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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: imstillstanding on Wednesday 27 August 08 18:37 BST (UK)
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Have just been told this a real weepie :'(
Julie x
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I won't say what this is about, I do not watch the progamme but there is a person who is on ITV every morning and gives away all what is going to happen on the evenings soap or programme.
I cannot believe for one minute that Jerry Springer did not have this information prior to this programme.
I'll comment further once the programme has been shown.
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One of the TV listings mags says what this is about, but, like Dancing Master, I won't spoil it. It's going to be very sad, but as it concerns close ancestors, I'm also surprised he didn't know.
Betty
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I think it was a very moving programme.
Whilst it's right the relatives were very close ones, I think Jerry made it clear that his parents had never spoken about much of their history.
And his cousin told him, clearly, that although both their mothers knew what had happened to their own mothers - though not perhaps in detail - they had never spoken of it.
The research that was done in finally pinning down all the horrific Nazi documentation was evidently something which was greatly facilitated by the programme.
And his final commentary, about the strength of the family, and the part of each of us in a long chain, speaks very much to me about how I feel about the research I do in my family history.
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Interesting episode - even though it was easy to guess the kind of story that was going to unfold.
Make me appreciate more the fact that I met & knew all my grandparents and most cases got to hear their stories and details first hand.
Shane
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I found Jerry's emotion very believable. As his parents had left Germany before his grandparents were killed, they could probably only guess what had happened to them. In the circumstances it doesn't surprise me that they never spoke of their fears to their children. I could only guess what it must have been like to imagine your elderly mother being left to die in a concentration camp.
It was all very moving. So far all three episodes in this series have been gripping - and all very different. I was looking at the rest of the programmes, and I think they should cover a wide range of backgrounds. If they're all this good I'll be well satisfied!
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I can understand that he didn't have information about his grandparents, that it was too painful to talk about, but he knew very little about the holocaust. I find that odd.
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I agree it was very moving and had me 'removing dust from my eyes'.
I can completely understand why this was never talked about by Jerry's parents. Even if he knew roughly what had happened, to be faced with such clear evidence and to stand in the places where it happened must have been incredibly emotional for him. He may have known vague details about the Holocaust, but when you're put in that situation it becomes incredibly real.
What a fantastic series so far :)
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i can understand that jerry knew very little about his family. my dad asked me to do the familytree for him and i said yes. I had to go back to him a few days later, i felt really guilty having to ask him this question. "dad, what were your mum and dads names as i don`t know?", Both his parents died well before i was born and they were never mentioned, and i never asked. He died six months later and never got to see the tree i have now compiled. :'( :'(
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Another emotional rollercoaster ride tonight which I thought I was ready for after seeing David Baddiel's heartbreaking journey to Europe. What I wasn't expecting were the several flights to safety through Europe of the Springer family as we were taken farther back to the anti semetic movement of the 1880's.
Thank goodness the producers gave us a heart warming emotion at the end otherwise I'd still be numb with shock.
Rena
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only saw parts of it, but had "dusty eyes" - it just shows how quickly we can be unrooted and not know- I'm sure Jerry springer knew of the holocaust at least in general but to be able to personalize it gives it a different feeling - don't know who the woman was who showed him the photos of the manor house and the gas vans -but she certainly told the story with truth and with empathy for him. I would wonder that his parents may have known but not wanted to know for sure. i know of a friend how didn't know her one grandmother had been in a concentration camp. it was never ever talked about.
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Despite the low opinion I have of Jerry Springer's TV show, I thought he came over as intelligent with very human emotions.
The sheer number of victims of the Holocaust can make it difficult to comprehend, but the personal histories of people who suffered bring home how terrible it was.
DEAR GOD, NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN!
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Of course Jerry would have little concept of the horrors of the extermination of the millions.He was born in the middle of WW2!! and then was taken to the US.
Both OH and myself were in our "teens" during that period and only saw the b/w cinema news reels showing the liberation of the Concentration Camps and not until the Nuremberg Trials (1945/1949) did more horrific details emerge.
We were still mourning our own dead and trying to rebuild a country where food was still rationed and many areas were bomb sites.
In the 80's we visited our Daughter and SIL in Hildershein and she took us to the site of the most notorious camp..Bergen Belson. The whole area .had been razed and memorials had been erected...totally eerie and bleak but we were left with the impression that the attempt had been made to sanitize and wipe out any memory of the evils which had taken place there.(The first mass exterminations had started there in 1933.the insane,any who were deemed unfit and intellectual opposition)
To OH and myself the most telling scene was Jerrys visit to Lodz, walking down the railway platform and see the actual carriages ,still as they were.waiting for the next consignment,with simple walls of the hands trying to claw their way out. Then to the camp site , cleared but untouched, just left desolate...far more telling than plaques.. But then the Poles suffered as many and more , terrible atrocities than other Europeans.
Sadly as much as we ask that anything comparable should never happen again.. it has and is,daily, around the world.
Spring
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I agree it was very moving and had me 'removing dust from my eyes'.
Just visiting a monument to a Nazi extermination camp in Kiev (Babi Yar) made me feel physically sick,
This struck a chord with me. When my son, a British army seargent, was stationed in Germany at Bergen a couple of miles up the road from the Bergen-Belson camp, we went for a visit and I too felt sick at both the film footage and the life size photos of the heaps of hundreds of bodies, being shifted by a bull dozer.
In the museum there were things like a baby's shoe, locks of hair and false teeth, masses of photographs of unknown now dead people.
In the camp arena outside you can hear no birds or insects and nothing grows on the perimeter, it is just grey dust. Everywhere is eerily silent, even though the camp was quite close to the main road, traffic could not be heard.
Apparently, there, the butcher and baker in Bergen made a stash of money from the Nazi's supplying rotten meat and stale bread to the camp. The film footage showed the Brits and American liberation soldiers lining up the townspeople including the Lord Mayor and making them look at the remains of the dead, when they denied knowledge of what was happening on their own doorstep in the camp. Of course we have to remember that though the vast majority of inmates were Jewish, there were also Gypsies, black people, communists, the mentally insane or feeble minded, disabled people, Polish people, Russian people and gay people, and not forgetting ordinary Germans who opposed Hitler.Worst of all little innocent children and babies. They all had their own special badge to wear so the guards knew instantly what they were.
I balled my eyes out whilst I was there and couldn't stop thinking about it for weeks. The film was recorded in several languages, shown at different times. I read recently that German school children have a compulsory visit to one of the camps as part of the curriculum so that such atrocities will never happen again. Thank goodness the main contenders, the camp commandant, known as the Beast of Belsen, and others, including several women, were were made to shift rotting dead bodies by hand. After a war crimes trial they were all hung.
Listening to 'Tracing Your Roots' yesterday on Radio Four, it was apparent that as early as 1937 the Jewish population, who were able, through money, were desperately fleeing Germany, mostly to the US but many did come to the UK, but they had to leave parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles behind.
If they, themselves knew then what was happening how come we in the UK didn't realise that there was a reason for this sudden influx of immigrants? It is a mystery to me how this country can say, despite the spy planes flying over Germany, they never knew about the camps until virtually the end of the war.
I'll get off my soap box now.
Pennine.
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Here's the BBC timeline for Hitler's rule - as it's in chronological order you are being deprived of hindsight.
However, there is no mention of the hardships ordinary people experienced which Hitler used in his campaign to oust the government and in his rhetoric he also maligned Jewish businessmen thus creating the racist division he sought.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/launch_tl_persecution_genocide.shtml
Don't forget at the time the Nazis were showing film of Jews being happily re-settled. And as for photographs from spy planes, I wouldn't think twice about fuzzy pictures showing rows of barrack type buildings which looked just like the rows of wooden chalets we holidayed in.
Rena
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What a desperately sad show.
Only relief was at he the end when he met a descendant of his grandmother's sister
Bob
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Here's the BBC timeline for Hitler's rule - as it's in chronological order you are being deprived of hindsight.
However, there is no mention of the hardships ordinary people experienced which Hitler used in his campaign to oust the government and in his rhetoric he also maligned Jewish businessmen thus creating the racist division he sought.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/launch_tl_persecution_genocide.shtml
Don't forget at the time the Nazis were showing film of Jews being happily re-settled. And as for photographs from spy planes, I wouldn't think twice about fuzzy pictures showing rows of barrack type buildings which looked just like the rows of wooden chalets we holidayed in.
Rena
Thankyou for providing this link - a very sobering account. No more words needed.
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This was very moving.
I find it chilling that such precise records were kept and can still be accessed.
There must be many who do not know what happened to their family.
Is there a way for the records to be searched without the help of the BBC?
Kooky
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Hello Kooky
In reference to your question concerning Holocaust records I have found that at the Camps in Germany there are excellent research facilities provided.
I recall at Belsen and Dora there are large book indexes of names where one can look for the victims and with staff waiting to help with enquiries. Neuengamme which is a huge complex just outside of Hamburg has an extensive library.
Many of the old camps survive as public reminders of the genocide. The presentation is excellent. Well researched with no attempt to excuse or justify the events- the staff are always helpful, and the settings speak for themselves. If anyone is visiting Germany its worth a couple of hours of your time to visit one of these places- there are a lot available - the experience is very humbling, shocking and upsetting but you will come away understanding far more than tv can offer.
At Bad Arolsen there is an international tracing service available for victims of the Reich. These records have only been recently opened to the public and will prove to be very significant to anyone's research. email[at]its-arolsen.org
Thats the email address on the website for the records. There are 50 million of them.
I live in Germany and maybe able to offer a bit of guidance about the Death camps or places of the Reich in terms of visiting
kind regards
Sue
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I've had my own private weeps when I've discovered tragedies in my own family, but I can't begin to understand the sorrow that Jerry Springer must have felt when he learned the fate of his ancestors. I think he probably had a suspicion that this is what happened - when Jewish people in Germany went missing at that time, it usually only meant one thing - but the reality still comes as a shock.
A very moving programme, and we should all be reminded of the horrors of that time, in the hope that it will never happen again.
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There must be many who do not know what happened to their family.
Is there a way for the records to be searched without the help of the BBC?
Kooky
You could try the Central Database of Shoah Victims Names http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_9E, which looks useful for anyone researching Holocaust victims.
Glen
I was shocked to find the surnames of my Hannoverian g.g.grandparents surnames listed, doubly so because my German research has only found ancestors in Catholic and Ev. Lutheran church records. There's nothing to indicate whether these particular listed people were gypsies, or so called 'idiots', or whether they'd been caught helping 'undesirables' to escape. Upon reflection I had heard that the Nazis went back through generations of family records to 'cleanse' the population of any Jewish genepool.
Rena in Lancashire
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I can understand that he didn't have information about his grandparents, that it was too painful to talk about, but he knew very little about the holocaust. I find that odd.
The Holocaust i think everyone knows what a 'camp' was but do we all really know what really happened there? i didnt know all the details until last night, i didn't know how they gassed people, (i knew they were gassed and starved)
it was very moving the bit about Poland where they sent them there to filter out jews from the rest so to speak,but did anyone ever return wrongly sent there in the first place?
it hit home the Poland bit, becasue my Grandfather was from the Ukraine i belive he was sent to Poland and then sent to work elsewhere, he was not Jewish he was of Greek Orthodox Religion, but he was not allowed to practice this religion. I know he did work somewhere but where, and what type of work i do not know.
he came to the UK in 1948 as a dispalced citizen, i would be interested insearchign Holocaust records myself for his family but i do not know how to or even where to begin.
his mother also survived and was alive in 1955 but i do not know her name.
again it was too painful to talk about and now my Grandfather has died there is nobody to ask.
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Re Rena's comment about the type of people sent to the Death Camps-these included besides Jews or people with Jewish blood; Germans who were Mentally Ill not just deficient, the Physically sick, opposition parties such as Socialists, Communists etc. The camps were opened shortly after Hitler came to power in 1933 to remove any opposition parties or indeed anyone who didn't agree with his actions.
Here is a link for the International Tracing Service at Bad Arolsen
http://www.its-arolsen.org/de/system/welcome/welcome/index.html - this is in English.
I know it is very hard for those affected to open up potentially tragic research records - some of the things are stomach churning but having German connections in our family we have found it better to challenge these horrors out of respect to those who suffered. In doing so not only have we had to look at the Holocaust aspects but also to delve into the Nazi records and accept the fact that a few ancestors were members. The thing is with family history one had to deal with the bad bits.
All the best
Sue
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It was all very tragic - but very predictable as to what it would all be about.
I was interested in his gt grandfather and the persecution in the 1880s and I realised that I know absolutely nothing about the place of the Jewish people in German society in the past. I would have liked to have learnt more about that.
Carole
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An aside on the story -
The evil evil racist, Henriki, from whom Jerry's g'g'grandfather in Poland called for help went on to Africa, Namibia it was, and destroyed the highly literate and cultured people there, with exactly the same methods as employed later, the blueprint for the holocaust.
In Namibia their holocaust is remembered also. It is a story equally as harrowing.
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One is better able to understand the position of the state of Israel which is under permanent threat of destruction by people of another religion. One should also know that in Germany and Austria there are large Neo-Nazi movements still today and their followers are present in Britain.
Pogroms of Jews took place for centuries in Russia and Poland before WWII. At one time they were all expelled from England and only returned 300 years later under Oliver Cromwell.
They were persecuted viciously in Spain under Ferdinand & Isabella and were virtually obliged to convert to Christianity.
Great Britain took in by far the greatest proportion of Jewish refugees from Hitlerism and they have been very beneficial to our land.
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A very moving programme
Yes must do some dusting tonight I could hardly see the programme for it
Willow x
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Thank you for information re searching records. I have no family interest I just thought there might be people who did.
Kooky
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Thank you for information re searching records. I have no family interest I just thought there might be people who did.
Kooky
like me
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As someone who had family die in Auschwitz and in Dachau, and some family who escaped and knowing the information that was made available via the Jewish Organisations, and the death certificates that were issued after the war to the families, and the compensation that was paid out by Germany to the victims families (the family money is still in a Bank in Germany because no one in the family will touch it they call it the "blood money")
I do not believe he did not know that his grandmothers died in those circumstances. I still believe this programme is contrived as an entertainment, hence the tearful people we have read about on this postings.
They want to try and cope with it with many more family members involved.
One of my older friends is 85 who came out on the Kinder Train one of the last to reach Britain.
Sorry but I don't believe him at all.
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I got the impression that he did know the fate of his ancestors, but he didn't know the precise details. I don't think there is anyone alive of Jerry Springer's age that isn't aware of what went on in Europe in the 1930's and 1940's.
If you think the programme is contrived, why watch ? Is this discussion going to be like last weeks', where politics overtook a discussion on a programme about genealogy ?
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have already said I do not watch it, I have gone on the prior release in the press. I wouldn't give Jerry Springer houseroom, but that is a side issue, the facts are it played on the viewers emotions and implied he didn't know where his grandmother ended up.
It is contrived, it gives the impression that these people simply walk into libraries and various venues and immediately surprise surprise they find all this material, they do not state that they have had researchers working for many months on it and that the result is a contrived one which anyone who has researched their family tree (and I don't mean using Ancestry etc) knows full well it takes a long time .
To my mind it gives the wrong impression to people starting out to do their family tree.
i
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As I said I just couldn't believe he appeared to know so little about the Jewish Holocaust.
Similarly Boris Johnson must have known more about his Turkish g' grandfather than he appeared to. See the last line of this article, just above references
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal_Bey(http://)
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I have already said I do not watch it, ...
the facts are it played on the viewers emotions and implied he didn't know where his grandmother ended up.
It is contrived, it gives the impression that these people simply walk into libraries and various venues and immediately surprise surprise they find all this material,
To my mind it gives the wrong impression to people starting out to do their family tree.
i
Apparently, the fact is you did not watch the programme.
The fact is that Springer did voice his opinion on what he thought the fate of his relatives were, but the fact is, he got the place name wrong.
The fact is that the voice over did introduce the professional researchers.
Another fact is; I thought I knew more about that period than I actually did... for instance , to list just one fact: I hadn't known about the gas lorries ..
I hope I haven't been too political.
Cheers,
Rena
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It is possible that he didn't know, on a personal level, what happened to his grandmothers.
My great grandfather was a PoW in Germany/Poland. We know what camp he was in but other than that there is a lot we don't know because it wasn't spoken about. Not quite as bad as the concentration camps, but an example.
I don't know much about my grandfather either, simply because he was rarely spoken of.
If Jerry's family did not speak to him of the fate of his parents, there is no reason why he should have known the full extent of what happened to HIS ancestors (on a personal level). You also have to take in to consideration the fact that he was taken to the very places where his grandmothers were either murdered or left to die.
Hope I haven't expressed too much of an opinion this week...
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your all entitled to your own opinions,
if only the programme was longer they might have concentrated on the male lines also.
he already knew their names so, it didn't help me with seraching abroad albeit my area is Ukraine and his Germany, but then the programme isn't made to help people with their searches
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The programme last night was very sad, but Jerry Springer stated quite specifially that he knew why his grandmothers died, but not where, when, etc. Can you imagine what his parents thought when he or his siblings turned around and asked why their grany's were not still alive. I personally believe his parents told him nothing.
I visited Auschwitz earlier in the year and cannot contemplate how it must feel to know your family were involved, on either side - it beggars belief. If I am being honest I am wondering moreso how every single celebrity just happens to have a huge shock waiting for them.
If they got hold of a celeb who desended from farmers and coal miners, I wonder whether that episode would be shown at all...
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i saw Tony Robinson at WDYTYA live his family weren't anything special, obviously i don't mean special as they were special to him i mean spectacular (admittedly i only saw part one)
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The programme Who Do You Think You Are is entertainment.
In the same way that any entertainment programme, or, indeed, film, play etc is constructed is to tell a story in an interesting and engaging way.
I think this particular subject has proved, perhaps surprisingly to the BBC, a very popular and emotive one. I am a member of the BBC Family History board, and you only have to see the increase in new members after the new series WDYTYA to see that many people are attracted to finding out about their families.
In the creation of the programme there are therefore planned surprises, and situations manipulated to appear simpler than they actually are. However, to be fair, the programme does not claim to be (and indeed isn't) a guide to How To Do Your Family History. If it were, I'd be the first to agree it fails completely.
I don't hold any brief for Jerry Springer - or indeed any of the other celebrities involved. However, it is interesting to see them explore their families, and is also very informative, often, with regard to the history involved.
I am very moved, as I know a lot of Rootschatters are, by the hardships and evident determination of my ancestors, and following up my Family History is an absorbing hobby which has contributed much more to my life than I ever anticipated.
The Jerry Springer programme was watched by my partner and myself, who found it very moving and educational, and at the dinner table tonight, my 17 year old son, who watched it later last night, was telling his sister and stepbrother about the details which he had learned, and how he wanted to follow up the history about Stalin's treatment of dissidents. We also discussed the Cultural Revolution in China and the casualties from that.
What more can you ask from an entertainment programme, watched on BBC 1 by millions of viewers, that an interest in history should be encouraged?
More power to its elbow is what I say.
If I want to find out how to do Family History and how complicated it is, then I have many friends (I hope I can call you all that!) on Rootschat to tell me how.
:)
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Thank you Igor, for your thoughtful comment.
meles
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Yes I thought it very moving. His cousin said to him something like 'they knew' meaning what had happened -but she just meant their fate I would imagine, not the specifics.
I accept that the series is 'entertainment' but I can't describe last night's programme as that.
I also think that no one watching would believe that anyone could just walk into these places and find the information immediately - we know that there must be lots of preparation. I would imagine, and hope, that for direct descendants of the victims, those records are readily available.
I was astonished at the detail in the records available- utility bills!
There are accusations being levelled here at his ignorance but we don't know why the family didn't pursue the details.
My own father never ever discussed his wartime experiences in Burma. My mum used to say that he had nightmares/bad dreams etc but never would he discuss it with her.
Similarly my father in law wouldn't discuss his experiences in Europe. We do have a letter he sent where he says how sorry he was for the 'poor Germans who have been left with nothing' just wandering the streets carrying a case with all their belongings in because everywhere has been destroyed. When he came home though - he would not talk about it.
Sometimes the knowledge of horror is enough- people didn't want to find out more.
I suppose as for Jerry Springer, the BBC approached him and for his own reasons he agreed. His emotions were though , I am sure, genuine. It is one thing doing a paper exercise and another actually being there.
heywood
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I'm amazed that someone can comment on a programme that they haven't seen ::)
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It is possible that he didn't know, on a personal level, what happened to his grandmothers.
My great grandfather was a PoW in Germany/Poland. We know what camp he was in but other than that there is a lot we don't know because it wasn't spoken about.
I agree - my uncles never spoke of what they suffered in WW2, although one was taken prisoner, and another watched close mates dying. Both refused to discuss it. I think this is a natural defence mechanism for people who have suffered extreme atrocities.
And why do so many people feel they have to comment that they don't like Jerry Springer on a personal level (or last week that they had no time for Boris Johnson)? Presumably the people are chosen for their interesting family histories, not for their likeability! In any case, most of us know nothing about these 'celebrities' - just the media hype - so we could be surprised by the reality.
I think the quality of the programmes is improving each series - just hoping the rest of this series is as good as these first three.
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On every thread about WDTYA there are complaints that the research appears "as if my magic" - but (having watched every episode in all the series) I think that this series the BBC have been a lot more open about the pre-research being done.
In the first couple of series they did try to create an exciting "discovery" to make the programmes more entertaining. But since then and especially in the three programmes so far this series, I don't think they have pretended to film people going through papers and "discovering" the entries they are searching for. And the experts generally introduce themselves and say something like "I have been searching and have been able to find this for you". So - no pretence, and an admission they have researchers doing the leg-work.
I think it makes the show more interesting rather than less - as it means they don't have to film the long build-up to the discovery and therefore have more time for the story itself.
I have loved all of the three programmes so far - and all for different reasons. Patsy - because I learnt about some sources I didn't already know in relation to criminals and vicars. Boris because he made me laugh, and now Jerry Springer. because - although it told us about the holocaust we think we know the details of - it looked at the early stages - the ghettos, the gas vans and the show camp- the detail of which is sometimes forgotten amongst the large scale horrors that came later. Thinking about what was going through the minds of the first few soldiers/buerocrats etc when they were given those jobs - and then actually got on and did them....really makes me wonder.
Milly
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When I started my family tree investigations a couple of years ago, my uncle who is in his mid 70s could not tell me his Grandmother's first or maiden name as she had died the year he was born (in England!) and he could not ever remember her being spoken about. I get the impression that previous generations were very private about grief and a dead loved one was rarely mentioned especially to children. So I can imagine that if relatives were lost through such tragic circumstances as Jerry Springer's grandmothers, it is quite likely that nobody would have ever spoken the words.
Kate.
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I didn't know my living grandparents first names until I was in my teens, probably because they were a far more formal generation. The were simply grandma and grandpa. Even when I did know I would never have dreamt of calling them by name.
I still didn't know the first name of my maternal grandfather until I started family history in my 30s as he died before I was born
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Well I cried my eyes out. :'( :'(
As a descendant of Jewish family I understood how he felt.
Sometimes it takes someone who is willing to do some research to find out just what really did happen as our ancestors are often unwilling to talk about such things.
I think it is a wonderful programme,famous or not.
Tina :D
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have already said I do not watch it, I have gone on the prior release in the press.
When the source is readily available, why rely on second-hand opinions?
It is contrived, it gives the impression that these people simply walk into libraries and various venues and immediately surprise surprise they find all this material, they do not state that they have had researchers working for many months on it
Had you watched the programme you would have known that your opinion was incorrect.
I still believe this programme is contrived as an entertainment, hence the tearful people we have read about on this postings.
They want to try and cope with it with many more family members involved.
This comes across as rather arrogant and insulting to other Rootschatters.
I don't think your posts on this thread have been as constructive as those you have posted on other topics.
Philip
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I agree with you Philip.
Kooky
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I just wish I could have watch it and the one on Boris, cant see them here down under >:( and the BBC iplayer doesnt work here either - perhaps they will come out on DVD
Ed
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I think you just need to discover torrents, Ed ! ;)
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At the beginning of the program Jerry Springer said he thought both his grandmothers had died at Auschwitz.
In fact neither was there. The Germans kept very good records, and we were able to see the deportation order for the ghettos, the order to be ‘expelled’, and which camps they ended up at, and when and how they died.
The station and cattle truck displayed to show how it would have been.
He also wanted to know about his family before the war, and we learned about his great grandparents, the shoe shop, and how prosperous they were.
This is what makes the program interesting. It is really a slice of social history seen through the eyes of someone’s family history, which should not be confused with genealogy. One of the most interesting things to me, was how difficult it was for the Jews to leave Germany and that they could only come to Britain if sponsored, or by advertising themselves available for positions of work as servants in British households. America and other European countries were more restrictive. The many newspaper adverts revealed this.
The value of the program is that is shows areas of research that we may not have known of. In this case, the very meticulous German records that still exist.
Frankly, I am not really interested in any of the celebrities’ family history per se, but through Barbara Windsor, we learned something of the match girls of the East End of London, through Robert Lindsay, (both previous series) something of Gallipoli, and through Boris Johnson, something about the history of Turkey, which I was completely ignorant of.
Finally, I did not know my grandmother’s real name until some years after her death when I was a teenager, even though she lived with us for the last few years of her life. She was always ‘Grandma’ to us.
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(Nick, no torrents for WDYTYA unfortunately ... well there wasn't up till last week. Who knows how long we'll have to wait till they show it here in Australia.)
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Dave- you are so right in your summing up!
I keep thinking about it- having watched it again with my husband who had missed it- the records which were kept were so chilling -making the killing, not at all indiscriminate but meticulously planned.
Seeing the list of clothes - the galoshes and the straw hat - was like reading a will, the personal details so vivid.
My daughter and I were both saying we would have liked to find out who Miss Goldberg wa who sponsored them. Presumably she was just a benefactor, but it would have been good to just know that she was a .... and lived ... etc.
I wonder will Jerry Springer visit his family in Israel? I'd like to think so.
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I saw Jerry Springer interviewed about the programme and he did say that the programme makers had managed to trace his family back to the 1700's, but had obviously focussed on the stories that made 'good tv'. Family trees to me are all about finding out about social history and making it more personal/real. I definitely learnt info about the Holocaust that I didn't already know and was reminded by Jerry's story how this utterly horrific event happened in a Western 'civilised' country within the lifetime of many people still alive today. The website also gave me a few new pointers for my own research as my husband's family is descended from German Jews.
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I really think that, the programme was deeply touching and very informative, i learned a few things
I'm sure his emotion's were genuine, know one could act that well.
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I have always thought that the BBC would have researchers working on each celeb's tree otherwise it would take many months if not years to get just one programme together.
They would also have to make sure there would be no really bad shocks causing the celeb to walk out midway through the programme.
As for the holocaust, my knowledge of it has always been from what I have read in books or seen on film. I hadn't realised the first gassings had been done in a van. What must have those poor people thought when it started up and got moving I shudder to think.
I would defy anyone who has been to the places where members of their family have died so tragically, not to break down and cry.
Jean
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Esther Ratzen next week, she was froma priveleged upbringing she says and she has a shock in store, i wont reveal it but i read it in the tv mag.
looking forward to it but why do ITV have to put a programme on at 9 that i want to watch too ?
i dont have sky plus
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It's that old ratings war they have. But quite often the BBC itself has programmes on one of it's other sides that I also want to watch. Makes you wonder.
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It was a very moving episode, what is really sad is that genocide is still going on and far more recently. In 1994 800,000 Tutsis were murdered in Rwanda. Bosnia and Dafur even more recently suffered ethnic cleansing. Even though it is brought so vividly to the worlds attention still it goes on.
Many times I have said and heard it said about the Holocaust how could it have happened and yet nothing really changes. The sad fact is only a very small percentage of people get roused enough to try and change things and the rest of us including me sit in our little worlds not oblivious to what is going on and frustrated by what we see but powerless to do anything. If we donate money it often ends up in the wrong hands and could be used against those you were trying to help.
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looking forward to it but why do ITV have to put a programme on at 9 that i want to watch too ?
It's repeated on BBC2 Thursday nights 7-30 p.m.
Yippee means I can still watch without having to remember to record.
Jean
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(Nick, no torrents for WDYTYA unfortunately ... well there wasn't up till last week. Who knows how long we'll have to wait till they show it here in Australia.)
There is a Torrent up for this episode at the moment. I won't post the details (BBC copyrights and all that...) but its on www.sumotorrent.com (http://www.sumotorrent.com) if you do a search for Jerry Springer. I haven't tried it, so no guarantees of accuracy
Glen
I think the BBC are paying the Aussies back for letting Channel 5 have Neighbours ! ;) ;D
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Just a couple of things about WDYTYA.
Firstly, the programmes aren't made by the BBC, but by a company called 'Wall to Wall' who pay the researchers and arrange the journeys the celebs take.
The BBC just buys the programmes, although the BBC Family History web pages (not the message board) have a lot about WDYTYA and links to topics related to the programmes. It does look as if all our complaints that they make it look too easy have borne fruit because there is now a section entitled 'How we did it' which gives more info on the archives etc in each programme
http://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/new-stories/jerry-springer/how-we-did-it_1.shtml
It actually says his parents never talked about it.
ps JS was born in a Tube station during the Blitz!
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It actually says his parents never talked about it.
Perhaps it was never talked about because of "guilt" that they escaped but their mothers didn't. Survivor guilt syndrome?
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I have been really moved by all the programmes about previous celebrities, particularly those who are/have Jewish backgrounds. I suppose it is because their stories are going to be more interesting to the general public, but WDYTYA does seem to concentrate on Jewish celebs. This week Esther Rantzen and in previous programmes we've had Jerry Springer, David Baddiel, Stephen Fry, Nigella Lawson to name a few. Are we going to get a similar story regarding David Suchet I wonder.
Lizzie
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i know its repeated, thank you :)
but i wanted to watch it when it first comes out! so to speask
anyhow perhaps i could watch the other programme on iplayer (or the equivilent) ???
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hello, sorry if this has already been mentioned
but i would have loved the programme to have traced the MIss Goldberg who paid the £50 for the family to escape to Britain.....
it was a very good programm and very moving.....i am not a fan of Jerry Springer normally
Debz
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yes Miss Goldberg would have been good, if Jerry met with some of her descendents
Hi Debz how are you?
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The tragic story of those who went to the camps is now well known. The brave souls (and there were many) who defied the Nazi governemt and helped them is less well known. It would have been good to see that.
Also the fact that the disabled, gypsies, gays, and other "undesirables" were also subject to the wicked regime.
meles
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but i would have loved the programme to have traced the MIss Goldberg who paid the £50 for the family to escape to Britain.....
I said that to my husband at the time, but I think the paperwork said she was aged about 30, and with no clues other than her address it might have been difficult. It did occur to me that for the Springer family to have known her, (unless she just sponsored a random family), she mightt have come from Germany herself.
Toni -
Maybe Miss Goldberg didn't have any descendants. ::) ::)
Lizzie
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Toni -
Maybe Miss Goldberg didn't have any descendants.
Perhaps she was caught.... :'(
meles
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I have a feeling that the Jewish community, also perhaps the Red Cross and other organisations, advertised for sponsors.
Vague memories.................
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Hiya Meles ,
i got the impression that Miss Goldberg was already in London, paid for the Springer family but (maybe she belonged to a Jewish society which was helping more Jews to escape).....am i wrong about that ?
Debz
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yeah Silvery
that sounds like a possible too.
just curious about the woman and wanted to know if they had even tried to trace her. :)
Debz
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Debz - Yes Miss Goldberg was in London, they showed her address on the sponsor form.
Lizzie
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Missed that. Glad she was OK. There were so many here and in Germany (and elsewhere) that tried to help. And so many in Nazi occupied areas that laid down their lives to save others.
meles
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Yes I said earlier that my daughter and I would have hoped that Miss Goldbergs identity would have been explored a little more.
I think people just sponsored - no need for family ties etc. Somehow, I would have thought that with all the records available, something could have been found out about her.
As for the Jewish heritage celebrities, maybe it's just that most of our celebrities have that tradition.
I know they did Graham Norton, who had Irish protestant tradition but it would be good to get someone with Irish Catholic tradition and find their way around those records. Ease of access must have something to do with their choices too.
Looking forward to Wednesday!
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Also the fact that the disabled, gypsies, gays, and other "undesirables" were also subject to the wicked regime.
these were mentioned but obviously not being related to Jerry Springer werenot followed.
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Re Miss Goldberg obviously to sponsor someone £50 to enable their track ito Britian was a big thing, and the horror of what was happening affected most people deeply. but would Miss Goldberg have to have come from some well off family ? or the like to be able to afford £50 in wartime Britain?
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Hiya Toni...how are you ;)
i would have thought she had money...obviosly from a Jewish background , Jews who had several generations of living in England ??
Without that £50 the whole history would have been changed....THAT £50 would be about £1400 now
Debz
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wow- that's a lot of money for someone you don't know- what a good woman!
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I am an avid watcher of WDYTYA and was just overwhelmed after watching the Jerry Springer episode. I have just become a father for the first time and I am appalled at the sheer depravity and evil that human beings are capable of. We remember the Holocaust and say it must never happen again but it does and our government turns a blind eye. I just wish there was something effective that we as individuals could do.
I fear for our next generation and the world we bring them into. As Jerry Springer said, you must hold onto your family because that is all you have. Remember today is the only day you can hug your children or wife and say you love them, no one knows what tomorrow will bring.
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What a lovely post, and food for thought for all of us :)
Kiss and hug your family and always always tell them that you love them :-*
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Hi
I have just found this thread and Hasler, I think your photo says it all, "my mum made this dress".
I sat and sobbed all the way through the Jerry Springer episode as it was so moving. My sister used to live in the same block of flats as Mr Springer and he really is, as he was portrayed, a caring, thoughtful family man.
I haven't missed a single show since the programme began but from a research point of view am becoming slightly disillusioned with it. In the first series they went into a lot more detail about how we could do the research ourselves ie where to find the records that we the general public could access and at what cost.
There must be a lot of other families out there who were helped by a lot of wonderful unselfish "Miss Goldbergs" that would like to know where to try and find the information.
Regards
Half Pint
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Also the fact that the disabled, gypsies, gays, and other "undesirables" were also subject to the wicked regime.
Maybe this could be a suggestion for a future programme?
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Never mind a bit dusty - my room had a very good wash that night!!
A fantastic program and well made.
I don't think anyone will ever know the full extent of what happened during those years. Jerry will have known about some of the atrocities but as someone has already said, until you are actually at the scene you cannot know the emotions that you will feel.
The most poignant moment of the whole program was when they showed the distance clip of Jerry stood by the monuments in the camp, no other sound except his sobbing (and of course mine as well)
His last words must have hit a note with many of us and I totally agree with him - we must hold onto our family as they are all we have