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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: trish251 on Monday 25 August 08 04:47 BST (UK)
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Fellow travellers in Fife
If I am to believe an extracted IGI record from Kinghorn, Fife, my gg grandmother Janet Boyd was baptised there on 5 May 1822, having been born on the prior 20th April. Her parents were Peter Boyd and Barbara Kilgour. Family folklore says her father Peter was a bleacher, located where the St Andrews Golf Links now are found - would this be anywhere near the parish of Kinghorn? In 1841 the family is in Abernethy, Perth, address given as Clunie Mill, but they seemed to have moved around, with her parents located in Markinch in later years.
Janet died in the small village of Myrtleford, Victoria on October 17 1901, living long enough to see a new century and a new Monarch. Her age was given as 79 years, probably the first time since her birth that her age was correctly stated on any official/unofficial document. Despite being noted by her son-in-law, as a "good christian women, happy in the love and service of the good God", Janet did not like to reveal her correct age to her contemporaries in Australia.
In my next post, we will start to look at the many siblings of Janet Boyd and the direction of their lives. This may help to establish a pattern of emigration that remained with this family for many years. Researchers with a detailed knowledge of the parishes within Fife, will no doubt be able to help me map the movements of those family members who remained nearer to their roots.
Trish
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Hello again Fife researchers
Continuing on my research of the Boyd family from Kinghorn, they seem to be a prime example as to why one should listen to family folklore but at the same time - ensure that it is checked against church and civil records.
First son Peter born 2 Jan 1824 Kinghorn and died 2 Oct 1861 in Kircaldy shows our family folklore appears to have been well wrong about Peter - he supposedly went to the USA
Peter started as a bleacher like his father, but then took advantage in an increase in the volume of the travelling public and became the toll collector and labourer on the Turnpike road in Kinghorn, where he can be found in 1851 with wife Jane and 4 children - Peter Barbara William and Jane. Where did the turnpike road go - what was the toll that had to be paid? Any information on these things would greatly increase my knowledge of this family. Perhaps someone lives in the area and could visit and take pictures - if the tollgate does still exist.
The next child in the family was Betty Boyd born 16 December 1825. Betty also came to Australia, but I have been unable to discover when. She married in Victoria in 1855, and like her sister, died in Myrtleford. Yet again, family folklore was incorrect. Betty, I was told by one of my dearest Great Aunts, died in Scotland in 1897. Someone (perhaps my g g grandmother) was passing down incorrect family information.
There were more of this family who ventured out to Australia, looking for gold. I wonder if any of the RootsChat researchers may be related to my Boyd family from Fife.
I should mention, if you have any useful information to share, it is better do so on the boards. PMs do limit family discussions.
In my next message, I will continue with the Boyd siblings, finding the brothers who accompanied my gg grandmother to the goldfields of Victoria
Trish
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Trish,
Google national library of scotland click maps.
They have ordnance survey maps click sheet 37 that,s Kinghorn. Kirsty
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Trish,
Google national library of scotland click maps.
They have ordnance survey maps click sheet 37 that,s Kinghorn. Kirsty
Hi Kirsty
They are great maps, I'm not sure if I have found the right one - too many sheet 37s (think I am a bit thick) but there are so many Flax Mills around Kirkcaldy - no wonder the census shows so many Flax workers around. I will keep looking
Trish
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Hi Trish
Just a thought having read your post,the Barbara Kilgours father wouldn't be a Robert Kilgour ?
My GGGmother was a Kilgour and she had a brother named Robert.
Peter
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Hi Trish
Just a thought having read your post,the Barbara Kilgours father wouldn't be a Robert Kilgour ?
My GGGmother was a Kilgour and she had a brother named Robert.
Peter
Hi Peter
I haven't yet finished in the goldfields of Victoria ;D and am whisked back to the Kilgours, who to the best of my current knowledge were probably in Abbotshall, Fife at the time you are discussing. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, some of my Boyd/Kilgour information came from a very dear Great Aunt who believed everything her mother told her & documented same. Not all of it was true. I have a wonderful obituary, found by a very kind RootsChatter, which also contains some proven incorrect information, showing it is not difficult to convince others of the truth of our fictional stories :o :o
Meanwhile, I think I mentioned my Kilgours on one of your early threads on Rootschat
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,310958.0.html
As well as I can currently verify
Barbara Kilgour b. 23 May 1799, was the daughter of Robert Kilgour and Janet Ross (and as a sideline, I would love to find the ancestors of this Janet Ross). Siblings, Robert, Elizabeth, katherine, John and Helen, all born Abbotshall with extracted IGI entries.
I believe Robert Kilgour was b. 28 Jul 1769 the son of Robert Kilgour and Elizabeth Maxton. Siblings Margaret, Euphane and John. John the oldest was baptised in Kirkcaldy, the others in Abbotshall.
The marriage of Robert and Elizabeth was an "irregular" marriage, the details found for me by a very helpful family enthusiast in Edinburgh. If we are indeed, distant cousins, I am very happy to share this information
Trish
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Hello again Fife researchers
While waiting for Peter to confirm whether or not my Robert Kilgour is also his Robert Kilgour, perhaps making us very distant cousins, I will continue with the next child of Peter Boyd and Barbara Kilgour, Barbara Boyd born 23rd April, 1828 and baptised the following month in the parish of Kinghorn.
Barbara appears to be somewhat of a traveller and a mystery. That same very dear Great Aunt (mentioned previously), included in her family notes, that Barbara Boyd married Kirsop and died in the UK in 1902. While I was researching my Victorian Boyd roots, I came across an index record being the death of Barbara Smith aged 65 years, at Beechworth, 1892, parents listed as Peter Boyd and Barbara Kilgour. This looked seriously like my Barbara Boyd, age very close, parents correct, but surname SMITH! Browsing the Victorian indexes further, I came across a marriage in 1881 between John Smith and Barbara Kirsop. I further found two children born in the 1850s parents being William Kirsop and Barbara Boyd. One of these children, sadly died as an infant, the other survived to raise his own family. So there definitely was some truth in Great Aunt's family story about Barbara, but no-one seems to have recorded any information about Mr Smith, and the death in England looks extremely doubtful.
Forgive my sidetrack here, but a grandchild of Barbara Boyd, being Bessie Kirsop illustrates how careful we must be in verifying our family members, as Bessie provides an example of an incorrect civil record in the state of Victoria. Bessie was born in Benalla Victoria in 1889, her parents were Joseph Kirsop and his wife Mary Barklamb. Sadly Bessie only lived to be four months old, and when she died, in the year of her birth, her grandmother, to help the grieving family, attended the registrar's office to report the death. When the registrar asked "Maiden name?" she replied Barbara Boyd. So the death of Bessie Kirsop is registered with her grandmother listed as her mother. How common is it, to find a civil registration record, easily proved to be incorrect?
The trail of Barbara Boyd from Kinghorn to Beechworth, I will complete in my next posting.
Trish
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Hello Fife Folks
I promised I would follow through with my post on the Barbara Boyd mystery, and so it came to pass:
When searching for Barbara Boyd, whom I was told married Kirsop, I was lucky to find the following information
In 1851 living in Backway, Kelso, Roxburg was 30 year old William Kirsop. William was the head of his family and had become a Railway Platelayer - which may provide a reason as to why he was far from home - having specified that he was born in England. With William I found a 29 year old wife - Barbara Kirsop who was born in Kinghorn, Fife. I would have expected my Barbara to be somewhat younger, but age seems to have been a very variable commodity to my Boyd family from Kinghorn, so I accept she provided incorrect information, or it has been incorrectly transcribed.
Looking for a marriage for this couple is difficult, but perhaps this event in England may be the link - would others agree?
On the same register page, in the East London District, June Quarter, 1852 are mentioned Boyd Barbara and Kirsop William. If this is the marriage, it would seem "living in sin" was not restricted to the lower/middle classes of the mid 20th century, nor no doubt were the "trial marriages" of later times a new idea. Wonder why everyone thought it didn't happen back then?
There are some possible immigration records on the Frances Henry in 1852, but I have to admit, I have not yet looked at the State Library microfiche to find further detail. There are two reasons - one being that the index gives Barbara and Joseph Kirsop, but no William and the other - I become quite useless when searching the Victorian immigration fiche & always hope another kind soul will check them for me, as I can rarely find the right ship, let alone the passengers. Suffice to say, Barbara and William were in Australia by the time their unnamed child was registered in 1857.
I find a Death for William Kirsop, aged 57 in Victoria, 1876. His birthplace on this index is given as Durham and parents George Kirsop and Jane Brown. If another researcher could find verification for this birth/baptism, I would be much obliged. I have no knowledge of the availablity of records for Durham, being outside of my usual sphere of interest.
A few years later in 1881, Barbara has married Mr John Smith, and I fear there is little chance of finding his ancestry, but time may tell. Barbara passed away in the Victorian town of Beechworth in 1892, not as originally thought, in London, 1902 - but perhaps I should check for a double on the 1901 Census of England and Wales.
Trish
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Hi Trish :)
I saw this 1841 census entry in Jarrow, Durham - not sure if it connects to William Kirsop's family. Children born in the county, parents outside of county:
Geo Kirsop 55, agr. lab.
Jane Kirsop 45
Isabella Kirsop 25
Geo Kirsop 20
Thos Kirsop 10
John Kirsop 5
William, as you can see, is not showing in the household so hard to confirm at this stage...but it's a start!
Monica :)
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Hello Monica
Nice to see you back online. :)
Thank you for the find, it looks most likely. When/if I am willing to spend $17.50 on a Victorian death certificate it may provide more confirmation. Wish they were the same price as in Scotland(about $2.50 in my currency). Meanwhile I will find the original census image for my records. You probably realise these folks are related to my Boyds who ended up in Wandsworth. They may appear on the thread eventually. Twas quite a large family.
One of my concerns about the siblings who emigrated to Victoria is that they seemed to very quickly lose contact with each other. That is very unusual for this branch of my family, as the following generations all kept in very close contact.
Trish
Edit: I find baptisms for Thomas and John on the IGI with a possible for William - 1817 but nothing between, however, there is a George Kirsop marrying Jane Hudspith in Medomsley, 1815 - and this couple are 99% the parents of the 1817 William (same parish). Thomas & John, however are baptised Heworth, but the batch only starts 1826. More checking obviously required.
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ADDED: SNAP, I came to the same findings! I'll leave post as is.
The only birth details I can see for William Kirsop (from IGI) is a christening entry on 19 OCT 1817 in Medomsley, Durham. There are two further to parents George Kirsop and mother Jane:
Thomas - 23 OCT 1831 Heworth, Durham
John - 14 FEB 1836 Heworth, Durham
In terms of dates, Thomas and John could connect to that 1841 entry I posted.
There is this possibility for a marriage for the parents:
GEORGE KIRSOP and JANE HUDSPITH
Marriage: 20 APR 1815 Medomsley, Durham, England
The location for this marriage entry would tie up with the entry for the christening of a son William in 1817 in the same place.
The index for the death of William Kirsop in 1857 that you mentioned showed mother as a BROWN, so again, jury's out!
Monica
PS Kids back to school next Thursday...with a little more time and normality, I'll get round to the Library at last for you ;D
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This looks to be George and Jane in 1851 with the two younger children in Heworth Durham:
George Kirsop 67, agr. lab., b. Warden, Northumberland
Jane Kirsop 57, b. Whitfield, Northumberland
Thomas Kirsop 20, rail lab., b. Heworth, Durham
John Kirsop 15, agri. lab., b. Heworth, Durham
Margaret Wylam 23, servant, b. Sunderland, Durham
Monica
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Hi Trish
Have you looked at this site for Co Durham records:
http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/
Just done a quick explore on Kirsop baptisms. There are 8 pages of them. Some of them might be yours but then again ...........
Gadget
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Ah..this might help ;)
Also in Kelso in 1851 were:
George Kirsop 29, platelayer, b. England
Margaret Kirsop 23, b Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Jane Kirsop 1, b. Kelso
Address: Abbey Court , Kelso
Monica
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Ah..this might help ;)
Also in Kelso in 1851 were:
George Kirsop 29, platelayer, b. England
Margaret Kirsop 23, b Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Jane Kirsop 1, b. Kelso
Address: Abbey Court , Kelso
Monica
Oh my - where did these English men meet the Scottish lasses - platelaying seems to be the family occupation!
I wonder how valid is the name Brown! What a shame they didn't all marry in Scotland. Cheap, instant certificates which include the name of the mother of the Bride.
I assume you didn't find a William Kirsop, mother Jane Brown in the list Gadget - or a marriage between a George Kirsop and Jane Brown - that would be most useful. I see the link has an 1841 transcript, could be a better quality than other transcripts, no doubt worth checking.
Tis late in my world, I shall check further another day
Trish
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Oh my - where did these English men meet the Scottish lasses - platelaying seems to be the family occupation!
I wonder how valid is the name Brown! What a shame they didn't all marry in Scotland. Cheap, instant certificates which include the name of the mother of the Bride.
I expect like many of my families and my friends' families, Trish, they crossed the border for work. I have some lovely tales that I might tell on these boards one of these days :) A lovely second cousin of mine had a Welsh mother and a Scottish father by the name of Brown. She married an Irishman :D
I assume you didn't find a William Kirsop, mother Jane Brown in the list Gadget - or a marriage between a George Kirsop and Jane Brown - that would be most useful. I see the link has an 1841 transcript, could be a better quality than other transcripts, no doubt worth checking.
Tis late in my world, I shall check further another day
Trish
I'll have another look at the site later for you. I think it may be worth getting the full listing of all the Kirsops - baptisms, marriages and burials. I do remember quite a few in the Shields/Jarrow/Gateshead area .
In fact, because I am now a pensioner, I get a bus and Metro pass for only a few pence per day so I could even take a little trip over the Tyne and see if I can find anything 'on the ground' as it were.
Sweet dreams
Gadget
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Trish
A descendant of John Kirsop (chr. 1836) has a family tree on line with some additional info:
http://familytree.orbling.org/individual.php?pid=253881676&ged=phpGedIndexOrbell%20family%20tree.ged
Monica
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I expect like many of my families and my friends' families, Trish, they crossed the border for work. I have some lovely tales that I might tell on these boards one of these days A lovely second cousin of mine had a Welsh mother and a Scottish father by the name of Brown. She married an Irishman
If the Scottish father was a Fifer - definitely the place to tell the story. Lots of family stories on the Fife board. And then I wonder - why do all the Fifers (now and then) leave Fife. Must be something going on. Maybe a current Fifer could add some stories about why one should NOT leave Fife. I would love to come back and see the places of my roots - but I shall have to be content with discussing the people and the places in cyber space.
Not sure about these Kirsops - I assume your Mr Brown didn't have a daughter called Jane who married a Kirsop - and despite that none of my Boyds could spell their family names the same from one day to the next, I have doubts about Hudspith and Brown being misspellings of the same name :(
Perhaps I need to be looking for a Jane Brown who married a Hudspith prior to 1815 - tis such a hassle when one lives so far away. Funds permitting I may part with $17.50 (but that may not be the answer).
Trish
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Hi Trish
Definitely no Fifers in my line as yet but maybe. I've got a Spalding in Kirkcudbrighshire b.c. 1750 who I can't yet pin down and there were quite a few Spaldings in Fife and Perth showing on the IGI, if I remember rightly!
However, back to your Durham link. Is it worth posting on either the Durham and/or Northumberland boards with a link to this thread. There are quite a few people on those boards with considerable local knowledge and sources.
Regards
Gadget
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Undertakers should have been BANNED from being the informant on death certificates. They must get the information from someone else, so why can't that name be put on the certificate. I paid my $17.50 and there are 5 deaths on the downloaded page, every one with the undertaker as the informant
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On this death cert the name of the wife is listed as unknown ??? yet all the other details are given. The registrar should have admonished said undertaker, the wife just had to be the informant! The names of 4 children are given - 3 dead and one living! The place of birth, the place of marriage, age at marriage, years in Australia, name of parents, occupation of father - who else but the wife would have known - but the undertaker writes "not known" for name of wife. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
13 August 1876 William Kirsop, Carpenter 57 years Father George Kirsop, Contractor, Mother Jane Kirsop formerly Brown
Informant: the undertaker Born Bamfield Durham England lived 23 years in Victoria Married Aldgate London aged 28 years
wife: not known Children: Barbara Jane dead, William dead, Frederick dead Joseph 18 years
I cannot find a Bamfield, Bramfield, Barnfield so may leave this mystery for awhile.
Trish
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Hi Triish
There's a Benfieldside directly West of Stanley. It's not very close to Jarrow though :-\
Gadget
Added - it's close to Medomsley though!
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I seem to have lots of eyes this evening. But those aside, I don't think that is enough evidence to equate Brown to Hudspith - of course, the undertaker may have made up the Brown. Do wish they had married in Scotland or Australia
Trish
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Hello Kirsty, Peter, Monica, Gadget and any other researchers with an interest in this thread - all are very welcome
While the search for the origins of William Kirsop continues, I will move on to the next of my Boyd siblings. Actually, I will bypass the next, as he is my favourite, so I will leave him until the end.
My next Boyd for discussion is William Boyd, born 2 August 1832, baptised the following month at Kinghorn. William Boyd was one of the family who stayed in Fife. He caused me some confusion - based yet again on information from the dear Great Aunt. She referred to writing letters to Mrs W Boyd (Aunt Jane) in Dysart. So I went looking for a marriage between William Boyd and Jane(Jean/Janet probably accepted). I found Euphemia Duncan. After yet again, despairing of the information from dear Great Aunt, further searching found William, in 1891 living with his wife Jane Boyd. All was forgiven, this must be Aunt Jane.
This family is very interesting, in that on a number of their Census records for Dysart in Scotland, people other than the immediate family members were living with the family. They had names which were known in the research of this family & helped to find/resolve other issues. It is most useful for research to have more distant family on hand at Census time. My first encounter with this was in Dorset and now in Fife - a very useful clue.
William and Euphemia Duncan married in the United Pres, Church, Dysart - just as well it was after civil registration - 25 January, 1870. They quickly had four children, but sadly, shortly after the 1881 census, Euphemia passed away.
Off interest in the 1881 Census - living with the family was servant Jane Kilgour, aged 23, born Leuchars. Was this Jane a relative of William Boyd? A mystery not yet solved.
The career of William Boyd remains a little confusing. In 1881 he is listed as "retired joiner", while in 1891 he has become Inspector of Works. 1901 finds him as a Retired Clerk of Works.
My next post will continue with information on William Boyd, looking at the origins of his first wife & the introduction of "Aunt Jane" to the Boyd family
Trish
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Trish
The Jane Kilgour showing in 1881 in the household of William Boyd - this looks like her birth entry:
JEAN KILGOUR Born on 06 OCT 1857 in Leuchars, Fife
Parents: JAMES KILGOUR and MARY FORRESTER
James, father and born in Kettle, Fife, is showing as a weaver in the 1871 census and family is living in Kettle. Wife shows as Ann, so likely second marriage. There is an 1870 marriage showing on IGI between a James K and an Ann SHARP which may be his (possible 1868 death in Kettle for first wife).
Monica
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Hi Monica
Sorry I am delayed in answering - the real world sometimes interferes :)
The birth does look likely - the names are not familiar. I have a memory that I may have looked at this earlier, but there is nothing in my family file - so perhaps I didn't find a link. I am somewhat more interested in Kilgour than Forrester, so I would rather find the death of father James, than wife Mary, but then I see they did have a child in 1855 - may be a useful purchase - although, I was hoping they married 1855 or later - unfortunately not as they had a child in 1853 and married 1852.
This, however, gives me 2 census records to check for possible parents of James - He married in Kettle & this seems to be where most of his children were born. It seems like a worthwhile digression, so I will post anything I find, in the next short while. I will need to post a little about my ggg grandmother Barbara Kilgour, to determine if there is a link between the families.
Trish
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Hi Trish
Best guess for James Gilmour's parents is this one:
JAMES KILGOUR Born 20 AUG 1825/ Christening on 25 AUG 1825 Kettle, Fife
Parents JAMES KILGOUR and MARGARET LUMSDEN
The family of James, a weaver, and Margaret (Lumsden) show in Muirhead Kettle in 1841 and 1851. Margaret, sadly showing as head in 1851, also born in Kettle.
James Kettle Jnr's 1868 MC to Ann Sharp or his DC will confirm parents as you say.
Monica :)
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Ah, thank you for reminding me (& in such a diplomatic fashion) that marriage 2 would also show the parents.
I have a habit of attempting to get close to 25 events on a page when I do a search on SP - I found that James Kilgour seems to have been the only male Kilgour married in Kettle over quite a long period, so am wondering where he may have came from. I do now have a list of 25 Kilgour marriages in Fife - 1868-1885 ;D - many of which are also on the IGI!
Marriage confirms parents
22 April 1870
James Kilgour H.L.L. Weaver, widower 44 years of Muirhead, Kettle, parents James Kilgour, H.L.L. Weaver deceased and Margaret Kilgour MS Lumsden
Ann Sharp H.L.L. Weaver, single, ?7 (looks like 67!) of Muirhead, Parish of Kettle, parents James Sharp H.L.L. Weaver deceased, Agnes Sharp MS Hodge
Witnesses Helen Sharp & Mary Kilgour
Trish
Edit: I have a separate query re Kilgour - looking for the roots of James snr here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,325648.0.html
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I find a Death for William Kirsop, aged 57 in Victoria, 1876. His birthplace on this index is given as Durham and parents George Kirsop and Jane Brown. If another researcher could find verification for this birth/baptism, I would be much obliged. I have no knowledge of the availablity of records for Durham, being outside of my usual sphere of interest.
The only birth details I can see for William Kirsop (from IGI) is a christening entry on 19 OCT 1817 in Medomsley, Durham.
Trish, here's some more information about the baptism ;D
Baptism in the Chapelry of Medomsley.
Entry 98, 19th October 1817: William, son of George & Jane Kirsopp, Snowsgreen, Husbandman.
Source: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0 Durham Bishops Transcripts, Durham/ Medomsley 1766 - 1846 page 161
[13 August 1876 William Kirsop, Carpenter 57 years Father George Kirsop, Contractor, Mother Jane Kirsop formerly Brown
Informant: the undertaker Born Bamfield Durham England lived 23 years in Victoria Married Aldgate London aged 28 years
wife: not known Children: Barbara Jane dead, William dead, Frederick dead Joseph 18 years
There's a Benfieldside directly West of Stanley. It's not very close to Jarrow though :-\
Gadget
Added - it's close to Medomsley though!
The birthplace of William Kirsopp born 1817, Snowsgreen aka Snow's Green, lay within the Township of Benfieldside (which Gadget has already mentioned) and the Chapelry of Medomsley. Here is an interesting link to verify this http://www.rootschat.com/links/048x/ It still lay within the Township of Benfieldside in 1841, which is easily verified by looking at the 1841 census (starts at HO 107/ 301/ Book 3/ Folio 28/ Page 17)
To add to this wealth of information ;D here is a map http://www.rootschat.com/links/048z/ showing (centre of map - orange arrow) the location of Snowsgreen - click the 'east' arrow and Medomsley comes into view.
Jennifer
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Hi Trish,
Here,s James & Ann in 1881 still at Muirhead Kettle he is now a wood carter.With them son James 9y & dauhter Agnes 6y both born in Kettle. Kirsty.
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Hi Trish
Htis is an inscription and photograph from Dysart Cemetery
which may be of interest to you
the dates on the stone are hardto read
1725 Erected by William BOYD Elmbank Dysart
his wife Euphemia DUNCAN died 26.9.1881 age 49
above William BOYD died April 1904 age 65
daughter Margaret Michie wife of Robert McLELLAND?
Died feb 1901 age 38
Jane Hay CHALMERS wife of the above William BOYD
Died at Annan 1936?
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Jen, Kirsty, NorrieG and all
I am having trouble putting all this information together - I didn't realise when I started the thread how much assistance I would receive - apart from anything else I need to split my Boyds and Kilgours.
Then I have William Kirsop - his mother being given as Jane Brown but JenB & Gadget thinking Jane Hudspith is in the right place at the right time to be his mother - with much to support this idea. Still wish he had married in Scotland! I haven't yet traced William's son in Australia - perhaps some descendants have done some research - although they would start with the Brown reference as well.
Norrie - the picture is fabulous & the 1936 for Jane's death could be most likely - as at some stage in the 1900s she was corresponding with family in Australia - I have an address in Dysart, for Aunt Jane (Mrs W Boyd) that I shall find.
Kirsty - from 1881 Census it is obvious Ann was NOT 67 when she married James Kilgour, I shall check her census age.
More soon - many thanks
Trish
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I did assume it was acceptable to answer everyone on a single post - saving space and all that. But I do have 3 different family groups here that may well need further discussion.
William Kirsop - for want of an alternative, it would seem (and others agree) that he may be the son of George Kirsop and Jane Hudspith. Thank you for the link & transcript JenB - I still haven't installed adobe Flash, so can't yet view the image - thus the transcription is most useful.
Snows green is part of the township of Benfieldside - which may be the Bamfield I read on the death certificate. If I could just remove the name Brown! It could well be that my distant Aunt, wife of William, selected the name Brown at random? I think my families like to do this type of thing. As their marriage certificate will only tell me the father's name, I am not sure I wish to spend 7 pounds, although it would contain an occupation which may help.
I will "pencil in" these parents but am unsure as to where to search for any further verification. Or do I consider it finished? ???
Trish
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Trish ,
Sould have said James 55y b Kettle Ann 49y b Auchterderran.Kirsty
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Trish ,
Sould have said James 55y b Kettle Ann 49y b Auchterderran.Kirsty
Hi Kirsty - no worries and thanks - I have access to a rather "ordinary" transcription of the census :) - but if Ann was 49 in 1881, she was probably 37 on the marriage certificate - sure doesn't look like a 3. Having 2 children in the next few years, however, seems reasonable at that age.
Trish
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hi trish i was reading this post and saw where you were questioning the validity of brown to kirsop. bivri shows john kirshop born apr. 25 1854 chr jun 6 1854 to john kirsop and mary brown can they be connected to your kirsop and brown happy hunting beans
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Hi Beans
That is interesting - can you tell me the where? of the birth. Tis rather too late for my man, but if related, I wonder if it caused the name confusion?
Trish
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hi trish it says rothesay buteshire scotland john is the only child on the bivri discs. is there a connection? beans
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Hello, Barbara Boyd (born 1828 in Kinghorn) had two children to George Allan (ploughman of Dunning) out of wedlock. These kids were Betsy Allan born abt. 1838 in Dunning and Mary Ann Allan born abt. 1845. Betsy Allan married my great grandfather James Ritchie in 1872.
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Hi IGJones
Are you sure it is the same Barbara Boyd. If she was born in 1828, it seems most unlikely that she would have a child when she was 10 years old? 1845 seems more likely, she would have been 17.
In 1841, the one of my interest is listed on the census as 13 years old and at home with her family
1841 Census of Scotland 326/00 005/00 005
Abernethy, Perth - Clunie Mill
Peter Boyd 45 Bleacher N
Barbara do 40 N
Janet Boyd 20 Bleacher N
Peter Boyd 15 do N
Barbara do 13 N
Robert Do 12 N
William do 10 N
Henry do 7 Y
John do 3 Y
and in 1851 she is listed with her husband to be (despite the names on the census they married in 1852)
1851 Census Scotland
Backway Kelso Roxburg
William Kirsop 30 head Railway Platelayer England
Barbara Kirsop 29 wife Kinghorn Fifeshire (age variation)
Are we talking about the same family?
Do you have them on the census? Under what name Allan or Boyd? I see the marriage on the IGI in 1872
Trish
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Hello Trish,
Yes you are correct, my fat fingers getting in the way of a good story. Betsy/Elizabeth Allan was born 1846/47 to Barbara Boyd and George Allan.
Ian
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Hi Ian
So are you still saying my Barbara Boyd was the parent? She went to England and then Australia - who brought up the children. Did she desert the family? If the couple weren't married - what name was the child baptised under?
Trish
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Hi Trish,
Yes it looks that way. Betsy Allan lists Barbara Boyd as her mother on her marriage and death certificate. George Allan looked after the girls until they left and worked as domestics. On Betsy's death certificate she is listed as 'illegitimate' to Barbara Boyd (domestic servant). Barbara's parents were Peter Boyd and Barbara Kilgour.
Ian
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Well that's interesting - not surprising. I often wonder about 20th century morality - I seem to have found more births before marriage in my 19th century ancestors than I ever found after marriage (which may be a slight exaggeration - but if I add in the ones that were 6 months pregnant when they married ::) ).
Would we then be distant cousins? I descend directly from Janet - sister to Barbara. She was my gg grandmother. We must be of the same generation? sharing ggg grandparents.
I shall have to see if I agree with all this ;D Most interesting. Are you in Scotland Ian?
Trish
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Hi Trish,
No, I am in Victoria right now. Born in Perth W.A. but my work takes me all over Australia. Yes, I am going back to the drawing board to make sure I have it right - and the researchers who are looking at things in Scotland. My grandmother came from Glasgow and my grandfather James Ritchie is a product of the second marriage of James Snr to Janet Guthrie Ramsay. James married Janet after the death of Betsy. So I would assume we are half cousins, if there is such a thing. Where do you have your Barbara Boyd in the 1841 Census?
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Hi Trish,
I just googled Kilgour family tree and came across this, you seemed to have mentioned the Kilgour name, which there is no other Kilgours I've ever met in my Life apart from My family.My name is Gavin Reekie but my mothers maiden name is Kilgour and all the family still live in Levenmouth, Fife.I dont know if we might be very long distant relations, im very ignorant about researching family trees etc but I do find it very interesting.Just thought id mention it, dont know if it is relevant at all :P ;D
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Hi Gavin
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Unfortunately, you're a wee bit late to be in touch with Trish. She left a while ago.
She might see your posting.
Gadget