RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Twiglets on Friday 29 August 08 00:14 BST (UK)
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This is another brick wall which i'm trying to turn into a pile of rubble, this query will be much easier to trace.
Mary Ann Murphy (B) 23 October 1853 in Manchester, England,
Married William Frederick Heller, 22 August 1877 in St Andrew Ancoats, Manchester, Lancashire, England
I'm trying to find out what Mary Ann's mother's name was, her father's name was William Murphy
I don't have any details on Mary's parent's,
Just that they were from England,
Mary's mother's maiden name was Cashuene, only i'm not quite sure if it is, and would like some help with tracing this line, Please..
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do you have father William's occupation from the marriage cert
also were witnesses any relation?
Suz
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No sorry i don't.
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there are a couple of possibilities - but ages a little out
I'll maye post both of them
Suz
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Just a couple more questions
How do you know mary's father was William?
Also are you certain she was called mary Ann Murphy
on the marrage reg it shows William heller married Mary murphy or mary Adams
no Ann in the middle
also mary is just plain mary on census after she is married - 1881 she gives her age as 26
1891 she is 32????
how are you so certain of her baptism date???
Suz
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because she's my gr gr gr grandmother, and Mary's information was down in some documented notes that my grandma gave me.
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How do you know mary's father was William?, I do, because of the reason i just mentioned.
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Also are you certain she was called mary Ann Murphy, Yes because that's the name she was born with.
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Also are you certain she was called mary Ann Murphy, Yes because that's the name she was born with.
Hi Twiglets,
if you look at Free BMD you can see that there are 15 Mary Ann Murphys born 1853- 1858 Manchester - if your Mary Ann was born/baptised 23 October 1853 - she would be registered presumably in the December quarter1853- there are none. There are, however, 2 for the previous quarter if that is a Baptism date you are supplying.
The marriage on Family Search IGI says that she is 23 yrs in August 1877 which would work with your October 1853.
If you had that certificate, it may help as Suz says - witnesses, William's occupation; Mary Anne's address etc.
Unfortunately, sometimes family documented notes are not quite accurate - the certificate may help.
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It's difficult for you, because you're allowing it to be, i gave you all that i know about my Murphy's, but to make thing's much easier for you, will the information on when Mary ann Married help.
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Twiglets - you are kindness itself trying to make our difficult lives easier but no thanks we have it. :)
As I said previously , that information is on Family Search IGI - easily available online :)
Realistically it is the information on the certificate that is needed ???
Rest assured- there is no difficulty for us on Rootschat - many of us have access to the census records which we are more than willing to search through to help people such as yourself - of course - you know that from the hours of work which has already been done for you. ;D ;D ;D
good luck ;)
heywood
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Twiglets,
We are not allowing it to be difficult -you are making it difficult for us.
I have found a couple of mary Ann Murphys father William.
But you did not give us all the information you had -or should have had from sources which are freely available online.
I wanted to make it as certain as I could that I had found the correct mary Ann Murphy -that s why I asked questions
If you had looked at the marriage reg on FreeBMD you would have noticed she married just using the name Mary -no middle name
The extracted marriage record on the IGI gives her name as Mary -no middle name
After she married on the 1881 census -which you could have checked freely on family search she is listed as mary -no middle name
On 1891 census she is listed as mary -no middle name.
If you had checked these things you would have been able to post details that she was just mary on the census -marriage reg . Then we would have known we were looking for a mary or mary Ann with father William. These little things make a difference when you are trying to find a person.
I queried whether you were certain of her d.o.b., as her d.o.b. differs by quite a few years on the 1881 census and the 1891 census. Also there is no birth reg during the quarter you would expect her birth to be registered .
I am only trying (freely and willingly) to help you find the correct mary, and have spent some time looking for a near "match" to the information you had given. It is all too easy to follow an incorrect line.
I was asking how certain you were of your information - wondering where you had the information from. Your dates were so precise that I (quite wrongly) assumed you had a marriage certificate and possibly a birth certificate.
I was quite upset at the answers you gave to my queries - you must admit on reflection they were rather silly answers-which gave virtually no further information.
"How are you certain her name was mary Ann?"
reply -because that's the name she was born with
None of us are born with a name - we are baptised and given a name -a birth is registered in a name - both documentation which proves the full name. You should have said birth reg mary Ann - but known as Mary on marriage cert and census.
How are you certain her father's name is William
Reply - "because of the reason I just mentioned"
What does this mean?
Because it's the name he was born with??????
Does this mean that every mary Ann Murphy has a father called William ????? You must agree there is no logic in that.
Another reply you gave was "because she's my Gr gr gr grandmother " -So am I to assume all of your Gr gr gr grandmothers are called mary Ann Murphy??? No logic again
"The information was down in some documented notes my grandma gave me"
Were these just notes made by your grandma as she researched the family,? Are they names which were in a family bible? Are they from marriage or birth certs??
We are trying our best to help you with your research -and would have hoped you were working with us .
However you just seem to be making facetious replies -and I really think it is you making things difficult - rather than us allowing it to be.
I hope you have luck finding mary (or mary Ann) Murphy and I also hope you realise we are trying to help YOU - I'm sorry but I have spent far too much time on trying to help you . I hope some other RootsChatter manages to get sensible helpful answers to their queries and you find more information
Good luck
Suz
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This is all the information that i know and have, i can't help you any further, sorry.
Mary Ann Murphy (B) 23 October 1853 in Manchester, England,
Married William Frederick Heller, 22 August 1877 in St Andrew Ancoats, Manchester, Lancashire, England
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Twiglets,
You have NOT given us all the information you have
WHERE did you get the information from???
I know you say documented notes from your grandmother - but WHAT exactly do you mean by "documented notes"?????
As we can find no birth reg, no baptism -a marriage in the name of Mary
Yet you state "mary Ann Murphy married william frederick Heller" -what kind of document states this???
also, although you are unsure, you think mary's mothers maiden name was " Casheune" I cannot find anyone with this surname.
Where did you get this name from???
Come on - take another look at whatever documentation you have
We are trying to help you - do you understand how to check information ? Have you tried checking information????
Unless you answer our queries we cannot be certain which mary is most likely to be the correct one???
Suz
Where did your gran have this information from?
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This conversation is over, i will not be questioned about where i got my own family tree information from, i will kindly take my querie's elsewhere, or just be stuck on what i have provided you with, until get in touch with a cousin.
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How can i possibly give you information, when i don't know very much,
please stop stating that what i have given you, isn't good enough, because it's all i have.