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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Roxanna on Tuesday 19 August 08 14:34 BST (UK)

Title: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: Roxanna on Tuesday 19 August 08 14:34 BST (UK)
Hi,

I am trying to track Pentland/Pendleton families in Armagh.


George Pentland married Jane/Jennie Anderson bef 1823 probably in either Drumgor or Seagoe.

George's parents were Alexander and Elizabeth Pentland.  Sometimes the records spelled their name Pentledon, or Pendleton.

Their first child was Lucy Pentland b. 1823 in Drumgor,


It appears they then moved to Derrykeevan in Tartaraghan

Subsequent children were born in Derrykeevan
Elizabeth  b. 1825
Elizabeth Ann b. 1826
Jane Elizabeth b. 1828
Margaret b. 1835
Thomas 1839 married
George A., b. 1830

Any info would be appreciated.

Title: Pentland in Drumgor and Crossnamaughy
Post by: KatC on Wednesday 20 August 08 19:10 BST (UK)
From Seagoe   Parish Church records

Elizabeth   daughter of George and Jane Pendleton  of Drumgor  Sponsors  Edward Tapley, Margaret Dynes, and

Lucy  dau of George and Jane Pendleton of Drumgor  June 15, 1823

John son of John and Margaret of Ballyhannon Aug 1, 1824

Thomas son of John and ? of CrossMcKaughy  sponsors  John and Jane Pendleton and George Gardiner
May 29, 1825

Eliza daughter  of George and Jane Pendleton  of Drumgor  sponsors  Edward Tapley, Margaret Dynes and Jane Pendleton Dec 3, 1826

Rachel dau of Margaret and John Pendleton of Ballyhannon  sponsors  John Pendleton, Ellenor Rennix and Margaret Pendleton  May 18, 1828

Margaret dau to Alexander and Rachel Pentland of Crossmacaughy  May 4, 1831


Marriage at Seagoe
 June 20,1825                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             George Pendleton and Margaret Costello  of this parish  Banns published   

Pentland in Knocknamuckley's St Matthias records

David Jones married Elizabeth Pentland Dec 6, 1843 Both lived in Knocknamuckley at the time
They probably lived in Lisnamintry as a David Jones and Elizabeth had sons baptized  William John Nov 12, 1847 and Robert in March 5, 1848

Robert and Mary had Sarah Isabella? Born 8-21-1864  Crossnamacaughy  farmer

 notes with no church name
Ann Pentland with father Alexander, a Drumgor farmer married William Jones a Drumgor  farmer with father John of Drumgor and had children William July 23, 1858 and Isaac  December 10, 1862

Eliza Pentland born about 1833 married Ritchie Dilworth in 1860 (Knocknamuckley parish church,, a farmer in Crossnacahilly in the 1901 census and had children Margaret August 10, 1869 and Alexander February 15, 1863.  I think Elizabeth is recorded dead or buried at age 43  in 1876 and was buried at Knocknamuckley.

William and sister Mary Pentland. William moved to Philadelphia and Mary married James McDowell either in the US or in Ireland.  McDowells went to Knocknamuckley.

Thomas Pentland with father Alexander, a weaver married Jane Lyness, father John of Drumgor, in 1850 at Seagoe Parish Church    Drumnagoon 1901 census Thomas Pentland (Peublana is written, but Pentland is the name)  72  COI  cambric weaver  Jane wife 73 cambric weaver  Mary Ann Lynass SIL  72  cambric weaver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: Roxanna on Wednesday 20 August 08 20:39 BST (UK)
Thank you for the info.

Re.  Elizabeth daughter of George.... what are sponsors?  like godparents at a baptism?

I am concluding since you found two Elizabeths daughter of George and Jane - that the earlier Elizabeth passed on?

George and Jane eventually ended up in Derrykeevan.  Other than Milltown and Tartaraghan, would their children have gotten married at any other church?  Are there are other churches nearby? 

Thank you,
Roxanna 
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: KatC on Wednesday 20 August 08 21:26 BST (UK)
I have repeated the same Elizabeth by mistake.  Sorry there. 

I assume sponsors were to help guide the child's spiritual life, just as all church members are called upon now to guide a child at baptism time.   

This site could order the marriage records for you, but you would have to guess which date is involved.

In general, Emerald Ancestry is the best source of marriage information outside of the actual marriage record. You can first check the free listings.   You could get a subscription or  post a message asking for a look up that would include the church name, date and spouse name.   Then, to get more information, you could order the record. 

However, you posted about the Pentland marriages on Rootsweb in 2007.  Which names are you missing?  If your folk went to Manchester, CT, they were probably still tied to Portadown area families.  There are many Pentlands in the Drumcree/Portadown 1901 census.  William, born about 1830, was the oldest.   Do you want a listing of these Pentlands?

Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: KatC on Thursday 21 August 08 01:27 BST (UK)
That was John and Jane who had son THomas  and it was George
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: Roxanna on Friday 22 August 08 03:14 BST (UK)
Only recently were we able to establish that George (b. 1800) and Jane were originally from Drumgor, and then moved to Derrykeevan about 1828 and continued their family.  So I am trying to connect the Pentlands in Seagoe and Drumgor to George, son of Alexander and Elizabeth.

 The working theory is that when Alexander died (in Seagoe or Drumgor?) then Elizabeth went to Derrykeevan and lived with George and Jane.  She passed away while living there.

Of what we have found, Alexander and Elizabeth had the following children
George, b. 1800  Married Jane/Jennie Anderson
Elizabeth, b. 1801
John, b. 1804
Samuel, b. 1807 (is info suggesting in emigrated in 1840s).

I hope to locate Elizabeth and John's marriages in Seagoe or Drumgor.

Or the marriages of some of the children of George...

Lucy married John Thornton in 1845 and began a family.  I can't find them in Canada or the US, and have wondered if they remained in Ireland....?

Margaret (b. 1835).. there is no known marriage record for her yet.

George A Pentland married Anna O'Hara in 1850 in Seagoe.  At least one of his children (John W Pentland) also went to Connecticut.  Accepted a contract from Cheney brothers to work in the silk mills.  This son of George and Jane was recently established, so I'm trying to find more of George A. Pentland's family.  As far as I can tell George and Anna remained in Ireland, and maybe some of their children did as well.

These marriages of the children of George we have located.
Jane Elizabeth married William Warnock in 1850 and in the 1890s joined their family in Connecticut.

Elizabeth Ann married Joseph Black in 1852 and emigrated to Australia.

Thomas married Deborah Simonton in 1857 and emigrated to Canada.

Thanks for the help.  If you have other records of Pentlands in the 1901 Census, I'd be very interested in them.

Best,
Roxanna
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: KatC on Friday 22 August 08 05:35 BST (UK)
I have not typed up all of Donaghcloney and did not do all of records in the Magheralin area of Armagh.  These are the non Catholic records for the Lurgan/Portadown and closely outlying areas plus Bleary/Ballydougan/Ballynagarrick.  A few Lurgan records were missing.  The ages in the census are often off for the older folk.

Queen Street  Lurgan

24  Margaret Craig COI  45 Draper widow Down, boarder Martha Pentland  COI 18  teacher at National School Armagh

Taylor’s Court  Lurgan

16  William Turkington COI 67 weaver Armagh  Martha 65 Down weaver, John Henry 27  mechanic  Armagh, Joseph Pentland  grandson 15 teacher Armagh, William James Pentland  grandson 12 Armagh

William Street

63  Robert  H. Pentland Methodist 33 shirt manufacturer  Down  Maggie 34 Down  Ethel Mary 6  Stanley H 6 Down  Lizzie Winter  boarding  COI 17  machinist  Down  James C. Rutherford  boarding  Presby  24  teacher Down



Drumnagoon

40 Thomas Pentland (Peublana is written, but Pentland is the name)  72  COI  cambric weaver  Jane wife 73 cambric weaver  Mary Ann Lynass SIL  72  cambric weaver

Killycomain

4.  John Pentland  COI  36  laborer  Elizabeth  35, Mary 7  John 5, Jannie or Janna 3 dau

Annagh  Drumcree Parish

12  Meredith Pentland  COI  30  butcher  not married, Elizabeth  28 not married, Margaret 17  sister winder not married, Meredith  uncle 62  peddlar (son of Richard and Elizabeth  (Topley or Tapley))

Ballyworkian  Drumcree

12.  Jeremiah  Pentland  COI  34 farmer  Dinah  33  William 10  Agnes 8  James 6  Hugh 4  Thomas 2 (son of Thomas and Martha Gibson)

21.  John Pentland  COI 43  farmer  Susan 40  Thomas H 8  (probably son of Thomas and Martha Gibson)

60  Sarah Pentland Methodist 53 weaver not married, William John 51  brother married farmer, Ann Eliza sister 48 weaver,  Georgina sister 40 John nephew 21 farmer’s son  Alice niece 19 weaver  Lizzie 17 niece  farmer’s dau. Willie  nephew  15  Agnes 13 niece


Drumnakelly

3.  Elizabeth Pentland  62  farmer  not married, Julia Anna Wright  possibly a niece, protestants both ,  winder 40 not married

4.  James Pentland  66 farmer COI  Anne 64  Sarah  40 winder  Bella  37 winder  Georgina  23 banker in factory  John 23 weaver,  Frederick  21  Martha 18  winder  Charles 7

5.  David Pentland  55 farmer  not married COI

18  William Pentland  78 farmer  COI  Selina  70  John 24 farmer’s son

Bright Street  Portadown

8.  Margaret Pentland  60 COI  widowed  Mary 26  weaver  Margaret 22 hemstitcher

Carrickblacker Road  Portadown

32  Robert Pentland  COI 50  cotton weaver  Elizabeth  40  cotton weaver  Charlotte 11  William Robert 8  Sarah Ann 6 (Charlotte goes to S. Manchester, CT)


Carleton Street  Portadown

2.  Grace Bell  Pentland  COI 30  National School teacher  Tyrone  Teresa Calvin  boarding  22 dressmaker  Armagh  Jennette Burnette 17 sales Derry

27E  Phoebe Veill  COI  56 widow  Joseph  21 carpenter  William 17 apprentice carpenter  Annie Pentland granddau  8  boarding is Maud Whittle  COI 19  weaver  boarding is Samuel Neill  COI 17 saddler  boarding is Woolsey Montgomery  COI 17  hardware shop

Florence Court  Portadown

David Thornton  COI  30 ior 50  damask weaver  Lizzie  36 or 56 or 50 damask weaver  Robert 21 weaver  Sarah Ann 19  weaver Margaret Wright boarding 46 weaver COI (David is son of Joseph and Letita)

25  Alexander Thornton  28  COI  lapper  Annie 26 Down  Sarah A. 4 Armagh  Emma 2 Armagh  Elizabeth 5 months  (Alex is son of Joseph and Letitia)

Kilmaine St.  Lurgan

16  Esther Pentlington  70 widow Armagh born family  Caroline  Morrison 43  married  James Morrison 11 with children Samuel Morrison 9  Richard Morrison 6  COI

Church Place  Lurgan

22,  James Thornton COI 38  provisions merchant  not married Armagh

30  John Thornton  COI 45 Armagh runs a boarding home,  Mary Ann 37, Sarah 18 seamstress, John George 16 clerk,  James 14  grocer apprentice  Frances Jane 7  Joseph  10  Edith Anna 3  Robert Samuel 11 months  Patrick Ther?  Boarding RC 60  coachman  widow Down  William James Flannigan  35 boaring COI recruiting sergeant    Down  Francis Martin  boarding 22 clerk  not married  Armagh  Annie Boylan  servant  RC 18 Monaghan
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: Roxanna on Monday 25 August 08 20:12 BST (UK)
Thanks for the names and for the tip to Emerald Ancestors.  It has been useful to browse their data.  However, it is difficult to link up the families without the names of parents available on that site.   

However, I did use it to confirm records I already had been given.

It is just as interesting - the families that don't show up.  I assume they emigrated, probably to Australia, or Scotland?  Haven't found them in Canada or the US.

Title: Ruth Ramsay, William Simonton
Post by: Roxanna on Tuesday 16 September 08 11:21 BST (UK)
Hi,

Looking to verify marriage of Ruth Ramsay to William Simonton from Derrylard.....
and at least two of their children, Joshua Simonton , b. 1835, and Elizabeth Simonton, b. 1846.

I had a computer crash.  They are in my database, but I lost my source reference.

At the time of William's marriage, he was from Derrylard, Tartaraghan Parish, and Ruth was from Gallrock, Tartaraghan .  Witnesses were John Moffett and James___________.  The marriage took place in the Tartaraghan Church of Ireland.

Especially trying to verify the birth of Joshua Simonton/Symington.  It seems an untypical name for then.


Thank you,
Roxanna
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: DRUMGOR on Saturday 26 November 11 19:15 GMT (UK)
HELLO,

I AM RESEARCHING THE LYNESS FAMILY FROM DRUMGOR AND I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN YOUR LYNESS CONNECTION, THERE WHERE MANY LYNESS`S IN AROUND THE PARISH OF SEAGOE, THE SEAGOE ARCHIVES SHOWS HUNDREDS BETWEEN BIRTHS, MARRAIGES AND DEATHS.

I HAVE ATTACHED THE LYNESS FAMILY HOME IN DRUMGOR.

DOUGLAS
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: Roxanna on Thursday 01 December 11 00:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Douglas,

Thanks for posting the photo.  It is wonderful!

I found this record in my database... don't know if you have it.

" Thomas Russell married Annie Lyness in Seagoe parish on 3 March 1902. Annie was the daughter of John Lyness, a labourer from Drumgor."

I am surmising she belongs in this family, but she could be a neice of Jane Lyness, not a sister.... based on the year of the marriage.
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: kingskerswell on Thursday 01 December 11 08:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Roxanna,
                I have a note in my tree of a Thomas Lyness who married Annie Lyness in Seagoe Parish Church in 1855. Their later children were Wright 1866, Joseph 1869, Jervis 1871 and Mary 1876. Have you got any record of these?

Regards
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: worldlywanderer on Monday 18 June 12 07:10 BST (UK)
Has anyone worked out which Pentland family the granddaughter Annie belongs to?  She may have married but does not appear in 1911 as Pentland and neither do any of the Veill family but there may be a spelling issue there or was it emigration of the whole family?

  These are the non Catholic records for the Lurgan/Portadown and closely outlying areas plus Bleary/Ballydougan/Ballynagarrick. 

27E  Phoebe Veill  COI  56 widow  Joseph  21 carpenter  William 17 apprentice carpenter  Annie Pentland granddau  8  boarding is Maud Whittle  COI 19  weaver  boarding is Samuel Neill  COI 17 saddler  boarding is Woolsey Montgomery  COI 17  hardware shop
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: KatC on Monday 18 June 12 15:42 BST (UK)
I think the census might have misspelled Phoebe's name and it should have been Neill.  A Phoebe married William Neill in Co Armagh in 1871, apparently not in Portadown.  I can't find any children for the interval 1871-1880.  Possibly Samuel is a nephew.  "Theobe Neill" is living with her son, Joseph Foster Neill, on Carleton in 1911.
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: kingskerswell on Monday 18 June 12 15:54 BST (UK)
Hi,
    20 Nov 1871 William Neill married PHEBE Foster in Ahorey Presbyterian Church, Armagh District.

Regards
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: worldlywanderer on Tuesday 19 June 12 08:47 BST (UK)
Thanks, that certainly seems to sort the spelling issue. It does, however raise a new one.

Elizabeth Kitchen the widow of George Pentland remarried in 1861. Her new husband George Neill may be the link but if Pheobe Foster was Annie Neill's grandmother and Poebe was ten years younger than Elizabeth Kitchen does it not suggest an unidentified child she had with George Pentland whose child is the Annie we see in the 101 census?
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: AndersonT on Monday 12 November 12 10:17 GMT (UK)
With reference to Russell's post I have details on the Lynass and Russell families and I believe that they are the same family as you are researching. My grandfather was Thomas Henry Russell.
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: DRUMGOR on Monday 12 November 12 11:50 GMT (UK)
Hello,

Thank you for your reply on the Russell's of Drumgor , I would be interested in any Lyness connection.

The Irish writer  George Russell family came from Drumgor, the families from these small townlands of Drumgor , Moyraverty and Lageacorry were well connected.

My great grandfathers will Thomas Lyness was witnessed by a Isaac Russell .

Douglas

Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: AndersonT on Monday 12 November 12 12:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Douglas,

There are Lyness / Lynass on both sides of my family. My father was born in Scotland and his mother was a Lynass, and my Grandfather Russell was married to Annie Lyness.

They were married at Seagoe Parish Church on 3rd March 1902

Annie was the daughter of John Lyness.

Going further back there is reference to Lyniss however given that they were all from teh same areas of Drumgor I suspect that we are looking at the same family.

Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: DRUMGOR on Monday 12 November 12 12:25 GMT (UK)
Hello,

I am convinced they are all related in one way or another, I have a photograph of Drumgor Orange Lodge 1920 with some Lyness men Thomas and Archie my granfather and great uncle , do you think there would be a Russell's in it.

If you can supply me your email address I can send you a copy.

Douglas,
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: AndersonT on Monday 12 November 12 12:49 GMT (UK)
This is certainly possible. I have a photograph of Thomas Henry in his B Specials Uniform. (I also have some cuttings from the Portadown Times from when he returned from a tour of Duty in Rhodesia. (He was in either the Royal Irish Fusiliers or the Royal Irish Rifles - he was the regimental Shoer).
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: DRUMGOR on Monday 12 November 12 15:28 GMT (UK)
Hi ,

My great uncle Archie Lyness was in the Royal Irish Rifles, and I have also a B special photo with some other men in the photo.

Can I send you a private message so I can attach some photos.

Douglas

Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: AndersonT on Monday 12 November 12 16:25 GMT (UK)
I would be delighted if you would send me some photographs. I can scan the one of Thomas Henry Russell and send it to you as well. I also believe that we have a photograph of my grandmother and grandfather which I will scan to you as well.
Do you need an email address or do you simply pm through another part of this system. (I am totally new to this website and haven't quite mastered all its different settings!
Best wishes, Tom

Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: DRUMGOR on Monday 12 November 12 16:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Tom,

I have sent you my email address as a PM , hope you get this .

Look forward to seeing some images, I will send you some when your email arrives.

Douglas,
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: worldlywanderer on Saturday 24 November 12 03:02 GMT (UK)
A couple of years ago RedRover (« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 29 December 2009) responded to a post from Roxanna "...it is not clear from the Freeholder's list I talked about as to whether John and George are children or "other" in relation to Alexander, but I noted there is no female person mentioned in his lives list...

which leaves me confused. Is the "Freeholders List" not an electoral register? If so it would not indicate relationships, would it? When Redrover talks of "lives" would that be the lives associated with a lease? If so then perhaps there is a memorial of it in the Register of Deeds in Dublin, which could be checked if the year of the lease were known; is it known?

He continued "so if John & George are children, the mother is perhaps deceased?...

Do I interpret this correctly that Redrover is speculating that if there were children there must have been a mother? If so, on what basis is the suggestion made that she was perhaps deceased?

The next part I think I understand "...as for potential mothers ...

there is an Alexander Pentland marriage to "Eliza McWatters" 1826, listed in Co Down  perhaps a second wife?...

Alexander Pentland who died in 1861 age 58 is buried in a family plot in Kircubbin alongside Eliza Pentland and an Eliza McWatter married an Alexander Pentland in 1826. If i may add my own speculation here - could he be the son of Samuel Pentland of Innishargy who is also buried in that plot? and again by extrapolation the grandson of John Pentland of Ballygarvan?

Is it also perhaps more than a coincidence that the will of Alexander Pentland who died about 1861 had John Finlay of Innishaigne (Innishargy?) and Samuel Harris of Ballygarvin as executors?

The post goes on ...there is (in the Belfast Registry 1810 Volume 4) a reference of a marriage in Banbridge of a Mr Alexander Pentland to a Miss Murney, perhaps the first wife?...

A first wife to who? Could transcription have also reformed her name from Murray?

and

...but although the townlands are close by, I am going to work the the Ballyworkan thing...

may I enquire whether that work produced any positive results?

Redrover than continued
...I don't know why Alexander did not continue in Ballyworkan,...

Perhaps because he was not the first son and an older brother inherited?

...but I noted in the Freeholder's list Proni D/1928/F/99 that his vote for a candidate was rejected because he did not produce a "certificate" for his land - it appears that he was also voting for the "other" candidate (the one who did not win, at least that year)...

I thought I had checked all of the Freeholders on the PRONI website but don't see anything in my notes which matches this. Is it safe to say the rejected vote came as a relt of failure to register as an elector which required proof of qualification as an elector and Redrover's statement suggests he owned a lease which provided this qualification?

I also identify with Redrover's final sentiments "Ah got to love a mystery. Let me know if you find anything else or perhaps we can fly to Drumcree or Seagoe or Mullavilly for that matter and scour the records together for Pentland!" - except that the place to look is likely Dublin rather than the Southern Ulster!
Title: Re: Pentland in Drumgor, Seagoe, Derrykeevan
Post by: worldlywanderer on Saturday 24 November 12 03:11 GMT (UK)
Interesting new post over on the Pentland board http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.pentland/193/mb.ashx about Donaghadee Graveyard