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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Princess Poppy on Wednesday 13 December 06 13:42 GMT (UK)
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Go here to read all about it!
http://www.yourfamilytreemag.co.uk/
Cheers, PP
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hi Princess Poppy
That sounds like good news , at least a step in the right direction so long as you know the address.
£45 - what do others think ??
DJ
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WOW thanks for the link and well done to Guy for his determination ;D
Jane
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:D :D :D
Mmmm... fancy that ? and well done fellow Rootschatter Guy Etchells. ;) ;) ;)
Some years back, (before the 1901 Census became available), I desperately needed some information from it, and I used this paid service, which then cost £40. At the time, it was well worth it, as I'd hit the proverbial brick wall and it enabled me to go forward in leaps and bounds.
;) ;) ;)
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Well done Guy!
However, £45 to search for one address......out of my range especially as most of my families seem to move home frequently. I could be broke before I found them.
Nanny Jan
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Very restricted info, so no use for those of us who don't know where our ancestors were.
And I have a nasty feeling if the Press gets hold of this, it will have quite an impact on the next Census - people will feel far more reluctant to give out info if they know it will will be accessible under the FoI Act. Or they will lie.
I'm not sure this is good news.
meles
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Official details here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/1911census/
Thanks for pointing that out, PP
;)
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They are still witholding the private info until the 100 year mark is up so what is there to get jumpy about? ???
Cheers, PP
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Oh well I suppose 2012 is not that far off now!!!
Kerry
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What is private info and what is public?
meles
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Quote from the story:
The Information Commissioner ruled that confidentiality could only be applied to details of people’s health or mental infirmity, which did not apply in the case of the particular record Guy requested.
Addresses in 1911 aren't private are they? Many of those addresses won't even exist now. ;)
Cheers, PP
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This is great news! ;D
However does the questions relating to health mean questions 6-8 and 15 of the total questions asked?:
1. Name
2. Relationship to head of household
3. Age (Years + Months)
4. Marital status (if over 15)
- Each married woman had to answer:
5. Completed years of present marriage
-- Of the children born alive to present marriage:
6 .Total children born alive
7. No. of children still living
8. No. of children who have died
- All occupants again:
9. Personal occupation
10. Industry or service the worker is connected with
11. Whether Employer/Employee/Working on Own Account
12. Whether working from home or not
13. Birthplace (County + Parish)
14. Nationality (British subject by parentage/Naturalised citizen [with year]/Foreign national)
15. Infirmity (Totally deaf/blind, Lunatic or Feebleminded)
NB: This is from the appendix of the 1911 census General Report from my local public library.
acceber
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Bureaucracy ::) +/-
Well done Guy! - is that 'cos it's in my interest or interests me :-\
Wendi :)
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Oh well I suppose 2012 is not that far off now!!!
From the official press release it seems - apart from the details of people’s health or mental infirmity it is about to be fast tracked and they are looking towards 2009.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/13dec2006.pdf
The National Archives has already made significant plans to digitise the 1911 census for the first working day of 2012 and as a result of the Information Commissioner’s decision, The National Archives is seeking to fast-track this process. A partner will be selected, and the contract awarded in the spring 2007, to develop an online census that is searchable by address and name. This process is not quick, as the whole census needs to be digitised, and searchable indices created. The National Archives hopes to start to offer a searchable service in early 2009, with key sensitive information withheld until 2012. This service will enable most researchers to find the information that they want, through a simple search.
Well Done Guy :D :D :D :D
Trish
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Well there you go then Trish, told you it wasn't that far off!!!!!
Kerry ::) ::)
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Well there you go then Trish, told you it wasn't that far off!!!!!
Kerry ::) ::)
Hi Kerry
I'm not quite sure whether we gained or lost 3 years ??? ??? ???
Trish
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Hmmm does that mean I age quicker!!!!
In all seriousness, I have the whole of my family lined up waiting to put them in the context of the 1911 census. All my great grandparents etc. Would be very useful to get there earlier but not sure it's worth paying £45 for!
Kerry :)
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Kerry - £45 does sound expensive - I couldn't justify spending it.
Luckily for me, the 1911 will be the icing on the cake, rather than the means to an end - thankfully!
If I still had unanswered questions .. .. who knows! ;D
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I'm much the same Pels, if I had a brickwall that could only be answered by the 1911 I might think twice, otherwise I will wait.
Kerry :)
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Hmmm ... £45 ! That's 6.5 certificates ... if I was actually going to spend that amount on certs anyway. Quite a bit out of a pension ...
Problem is, if we knew for sure where they were living, why would we want to search for them ?
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...because there might be some family members that you would otherwise not know about. This could be particularly important if you were looking for descendants, and especially in the case of families who had immigrated to England, about whom info prior to 1911 was sparse.
I am actually toying with the possibility of doing this. I would like to know if the only apparently-surviving child of a widowed father in a family was still living, and with the family, in 1911, as the father was interned in WW1, and disappears; so far, I have no clue what happened to the child. Problem is that so far I have 3 different relevant addresses for this family: (1) from the 1910 PO Directory (anyone happen to know specifically when it was compiled, or what info it was based on?), (2) from a marriage 6 March 1910 (but addresses given at marriage are notoriously unreliable, and this one is a few miles from any other family addresses), and (3) from a death 3 Oct.1911. Now, which one do I pick??? The death one seems the most stable, as I can match that address with the father's occupation - he was a baker, and this particular address had been used as a bakery for several previous censuses. But I need to know if he moved there upon remarriage, or was it a year or so later?
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I guess the answer is based on 'You pays your money and you makes your choice' or something like that !
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I must admit, I don't like this.
I'm sure when people were told their information wouldn't be available for 100 years, they didn't think that it would be redefined as 'Private' information. I've always believed that the information I've supplied will not be used until I was long gone (or at least until it didn't matter any more), but now it turns out only to be the info that someone else deems to be private. I consider all of the info I provided 'Private' and I resent the thought that people might be able to have access to it.
I know it's great to have the info for family history reasons, but I'm willing to wait until 2012 for it.
Anita
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I imagine that as people live longer this could potentially become a bigger issue.
Wouldn't that be weird, being able to look back 100 years of your life on the census return.
Kerry
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Wouldn't that be weird, being able to look back 100 years of your life on the census return.
Not quite 100 years, but I can see my Mom who is in her 80's on her first USA Census returns - now you find out the truth :o
As I hope I indicated before, I understand the legal principle in Guy's argument but I'm not sure of the reality, specially not these days.
Wendi :)
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A great good job Guy!
'Loo' has hit my nail smack on the head.Two Uncle,s,no birth place indicated and I can't dig 'em up,(birth place,s that is,)another Uncle has gone A.W.O.L since I knew him as a child.
A place of birth for my G'Ma may just make a key for a presently locked door.
So,guess who is willing to reduce his Dog,s rich diet,the Canarie,s lifestyle and go to bed earlier himself to save the money?
Goggy. ;) ;D 8)
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I dont know if any of you have seen this, but i will post the link anyway
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/CensusInfoFreed/
Gabbers
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Hi Gabbers - there is already a thread about this here: 'Sign the petition re 1911 census' http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,205631.0.html
acceber
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hi
i thought there might be, trust me to post it again, :-X thanks for letting me know.
Gabbers
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In a press release dated today 17th January on the TNA website states that a digital version of the 1911 census searchable by name and address is now planned to be available from 2009, the full version will still be withheld until 2012.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/17jan2007.pdf
Stan
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I'm patiently (well, not actually) waiting for the 1921 ... Gr. gr parents were alive in 1912 and I've 'lost' them after that ...
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I must admit, I don't like this.
I consider all of the info I provided 'Private' and I resent the thought that people might be able to have access to it
I sympathise, Anita, and part of me agrees with you - but nowadays so much information is in the public domain it seems unreasonable to make an exception of the address you were living in over 90 years ago. For example, anyone who wants to can buy copies of my divorce papers, including the decree nisi, which spells out all the details of the split. Also anyone can buy copies of your spouse's/parent's will, showing exactly what you inherited (or didn't inherit). Now medical histories are computerised, all sorts of admin people have access to information you may want to keep to yourself. It seems to me that these things are far more 'private' than a 90 year old address.
What do other people think?
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I think govts & private organisations use the word privacy to hide their own inefficient practices and desire to limit knowledge of their own activities. My address is in the phone book (which is on line). My phone number is on hundreds of tele market phone lists - and they don't care 2 bits about my privacy, nor does the government care that they keep calling against my wishes.
In 100 years I doubt that few will know/care whether I lived or not - I would just as much rather - if some lost family were looking for me, that they found me alive, rather than dead. If someone wants to "steal" my identity, it won't be the census information that helps in this task.
I can't remember any thing I said on a census that I would be bothered if it was known (apart from my age)
Trish
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trish - ;D - good points, well made !
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I was looking through Debrett's Peerage online the other day, something I've never looked at before. I was curious, but a bit squeamish about how much info is on there, including divorces, children etc., although not the gory details. When you're an aristocrat, everyone is interested in your lineage, and everything is carefully tracked.
And it seems that if you're an aristocrat, you must think that this is all perfectly normal. Or, do aristocrats cringe too?
Is that why it's a much bigger deal to "let down the family name" if you misbehave when you come from a Debrett's family?
Made me think of papparazzi (sp?), and their impact, Diana notwithstanding.
Any aristos out there who would care to comment?
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I was born in Nov 1951, so the first Census on which I will appear is the 1961 Census
This will be released on Jan 1st 2062 if present criteria are used.
I would be if still alive 110 years old. Don't think I really mind this being publicly available
Bob
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I was born in 1966 Bob so the first census I was on would have have been 1971 so in 2072 when it is released, I imagine I will be long gone!!!!!
Kerry
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Like Bob my first census appearance will be 1961. My son will be a hopefully, sprightly 80 year old. :D
Not too sure which one of two counties I resided in during that period - will ask my mum now, so to avoid confusion later! 8)
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Having been born at the end of 1949, I first appeared on a census in 1951, so I might just make it to see myself in 2052!
Nanny Jan
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Having been born at the end of 1949, I first appeared on a census in 1951, so I might just make it to see myself in 2052!
Nanny Jan
Nanny Jan we do hope so!! :D :D
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The continued closure of the census from 1911 to the 2001 census is totally ludicrous. In this day and age it is perfectly possible to withold any sensitive information but at the same time release the bulk of the information.
One could even make a case for saying the witholding of census information is racist.
Why?
Because the information given by aliens is available on line (National Archives website) and that holds more sensitive information than the census
"Aliens Registration Cards (1876 - 1991)
The information provided on the cards includes full name, date of birth, date of arrival into the UK, marital status, details of any children, address, employment history (including employer's name and address), and date of naturalisation with the Home Office reference if applicable. The cards usually include at least one photograph and for most cases there are continuation cards .
A registered person was required also to register any changes of name, address, marital status, nationality, and employment or occupation. Penalties seem to have varied for not notifying the police of changes to personal circumstances, increasing if they re-offended. That said, the majority of aliens were not fined for misdemeanours. "
The cards even show the misdemeanours
Cheers
Guy
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I've never quite understood the 100 year ruling anyway.
I kind of understand why recent census shouldn't be released because it shows our addresses etc but surely 100 could be reduced to 75 or 50 years. Why should all this information be given and then not available??
Kerry
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Sorry Kerryb I don't understand your thinking on this.
The Electoral Roll shows our address and is open to public inspection, even the full Electoral Roll is available to everyone (to purchase) after 8 or 10 years (can't remember of the top of my head which).
Legally the census, and other public records are either open or closed forever, there is now no legislation to provide for a closure period of 100 years.
Cheers
Guy
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I've just realised that every census I've appeared on will have me living at a different address....all over the country.
If there's anyone looking for me in 100 years it should keep them busy!
Nanny Jan
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Sorry Kerryb I don't understand your thinking on this.
The Electoral Roll shows our address and is open to public inspection, even the full Electoral Roll is available to everyone (to purchase) after 8 or 10 years (can't remember of the top of my head which).
Legally the census, and other public records are either open or closed forever, there is now no legislation to provide for a closure period of 100 years.
Cheers
Guy
Of course Electoral roll shows our addresses!! I'd forgotten that! So in that case what is the 100 year rule on censuses for. What is the sensitive information and why can't we see the 1911 and 1921 now??
Kerry
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Kerry
In Australia the most useful source for addresses is the telephone directory - online as up to date as yesterday - offline 12 months old - I assume you have similar in the UK.
One can opt out of being in it - but most don't bother - so I really think the "privacy" bit is bunk!
And I keep hearing about folks being "promised" that it would not be released - the only promises a government ever keeps are the ones they want to - and are so insignificant that they are irrelevant in our lives - Our PM talks about "core" promises - the others don't matter so I wonder where the census fits >:( >:( probably a promise they can keep while they break the important ones
Trish
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We do have similar in this country.
Thinking as a normal person (although I can't remember what information is actually on the last census) the only thing most people are 'sensitive' about is their address. Perhaps someone can enlighten me if I am wrong.
So why are they hidden for so long?
Kerry
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heres what Guy said about the subject in March 2006 ..
The report to the government made some false statements which clouded the situation.
1) That stated that there had been a promise that the census would be confidential for 100 years.
False, only the 1981, 1991 & 2001 census mentioned 100 years all other census simply said they would be confidential.
2) The statement stated that releasing the census earlier than 100 years would lead to a lack of confidence in its confidentiality.
False, when the 1911 census was taken all census were released after 75 years. In addition in 1871 the census officials in London divulged the names and addresses of all children 3-13 and their parents to the London School Board to help enforce compulsory education.
3) The statement stated that releasing the census earlier than 100 years would lead to a lack of confidence in its confidentiality.
False, Prior to the release of the 1901 census in 2002 it was possible to obtain the details of residents of a particular address on payment of a (large) fee.
This option ended with the release of the 1901 census and the subsequent Freedom of Information Act.
We must keep pressure on the government if we ever wish to see the 1911 census being released, if the pressure drops the census will not be released at all.
Why?
Because the promises made said the census would be treated as confidential, no time limit was imposed on this confidentiality.
You think that is not likely look at the precedent set with Civil Registers.
Until the 1890s it was possible to search registers held by Superintendent Registrars, until 1975 it was possible to search registers held by every local registrar. Now it is impossible to search registers held by Superintendent Registrars and many local Registrars refuse access to the registers in their keeping.
A similar situation is occurring when purchasing recent (within the last 50 years) certificates. The law states anyone may purchase any BMD certificate but Southport is trying to impose unlawful restrictions.
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Yes I know all of that, but we still don't know what the confidential information is supposed to be! ::) ;)
Seems to me the government is consistent in never being able to make up its mind!!!!
kerry
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well, exsqueeze me :)
thought it might be a useful summary for others .....
Try contacting:-
Séverine Gould or Marie Clements on 020 8392 5277 or email: press@nationalarchives.gov.uk
The whole Press Release can be viewed at -
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/17jan2007.pdf
it stresses Personally Sensitive information ....
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The Information Commissioner states information to remain confidential is that which would constitute a breach of confidence actionable by that or another person.
http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/decisionnotices/2006/101391_dn_rt_changes.pdf
In section 24 of his decision he describes his view as to what the word actionable means in this context.
"... if a claim were brought, would it succeed? A mere chance of success is not sufficient to satisfy section 41."
Cheers
Guy
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seen this site Guy ? - not sure who's running it ..... may be linked to LostCousins.com ?
If you are considering requesting information from the 1911 Census of England
& Wales under the Freedom of Information Act, we'd suggest you check out
http://www.1911census.info for the latest news and tips.
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I wasn't on the 1941 census as I hadn't been born then, and there wasn't one taken anyway, so my first is on the 1951 census as a child; the 1961 as a young adult. I married in 1964, thus changing my name. Then I'm missing from the 1971 and 1981 as I was living abroad, so as I'm on the UK census for 1991 with a different name to the 1961 census, it'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall if any of my descendents look for me !!
No wonder I can't find my fore-bears if they did the same sort of thing !
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seen this site Guy ? - not sure who's running it ..... may be linked to LostCousins.com ?
If you are considering requesting information from the 1911 Census of England
& Wales under the Freedom of Information Act, we'd suggest you check out
http://www.1911census.info for the latest news and tips.
Yes I have noticed it a couple of times seems to be registered by
Registrant Name:Peter Calver
Registrant Organization:Audiogenic Software Ltd
According to whois the domain register search service.
Cheers
Guy
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Might be altruistic, but I suspect a pecuniary advantage will be sought !
Cheers, Newfster
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With the interst in the new cesus relaease and petitions etc can anyone explain why the change to 100 years?
When did this occur and what are the chances of getting it changed?
Andy
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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If you are considering requesting information from the 1911 Census of England
& Wales under the Freedom of Information Act, we'd suggest you check out
http://www.1911census.info for the latest news and tips.
I found very interesting one of the links within the above page
http://alpha.qmul.ac.uk/~cgaa183/1911.html
Trish
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At £45 a time and maybe over 20 address's to look up I think it will become a very expensive hobby and if your not sure of address could mean many more searches. Some is going to very rich !!!!!!
Jim
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I took advantage of it and found details of my maternal grandfather, after seven years searching I thought it was money well spent (he never married my grandmother so there were no details to work back from - and a very common name.) Since getting the details I've traced and ordered his b/cert and found him, with his parents, siblings and grandmother on the 1881 census.
Tim
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That's great news.
Cheers
Guy
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I'd be quite happy waiting for 100 year gap to maintain confidentiality if this happened in every other sphere of life!
I remarried four years ago. Type in my name on ancestry and there I am - under the marriages between 1984-2004. If you're interested you can send to Southport for a copy of my marriage certificate, which has my current address, my age, my occupation etc. Now if the government thinks it's OK to put all that info into the public domain, it beats me why the address my grandmother lived at in 1911 should be seen as so sensitive!!
You could think of a dozen other examples of how all our details are in the public domain for those prepared to look. Very few details from 1911 will be relevant today - there's just no logic here, at all.
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Hi Lesleyhannah
I wasn't really all that bothered but now having read your post it just shows yet again, the anomalies of government policy and yes I now think we should have it quicker than 100 years.
Much of the data from the 1911, as you say has little relevance today compared to marriage certificates of 4 years ago :o :o :o :o
Kerry
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With the interst in the new cesus relaease and petitions etc can anyone explain why the change to 100 years?
When did this occur and what are the chances of getting it changed?
Andy
Moderator Comment: topics merged
The 100 year rule was brought in in 1966 and repealed in 2000.
Records now are either open for public inspection or exempt from public inspection. If exempt they are exempt forever, there is no legislation that allows a record to be exempt for only 100 years.
Cheers
Guy
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But NOT good news in Scotland, where the 1911 Census won't be available until 2012, and no FOI requests either. Ironic that Scotland Online will be responsible for for digitising all of the historical records in England and making them accessible, but NOT Scotland!
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How do you know Scotlands people are doing it
Seems like a bad move to me
They are expensive and all ppv no subscriptions
Bob
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How do you know Scotlands people are doing it
It was in one of the National Archives Newsletters..
Suey
ps Nell beat me to it - I was just about to post the link :D
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See also this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,226419.0.html
See the article itself here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/156.htm?homepage=news
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As we al know most people can find a link to the census of 100 years ago by talking to immediate ancestors.
Those wanting to access more recent ones would only want to find one or two families so perhaps there should be provision to access particular information (for an appropiate fee) if you can satisfy certain criteria (like being a direct descendant) - thers no reasun why this shouldnt apply to even recent census returns.
If the demand for enealogical information continues at current rates I think the companies like ancestry would apply pressure come 2030 (or before) when it is clear no census information will be available for a while.
On the other hand genealogists and similar thinking people might be happy for more information to be included. Perhaps future census might allow people to voluntarily submit extra information in the form of a computer attachment - what better way to ensure the preservation of your family tree work - and a great historical resorce for future generations. - allow 1GB per inhabitant of the household for example
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The confidentiality of the WW1 pension recordswas obviously not 100 years.
I have seen more sensitive information in these than any Census - what 'social diseases' our ancestors caught.
Policy is really inconsistent
Bob
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I agree Stonechat but then I guess it depends on what is considered confidential, and yes there seems no sense to that either!
Kerry
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I was wondering when the 1911 census will be available to researchers.
Thank you.
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2012.
unless you want to look at a a particular address and you can get the household for 45quid? now.
Pauline
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Thanks.
I think 45 quid is a bit step for me.
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The National Archives hopes to start to offer a searchable service in early 2009, with key sensitive information withheld until 2012. This service will enable most researchers to find the information that they want, through a simple search. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/13dec2006.pdf
From the 1911 Census on, the data was put on punched cards directly from the Householder's Schedules. There were no enumerators books as in the previous censuses. From the family history standpoint the original paper householders schedules are the only source of information. This information will be more reliable as it will not have been copied as in he earlier censuses.
Stan
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Thanks.
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when is the 1911 census available 0n line
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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hi kpnuts
don't know when 1911 census will be available
but i've been told(second hand) not to get my hopes up as it's not
in very good condition :'(
that the indexing is not as good as previous census returns and
the staff know where it is because the records smell ;D
this was meant to come from an article in a family history magazine
can anyone confirm this ?
ev
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Hi , here is a link for you about 1911 census
http://www.1911census.org.uk/
Yvonne :)
Happy New Year
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thankyou yvonne happy new year
i am looking forward to using the census whenever it happens
ann
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This has just been covered in
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,275521.0.html
Moderator Comment: topics merged
Stan
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hi kpnuts
don't know when 1911 census will be available
but i've been told(second hand) not to get my hopes up as it's not
in very good condition :'(
that the indexing is not as good as previous census returns and
the staff know where it is because the records smell ;D
this was meant to come from an article in a family history magazine
can anyone confirm this ?
ev
"The 1911 Census itself contains some 35,000 volumes of schedules and 38,000 enumerators summary books. The National Archives Conservation department carried out a survey of the 1911 Census. Statistically significant samples of the records were inspected to produce a conservation report on the condition of the Census schedules. Skilled TNA staff directly supervised by the Preservation Manager did this work. The assessment followed the guidelines published in Eden et al. (1998): A Model for Assessing Preservation Needs in Libraries. British Library Research and Innovation Report 125. Although creases or folds were estimated to occur in nearly 50% of records, this would not materially affect the legibility or scanning, and the data used to estimate scanning costs and time scales include this routine preparation work. A much smaller percentage, about 5% of the Census schedules, will require more extensive conservation work to be scanned safely. All of these records are stored in good environmental conditions in the Kew repositories and whilst it has been widely reported that these records smell, the Preservation Manager assures me that the 1911 Census does not smell at all. It has also recently been confirmed by the Preservation Manager that the accompanying enumerators summary books, which are bound volumes, are in very good condition.
Yours sincerely Jacqui Shepherd Freedom of Information Manager The National Archives."
Stan
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thanks stan :)
you wonder where these stories start from
i can now put a stop to one particular source and inform
everyone i know
ev
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From the 1911 Census on, the data was put on punched cards directly from the Householder's Schedules. There were no enumerators books as in the previous censuses. From the family history standpoint the original paper householders schedules are the only source of information. This information will be more reliable as it will not have been copied as in he earlier censuses.
and ...
The 1911 Census itself contains some 35,000 volumes of schedules and 38,000 enumerators summary books. The National Archives Conservation department carried out a survey of the 1911 Census. ...... assures me that the 1911 Census does not smell at all. It has also recently been confirmed by the Preservation Manager that the accompanying enumerators summary books, which are bound volumes, are in very good condition.
so which quote is correct ?
::)
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The enumerator's books are not the same as the enumerator's summary books in the 1911 census.
From the 1911 Census report.
"In one respect this routine differed materially from that followed at previous censuses. At these the enumerator was required to copy the replies to the questions on the schedule into an “enumeration book” in which form the information was very much more compactly arranged, blank spaces being eliminated. It was from these enumeration books that the census tables were prepared. This procedure had the advantage of presenting the information in a much more legible, compact and convenient form for tabulation, but it involved much laborious work in copying …….It was therefore decided to omit this copying process in 1911, and to tabulate from the schedules themselves…..
In order to ensure that schedules were left at all inhabited buildings it was the duty of the enumerator, as at previous censuses, to carry a “memorandum book” while delivering the schedules, in which he entered, street by street, the address and description of every building, inhabited or not, with the names of the heads of families. After collecting and numbering the schedules, and entering the total number of males and females on each schedule, all these particulars were copied, from the memorandum book and the schedules concurrently, into a “summary book.” These “enumerator’s summaries,” prepared primarily in order to enable the registrar to ensure by checking them that no housed population was omitted in the enumeration, played a very important part….in the tabulation.
Stan
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I knew you'd say that :P
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I believe the 2009 only applies to England/Wales - It will still be 2012 before the 1911 census is available for Scotland
Trish
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A 'Micro-site' has been launched by Scotland Online so you can follow the progress of the project. There isn't very much there as yet, but you can register for updates
www.1911censusinfo.co.uk/census-news.php (http://www.1911censusinfo.co.uk/census-news.php)
Meanwhile, if you happen to visit Kew you can look at the pages that have already been released as a result of paid searches, to give you an idea of what they look like.
Mean_genie
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Reading through this thread, I suddenly feel very old! I seem to have been born well before anyone else!
But I agree with you all that the 1911 Census should be available now for reference. Good for you Guy for trying to get it online.
Small point. You cannot always find people from the Phone book though. I went ex directory some years ago, so although I am on the electoral role, my address is not in the phone book, nor is my number. Nor are the addresses of people who do not have their telephones from BT. I still get unwanted phone calls though from the random dialing system.
Like the rest of you there is information I need from the 1911 census, but I simply cannot afford £45.00 now that I am retired.
Rabbit B
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Never mind the 1911, I want the 1921 to answer all sorts of questions .. will I last long enough ? :-\ :-\
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I hope so Lydart ;D ;D
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I hope so too, and I would like to be around to see it as well.
Rabbit B ;D
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Just think, when 1921 Census is released, it will be another 30 years before we see the next, 1931 was destroyed, and no 1941 census was taken
Bob
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Unless the 1939 census is released in 2040-ish...
Mean_genie
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Just for clarification, it was the English/Welsh 1931 census that was destroyed.
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however there was a list of men (& households ) i think taken before the start of WW2 (got full details of whats its called etc. at home)
to ascertain if we had enough men to go to war
pretty much like the 1831 census
this will help many people - well its better than not having anything
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The 1939 'Census' was taken in Sep 1939, using the stationery and admin framework that was already in place for the 1941 census, and it was used for National Registration, ie the issue of identity cards and ration books. Less information was gathered than in a normal decennial census, and after the war it formed the basis of the National Health Register.
In theory it should be available for release after 100 years (ish!), but I don't know whether this will be the case, because unlike a proper 'census', it was subsequently annotated throughout people's lives, so some of the information is relatively recent.
Mean_genie
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How many of us will still be searching when we are well over 100 years of age, in the 1951 ?? :(
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Hi Lydart,
Don't think I will be, I still have my ID card. I was born before the war started!
Rabbit B ;D
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The 1939 'Census' was taken in Sep 1939, using the stationery and admin framework that was already in place for the 1941 census, and it was used for National Registration, ie the issue of identity cards and ration books. Less information was gathered than in a normal decennial census, and after the war it formed the basis of the National Health Register.
In theory it should be available for release after 100 years (ish!), but I don't know whether this will be the case, because unlike a proper 'census', it was subsequently annotated throughout people's lives, so some of the information is relatively recent.
Mean_genie
i was refering to this
but i was only refering to the first part not the NHS register
and obviously wasn't expecing to be released until 100 years after well 1939!
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Keep searching Rabbit ... your age may say N/A ... but I'm sure that really means Nice Antique ... you know, the ones on Antiques Roadshow, with curvaceous legs, and a well padded seat ! ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D from one antique to another !! ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Lydart m' old antique ,
Your description is certainly me! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Improving with age as they say! ;) ::) ::) ::) However I still want to look at that census! It could tell me everything I need to know.
Rabbit B :D
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Are we really going to have to wait until 2011 for the 1911 census or will there be a way to pay for access earlier?
Kate.
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No, you won't have to wait that long, there will be a phased release from 2009, with a small amount of information witheld (essentially details of disabilities).
Sorry it took me so long to answer this, but I've been out of range of email for over a week
Mean_genie
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See also the National Archives info about the 1911 census.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/1911census/
If you know the address you want and are very rich ::)(it costs £45) you can access some of it now.
Info on the website above.
Carol
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I'll be about 79 when the 1951 census comes out, so maybe, hopefully :)
Time machines may be invented by then anyway :D
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YEs Born late 1951 so 1st Jan 2062 before I am on a released census!
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I'll be about 79 when the 1951 census comes out, so maybe, hopefully :)
me too, well abit younger!
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I probally get bored waiting for the 1951 census. Its bad enough waiting for the 1911 census
JIM
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I probally get bored waiting for the 1951 census. Its bad enough waiting for the 1911 census
JIM
Well thanks to Guy we will all see it 3 years sooner than expected - only another 7 months to wait - I wonder if it will survive the release onslaught better than the 1901
Trish
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Hopefully they will be better prepared this time , who's for betting 5 million hits in the first hour.
only another 7 months to wait
7 mths is still too long to wait ;)
Pete
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some news on progress, altho still no detail on which 'major conurbations' will be released first
http://www.1911census.co.uk/census-news.php
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at least they are keeping us updated :)
will it be only availbale to view ont hat particular website?
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some news on progress, altho still no detail on which 'major conurbations' will be released first
http://www.1911census.co.uk/census-news.php
Thanks Newf - I thought 1911 was to have the householder returns available - but the information from Scotland online indicates they have scanned the enumerators books. Perhaps this was to have something available early ???
Trish
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There are no Enumeration Books for 1911 as we know them from earlier census years, the records in RG78 are the Enumerators' Summary Books, which don't contain names.
You are quite right that it is the Household Schedules in RG14 we are looking forward to seeing when the whole census is released, so for the first time it will be a primary source, without being filtered by the copying and editorial skills of the enumerators.
Mean_genie
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The Enumerator Summary Books (ESB) contain instructions for each enumerator, particulars of each enumeration district including boundaries of districts and in urban areas the names of streets and partial streets. All houses and buildings habited or non-inhabited on the Census day were detailed in the summary books giving details of the types of buildings and what they were used for. They are signed by the enumerator and each registrar. http://www.rootschat.com/links/03fm/
Stan
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I imagine that as people live longer this could potentially become a bigger issue.
Wouldn't that be weird, being able to look back 100 years of your life on the census return.
Kerry
My mother was 90 this year has every intention of being around in 2012, dad died at 95, mum could not care less on information 100 years old, in fact she would boast about it. I just hope the genes have been pasted on ::)
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There are no Enumeration Books for 1911 as we know them from earlier census years, the records in RG78 are the Enumerators' Summary Books, which don't contain names.
You are quite right that it is the Household Schedules in RG14 we are looking forward to seeing when the whole census is released, so for the first time it will be a primary source, without being filtered by the copying and editorial skills of the enumerators.
Mean_genie
Mean-Genie & Stan
many thanks - but does this mean they have scanned the rest - or are just starting the rest or am I just confused
Trish
And reading Stan's link the suffragettes score a mention in relation to refusing to complete returns - I'm sure my lot would have been in there fighting - maybe they will be missing from the census :o :o
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Will people even bother to research the genealogy of the current generation, when so few actually bother to get married these days ?
Working out who is the father of whom will be a nightmare ! Especially with single parent families :o ::)
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Will people even bother to research the genealogy of the current generation, when so few actually bother to get married these days ?
Working out who is the father of whom will be a nightmare ! Especially with single parent families :o ::)
Although many don't marry, they do live as couples and fathers are mentioned on birth certificates, so I doubt it will be a nightmare. Rather like the parish councils, fathers are chased by "welfare" to pay for their children - things don't change as much as we think :)
As many women no longer change their names, it may be easier to track them - thus said one couple in my extended family married, they both kept their own surnames and their child has the mother's surname. That one may be tricky to trace :o
Trish
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I am also assuming that in the future genealogy will be helped by the fact that other information about us all may be readily available online and make searching a little easier, especially if we have ID cards, no doubt they will be published online :P ::) ;D
Kerry
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I am also assuming that in the future genealogy will be helped by the fact that other information about us all may be readily available online and make searching a little easier, especially if we have ID cards, no doubt they will be published online :P ::) ;D
Kerry
Gosh Kerry, you will have the privacy fanatics after your blood with comments like that & the Govt will be so disorganised they probably won't know who is who even with ID cards. Our lot can't even get a "smart card" to work for bus fares - what hope for an ID card.
Meanwhile, as mentioned on another thread, and stated many times by my father - to the horror of my mother - no one could ever be 100% sure of who was their father. DNA may change the odds :)
Trish
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Wo knows, your grnealogy may be a simple as taking a saliva test. Too easy and not challenging
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Although many don't marry, they do live as couples and fathers are mentioned on birth certificates, so I doubt it will be a nightmare.......
Well, whilst not wanting to pre-judge, it's certainly not unusual these days to find women with 3 or more children, all with different fathers ! At least with Victorian genealogy, when you found the father of one, you usually could put his name to all of them (well, on paper, anyway ;) ). I'm sure genealogists in 100 years time will have as many challenges as we do, but just different ones. I suppose living in a nanny state with "big brother" recording our every move will benefit someone, even if it is in 100 years time ! :)
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Nick29 I would disagree, the parish registers and bastardy records are littered with cases of mothers fathering children by different men.
Cheers
Guy
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my children dont have different fathers but i am not married to their father and he is only on the middles ones birth cert as that is the only time he came to the reg. office :-\
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Nick29 I would disagree, the parish registers and bastardy records are littered with cases of mothers fathering children by different men.
Cheers
Guy
Also agree with Guy. I know of many cases in 1800s were unmarried women had children by different fathers. In one particular case a local woman had 2 sons by one man, another son by someone else, several children with unknown fathers and then a child supposed to be by man she eventually married. At least 4 of the children were known by their fathers' surnames although their births were registered under her surname.
Although it sound as though she wasn't a 'good' person she not only raised all her children but ended up in later years caring for 3 sets of grandchildren when their mothers died and all the family turned out well.
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Yes I saw two further chldren by an ancestor after being widowed, no mention of father
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Nick29 I would disagree, the parish registers and bastardy records are littered with cases of mothers fathering children by different men.
Cheers
Guy
I'm not saying it didn't happen - in those days it was not something that was considered "respectable", so it was often covered up (a child born to an unmarried daughter "adopted" by its grandparents, for example). These days it's much more common, or at least it's more out in the open, and very few worry about it these days. One of the daughters of my g. g. aunt was made pregnant by her employer whilst she was working as a live-in servant, and the settlement paid out by the man in question to keep it quiet enabled her parents to buy their own farm ! ::)
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FindmyPast Newsletter
Findmypast.com, in association with the National Archives, will be managing the launch of the 1911 census, in 2009. This mammoth project is underway at this very moment.
www.1911census.co.uk will be the first, and for a time the only place to access the 1911 census online.
If you haven't already, then be sure to register on the site in order to receive the latest updates and be among the first to use the census at its launch.
Between now and the 2009 launch we’ll be sending regular updates and imparting some useful tips and background information to ensure you get the most from this exciting new census.
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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Hi Newf
That's good news :D
Does this mean that those of us with existing subscriptions can just use it or will they up the sub?
Gadget
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The Women's Freedom League, a suffragette organisation, arranged a boycott of the 1911 census. We've already found three apparent sympathisers. One of them, who left the census return otherwise blank, has written:
‘No vote – no census. In view of restrictive legislation… I refuse to give details of my household asked for in this document'.
Another - who has partially completed the form – declares:
'If I am intelligent enough to fill in this paper, I am intelligent enough to put a cross on a voting paper.'
She also lists '6 females - addresses and names unknown' who, we can guess, were fellow suffragettes. Many attended all-night parties or stayed with friends to avoid participation.
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'If I am intelligent enough to fill in this paper, I am intelligent enough to put a cross on a voting paper.'
She also lists '6 females - addresses and names unknown' who, we can guess, were fellow suffragettes. Many attended all-night parties or stayed with friends to avoid participation.
Just wish one was mine 8) 8) 8)
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I dont know about a sub, I'm not a subscriber to findmypast .... I expect the info will be on the site ?
Tati - sure it wasnt yer Great Nan ? :P
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I think a few of us would have been there with them 8)
Mine were too busy having kids and being good Coop/Methodists in those days :-\
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No real answer to your question about subscriptions Gadget. :-\
Perhaps they haven't decided the finer points yet. ;D
It would be nice if the 1911 was included in the current sub, but as this is an opportunity to rake in some cash, I very much doubt that it will be. I think they'll only allow access via the link that newf posted, and it'll be pay per view to pay for the cost of the project and to maximise profits;D.
What's going to happen with Ancestry - when will they get the 1911?
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Is it just me ???
I'm sure there will be the odd little gem of new information, but I find it hard to get very excited about the 1911. I mean . . . well, it was less than a decade before my father was born.
. . . now if it was the 1811 that really would be something else . . . 8)
Maybe I'm just looking at it the wrong way :-\
Mike
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I think it might be just you Mike! ;)
I guess it's just that the timing may just not be right for you.
I hope to find many of my OH's relatives, especially excited about the possiblilty of finding his illusive g grandfather. (none of my own though)
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Well, for people like me who aren't lucky enough to have elderly relatives, the 1911 census is very exciting - loooking forward to giving a definite home to a dozen or more 'orphaned' children in my database! 8) 8)
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I think it might be just you Mike! ;)
Yeah, I think you may be right ;)
The 1911 will be a great boon to younger researchers just starting out, but in all honesty I think, after about 5 years, I've just about come to the end of the line as far as internet research is concerned. I have found all of my 3xgt.grandparents and more than half of their parents, which takes me back into the mid-18th century, with many lines back to the 16th. I'm not so interested in the side branches beyond siblings of direct ancestors . . . creating a "family hedge" as someone so eloquently described it on RC 8)
I think my best hope now is to plan a series of family history themed holidays and visit all the places my ancestors frequented, so that I can explore some of the records directly.
Maybe we should have a section of RC devoted to earlier research?
Mike. :)
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I've gone 'further back' with the research too, but still curious to know what some of them were up to in 1911.
As for the illusive g grandfather - I'm not sure if I even have him in one census although he was born in 1861/2. I have found someone who MAY be him but he uses a different forename although he appears to be in the correct family group. So in this case I need to go forward in order to go backwards. I need to find his place of birth so I can find his birth record etc etc. ;D
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I've gone so far back on one line, I might have A & E in my tree but I'm still fascinated to see my Mum and Dad there for the first time 8) and also, of course all the collaterals - it's the tracing forward that's the most difficult in many cases not the tracing back and the 1911 will help with this.
Gadget
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I know I'm probably the last one to find this 1911 website - you can register so they keep you updated with news about the census. I'm posting it in case there's anyone else like me who missed it!
http://www.1911census.co.uk/index.php
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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Well for someone like me, who's Grandfather was away at sea for the 1881, 1891 and 1901, to actually find him at home in 1911 will be a real bonus. He should be on it as they had several kids around that time...gotta retire from sea sometime!!
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Do you suppose Ancestry will have the 1911, or will those of us who use that have to change subscriptions ?? I can't think that Ancestry will be wanting to loose customers !
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Do you suppose Ancestry will have the 1911, or will those of us who use that have to change subscriptions ?? I can't think that Ancestry will be wanting to loose customers !
The 1911 census has been awarded to brightsolid (formerly Scotland Online) which operates ScotlandsPeople and findmypast - see:
http://www.1911census.co.uk/
Anna
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see my post now merged into this thread - initially, FindMyPast (part of the group AVM mentions) will have the monopoly, and doubtless will charge like a wounded bull :D
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The email from findmypast said
www.1911census.co.uk will be the first, and for a time the only place to access the 1911 census online.
So other companies will be able to produce their own scans and indexes at a later time
Bob
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Heres some of my thoughts on 1911 and what might flow from it.
Addresses for each household - you will be able to extrapolate backwards on families which stayed in the same house and find actual houses in previous censuses etc - many addresses previous to 1911 just give a village as the address. - There will also be alot of interst in maps and address liastings from that era
1912- was the time mothers maiden name was put on birth indexes and spouses surname put on marriage indexes. If such as free BMD fills in years after that, building the family hedge as someone said will be straightforward.
You may not be that interested in finding dozens of living cousins but the other thing I see growing iin family/place history is collaboration.
I decided to 'model' all the inhabitants of an ancestor's village (in ancestry initially) and out of a 400-600 people village, I would have at least 20-30 current ancestry members with ancestors.
If we all share our 'general' information about the village we are all potentialy 10-20 times better off for info.
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it wouldnt be very good releasing the 1811 census as it doest tell you anything!
1831 you might be able to get something from, to put the tithe maps of 1836 online, now that would be great
you'd know who was in each household and exactly where they were living.
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it wouldnt be very good releasing the 1811 census as it doest tell you anything!
It depends very much on the area. I have an 1811 for part of north London which lists all the household heads, their occupations and how many were in the household. I've also got a full listing of houselholds with ages for a Scottish Parish from 1794 and the St Asaph Notitia of 1681 is Online.
Still looking forward to the 1911 though :)
Gadget
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Hi
I have not been paying attention to the info on the 1911 census, ( I thought it was a long way off) but these pages have sparked my interest. I looked at the website and have read through a few of these pages, but I am still not sure - what is it that you can gain access to 2009? How is the census going to be gradually introduced? I hope a don't sound 'a bit thick'. But if some one can explain simply I'd appreciate it. ::)
Cheers
Wendy
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Theres not much more I'm aware of than the News pages of that site ..... there is detail of why its being phase-released early on the National Archives site ......
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/1911census/
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There will be minor restrictions on the information released in 2009, in that the column relating to disabilities is blanked out until the full release in 2012. But apart from that, there is more detail than on previous years; married women were asked how long they had been married, and how many children, living and dead, had been born of that marriage. There is also a bit more detail on occupations, and for the first time the whole of the British Army is enumerated, including regiments stationed abroad.
Brightsolid/ScotlandOnline/Findmypast are TNA's Licensed Internet Associate for 1911, but after it is fully released in 2012 other companies will be able to buy non-exclusive licences as they can already for earlier censuses and other records, and index them for their own websites. No doubt this will include all the 'usual suspects', Ancestry etc...
This census is also roughly contemporary with the Valuation Office Survey 'Lloyd George's Domesday' so it will be a wonderful opportunity to combine census data with detailed information about places - local history heaven!
Mean_genie
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Questions Asked in the 1911 Census
1. Name and Surname
2. Sex
3. Age in Years
4. Relationship to Head of Household
5. Condition as to Marriage
6. Birthplace
7. Nationality
8. Personal Occupation
9. Whether Employer
10. Employed
11. Working on Own Account
12. At Home
13. Unemployed (must name usual occupation)
14. Employer’s Business
15. Language Spoken; Gaelic (Scotland); Welsh (Wales)
16. Houses inhabited – Number of.
17. Houses inhabited – By how many families occupied.
18. Houses being built.
19. Houses uninhabited.
20. Number of Rooms in Household; England and Wales
21. Number of Rooms with one or more windows; Scotland
22. Attending School part or whole time.
23. Receiving regular instruction at home.
24. Children born alive, still living or died, of present marriage.
25. Duration of Present Marriage.
26. Deaf, Dumb, Blind, Lunatic etc.
Stan
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I think we would all appreciate an idea of which areas will be released first, and roughly the order in which others will follow.
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i thought major cities were going to be released first wth other areas being phased in generally so some places outin the sticks might not get the 1911 census for a while, but i am not sure now,
also wasn't religion included in the questions ?
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i thought major cities were going to be released first wth other areas being phased in generally so some places outin the sticks might not get the 1911 census for a while, but i am not sure now,
also wasn't religion included in the questions ?
The questions are exactly what I have posted. The only time there was a question about Religion was in 1851 when it was a separate Voluntary Enquiry.
Stan
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i thought major cities were going to be released first with other areas being phased in generally so some places out in the sticks might not get the 1911 census for a while
That's what I mean - that information has been out for ages and is extremely vague. I wish they would go into a bit more detail about which areas can be expected first (and last!)
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also wasn't religion included in the questions ?
Only in that a minister or priest, when stating his occupation, had to give his denomination.
Stan
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Note that (numbered ?) street address should be included in most cases.
It will clear up ambiguous cases
This will be very significant although chatters over 50 would mostly have a fair idea where (probably) grandparents lived in 1911.
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Note that (numbered ?) street address should be included in most cases.
It will clear up ambiguous cases
This will be very significant although chatters over 50 would mostly have a fair idea where (probably) grandparents lived in 1911.
Are you sure about that ? If you're over 50 (which I am), then your grandparents almost certainly won't be alive, and it's also quite possible that your parents won't be either (mine are not). I know where the grandparents lived in 1901 (I got that from the census), but I've no idea where they lived in 1911, and none of my cousins seem to know, either. I know where my mother's mother lived in the 1930's (when my mother got married), but I've no idea when my grandmother moved there.
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I am over 50 ;) (just!) and my 4 grandparents were born from 1891- 1900.
I know where 3 of them were living in 1911.
That's only because of addresses on birth certs of younger siblings though.
Carol
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I'm a few + years over 50 and I know where my grandparents were living - both sets within about 20 yards of each other (and their son and daughter both at home ;) ). A widower great was living with one set of grandparents, my one set of greats were a bit further along the road and the other great about 1/2 mile away.
For a lot of roving ancestors, they seemed to have settled down by then :D
Gadget
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Do you suppose Ancestry will have the 1911, or will those of us who use that have to change subscriptions ?? I can't think that Ancestry will be wanting to loose customers !
Had an e-mail today from 'Findmypast', the Official site that will have it. Even their Subscribers are going to have to pay EXTRA to view it as it's a 'pay-to-view' site so it may as well just stay as an on-line site of its own.
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Hi
Emails from FindMyPast have indicated that they will be the only site with it at first.
I won't want to pay any extra money for it
I loathe ppv and want subscriptions
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Hmm
I'm still awaiting an email from FindMyPast despite being a subscriber. I wonder if they are introducing it as ppv to begin with to stop any chance of a repeat of the 1901 release - meltdown. ::)
Kerry
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Hi
Emails from FindMyPast have indicated that they will be the only site with it at first.
I won't want to pay any extra money for it
I loathe ppv and want subscriptions
Me too ! Subs Credits wouldn't be so bad if they lasted more than about 10 minutes before they expired. I know I now pay a lot of money for a World subscription, but I don't have to worry about how many pages I'm viewing. Because of a mis-transcription, I once had to trawl through about 40 pages of census to find my great-grandparents, and I'm glad I wasn't paying per page then. :o
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YEs those really difficult to find people are a pain - I have one wh does not appear on the 1901 even though I know where he was in 1898.
Bob
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Although I now subscribe to FindMyPast, I still have a pile of credits left over from the old days. I wonder if I will be able to use them to view the 1911?
Gadget
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Good point Gadget, I have quite a stash of them too which now never seem to get used but remain on my account. This may be a good use of them if they don't delete them first. ::)
Kerry
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Not sure why they would go PPV - I'd have thought it would add extra overhead compared to subscription
--The extra overhead to meter every item viewed.
--The numbe of people getting the info anyway by doing excessive searches - i remember you could download a 1901 extractor from another site which would collate all the searchable info - which gave you most of what you would want to see.
As I see it most people wpuld only want to view the originals for close fmily - either 2 grandparent families or 4 great grandparent families. Older than that is unlikely to be on 1911
Then perhaps sibling families if you are really keen.
Thoase wanting to do one-name or one place or doing descendent charts would wait for subscription
Plus if they went the subscriptions they have a chance of poaching regular subscribers from ancestry etc - how many people would justify more than one subscription ?
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No I want to see Cenuses from Everyone on my tree, but I may go to National archives as I am not with FindMyPast (and they are probably going to charge extra)
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I'd be looking for great great grandparents and also some great great great grandparents, and for once it looks like I'm with the right company ;D
Kerry
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No I want to see Cenuses from Everyone on my tree, but I may go to National archives as I am not with FindMyPast (and they are probably going to charge extra)
Have contacted FindMyPast and yes, when the 1911 Census starts it will be a pay-to-view site even to Full ubscription holders, but in time, prob when the initial rush is over, (how many years is that?) it will be included in tne Subscrition, but, who is to say what the cost of that subscription might be then?
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i predict problems
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I predict the full sub will still be less than the competition will be charging ;D ;D ;D
Kerry
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I don't think there will be problems, but I think there will be a few full members of FindMyPast who will be a bit miffed about having to pay. I've just been looking at the site at http://www.1911census.co.uk and I don't feel too bad about having to pay, because for the first time it looks like you will be able to find census returns by street address (no more wading through pages of streets to find the right one), and you'll also be able to look at actual census returns, and not the scribblings of emunerators. Just hope that your ancestors had good handwriting ! ;D
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Am I missing something here? If the 1911 site is ppv, there will be no point in subscripbing to FindMyPast. I was intending to drop Ancestry next year & join FindMyPast, but there seems no need now
Steve
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Nick
I've been a full member of FindMyPast for about a year now, before that I had bought PPV credits and I have 32 left that I have been meaning to email FindMyPast about. However now I know what I can use them on :D :D :D
Depending on what they charge of course ::)
Kerry
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I think the reason they have decided to go pay-per-view is to stop individuals with a subscription offering look-up's for others, this way they ensure they make maximum profit, and let's face it when the time comes we won't be able to resist the temptation and will pay whatever it takes!
Sue
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Am I missing something here? If the 1911 site is ppv, there will be no point in subscripbing to FindMyPast. I was intending to drop Ancestry next year & join FindMyPast, but there seems no need now
Steve
I did just that a month ago BECAUSE I thought it would INCLUDE the new 1911 Census. How wrong I was. However, I only want to look up one address that I knew who lived there in 1910. If you've followed my searches, your know where that is.
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Am I missing something here? If the 1911 site is ppv, there will be no point in subscripbing to FindMyPast. I was intending to drop Ancestry next year & join FindMyPast, but there seems no need now
Steve
I think they've made a silly move - I was contemplating getting full membership of FindMyPast too, but there doesn't seem a lot of point now. Although I wasn't going to let my Ancestry membership lapse. Instead FindMyPast might get a few quid out of me for a few detailed searches. Seems like bad marketing to me.
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Nick
I've been a full member of FindMyPast for about a year now, before that I had bought PPV credits and I have 32 left that I have been meaning to email FindMyPast about. However now I know what I can use them on :D :D :D
Depending on what they charge of course ::)
Kerry
I think I've got 218 credits that are still hanging around from before they offered subs - that's a lot of census images :D
Gadget
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Nick
I've been a full member of FindMyPast for about a year now, before that I had bought PPV credits and I have 32 left that I have been meaning to email FindMyPast about. However now I know what I can use them on :D :D :D
Depending on what they charge of course ::)
Kerry
I think I've got 218 credits that are still hanging around from before they offered subs - that's a lot of census images :D
Gadget
...as long as they don't put a expirery date on them BEFORE the 1911 Census pops up!
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I've been holding on to mine for over a year and the expiry date runs concurrent with my subscription ;D ;D ;D
Kerry
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I don't think so because they are carried forward with the subscription renewal.
Units all have an expiry date, however if you purchase a new subscription or price plan before the expiry of the outstanding one, your remaining units will be carried forward to your new expiry date.
Gadget
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Nick
I've been a full member of FindMyPast for about a year now, before that I had bought PPV credits and I have 32 left that I have been meaning to email FindMyPast about. However now I know what I can use them on :D :D :D
Depending on what they charge of course ::)
Kerry
I think I've got 218 credits that are still hanging around from before they offered subs - that's a lot of census images :D
Gadget
Yes, but just one snag - your credits are with FindMyPast, and the 1911 census is going to be hosted on www.1911census.co.uk :-\
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Nick from the 1911 website ( www.1911census.co.uk ):
The National Archives is delighted to announce that brightsolid has been awarded the contract to digitise the 1911 census for England and Wales. brightsolid's genealogy subsidiary Find My Past will be making the census available online through a dedicated website at 1911census.co.uk, as well as through its own site at findmypast.com.
My emphasis :)
Gadget
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I hope their information is correct, Gadget :)
I was thinking about taking out a FindMyPast sub myself, but having a dedicated 1911 site has put me off somewhat.
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When FindMyPast put the outgoing passenger lists online it was (and still is) on a dedicated website 'Ancestors On Board'. You can access the records through the main FindMyPast site if you have an appropriate subscription, but if you only want to look at the passenger lists there is the PPV option through Ancestors on Board. I can't remember if the subscription option was there from the outset, or if it was PPV only to start with. When The Genealogist released the nonconformist registers on BMDregisters.co.uk that was PPV only, but after a while it was added to one of the subscription packages on their main site.
They have to have a PPV option for the 1911 census because it is a condition of their Licenced Internet Associateship (LIA) with TNA - the other LIAs are The Genealogist for the nonconformist registers (on BMDregisters),GenesReunited for the 1901 Census and Ancestry for the rest of the census, WWI service records and STOP PRESS, just released today, the incoming passenger lists 1878-1960.
They don't yet seem to have a link on the Ancestry site itself, but you can get to it through the announcement on TNA's own website
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/214.htm?homepage=news (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/214.htm?homepage=news)
Mean_genie
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STOP PRESS, just released today, the incoming passenger lists 1878-1960.
They don't yet seem to have a link on the Ancestry site itself
Yes, I was very excited to find this today.
There is a link on the homepage of Ancestry.com, in the section What's Happening At Ancestry.
Anna :)
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Nick from the 1911 website ( www.1911census.co.uk ):
The National Archives is delighted to announce that brightsolid has been awarded the contract to digitise the 1911 census for England and Wales. brightsolid's genealogy subsidiary Find My Past will be making the census available online through a dedicated website at 1911census.co.uk, as well as through its own site at findmypast.com.
My emphasis :)
Gadget
Hmmm... it does say that - but compare this extract from the "Official 1911 census newsletter" I've just this minute received:
Spread the word
1911census.co.uk will be, at launch and for some considerable time after, the only place to access the 1911 census online
Anna ???
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Someone had better tell them to take that announcement off the Home page then as it could be regarded as a breach of something or other.
No doubt I will p to v the first sighting of my parents and my other relatives and probably even do some look ups for others whatever the arrangements.
Gadget :)
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Yes, but they do say that FindMyPast credits will be usable on the 1911 census site.
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Yes, but they do say that FindMyPast credits will be usable on the 1911 census site.
All 218 of them
8) 8) 8) 8)
;D
I presume then that they are going to use our username to link to our main FindMyPast account so why separate them :-\
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And if my understanding is correct that is what mean_genie has described above for the Ancestors on Board, which was also first held on a separate site but accessed through the main FindMyPast site.
I can't wait to see my great grandparents newly married and expecting my gran some 6 months later. After the marriage certificate that I have for them it is the first proof available that they were who I think they were. ::)
Kerry
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I think that if they didn't separate the sites, people with full FindMyPast subs would expect free access to the 1911 census.
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Absolutely agree but throwing aside the cynicism for a moment, I think they are probably doing it in a bid to stop the meltdown that occurred when the 1901 was launched. They are possibly hoping people will wait till they can use their subs and so a gradual usage will happen.
The cynical side of me thinks its for profit, but then this is FindMyPast we are talking about and no its main rival ::)
Kerry
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Hmmm..... they're already opening it up in stages to prevent melt-down. I'll still be an old cynic, and choose option #2 ;) ;D
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I wonder how many people have actually paid the £45 or whatever it is to get census records before it is released. It would be interesting to know.
Kerry
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I can see a huge demand for maps etc showing the locations of actual houses by street address around 1911.
You can extrapolate backwards and make a good guess where families lived in earlier census'
And again - the closeness of 1911 to 1912 where BMD indexes start giving spouses name for marriages and mothers maiden name for births will allow families to be 'reconstructed' forwards. It might push demand for such as freeBMD to push on in the 1900s
If (as I suspect) family history fans start modelling entire communities, by the time he next census (after 1911) is released it might tend to be be used for confirmation only, rather than a 'roadmap' to the BMD.
Can anyone think of or predict any other flow on effects from the 1911 ? I imagine ancestry.com might suffer a bit until it gets access - although comments in here suggest some people might wait before dropping subscriptions.
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I'm sure you're right about the maps. Alan Godfrey should see somes healthy sales figures because they have published quite a lot of maps around that date.
The 1911 Census also roughly coincides with the Valuation Office Survey 'Lloyd George's Domesday' which is a fantastic source for local history/house history/community history. Unfortunately this can be a bit tricky to use, although it is well worth the effort.
FreeBMD is already making pretty good progress with the 20th Century indexes - every time I look at their coverage charts I'm surprised at how much has been added - so by the time 1911 starts to be released there should be a pretty good overlap.
And don't forget all those names on the Commonwealth War Graves site and on war memorials that we'll be able to match up with the census. The poor things had no idea what was coming.
The new TNA publication 'Census - the Expert Guide' by Peter Christian and David Annal has a whole chapter on 1911, including some case studies and illustrations.
Mean_genie
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You can extrapolate backwards and make a good guess where families lived in earlier census'
You could try that with my lot, and get nowhere. They never sat still for 5 minutes. As the centuries progress, people get more and more mobile. What we will also see in 1911 is fewer women going into domestic service, and going into light industry and clerical work instead.
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I also suspect that the birthrate is already slowing down in 1911.
Britain was a huge baby factory during the latter 1800s - as we can see in the census. The country was spectacularly succesful at producing huge numbers of people to populate an empire
maybe 3-7 is the most common number of kids rather then the 7-14 of 50 years previous
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The cynical side of me thinks its for profit, but then this is FindMyPast we are talking about and no its main rival ::)
And you don't think FindMyPast wants profits? This is the site that won't offer the option of a month's access ....
I was disappointed with the email, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I would like to have some idea of the order in which they will release the regions, and a rough timescale. They are surely in a position to say, for instance, we are releasing London, then Birmingham, then Liverpool or whatever.
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I'm sure you're right about the maps. Alan Godfrey should see some healthy sales figures because they have published quite a lot of maps around that date.
Already have the maps....... ;D
mab
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And you don't think FindMyPast wants profits? This is the site that won't offer the option of a month's access ....
Anyone who thinks that any of these family tree sites is in it for anything other than money is living in cloud-cuckoo land (IMHO).
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The cynical side of me thinks its for profit, but then this is FindMyPast we are talking about and no its main rival ::)
And you don't think FindMyPast wants profits? This is the site that won't offer the option of a month's access ....
I was disappointed with the email, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I would like to have some idea of the order in which they will release the regions, and a rough timescale. They are surely in a position to say, for instance, we are releasing London, then Birmingham, then Liverpool or whatever.
I am sure that FindMyPast want profits! ::) They are running a business after all not a charity ::) ::)
However they just seem to have a few more scruples than Ancestry, ie they care about getting transcriptions correct and they reply if you contact them.
Kerry
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they are releasing major cities first
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And again - the closeness of 1911 to 1912 where BMD indexes start giving spouses name for marriages and mothers maiden name for births will allow families to be 'reconstructed' forwards.
I think that once the Dove/Magpie projects eventually come about and get unstuck from the mire, there will then be spouses names, mother's maiden names, and age at deaths for all dates
Bob
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I also suspect that the birthrate is already slowing down in 1911.
Britain was a huge baby factory during the latter 1800s - as we can see in the census. The country was spectacularly succesful at producing huge numbers of people to populate an empire
maybe 3-7 is the most common number of kids rather then the 7-14 of 50 years previous
The number of births registered 1881-1890 was 1,778,048, for 1891-1900 it was 1,831,030, and for the years 1901-1910 it was 1,859,642
The number registered in 1903 at 948,271 was the highest from the start of civil registration.
Office of National Statistics
Stan
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they are releasing major cities first
We have known that for some time though. Surely by now they can give a little more detail than that.
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I think this is a perfect example of 'treat em mean,keep em keen'.
They'll wait until loads of us have purchased credits as Xmas presents etc and then tell us that the first place to go live is some obscure place that no one's ever heard of. ;D
Carol
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Hi
I wouldn't be purchasing credits for FindMyPast with the intention of using them on the 1911 census until you know for certain when or if they can be used. I suspect that they won't be usuable until the census is accessable through FindMyPast itself and not a separate website. This may well be a couple of years away. The National Archives and FindMyPast, depending upon who outlaid the money, will want to recover as much of the cost of digitizing and indexing as possible. I suspect that it will be dearer than earlier censuses.
Hopefully they will inform us about the proposed costs to access the information soon.
Andy
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Am I missing something here? If the 1911 site is ppv, there will be no point in subscripbing to FindMyPast. I was intending to drop Ancestry next year & join FindMyPast, but there seems no need now
Steve
Precisely what I what I was thinking of doing and probably won't for now.
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I wonder how many people have actually paid the £45 or whatever it is to get census records before it is released. It would be interesting to know.
Kerry
Asking TNA and citing the Freedom of Information Act should get you that information.
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I also suspect that the birthrate is already slowing down in 1911.
Britain was a huge baby factory during the latter 1800s - as we can see in the census. The country was spectacularly succesful at producing huge numbers of people to populate an empire
maybe 3-7 is the most common number of kids rather then the 7-14 of 50 years previous
The number of births registered 1881-1890 was 1,778,048, for 1891-1900 it was 1,831,030, and for the years 1901-1910 it was 1,859,642
The number registered in 1903 at 948,271 was the highest from the start of civil registration.
Office of National Statistics
Stan
Thanks for that - what I might have been detecting could have been more localised - a rural area - perhaps the flow of people to cities and the cities taking over child production ?
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That kind of information was published in the Registrar General's Reports and the Census Reports, and you can look at them on the Histpop website
http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/
If you are interested in the populaion trends in a particular area then Vision of Britain is very good
http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/
Mean_genie
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Births: 1837-1937 Live births, (a) quarter of registration
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/xsdataset.asp?More=Y&vlnk=4202&All=Y&B2.x=44&B2.y=6
Stan
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Find My Past have now published their proposed list of charges for the 1911 census.
http://www.findmypast.com/paymentOptions/payperview.jsp
Not as bad as I thought ;D
Mind you I bet I'll have far more to look for than I think I do at the moment.
Carol
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Thanks Carol for drawing my attention to that, no not too bad and presumably as already mentioned those of us who have subscriptions and unused pay per view will be able to use them for the 1911. ;D Just wish I had a few more though
Kerry
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so is that 3 units then
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I've just re-read that page and am now not sure how much they intend to charge :(
They say you can purchase vouchers as gifts to view the 1911.
I'm confused
Carol
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wel it says to view the census it costs 3 units but does this include the 1911 census?
60 units plan
(Valid for 90 days) £6.95
280 units plan
(Valid for 365 days) £24.95
how many units I will be charged?
Census image 3 units
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Agreed Toni
http://www.findmypast.com/paymentOptions/subscriptions/index.jsp doesn't yet include if it will the 1911
Kerry
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This page seems to suggest vouchers cannot be used only ppv
http://www.findmypast.com/1911census.jsp
Kerry
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Exactly Kerry - see my problem ;D
I wish I'd never looked at it now !
I'm more confused than ever.
Glad it's not just me then.
Carol
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They've shot themselves in the foot - if they had the 1911 census on subscription from the start, I'd happily(?) shell out £89.95 for an Explorer subscription now, but instead I'll just wait and see if I can get on the 1911 census website when it goes live, and spend £24.95 for 280 units.
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me too Nick
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I do not see anywhere where this refers to the new 1911 census. If you open FindMyPast, this is the standard offer for current prices. No mention of 1911.
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You have to go to the census page and click the link below 1911 census or click the link I put up earlier to go there directly ;D
Kerry
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Isn't the 1911 census going on a separate website to begin with though? I don't think the prices Findmypast quote for their main website will include the 1911.
Anne
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You have to go to the census page and click the link below 1911 census or click the link I put up earlier to go there directly ;D
Kerry
Yes, and when you do and go on through what the offers cover, under Census, the dates stop at 1901.
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I think one can reasonably infer that:
1. Until some unspecified future date, FindMyPast subscriptions will not provide access to the 1911 census.
2. However, FindMyPast units will be usable on the 1911 census site.
3. If you want to assist somebody else to purchase such units, you can buy them a voucher e.g. for Christmas!
The information about the release remains sufficiently vague that one cannot tell:
- whether, if you buy a 90 day unit plan, any of the counties you're interested in will have been released before the expiry of the 90 days, or
- how long we subscribers will have to wait before access is included in the subscription, and accordingly how many units we should buy to cover the interim period.
I for one will not be buying any units at all until they give us some idea which counties they are releasing at which times.
Anna
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With my old units, I've just calculated that I'll be able to view 72 images and have 2 over. I'm not sure I've got that many families to look at :-\
Gadget
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I loath ppv and can't imagine ever using it seriously for more than a small number of items
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Thanks Anna for a succinct summary :) ;)
Kerry
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I loath ppv and can't imagine ever using it seriously for more than a small number of items
Me too, but I think the 1911 census will be slightly easier to navigate, and it's one sheet per household.
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wel it says to view the census it costs 3 units but does this include the 1911 census?
60 units plan
(Valid for 90 days) £6.95
280 units plan
(Valid for 365 days) £24.95
how many units I will be charged?
Census image 3 units
7 quid for 20 families ? add a pound for printing out costs and its still perhaps a hundred times more info than a BMD certificate.
I could probably do my whole village for 50 quid - I might be on as soon as it is available. Cant see the price lowering the demand much
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Just a thought - Find My Past hasn't got the 1851 census at all, and 6 years after the release of the 1901 census, they are still to get the whole of it online.
Should I be worrying about FindMyPast's ability to host the 1911 census ?
Will we be seeing a repeat of the fiasco that surrounded the release of the 1901 census ?
I realise that FindMyPast were not involved in the 1901 census fiasco, but I'm a bit wary about buying credits to view the 1911 census on a site that I may not be able to get onto for months ::)
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Ha ha ;D Nick
FindMyPast announced the first two counties of the 1851 ------ yesterday ;D ;D ;D Norfolk and Derbyshire or Dorset I think
Kerry
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Norfolk and Dorset Kerry ;D
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There you go! I knew it began with D ;D
Kerry
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Not quite true. FindMyPast has got some of the 1851 census and more being added. Also as FindMyPast have the rights to the 1911 Census, you aren't going to see it anywhere else and other than '2009' no firm date has been given.
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Not quite true. FindMyPast has got some of the 1851 census and more being added. Also as FindMyPast have the rights to the 1911 Census, you aren't going to see it anywhere else and other than '2009' no firm date has been given.
Yes, I'm aware of that. My point was that I'm already able to view the 1851 census on two other sites that I currently subscribe to, and I've been able to do that for quite some time (and the 1901 census in its entirety, for that matter). Given the obvious limited resources of FindMyPast, should I be holding my breath for the release of the 1911 census ? Or will they struggle with the demand ?
Also, although the exact terms of the deal don't appear to have surfaced yet, FindMyPast will only have purchased the rights to the 1911 census for a finite period. After that period has elapsed, don't be at all surprised to see the 1911 census on the majority of the genealogy sites, just like all the other censuses are.
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Should I be worrying about FindMyPast's ability to host the 1911 census ?
Will we be seeing a repeat of the fiasco that surrounded the release of the 1901 census ?
yes and yes
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I agree Toni
Somehow they always underestimate the interest at launch - can't imagine why, surely hits on websites must show how many people are interested in family history currently!
It happens everytime there is a new launch or a special offer on one of these websites, what about all the problems currently with Ancestry because military records are free for the duration of November! ::)
Kerry
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and bringing the release date forward doesnt leave them 10 years in betwixt census to fix the problems with the last one ::)
plus don't forget some 'sensitive' information wil not be able to view until 2011 i.e. the disability section.
we may all moan about the 100 year rule but in truth your age expectancy is increasing and there are a few people out thee now over 100 years old and so will be shown on the census with their parents names etc, in America it is 70 years but there are a lot of people over 70 years of age andi woul dnot be happy if i was 71 and my personal details were released for everyone to see, but saying that the BMD 1984-2005 is online and anyone can view that and therefore know mothers maiden names at an instance why do the banks ask this for a security question?
and regarding the life expectancy rise runs in line with the rise of divorces - says something there - if i was married i'm sure i would be divorced by now
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........ why do the bansk ask this for a security question?
Because they are really really STUPID ! :)
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........ why do the bansk ask this for a security question?
Because they are really really STUPID ! :)
It's only a suggested question - you can change it to anything you wish. Anyway, I'll go and sit patiently and wait to spend all my FindMyPast units now 8)
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........ why do the bansk ask this for a security question?
Because they are really really STUPID ! :)
It's only a suggested question - you can change it to anything you wish. Anyway, I'll go and sit patiently and wait to spend all my FindMyPast units now 8)
Try telling that to "Mastercard Secure" - if you forget the password during an online transaction, that's the question they ask if you want to change the password. And you can't change it ::)
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........ why do the bansk ask this for a security question?
Because they are really really STUPID ! :)
It's only a suggested question - you can change it to anything you wish. Anyway, I'll go and sit patiently and wait to spend all my FindMyPast units now 8)
Try telling that to "Mastercard Secure" - if you forget the password during an online transaction, that's the question they ask if you want to change the password. And you can't change it ::)
But you can always give the "wrong" answer when you originally provide the information - I would assume MC S does not check out your mother's birth certificate.
Trish
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I think we should be told the order in which the cities/counties will be released, along with an approximate timescale, without further delay.
If they are not prepared to do this, then they should not sell time-limited units.
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Good point ! :)
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I think we should be told the order in which the cities/counties will be released, along with an approximate timescale, without further delay.
If they are not prepared to do this, then they should not sell time-limited units.
It has been a long time since business (or govt organisations) showed any concern in assisting or advising their customers. Treating we common folks as mushrooms seems to be the order of the day & will probably continue. If you don't say anything - you can't be wrong - seems to be a common theme.
Trish
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I agree Trish and I'm getting heartely fed up of having to fight with them all the time just to get a service. Didn't get any sort of apology last month for the debacle from Origins. >:( But I digress.
Kerry
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I agree Trish and I'm getting heartely fed up of having to fight with them all the time just to get a service. Didn't get any sort of apology last month for the debacle from Origins. >:( But I digress.
Kerry
I am a cynical digressor or a serial digressor, or both, but I find digression can add to the interest of a thread & to digress again, I see no reason for digression to be frowned upon.
Thus said, to be sure to be sure we are told no lies - we will no doubt hear about access to the census, the day after the data is released on the net. :-X :-X
Trish
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Why should their units have expiry dates anyway? What is the justification for this?
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Why should their units have expiry dates anyway? What is the justification for this?
To make us pay twice,when we don't use them up within the time frame and have to fork out all over again. ::)
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Ah yes, I'm all too aware why they do it. I was just wondering how they could explain it, since they would never admit to that.
I foresee a lot of very angry people who will have bought or been given units, only to find that the info they seek from the 1911 census is still not online when their units expire. Bad PR.
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Sheer profiteering :(
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But sadly all too typical! Is it just family history orgs or is it the same in other sectors as well??
Kerry
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Well, it's a booming industry, which is why the original owners of Genes Reunited, Ancestry and FindMyPast have all sold out to big business.
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Why should their units have expiry dates anyway? What is the justification for this?
The problem with unexpired credits is that they stay on the books as a debt - forever. Many such credits will never be used so the debt will never go away. Putting an expiry date helps clear them up. The accountants love it - the customers are less keen.
I would say that a lengthy expiry period would not be unreasonable - say 2 or 3 years.
However, I do note that ScotlandsPeople do not have an expiry date on their credits - I have some that are a couple of years old, I will have to buy some more to reactivate them, but I will be able to use the lot.
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thanks for explaining that :)
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I would say that a lengthy expiry period would not be unreasonable - say 2 or 3 years.
That would be acceptable. Or say 5 years, even better. But the present system is a rip-off.
The nature of this type of research means that one often has to wait some time for a breakthrough, upon which one might have more look-ups to do. And one is then denied the use of credits that have been fairly paid for.
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I really don't see the situation as a "rip-off" - 12 months seems reasonable and 2 months for 7 pounds also reasonable.
When I started using SP I think the units only lasted 24 hours (I could be wrong on that one) - then it was 7 days. Now it is 3 months. Despite not being completely lost, when they went, you had to buy more to get them back, so you needed to "save up" your searches, which was frustrating.
I didn't like FindMyPast at all when they started - with not very well indexed BDMs. I spent a small fortune finding nothing! That was a true rip-off. I haven't yet been back.
They have many more databases now, so I don't think it would be hard to use the credits in the time period. Thus said, I think I'll wait for the final detail for 1911 before buying anything.
Wonder if Ancestry will try it's own transcription as they did with the Scotland Census?
Trish
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I'm afraid the whole purchase of vouchers thing doesn't sit well with me, because I sit there worrying about how much it's all costing. To find one of my ancestors in a particular census on Ancestry, I had to wade through 30 or 40 pages to find the right entry, and to do that on PPV would have been very expensive.
I'm not sure transcription is so important with the 1911 census, because part of the attraction of this census will be that you will be able to see the census returns themselves, in your ancestor's own handwriting, and not an emunerator's collation. Of course, some help may be required to decypher handwriting, but nothing new there, right ? :)
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I feel a monthly subscrition would be better and would avoid the worry of ppv and would mean you could look at as many records as you like even if it cost more
Jim
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yes but the 1911 census is not available on the subscription Jim
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the point I was trying to make is that the 1911 census should be available on monthly subscription
Jim
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I have to admit with all the uncertainty about when and how the 1911 census would be released I bit the bullet, did some more research to narrow down where my family's address was most likely to be (or even with some degree of certainty after checking electoral rolls for the years before and after, and I had to travel to Wales to do that so it wasn't cheap!) and ordered the census from N.A. and paid my £45.00 just about to do the same to get another one, but I think it's worth it... :)
and I had to save up to do it!
I haven't renewed my Ancestry sub because I'm unsure of whether to go for FindMyPast in the hope that they include it with their subscriber options? but they've decided on vouchers so now I don't know what to do... troubles troubles....
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is the 1911 census going to be searchable on address like the 1881 one?
i know it is now - i.e. pay £45
i know where my great great grandparents (one set) lived in 1911 - visited the house thanks to Sue9 who showed me the way
and i am pretty certain of who was living in the house at the time, children not being old enough to marry but all children of gg grandparents had been born by then.
and the disability section will be still excluded until 2011
I know also where my great grandparents on paternal side lived in 1911 and who was in the house etc.
so if i wanted to i could pre-order these for £45
but i am not entirely sure that i do want to - its the ones i don't know about i want to see
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is the 1911 census going to be searchable on address like the 1881 one?
i know it is now - i.e. pay £45
The 1911 census will be the first one where we will get to see the actual returns forms - all we've ever seen in the past has been the emumerators' transcriptions of what was on the original forms. So you will view the actual forms on a house by house basis. I'm sure that the entries will be indexed by name at some stage, if not immediately.
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Good news! for me and Gadget at any rate ::)
According to this month's Your Family Tree Magazine Findmypast users will be able to use their ppv credits for the 1911 census and there will also be credits available on the 1911 website itself exclusively for the census.
It would appear that it is being rolled out region by region and looks like this maybe a way of decreasing the chances of a repeat of the 1901 meltdown. It will be available via Findmypast subscriptions eventually.
Kerry
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It would appear that it is being rolled out region by region and looks like this maybe a way of decreasing the chances of a repeat of the 1901 meltdown. It will be available via Findmypast subscriptions eventually.
Kerry
I wonder how slowly they roll at Find My Past ;D
One county a week,a month,every few months?
2009 is so close now- why don't they have any more info for us yet?
Still wish they weren't going to be on ppv- your credits get used up so quickly!
Carol
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At least we're not having to wait another 2 years till 2011 to view it ::) ;D
Kerry
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I wonder how slowly they roll at Find My Past ;D
One county a week,a month,every few months?
As I understand it, the major cities will be rolled out first (presumably starting with London ?)
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Don't expect anyone in my tree to be in a major city
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I may be missing the point here but £45 pounds in an extortionate amount to charge for this facility.
I may be spoiled because the Dublin 1911 census is on-line since last year and is FREE without restrictions and there is a schedule to bring the other counties on-line over the next 2 years.
I am attempting to find a single record on the 1901 for a relative who i have calculated was leaving the army to return to Ireland and find it difficult to know whom to use as the sites all seem to require you to subscribe!
I know that they all need to make a profit but the cost of data seems exploitative - i think that it will be cheaper to go to Kew for the afternoon.... Any body have a better / cost effective suggestion to help find a relative in the UK?
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I may be missing the point here but £45 pounds in an extortionate amount to charge for this facility.
I may be spoiled because the Dublin 1911 census is on-line since last year and is FREE without restrictions and there is a schedule to bring the other counties on-line over the next 2 years.
I am attempting to find a single record on the 1901 for a relative who i have calculated was leaving the army to return to Ireland and find it difficult to know whom to use as the sites all seem to require you to subscribe!
Which census are you wanting? The 45 pound only relates to the 1911 census which hasn't been released yet (it will be during next year) and you need to know the exact address. The 1901 census on the otherhand is available on various subscription sites and at some libraries. If its the 1901 census you are interested in then start a separate topic with details of who you are looking for as many people have access to it. If its the 1911 census then you will unfortunately have to wait until its released next year
Andy
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Marc,
As Andy says post a request on the appropriate county board and one of us Rootschatters will do a look up for you.
Alternatively use the original 1901 census website http://www.1901censusonline.com/
It is pay per view rather than subscription.
The reason the Irish 1901 and 1911 censuses are free,is because none before that survived,so they are virtually the only two you can consult for Irish records.
Most of us wouldn't dream of forking out the £45(which needs you to know what address your rellies lived at),and are all waiting patiently ;D for January 2009 when a lot more of the 1911 will be released,and searchable by name.
Regards
Carol
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I may be missing the point here but £45 pounds in an extortionate amount to charge for this facility.
Welcome to the real world.
£45 is equivalent to the fee that has always been charged for accessing details of unreleased census.
There is a lot of work involved in such a task.
First the correct volume out of 35,000 volumes has to be located then the correct schedule has to be found in the volume before searching for the address required.
Cheers
Guy
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Some of it has already been released as pay-per-view (on a Beta site at least). See my post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=348330.new#new
Angelfish x
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Thanks angelfish, as I have ancestors in London I may be very busy tomorrow.
Kerry :)
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site isnt very resilient at the mo ! :(
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working well for me today...really fast searches, and the images are so clear.
Tewin
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I haven't bought any credits
I don't have many on yet, though more than expected, I hadn't realised Middx was on as well as London and Staffs
Bob
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Wiltshire's there too...
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The amusing thing is that they have included a transcription error on the sample transcript
There is a Birthplace of Surrey, Byflist
It clearly is Byfleet
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Well the 1911 has blown my research out of the water, from what i can see i have been following the wrong family, :'( >:(
Daizi
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Looking at the current 'official' sit I get the impression the bulk of the transcription has been done, but they will release it progressively to avoid meltdown.
So if it goes well I can imagine the later stuff won't take that long.
Does this sound like a reasonable assumption ?
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No I don't believe that to be the case
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:D I got the email this morning, and I bought some credits ! :D
I located my dad's dad, who wasn't living where I expected, but he was living with a widowed sister, which posed another conundrum (more on that elsewhere).
The name search couldn't find my mother's family - I searched 3 different names, but no matches. So I entered the street address & number - no match. In the end I clicked on "Detailed Search", and entered the London district, and just the road (without the word street at the end), and it listed all the houses. When I clicked on the house number that I'd previously entered, up came grandpa and grandma, plus 6 children. There were no transcription errors, so I don't know why a name search couldn't find them ?
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That's interesting Nick because I had much the same problem.
Searched for great great grandmum Jane Baldwin, nothing, no match. So I presumed she must have died.
Searched for one of the sons and up he came with another brother and mother, Jane Baldwin exactly what I had searched for.
Kerry :-\
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I've had to look at my in laws - my own ancestors's counties aren't there yet.
Still, I've got FIL and his parents and sister :)
218 credits to use up 8) 8)
Gadget
PS - just remembered my Peacocks in London :D :D :D
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I've received the email, tried the link and absolutely nothing happens. I can't register, I can't buy credits, I can't get off the 'legal' page.
very frustrating!
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Jillie
Are you permanently logged in to FindMyPast main site?
I had troubles at first until I logged out of that.
Carol
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Do you have a 'Sign in' choice towards the right hand side/ top of page?
Gadget
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I visited for the first time yesterday and found
8 more children for the tree and 3 more spouses all in Staffordshire.
Which means lots more 'follow ups' to perhaps trace the descendants of the children and the ancestors of the spouses.
I now have to wait for Lancashire and perhaps solve the mystery of my paternal grandmothers birth location.
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Jillie
Are you permanently logged in to FindMyPast main site?
I had troubles at first until I logged out of that.
Carol
Yes, actually I am! Must give that a try
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Didn't seem a problem for me. I'm automatically logged into FindMyPast when I go there. (unless it's firefox automatically logging me in, and not the FindMyPast keeping me logged in, if you see what I mean).
I had the same problem with it not finding someone by name, but then finding them under an address - fortunately I had a marriage certificate from later in 1911 for one of the children.
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I'm so frustrated! I've emailed them to tell them there is an issue.
I just can't believe it. We finally get DNA confirmation of my husband's grandfather, we can't find out much about him, I get the chance to check him out on the 1911 census and hopefully could have given his two remaining living children some real info about their father.........and I can't get in!!!!!!
Sid bloody Dilley. I know you are out there somewhere!!!!!!
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Everytime i go to download the original image it keep telling me the site is really busy and to wait.
anyone else having this problem or is it just me?
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I've downloaded 3 over the last hour - sweet as pie.
Rog
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I get this :
We’re sorry, the site is very busy at the moment
An exceptional number of people are currently searching for their ancestors. To allow them to complete their searches successfully, we are temporarily limiting the number of people who can access the site. While you are waiting you can see updates on the site on our 1911 blog.
If you were already signed in and searching on the site, don’t worry: your searches and documents will be saved in ‘My records’ and you will not lose any credits.
Thank you for your patience.
The 1911census.co.uk team
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Looks like you might have to get up early and get in tomorrow, before anyone else does ! :)
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But it finishes today Nick....the 22nd Dec.
As it clearly states on the note,the searches will be saved in " My Records" and available to download later.
Is it okay to take a copy of the advice off the 1911 website-they are very strict about what they will and won't allow you to publish.
It's made the screen....t-o-o w-i-d-e too :D
Carol
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i really doubt posting some information about them being busy is against the rules! it doesnt give anythign away.
And i fixed the wideness issue for those that get annoyed ::)
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But it finishes today Nick....the 22nd Dec.
The beta test has been extended until the 24th. After that, most will be preoccupied with other things :)
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Oh I don't know Nick, searching the 1911 could be a refreshing break from the Queen's speech ;) ::)
Kerry
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They sent out more invites today, I got mine at lunch time, so perhaps these new viewers are causing the problem.
I've only about four people I can look for, & they are not related closely enough for me to want to buy credits.
I'll sign out of the site, it might give someone else a chance to get in ;D
Betty
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It just seems to be the one record that isnt working for me now. Mabye they are hiding a secret lol
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Oh I don't know Nick, searching the 1911 could be a refreshing break from the Queen's speech ;) ::)
Kerry
Listening to my mother in law can make a refreshing break from the Queen's speech. She only says what Gordon has told her to say anyway. (That's the Queen, not my mother in law !) ;)
Oooh...... too political ! ;D
Amyway the latest news is that the beta trial has been extended beyond Christmas, and they have suggested that we look at the 1911 census blog for the latest news.
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The blog has been looked at by most of us since the link was given :)
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Is there a forum - or are they afraid there would be too many complaints about the cost ;) ::)
Kerry
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No forum that I can see but they are updating their blog 'as and when'. I've not looked in today - it is Christmas after all and I did my Christmas shopping with them beforehand :)
Maybe they'll have a January sale ;D ;D ;D
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I'm not looking for anymore till its part of my sub. I spent far too much but only looked for those I knew I would find, except my great grandad, have no idea where he was ::)
Kerry
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Merry Christmas 1911 lookers!
I've had a good time and spent far to much Christmas Pennies! Never mind.
Hope it lasts..... but I'm still waiting for Glamorgan.
Pauline.
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So does anyone actually know when the 1911 census will actually be officially launched. I've read the blog on the beta site but still can't work out exactly when we can hope to start viewing it for real.
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Hi Jillie
Sometime this year, which could be anytime between now and 31 December, lets hope sooner rather than later :)
Kerry
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Hi
Yes, lets hope so. I wonder if we will have another 1901 revisisted where the whole site crashes.
Half of my ancestors are in Essex in 1911. I also want Durham. Luckily I have a few ones which is London, Suffolk, Sussex and Oxford which I got from the beta test site.
Ben
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I suppose by beta testing and allowing some of us the privilege of finding some ancestors they are hoping to stop a repeat of the 1901 crash!
I guess many of us now have fewer to search for.
Kerry
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Hi
I think it was also a way for them to cash in while they got the other counties prepared. At least we managed to find many of ours.
Ben
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I suppose by beta testing and allowing some of us the privilege of finding some ancestors they are hoping to stop a repeat of the 1901 crash!
I guess many of us now have fewer to search for.
Kerry
Hmmm....due the fact I couldn't get the beta site to work from the link they sent me and having notified them (they supposedly fixed the problem but it still didn't work) I didn't actually manage to find anybody!!!
It would have been less frustrating if I'd never been sent the bl**dy link at all!!!
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It would have been less frustrating if I'd never been sent the bl**dy link at all!!!
LOL ;)
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Anyone have an idea if the1911 census will be loaded onto Ancestry UK soon? Their charges are much cheaper than FindMyPast!
Molly
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FindMyPast have exclusive rights to this census at present.
New thread started for discussion. Please see here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,352985.0.html