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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: donnaduff on Wednesday 20 August 08 15:42 BST (UK)
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Hello All
I have been researching the Colliar family from Fife since 1989 as this is my father's line.
If anyone has any connection to this family I would be most grateful if they got in touch.
In particular I am looking for information on:
Mary Colliar b. December 1840 in Auchterderran and also
George Tod Colliar b. 1861 in Kinnaird, Cleish
I know that a few of my ancestors relocated to Canada and New Zealand and the spelling of the surname changed to Collier.
My website is www.colliar.com
Many thanks in anticipation
Take care
Djeech
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Hello Djeech and welcome to RootsChat,
Could you tell us what information you already have about the two people named, and what it is that you are looking for?
Good luck,
JAP
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Hi djeech
Welcome from me as well - thought it may be useful to mention, the George Todd Colliar you mention was actually born in 1860. The IGI, most usefully, has civil registrations 1855-1874 included in the index and the details given for your George are
born 22 MAR 1860 Cleish, Kinross parents William Colliar and Margaret Gibson.
I just browsed your website - apologies if I have mentioned what you already know - I see on the IGI there are many Colliers from Kirkcaldy and nearby - how lovely to be able to return to the place of your roots. I only can wish :)
As mentioned by JAP, a little more detail on what you are currently checking would be most helpful
Trish
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Hi Jap and Trish
I should have checked the date for George's birth as I am the one who posted the Colliar pedigree chart on IGI some years ago, so sorry for the mistake.
I have researched as far back as Robert Colliar and Betty Dick from Auchterderran who had a son James in 1777. James married Christina Penman and had a son William born in 1813 in Auchterderran.
William married Margaret Gibson in Ballingry in 1838 and they had 9 of a family:
James b. 1838 married Elizabeth Russell
Mary b. 1840
William Gibson b. 1843 - had a child with Catherine Morris from Dalgety and then married Margaret McDonald
David b. 1845 - married Christina Glass
Robert b. 1848 - married Catherine Irvine
Christina b. 1851 - married Robert Cunningham
Adam Bede b. 1854 - married Elizabeth Carr
Margaret b. 1856 - married Peter Arnot
George Tod b. 1861
I have branches from all the above lines except Mary, Margaret and George.
Their names appear in relevant Census of Scotland notes but except for Margaret who I know married Peter Arnot (who was killed in a mining accident 2 years after their marriage), I know nothing about them.
Given that I have information on the other branches, I now have over 1500 individuals linked to the Colliars - though any info on any lines greatly received - I would like to found out more about Mary and George.
There is a rumour within the family that Mary possibly went to New Zealand so it's a starting point.
Many thanks for the welcome and feedback, it's much appreciated.
Take care
Donna
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Hi Donna,
It would be a good idea to post on the Emigrants to NZ board - with a link to this thread.
There are some amazing research terriers on the NZ board ...
Cheers,
JAP
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No worries about the date :) , I checked for George before I looked at your website - and then realised you probably had some detailed information. If one in the family emigrated, it is not too much of a leap of faith to check for other emigrants. A number of my Scottish families encouraged their parents/siblings or children to emigrate. If you have a date for when any of them were last sited on the census in Scotland, this gives an approximate emigration date for searching. I'll see if I can find anything on George, being as I found him earlier ;D
And I do agree with Jap - a post on the NZ board may find some of the family ;D
Ahhh - I just note you have already been looking for immigration 8) 8) (*)
Trish
(*)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,322640.0.html Australia
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,322637.0.html NZ
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,322638.0.html Canada
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As an aside to my original query can anyone help me with an idea of where to search next on the following:
I have a copy of William Colliar's death certificate that clearly states James Colliar as his father and Christina Penman as his mother.
William was born 12 mar in either 1812 or 1813 in Auchterderran, Fife and he
died in 1884 in Kinaird, Cleish, Scotland.
What I would love to know now is:
How can I prove a link to William and James when I cannot trace William's birth or evidence of James and Christina?
It has long been a family idea that James is the son of Robert Collyer and Betty Dick from Auchterderran and his birth was on the 11 May 1777. I have a copy of this excerpt from the parish records but I cannot trace a link from James to William and it is driving me mad.
Any help however small will be much appreciated and if there is anything I can do to help anyone else out please let me know.
I go through to GROS in Edinburgh regular and can be found at the Churchyard and Cememtries of Fife many a weekend.
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Hello Donna
Like yourself, using the more usual resources, I cannot find the link you need. Would the family have belonged to other than the Church of Scotland? As you can get to Edinburgh, perhaps some discussions with the staff at the Archives may reveal some other sources. Alternatively could there be such as an irregular marriage in the Kirk sessions of Auchterderran - if they have survived?
I have found a couple of my Fifers married in Leith - someone with more knowledge of the area may be able to explain as to why - but looking outside of Fife may also be an option.
Apologies that I cannot be more helpful, I certainly agree it is somewhat of a leap of faith when the link cannot be found.
Trish
Edit: I notice Elaine is offering MI lookups for Auchterderran here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,182463.0.html
Could there be any MIs that would help your search?
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Have you checked for possible marriages for Mary?
1867 DICK JOHN married COLLIER MARY at LESLIE FIFE
1864 SMITH THOMAS married COLLIER MARY at KIRKCALDY FIFE
1871 NOYES G married COLLIER MARY at LEITH NORTH EDINBURGH CITY
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Hello Donna
Like yourself, using the more usual resources, I cannot find the link you need. Would the family have belonged to other than the Church of Scotland? As you can get to Edinburgh, perhaps some discussions with the staff at the Archives may reveal some other sources. Alternatively could there be such as an irregular marriage in the Kirk sessions of Auchterderran - if they have survived?
I have found a couple of my Fifers married in Leith - someone with more knowledge of the area may be able to explain as to why - but looking outside of Fife may also be an option.
Apologies that I cannot be more helpful, I certainly agree it is somewhat of a leap of faith when the link cannot be found.
Trish
Edit: I notice Elaine is offering MI lookups for Auchterderran here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,182463.0.html
Could there be any MIs that would help your search?
Hi Trish
NAS will have to be my next port of call. I do think that after a certain period you have to think logically and that is why I'm pretty sure Robert and Betty are parents to James. I've also wondered why I cannot trace any siblings for William as I am sure that he would not be an oonly child but your theory of belonging to another Church (or no church at all) may will provide the answer.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Take care
Donna
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Have you checked for possible marriages for Mary?
1867 DICK JOHN married COLLIER MARY at LESLIE FIFE
1864 SMITH THOMAS married COLLIER MARY at KIRKCALDY FIFE
1871 NOYES G married COLLIER MARY at LEITH NORTH EDINBURGH CITY
Hi Santci
I can certainly check these out - can you give me more info o where you found the detials please.
Many thanks for you help
Donna
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Hi Donna
The marriages came from the index on SP. Downloading a copy of each marriage is £1.20
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MI's for Auchterderran:
96: William Baird Low, w.mary Stark 5/3/1866 age 45
no Colliers/Colliars listed. only a Christina Miller penman died as an infant.
any other names wanted just ask.
Diddy
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I had a look for a marriage on the OPR's on SP but couldn't see any. I also had a look for Williamsbirth but again nothing. The only records I could see for Baptisms 1800-1825 were these 2
19/10/1818 COLLYER JANET daughter of WILLIAM COLLYER and JANET PATERSON at Dunfermline FIFE
02/01/1820 COLLYER MARY daughter of WILLIAM COLLYER and JANET PATERSON at Dunfermline /FIFE
Maybe the Colliers (sp) were dissenters or RC's
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There is a Baptism for the James you mentioned on the OPR's
18/05/1777 COLYAR JAMES son of ROBERT COLYAR and BETTY DICK at Auchterderran FIFE
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This could be a possible sister of William. Checking it on SP would confirm or not
1884 COLLIER CHRISTIAN other name YOUNG Female aged 72 at AUCHTERDERRAN FIFE
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Hi Sancti
I think that Christina is likely to be maiden name YOUNG. She is showing in 1881 as Christina Y Collier, married to Andrew, b. Fossoway, Kinrossshire.
Monica :)
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Hi Monica
Did the census give a place of birth/age for Andrew?
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Andrew is showing as born c. 1822, slightly younger than Christina (born c. 1813). A carter by occupation and born in Abbotshall, Fifeshire.
Monica
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Andrew is another Collier who does not appear on the OPR's
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Hi djeech,
I noted your interest in the Colliar/Collier Family of Fife, and as this family appears in my own Family Tree, I made mention of it sometime ago on RootsChat. You may wish to take a look at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,293689.45.html
Best wishes to you and yours,
Tom.
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Hi Djeech, I recall that you said back in reply #3 that you had researched as far back as Robert COLLIAR and Betty DICK from Auchterderran who had a son James in 1777.
Tom, I wonder whether you connect back to this couple?
Regards,
JAP
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There is a Baptism for the James you mentioned on the OPR's
18/05/1777 COLYAR JAMES son of ROBERT COLYAR and BETTY DICK at Auchterderran FIFE
Hi Sancti & all
I believe the problem is linking this James (son of Robert and Betty) to the next level - ie finding the marriage to Christina Penman & then a birth for the William who has James and Christina Penman listed as his parents on his death certificate.
Donna says family folklore links James son of Robert and Betty, to James father of William, but finding the link in any church or other records is proving difficult.
Then - I am probably being a little slow (again) - finding siblings for William would allow for parent checking, which is what you and Monica are attempting to do :)
Tom
Rather than link to a thread containing 8 pages and hundreds of names, it is much more helpful to other researchers if YOU check your names and provide any information you have related to the poster's query.
Donna is looking for a marriage between James Colliar and Christina Penman in the early 1800s and any records of children (in particular a William) born to this couple. Like most, she is loath to accept family folklore & would like to find some documented evidence - apart from a death certificate.
Trish