP d 19 10 1967 m William Green
3 Fred Alonzo c 16 2 1879 never married
4 Alec ( Alex ) Turnick c 11 7 1877 NP
5 Doris ( Julia Doris ) b ca 1891 NP d 23 10 194? m George Green on 30 3 1910
6 Leslie- killed in Action WW1
7 Annie married Joe Utiger
8 Edward b 25 6 1895 m Maisie Doig in 1920
9 John b 3 6 1898 m Marion Stevens
10 William ( George? ) b 23 2 1876NP d 30 10 1946 m Mrs Smith( Mary Priscilla )
11 Arthur b 4 1 1889 d 29 1 1959 Wanganui m 27 2 1918 in Wanganui Amy Betts ( from Auckland )
Fred William Green b 18 8 1872 Biscester Oxford England d 14 3 1954 Stratford
George Green b ca 1875 d 20 5 1937 NP
Many of the names I gave are on here http://www.newplymouthnz.com/AtoZOfCouncilServices/CemeteriesAndCrematorium/CemeterySearch.htm
Stratford Cemetery Link http://www.stdc.co.nz/index.php?page=home.php
The Johus I gave for John James name eg William Bryan is Probably John instead of Johus
Regards
lil
I will update this post soon, I have some NZSG index info.
NZSG Index
Theres a marriage for an Emmanuel Newell in Patea 18 May 1888 ( remarriage or child maybe )
James Climo was also on the Willaim Bryan
A child for James Climo and Jane b 16 Jul 1857 NP.
Possible birth for James Climo Bodmin Con England c 1822
Humpries George 1840-1850 Folio 0005 to Phillips . Comments: Spouse Ver Pre 1855 Marriage
Fanny Ruth m Willaim Greeen Folio 1900 in 1903
Amy Beatrice to James in 1918 folio 1248
Child for Ann and John James birth 11 Dec 1849NP
A John James is mentioned in Early Settlers ( Discoveries Vistitor Traders Whalers and Early Residence. PS1
A Fredrick James b 1846
Julia Fox's birth is correct.
Fred and Julia m folio 2112
Emmauel and Louisa m Folio 0581
Maisie Elizabeth Doig m Edward James in 1920, folio 07205
There is a Newell E Source: Discharged in NZ Soliders of the Imperial Foot Reg't discharged in NZ 1840- 1870 H and L Hughes, p33
This is only the NZSG Index's that I have looked for.
Sorry the information is a bit scattered. I will copy the biographies and send to you within the next two weeks when i revisit the library.
That's it for now ;D
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thanks again lil growler
I just searched paperspast and found:
a death notice in the TH for Emanuel Newell, died in Inglewood on 14 Jan 1884, aged 46 .. this could be his father :D
why are certificates so darned expensive? I would have liked to verify their marraige and found out but I have so many others to order first that are more directly related :)
I have added all your information to my FTM program and cant thank you enough for doing this for me.
The icing on the cake would be to hear from the people who shared that information... perhaps one day I will.
:) :) :) :) :)
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Your Welcome
Opps forgot to add that I'll send you the Source names. Will PM now .They may not be at the same address. Just a thought. I wonder if the Dawes went to Nelson also at the start of the Taranaki Wars.
lil
Scratah that, wasn't the last sighting of them in 1845?
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Hi Tracey
I have some information for you regarding the Climo name.
I did go back to the biographies to photocopy the info on the Phillips and it wasn't there. The librarian is having a look for it for me. So next time.
There was no sign of Edward Tucker in the indexs or biographies.
From the Index Cards
Jane who married James Climo.
Climo Jane died 1 Jul 1884, TH 2 Jul 1884.
Climo J. Homestead burnt to the ground by Maori's 17 Mar 1860 and 31 Mar 1861. TH 6 April 1861.
Climo James. New Plymouth, Sawyer. 1855 Jurors List TH 14 Feb 1855 p4. Also same details on the following Lists, 1856-1857 Jurors List, TH 15 Mar 1856 + 1858-1859 Jurors List, TH 20 Feb 1858 + 1860-1861 Jurors List, TH 18 Feb 1860.
I'll look for more information when I am next at the library.
Cheers
lil
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thank you for that lil.
I will add that all in now.. every now and then i hear from one of his descendants so everything is appreciated :)
hope the rest of your day goes well.. I'm just taking time out from giving my eldest daughter's bedroom a thorough clean while shes out fishing. >:( she wont even miss half the stuff shes been holding on to.
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She may not notice straight away, but eventually the questions will be asked, mum have you seen.......
Ummmmmmmm no , I haven't ;D ;D ;D
Works for me, mostly ;D
lil
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Hi Tracey
I have a funeral notice and copies of the information I wrote out for you. Would you like to PM me your email addy.
I did find some information on a Benjamin Fox ( Julia fox's fathers name, she married Fredrick James ) but I don't think he is the right one, unless he remarried.
There was no further information for a George who married Doris James and William Green , who married Fanny James. No information on Marion Stevens who married John James.
Regards
lil
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Hi Tracey
I have just discovered a 20 page book written up about John Johns James and Ann Phillips and descendants etc. If you'd like me to photocopy it, let me know. Theres quite a bit of information.
Regards
lil
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Hi,
Have just found this thread. I am descended from Emanuel Newell and Lousia James. Would be interested in any information especially on Arthur and Ann
Jillian
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Hello Jillian :) Welcome to RootsChat ... I had a notification of your posting on Saturday as TraceyNZ will have done, you may have to be patient as it appears she hasn't been on line to RC since August 2009, could mean any number of things but others may pick up on the thread. As the posting before yours mentions, lil growler discovered a book with information a year ago, she has been about but last on line 5th June this year, so will no doubt get back to you when she visits here again. I have no connections to the family, just didn't want you to feel abandoned for too long :) mare
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Hi Tracey,
How are you getting on with the search for Arthur & Ann? I still have nothing on them other than their date of marriage and a notice of residence in New Plymouth in the early 1840's for Arthur (no mention of Ann - he was living as a single person?). The Climo Chronicles state that when James and Jane came back to Inglewood in the early 1860's, after Jane got sick, her sister Ann had passed away (in 1867) but her mother was still living in the area, yet there are no records. There is a cemetery record for an Annie Phillips in the Te Henui Cemetery here in New Plymouth but the location of the grave is unknown and there are no dates.
Ann James and some of her children and their families are also buried in Te Henui but we haven't been able to physically locate their graves yet ... but we hope to.
I have most of Ann Phillips' Senior's children and descendants listed in my tree - if you would like the information I have, please PM me :)
I think I have found John Phillips' but can't confirm if it's our John or not but the movements of the John I have found come very close to those locations where John & Ann's children were born ... we figured Cornwall would be a similar size to Taranaki - he was an agricultural labourer. The John I found was older than Ann - he died in 1840 aged 65 - Ann was in her early 40's when she was widowed. It was common for men to have younger wives - the marriage record I found has the date of April 1819, in St Teath, Cornwall.
Richard Phillips did go to Ballarat and he married an Australian girl, Elizabeth Jane Pincott, in 1855. They had two children, Richard John Thomas & Elizabeth Jane Annie. Richard died in 1869, aged only 44. Elizabeth re-married to a John Fisher.
John Phillips Jnr died in Mahikipawa, Marlborough aged 65 in 1900. He died of exposure (hypothermia) after a fishing trip.
Please PM me if you want any information and I'll send you my email address - I'm always searching records, looking for answers.
Kind regards,
Amber :)
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Hi
Anne Phillips was my 3 great grandmother ....
I have some details of the James family.
Does anyone know what caused the demise of Benjamin Leverick Fox
27/10/1865
regards Warren
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Hello Amber
I have a great stack of photo-copied burial records for the James families.
Anne Phillips m John James, Frederick m Julia, Arthur m Amy, they had a
daughter Sybil who was my mother
I to have had trouble locating old graves at Te Henui so if you ever find some
that can help, let me know and I will come down from Hamilton for the weekend.
Regards
Warren
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The Book.
I see mention of the book about my 2 great grandparents John and Ann
I would gladly pay for a copy and cheerfully add the necessary postage.
Regards
Warren
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Hello,
If you order a printout* the cause of death should be provided......
1864/5785 Fox Benjamin Leverick 38Y
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/
*May contain more information, cheaper than a certificate and can be e-mailed.
Minniehaha.
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Hi, I'm trying to find out more information about Emanuel Newell, who was my gg grandfather. I am a descendant on Ann Phillips on the William Bryan as well.