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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: B17_Fan on Thursday 28 August 08 00:18 BST (UK)
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Is anyone tracing the brewer family in Bath?
We have a George Allen Brewer who was born in Bath in 1862.
If anyone has connections then it would be great to hear from you.
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Hi
A little late I know but I am tracing a Brewer Family in Bath Somerset, my bRewers have a predominance of males with the name John. I don't have a George 1862, but would be ionterested in what you have. My Johns are born in Bath.
John c 1720 married Mary Weeks
John 1760
John 1796 married Elizabeth Barrett
John Andrew 1828 married Emily Burge/Matilda Conduit/Priscilla ?
Emily had;
Emily 1857
Florence 1859
John 1861-1876
Elizabeth 1863 (my GReat Grandmother).
Matilda had;
Sidney 1868-1886
Andrew 1870
Louisa 1871
Ethel 1874
John then married Priscilla but had no children with her.
Does this connect anything you have?
Love to hear from you.
Clare
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B17
, As well as Clare's great post, have you checked the Rc Surnames List? Top of this page, 4th button from Left. You could add your names there also :)
charlotte
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Sorry to take over posting!
For Claire,
Marriage;
John Andrew BREWER, Dec 1879, Bath, 5c 1038
On the same page is Priscilla HUNTLEY
Trish :)
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Thanks for that. Have that one but good to confirm.
Clare
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Im a newbie so be gentle.
I just happen to be researching some medals and military information/photos etc and have to confess Im not getting very far. Im new to this type of research so probably ignorance on where to look isnt helping.
I have a Henry Brewer b 1879 and residing in Bath his military pay was sent to 6 Lyncombe Pl.
I also have a Kathleen Irene Brewer of 8 Osborne Rd, Lwr Weston, Bath - there in 1934 aged in her early 20s (her mother name not known deceased in about 1880)
A Constance Irene Kathleen Brewer b 1911 of Bath (married to a Shephard in her 20s)
I have many photos some which are puzzling me as to the relationships of those on the photos and also some documents.
If any of this is of any help to anyone please contact me and maybe I could learn something too
Regards
Rod
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
I can see a birth for a Kathleen?
June qtr 1909
Bromsgrove district vol 6c, page 328
Brewer, Kathleen Irene
Not seeing anything close on Somerset, Wiltshire or Gloucestershire.
A bit puzzled, though?
You said her mother died in 1880's, but Kathleen was in her 20's in 1934 (so born c1910?)?
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My post was maybe a little confusing.
I have a definite Constance Irene Kathleen Brewer, born Bath 1911.
I have a photograph of 2 children (about 5 and 7) with a young woman in her early 20s (I assume too young to be the mother) and stood behind an older gentleman (35/40) in 1st WW uniform. Hand written on the back it states 'Property of Kathleen Irene Brewer 8 Osborne Rd Lower Weston , Bath 1/10/34. I suspect this date is when the owner of the photo discovered it as the subjects of the photo appear to predate 1934 (esp given the 1st ww uniform)
The confusion deepens as I also have a hand written letter dated 1902 (no envelope sadly) to Katie in which it states that her Mother has now been dead some 20 years and the writer is pleased to hear her father has remarried and has children of his own????? you can see why Im tearing my hair out.
Thanks for replying
Rod
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Ah!
There is a marriage ;D
March qtr 1934
Wellington, Somerset district vol 5c, page 455
Brewer, Wilfrid
Braddick, Kathleen I
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I think what is adding to the confusion is the overlapping/switching of christian names.
Constance Irene Kathleen b1911 married a Shephard sometime prior to 1939
Kathleen Irene was residing at Osbourne Rd Bath when the photo was dated in 1934
I dont think they are one of the same. The hand written letter of 1902 is written to Katie, couldnt have been Constance (b1911)
Henry Brewer b 1879 couldnt have been married to the Mother of Katie (mentioned in the 1902 letter)
I have an additional Carte Vista of a Victorian lady (no name but with the other photos) which may be the Mother of Katie and the one who died c1880......if her names included Kathleen or Irene I think ill hit the whisky bottle lol....but thanks for your efforts
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BathBMD is a good place to start.
Constance's mother's maiden name was Woods.
Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1911
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BREWER Constance Irene Kathleen Batheaston Bath WOODS BEA/30/358
There is only one Brewer/Woods marriage, confirming her father was Henry (Harry) and mother Katie.
Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1908
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BREWER Henry WOODS Katie Elizabeth Oldfield Park Baptist Church, The Triangle Bath A31/1/018
They are in the 1911 census with their first child Reginald, aged 31 and 29, both born in Bath.
Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BREWER Henry Batheaston Bath ROBBINS BEA/17/095
(though there are other Brewers with Henry as a second name)
Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1881
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WOODS Kate Elizabeth Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath HAWKINS LW1/30/028
She was the daughter of James Wood and Mary Ann (Hawkins) (from FreeREG)
County Somerset
Place Bath
Church Lyncombe - St Mark Pr
RegisterNumber 1428
DateOfBirth * Sep 1881
BaptismDate 09 Oct 1881
Forename Kate Elizabeth
Sex F
FatherForename James
MotherForename Mary Ann
FatherSurname WOODS
MotherSurname
Abode Oak Street L B Road
FatherOccupation Groom
Notes
FileNumber 15102
He can also be found in the 1911 census, with wife Mary Ann, but it's a new wife, they've only been married 9 years and have had no children together.
This is presumably the marriage
Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1901
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WOODS James TELFORD Mary Ann Bath, Holy Trinity (Monmouth Place) Bath C2/5/02
So it looks like the letter was to Katie Woods (before she married Harry Brewer) and was replying to her reporting that her father had recently remarried. The "children of his own" is still confusing.
Perhaps there had been no previous contact since before James first married - quite likely if the writer's mother having been dead for 20 years was news.
David
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Wow! What can I say David but many thanks for this excellent information which I know gives answers to my questions once I have been able to figure out who is who etc.
To put things in context and perhaps for the benefit of anyone else reading these posts, here is what I have....this collection was all together from one household and obviously linked.
I have medals and army documentation for Henry Brewer, b1879 (Served 1914-19 Army Service Corps)
I have a letter from Yeovil dated 1902 to a 'Katie' commenting that her Mother has been dead over twenty years and Glad to hear your Father is comfortably married again for no one can say he has shown any disrespect to your dear Mother's memory after remaining single these years, for as he gets older and his children marry he will need someone to care for him. I didnt represent this very well in my original post.
I have a family group photograph of Male/Female and girl aged about 5 boy aged about 7. Whilst the man looks older by some years than the woman and is wearing 1902 pattern Army Uniform the reverse of the photo handwritten states 'Property of K I Brewer 8 Osbourne Rd, Lower Weston, Bath 4/10/34. I am still convinced that the photo predates 1934 by quite a few years.
I have a female officers side hat and Army documentation for Constance Irene Kathleen Shephard (nee Brewer), b1911 who enlisted in the ATS 1n 1939 and was discharged in 1946
I then have a plethora of documents and photographs and miniature medals for a Capt Ernest James Woods MBE b1883 in Walcot Bath and who had a long Army career from 1902 to 1946 (with a break between the wars). Amongst the photos are two photo postcards sent in 1907 & 1909 to his Father (& with love to his Mother) these were addressed to Mr J Woods, 8 Osbourne Rd Bath. Also in his papers it states that he has a sister 'Kate' and a sister 'Minnie'. The space for his mothers details is blank.
Just to throw in an additional spanner, Constance at some stage remarried in Dewsbury around 1950 to a Capt Armitage and I also have his silver identity bracelet.
I still havnt quite got my head round it all yet though your information will no doubt be of great help. At the moment im struggling with the photo but I suspect the handwritten date of 1934 is throwing me off track.
Many thanks again for the valuable information.
Rod
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I have a letter from Yeovil dated 1902 to a 'Katie' commenting that her Mother has been dead over twenty years and Glad to hear your Father is comfortably married again for no one can say he has shown any disrespect to your dear Mother's memory after remaining single these years, for as he gets older and his children marry he will need someone to care for him. I didnt represent this very well in my original post.
So it's Katie's mother whose been dead 20 years, not the writer's? That does complicate things. Katie (b.1881) and her brother Ernest (1883) and Minnie (1885) all had the same mother, so how can she have been dead for 20 years in 1902? She actually seems to have died in 1899, only a couple of years before her husband remarried! Everything else fits well.
She's in the census for 1891, with James and those three children and a son William aged 14 so born around 1776. But in the 1881 census James is single! He married Mary Ann Hawkins in Q2 1881 (in the Melksham district).
(Constance married Morgan George Shephard in 1934
Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1934
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BREWER Constance Irene Kathleen SHEPHARD Morgan George Bath, St John the Evangelist, Weston (Upper Bristol Road) Bath C23/3/075 )
David
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Can I just express my thanks to everyone who chipped in on this my first ever request and especially to David whos information tied everything together.
Just to recap the outcome was.
James Wood married Mary Ann Hawkins, she passed away in C1880/1 (I suspect in childbirth) There were in fact 3 children. Kate Elizabeth (b1881) The recipient of the 1902 letter stating her mother had died some 20 years earlier ...Ernest James b1883 and Minnie b ????......this relation ship is confirmed in Ernest's Army documents where he states the 2 sisters names and also a photo of himself and written on the back 'from your brother Ernie' David states there were no children from the second marriage of James to Mary Ann Telford in 1902 so its a mystery where Ernest and Minnie appear from given Kates Mother died in c 1881.
Kate Elizabeth went on to marry Henry Brewer b1879 and they had 2 children, Constance Irene Kathleen b1911 and Reginald b????....Constance went on to marry ? Shephard before 1939 and in 1950 remarried a Capt Armitage in Dewsbury West Yorkshire.
I feel fairly confident now that the group photo (see attachment) I have is of Henry Brewer and 2 of children together with his new wife. It is even more clear that the photo could not have been taken in 1934
Whilst there remains a couple of sketchy areas I am now at least able to link up the medals and documents I have.
Thank you all once again
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Hi David......just when you think its sorted eh......lol........let me include the actual quote from the letter to Katie. As you say everything else fit, maybe the letter writer just got it wrong and yet she emphasizes that James did not re-marry quickly (or was this Edwardian sarcasm.
You will be reading my new post by now but I think we are 95% there.
Anyway here is the quote from the letter to Katie
I have no doubt you do miss your dear Mother, for I do even though she has been in the Heavenly House for more than twenty years.
Glad to hear your Father is comfortably married again for no one can say he has shown any disrespect to your dear Mother's memory after remaining single these years, for as he gets older and his children marry he will need someone to care for him.
Be interested to see if you agree with me that the photo predates 1934.
Thanks again for your help
Rod
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Hi David
Sorry slightly confused and a bit more detail to share.
You said in your first post that James remarried to a Mary Ann Telford
He can also be found in the 1911 census, with wife Mary Ann, but it's a new wife, they've only been married 9 years and have had no children together.
This is presumably the marriage
Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1901
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WOODS James TELFORD Mary Ann Bath, Holy Trinity (Monmouth Place) Bath C2/5/02
So if they had been married 9 years in the 1911 census it was 1901/2 when they married. This ties in with the letter, I misquoted the writer (writing is very poor) she doesnt say 'after remaining single these years' she actually says 'after remaining single three years'. This would fit in with your assertion that his first wife died in 1899 .... not twenty years at all!
I think we are very close....maybve as close as we are going to get.
It is interesting that amongst all the collection of documents there is nothing about Minnie or William or Constances brother Reginald....but not sure I even want to go there lol.......
Regards
Rod
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Just to add slightly to my previous post.
I have now discovered in Ernest James Woods Army documents reference to his siblings, he states he has 2 sisters, Minnie and Kate. As there is no mention of William I think we have to asume he was deceased when these documents were completed in 1902.
I feel the photo is definitely James Wood with 2 of his 4 children and either his first or second wife.
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The change to "three years dead" does seem to clinch it. Perhaps the "20 years" refers to the writer's own mother, i.e. she meant, "I have no doubt you do miss your dear Mother, for I do [miss mine] even though she has been in the Heavenly House for more than twenty years".
Mary Ann Hawkins and her premarital son William were both born in Yeovil, according to the census, which is where the letter came from. So presumably the writer was a friend or relative of Mary Ann. FreeBMD gives several Mary Ann Hawkins born in Somerset in the right time frame, but none in the Yeovil district. If you want to trace that side of the family further you'll have to get her marriage certificate to see who her father was.
I have now discovered in Ernest James Woods Army documents reference to his siblings, he states he has 2 sisters, Minnie and Kate. As there is no mention of William I think we have to assume he was deceased when these documents were completed in 1902.
William married Ellen Davis in 1898, calling himself William Henry Hawkins Woods. He was still alive in 1911, and had a son called Ernest in 1908, so I would think he was on good terms with his (half?)brother. (James Woods was only about 15 when William was born but I suppose it is possible that he was his father.)
I feel the photo is definitely James Wood with 2 of his 4 children and either his first or second wife.
?? I thought it was Harry Brewer with his wife and two children. There's nothing to indicate James Woods was in the Army. He was over 50 at the start of WW1. His youngest children were the age in the photo in around 1790. Had that style of uniform come in by then.
You've now quoted the name on the back as Mrs K I Brewer. Does it really say that. I was assuming it was written by Constance Irene Kathleen, who had taken to using only her third and second names... written in 1934 but taken around the time of WW1. But perhaps it was written by her mother, with the I meant to be an E.
David
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Hi David
All would seem to fall in place as you say as regards the 3 years and yes I would agree with you it is how you interpret what was written about the 20 years and what you suggest makes sense.
Still seems rather odd that Ernest Woods fails to include William in his list of siblings but there may be reasons for it we will never know.
This photo still seems to be my Achilles heel and you may well be right. I had not taken James Woods age into account. The uniform being worn is 1902 pattern and the wearer is a Lance Corporal. The thing that led me to think it was James is that in a postcard sent by Ernest in 1909 of a group of soldiers, Ernest asks his dad if he recognizes anyone. I am enclosing a scan of the reverse of the picture so that you can see exactly what and how it was written. Based on the style of dress of those in the pic I still feel it predates 1934 and that Kate wrote this when she discovered the photo. Whilst I am willing to accept it may well be Henry Brewer & his wife Kate with Constance & Reginald, it only works if the date of 1934 is not when the pic was taken as by that time Constance would have been 23 and married.
Have a look at the scan and see if you agree that the way it is written doesnt prove it is the date of the photo
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Well, that's certainly a "Mrs". The second initial could well be an "E". The owner surely must be Katie Elizabeth Brewer nee Woods.
The date could certainly be when she acquired the card. If that style of uniform was not still in use in 1934 then the picture must have been taken earlier.
If it's not her husband and family then the only other possibility that occurs to me is Ernest James Woods and his family. He appears to have married in 1907, to either Mary Gilbert or Grace Johnstone, but I've no idea if he had any children.
David
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Hi again David
I agree with you.
Ernest was a full time soldier who enlisted in 1902 and I have no mention of any children, he wasnt discharged until 1946 (with a break between the wars) so I dont feel the family group has anything to do with him.
To me it makes more sense that it is Kate and Henry with their two children and the date on the back doesnt refer to the date of the picture. This would also make sense because Charlotte was born in 1911 in the picture im guessing she is maybe 3 or 4 so her father would be in uniform as he enlisted in 1914.
Can I once again thank you for all your help, with that initial information about Baths BMD I doubt I would have solved this so quickly.
Regards Rod