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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: Phil Goater on Friday 29 August 08 12:24 BST (UK)
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I've just found an entry in 'The Times ' concerning a distant spinster relative who died in 1957 with an address given of 'Barwythe House' Studham, Beds. Can anyone shed any light on whether that was her own property or perhaps where she might have been looked after?
Phil
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Hi Phil
There is a bit of info here
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43279
It would seem she would have to have been well off to be the owner - see mention here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~thegrove/gec.html
"Barwythe, Studham. 22.5 acres 5 Recep, 16 Bedrooms £16,500"
16 bedrooms and worth £16,500 in the late 40's!
Jan ;)
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Hi Phil,you may already know the area, but in case you don't Studham was a small place in the 1950's on the Bedforshire boarders not far from Whipsnade Zoo. Barwythe House I Imagen to be Barwythe Hall which was a commune in the 1950's,I bet this is where she was living.If she was elderly she could well be been looked after there as there wasn't many nursing homes around then.Regards Nipy
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Thank you very much Jan and Nipy,
I have no local knowledge of the area and would love to know more about this commune. The lady in question was the spinster daughter of an Inspector of Army Schools in India (who retired with the honourary rank of Lt.Col.) The idea that perhaps his daughter was a member of a commune is quite amusing. Her death was described as 'sudden' and she was only 59 so I'd be surprised if she was being nursed there.
I saw the detail of the house 1947-9 but not the history site. I wonder if there is any way of finding out who paid the princely sum of £16,500 for it?
Cheers,
Phil
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Hello Phil,I'm sorry not to be able to give you any more info,it wasn't a hippie commune or anything like that .It's a long time ago now Phil & when I use to drink in the Farmers Boy (I'm sure that's what the local pub was called) in Kensworth the next village over from Studham the rumours were they worked for the Government, others said they were a Religious organization,but what ever they where it was classed as respectable & I don't think any one ever really knew. It was all rumours,they may have just been people that lived in the big house,that no one knew nothing about!Be very interesting to find out.It's a shame I no longer know any one from that area,maybe some one will read this & be able to shed a bit more light on it.Good luck Phil,seems as if your going to have a bit of fun finding out about Barwythe,Cheers Nipy
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Barwythe Hall, and House, seem to be differant properties. Was "house" a hotel??/nursing home??
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Hi again Phip,just in-case you write up notes on your family history & like to add a little flavorer into the insight of where people lived whom their neighbors may have been etc, over in Kensworth Phillis Calvert the actress lived at that time,she was a beauty as you may already know & she appeared in many films of the 1940/50s,just a daft little snippet Phil though you may like,regards Nipy
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Hi Nipy,
Thanks for that snippet of information (or should that be snipyt?). The only way I'm going to find anything would be through the local paper and/or library. Do you know what/where these would be?
Cheers,
Phil
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Hi PHIL,It's years since I lived in this area & I no long know what it is like now a days,but Dunstable is the biggest town near Studham (a few miles away)In the times we are thinking about,Studham ,Kensworth & Whipsnade would all have come under Dunstable .I know Dunstable has a large library & the local paper was called the Dunstable Gazette,sorry I'm not much help to you,keep hunting Phil your bound to find some thing,Cheers Nipy or if you like old Snipyt !
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Hi Phil, jan, Nipy and all
If the subject is still interesting after so long, I lived in Barwythe from 1947 to 1949 during the end period of the Comune
Nick99
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Hi Nick
Welcome to Rootschat :D
Phil was around earlier today, when he comes back I'm sure your post will be of interest.
I don't recall Barwythe but do remember walking in Studham woods as a child.
Jan ;)
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Hi Nick,
Do spill the beans! After consulting the local history society I've come to the conclusion that my spinster relative Frances Goater must have been some sort of a house keeper (perhaps for a later occupant) but I don't know for sure and even if that was the case I'd love to know what this commune was all about!
Thanks for taking the trouble to contribute,
Phil
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Hello Folks not been on RC for awhile but I'm still alive!!.... because of the secrecy & rumours of Barwythe House ....... like you Phil I'm still curious.......Nipy
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Hi All,
Thanks for all the expressions of interest.
The amount of time my eyes will tolerate on this screen is limited, so it would take a long time to give full details. Here are some initial details. If anyone wants more, tell me what specific questions are of interest.
Duration of Commune : 1946 ish to Dec 1949
Phil' spinster relative died long after this - so I guess she was either a member of staff or very rich
Kenneth Allsop was a member betwean 1948 and the first half of 1949. He wrote a book about it, now on Amazon at 0.01 pounds plus 2.80 pp. I will get it and report later in the year.
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Internet says it was owned by someone called (I think) Savage from pre-war to 1957. This may be an error. In c.1948 one of the founders told me it was owned by himself and his father-in-law. who had put up that £17,000. Maybe they only had a lease.
The Community was not hippy but it was mad. Even recently (2000ish) it is held in great respect by older villagers, who seem flattered that something even a little bit famous should have existed in their village. The village schoolmistress from Commune times gave it a good reference. But one youngster of 60 was very censorious, but did not say why.
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Welcome Nick 99, interesting to know there is a book about the place...would also be interesting to know what the write up is ....regards Nipy
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Thanks for that Nick
There seems to be a bit of confusion about the ownership of Barwythe. According to the Bedfordshire.gov site (archive section) the house was owned by Arthur William Gerald Bagshawe from 1945 to his death in 1964 but there is some doubt as to when exactly the purchase was made. The Dunstable history society was a bit vague but did refer to the house being owned at one time by a group formed by Kenneth Allsop ("slightly unconventional, I believe").
I'd be interested to know more about the nature of the slight unconventionality!
Regards,
Phil
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I lived in Studham from the 1940's to 1960's. Gerald Bagshawe was an alchoholic and was looked after by a nurse and butler. Might your rellie be the nurse?
If you would like I will look in the Gazette to see if there is anything on your rellies death.
Susan
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Thank you Susan for that insight - I would very much appreciate it if you could unearth any more information. For the record my relative was Frances Nora Goater who appears to have been known as Nora and who was born in Kent in 1898 and died a spinster in 15/5/1957 in Barwythe House.
Regards,
Phil
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Sorry to say no obituary notice in the "Dunstable Gazette". Just the following which you might already have.
Gazette 12/7/1957
Local Wills
Miss Frances Norah Goater of Barwythe House, Studham, who died on May 15 left 1091 gross. 1027 net. Probate has been granted to Lloyds Bank Ltd.
I did know the son of the butler/handyman at one time but not sure when other than the fifties.
Long time ago but almost sure he is still around. However his father may have come to Barwythe around the time of your rellies death. Will see what else I can dig up if you are interested but do not get much time for stuff due to family commitments etc.
We went scrumping and swimming in a pool as kids.!!!
Susan
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Thank you very much for looking Susan, I hadn't actually seen her will . It clearly confirms that she was resident in Barwythe House and a lady of independent means. Her sister who was a year older married a Canadian banker who became famous as the longest surviving WWI pilot who died in 2003 aged 106.
Her father died in Rouen in 1930 and her mother had died in 1919 which left her to fend for herself. It would be interesting to know more about how she fared. Thanks for the offer to keep looking.
I trust the apples tasted nice!
Phil