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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Roxanna on Tuesday 19 August 08 14:34 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to track Pentland/Pendleton families in Armagh.
George Pentland married Jane/Jennie Anderson bef 1823 probably in either Drumgor or Seagoe.
George's parents were Alexander and Elizabeth Pentland. Sometimes the records spelled their name Pentledon, or Pendleton.
Their first child was Lucy Pentland b. 1823 in Drumgor,
It appears they then moved to Derrykeevan in Tartaraghan
Subsequent children were born in Derrykeevan
Elizabeth b. 1825
Elizabeth Ann b. 1826
Jane Elizabeth b. 1828
Margaret b. 1835
Thomas 1839 married
George A., b. 1830
Any info would be appreciated.
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From Seagoe Parish Church records
Elizabeth daughter of George and Jane Pendleton of Drumgor Sponsors Edward Tapley, Margaret Dynes, and
Lucy dau of George and Jane Pendleton of Drumgor June 15, 1823
John son of John and Margaret of Ballyhannon Aug 1, 1824
Thomas son of John and ? of CrossMcKaughy sponsors John and Jane Pendleton and George Gardiner
May 29, 1825
Eliza daughter of George and Jane Pendleton of Drumgor sponsors Edward Tapley, Margaret Dynes and Jane Pendleton Dec 3, 1826
Rachel dau of Margaret and John Pendleton of Ballyhannon sponsors John Pendleton, Ellenor Rennix and Margaret Pendleton May 18, 1828
Margaret dau to Alexander and Rachel Pentland of Crossmacaughy May 4, 1831
Marriage at Seagoe
June 20,1825 George Pendleton and Margaret Costello of this parish Banns published
Pentland in Knocknamuckley's St Matthias records
David Jones married Elizabeth Pentland Dec 6, 1843 Both lived in Knocknamuckley at the time
They probably lived in Lisnamintry as a David Jones and Elizabeth had sons baptized William John Nov 12, 1847 and Robert in March 5, 1848
Robert and Mary had Sarah Isabella? Born 8-21-1864 Crossnamacaughy farmer
notes with no church name
Ann Pentland with father Alexander, a Drumgor farmer married William Jones a Drumgor farmer with father John of Drumgor and had children William July 23, 1858 and Isaac December 10, 1862
Eliza Pentland born about 1833 married Ritchie Dilworth in 1860 (Knocknamuckley parish church,, a farmer in Crossnacahilly in the 1901 census and had children Margaret August 10, 1869 and Alexander February 15, 1863. I think Elizabeth is recorded dead or buried at age 43 in 1876 and was buried at Knocknamuckley.
William and sister Mary Pentland. William moved to Philadelphia and Mary married James McDowell either in the US or in Ireland. McDowells went to Knocknamuckley.
Thomas Pentland with father Alexander, a weaver married Jane Lyness, father John of Drumgor, in 1850 at Seagoe Parish Church Drumnagoon 1901 census Thomas Pentland (Peublana is written, but Pentland is the name) 72 COI cambric weaver Jane wife 73 cambric weaver Mary Ann Lynass SIL 72 cambric weaver
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Thank you for the info.
Re. Elizabeth daughter of George.... what are sponsors? like godparents at a baptism?
I am concluding since you found two Elizabeths daughter of George and Jane - that the earlier Elizabeth passed on?
George and Jane eventually ended up in Derrykeevan. Other than Milltown and Tartaraghan, would their children have gotten married at any other church? Are there are other churches nearby?
Thank you,
Roxanna
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I have repeated the same Elizabeth by mistake. Sorry there.
I assume sponsors were to help guide the child's spiritual life, just as all church members are called upon now to guide a child at baptism time.
This site could order the marriage records for you, but you would have to guess which date is involved.
In general, Emerald Ancestry is the best source of marriage information outside of the actual marriage record. You can first check the free listings. You could get a subscription or post a message asking for a look up that would include the church name, date and spouse name. Then, to get more information, you could order the record.
However, you posted about the Pentland marriages on Rootsweb in 2007. Which names are you missing? If your folk went to Manchester, CT, they were probably still tied to Portadown area families. There are many Pentlands in the Drumcree/Portadown 1901 census. William, born about 1830, was the oldest. Do you want a listing of these Pentlands?
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That was John and Jane who had son THomas and it was George
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Only recently were we able to establish that George (b. 1800) and Jane were originally from Drumgor, and then moved to Derrykeevan about 1828 and continued their family. So I am trying to connect the Pentlands in Seagoe and Drumgor to George, son of Alexander and Elizabeth.
The working theory is that when Alexander died (in Seagoe or Drumgor?) then Elizabeth went to Derrykeevan and lived with George and Jane. She passed away while living there.
Of what we have found, Alexander and Elizabeth had the following children
George, b. 1800 Married Jane/Jennie Anderson
Elizabeth, b. 1801
John, b. 1804
Samuel, b. 1807 (is info suggesting in emigrated in 1840s).
I hope to locate Elizabeth and John's marriages in Seagoe or Drumgor.
Or the marriages of some of the children of George...
Lucy married John Thornton in 1845 and began a family. I can't find them in Canada or the US, and have wondered if they remained in Ireland....?
Margaret (b. 1835).. there is no known marriage record for her yet.
George A Pentland married Anna O'Hara in 1850 in Seagoe. At least one of his children (John W Pentland) also went to Connecticut. Accepted a contract from Cheney brothers to work in the silk mills. This son of George and Jane was recently established, so I'm trying to find more of George A. Pentland's family. As far as I can tell George and Anna remained in Ireland, and maybe some of their children did as well.
These marriages of the children of George we have located.
Jane Elizabeth married William Warnock in 1850 and in the 1890s joined their family in Connecticut.
Elizabeth Ann married Joseph Black in 1852 and emigrated to Australia.
Thomas married Deborah Simonton in 1857 and emigrated to Canada.
Thanks for the help. If you have other records of Pentlands in the 1901 Census, I'd be very interested in them.
Best,
Roxanna
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I have not typed up all of Donaghcloney and did not do all of records in the Magheralin area of Armagh. These are the non Catholic records for the Lurgan/Portadown and closely outlying areas plus Bleary/Ballydougan/Ballynagarrick. A few Lurgan records were missing. The ages in the census are often off for the older folk.
Queen Street Lurgan
24 Margaret Craig COI 45 Draper widow Down, boarder Martha Pentland COI 18 teacher at National School Armagh
Taylor’s Court Lurgan
16 William Turkington COI 67 weaver Armagh Martha 65 Down weaver, John Henry 27 mechanic Armagh, Joseph Pentland grandson 15 teacher Armagh, William James Pentland grandson 12 Armagh
William Street
63 Robert H. Pentland Methodist 33 shirt manufacturer Down Maggie 34 Down Ethel Mary 6 Stanley H 6 Down Lizzie Winter boarding COI 17 machinist Down James C. Rutherford boarding Presby 24 teacher Down
Drumnagoon
40 Thomas Pentland (Peublana is written, but Pentland is the name) 72 COI cambric weaver Jane wife 73 cambric weaver Mary Ann Lynass SIL 72 cambric weaver
Killycomain
4. John Pentland COI 36 laborer Elizabeth 35, Mary 7 John 5, Jannie or Janna 3 dau
Annagh Drumcree Parish
12 Meredith Pentland COI 30 butcher not married, Elizabeth 28 not married, Margaret 17 sister winder not married, Meredith uncle 62 peddlar (son of Richard and Elizabeth (Topley or Tapley))
Ballyworkian Drumcree
12. Jeremiah Pentland COI 34 farmer Dinah 33 William 10 Agnes 8 James 6 Hugh 4 Thomas 2 (son of Thomas and Martha Gibson)
21. John Pentland COI 43 farmer Susan 40 Thomas H 8 (probably son of Thomas and Martha Gibson)
60 Sarah Pentland Methodist 53 weaver not married, William John 51 brother married farmer, Ann Eliza sister 48 weaver, Georgina sister 40 John nephew 21 farmer’s son Alice niece 19 weaver Lizzie 17 niece farmer’s dau. Willie nephew 15 Agnes 13 niece
Drumnakelly
3. Elizabeth Pentland 62 farmer not married, Julia Anna Wright possibly a niece, protestants both , winder 40 not married
4. James Pentland 66 farmer COI Anne 64 Sarah 40 winder Bella 37 winder Georgina 23 banker in factory John 23 weaver, Frederick 21 Martha 18 winder Charles 7
5. David Pentland 55 farmer not married COI
18 William Pentland 78 farmer COI Selina 70 John 24 farmer’s son
Bright Street Portadown
8. Margaret Pentland 60 COI widowed Mary 26 weaver Margaret 22 hemstitcher
Carrickblacker Road Portadown
32 Robert Pentland COI 50 cotton weaver Elizabeth 40 cotton weaver Charlotte 11 William Robert 8 Sarah Ann 6 (Charlotte goes to S. Manchester, CT)
Carleton Street Portadown
2. Grace Bell Pentland COI 30 National School teacher Tyrone Teresa Calvin boarding 22 dressmaker Armagh Jennette Burnette 17 sales Derry
27E Phoebe Veill COI 56 widow Joseph 21 carpenter William 17 apprentice carpenter Annie Pentland granddau 8 boarding is Maud Whittle COI 19 weaver boarding is Samuel Neill COI 17 saddler boarding is Woolsey Montgomery COI 17 hardware shop
Florence Court Portadown
David Thornton COI 30 ior 50 damask weaver Lizzie 36 or 56 or 50 damask weaver Robert 21 weaver Sarah Ann 19 weaver Margaret Wright boarding 46 weaver COI (David is son of Joseph and Letita)
25 Alexander Thornton 28 COI lapper Annie 26 Down Sarah A. 4 Armagh Emma 2 Armagh Elizabeth 5 months (Alex is son of Joseph and Letitia)
Kilmaine St. Lurgan
16 Esther Pentlington 70 widow Armagh born family Caroline Morrison 43 married James Morrison 11 with children Samuel Morrison 9 Richard Morrison 6 COI
Church Place Lurgan
22, James Thornton COI 38 provisions merchant not married Armagh
30 John Thornton COI 45 Armagh runs a boarding home, Mary Ann 37, Sarah 18 seamstress, John George 16 clerk, James 14 grocer apprentice Frances Jane 7 Joseph 10 Edith Anna 3 Robert Samuel 11 months Patrick Ther? Boarding RC 60 coachman widow Down William James Flannigan 35 boaring COI recruiting sergeant Down Francis Martin boarding 22 clerk not married Armagh Annie Boylan servant RC 18 Monaghan
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Thanks for the names and for the tip to Emerald Ancestors. It has been useful to browse their data. However, it is difficult to link up the families without the names of parents available on that site.
However, I did use it to confirm records I already had been given.
It is just as interesting - the families that don't show up. I assume they emigrated, probably to Australia, or Scotland? Haven't found them in Canada or the US.
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Hi,
Looking to verify marriage of Ruth Ramsay to William Simonton from Derrylard.....
and at least two of their children, Joshua Simonton , b. 1835, and Elizabeth Simonton, b. 1846.
I had a computer crash. They are in my database, but I lost my source reference.
At the time of William's marriage, he was from Derrylard, Tartaraghan Parish, and Ruth was from Gallrock, Tartaraghan . Witnesses were John Moffett and James___________. The marriage took place in the Tartaraghan Church of Ireland.
Especially trying to verify the birth of Joshua Simonton/Symington. It seems an untypical name for then.
Thank you,
Roxanna
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HELLO,
I AM RESEARCHING THE LYNESS FAMILY FROM DRUMGOR AND I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN YOUR LYNESS CONNECTION, THERE WHERE MANY LYNESS`S IN AROUND THE PARISH OF SEAGOE, THE SEAGOE ARCHIVES SHOWS HUNDREDS BETWEEN BIRTHS, MARRAIGES AND DEATHS.
I HAVE ATTACHED THE LYNESS FAMILY HOME IN DRUMGOR.
DOUGLAS
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Hi Douglas,
Thanks for posting the photo. It is wonderful!
I found this record in my database... don't know if you have it.
" Thomas Russell married Annie Lyness in Seagoe parish on 3 March 1902. Annie was the daughter of John Lyness, a labourer from Drumgor."
I am surmising she belongs in this family, but she could be a neice of Jane Lyness, not a sister.... based on the year of the marriage.
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Hi Roxanna,
I have a note in my tree of a Thomas Lyness who married Annie Lyness in Seagoe Parish Church in 1855. Their later children were Wright 1866, Joseph 1869, Jervis 1871 and Mary 1876. Have you got any record of these?
Regards
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Has anyone worked out which Pentland family the granddaughter Annie belongs to? She may have married but does not appear in 1911 as Pentland and neither do any of the Veill family but there may be a spelling issue there or was it emigration of the whole family?
These are the non Catholic records for the Lurgan/Portadown and closely outlying areas plus Bleary/Ballydougan/Ballynagarrick.
27E Phoebe Veill COI 56 widow Joseph 21 carpenter William 17 apprentice carpenter Annie Pentland granddau 8 boarding is Maud Whittle COI 19 weaver boarding is Samuel Neill COI 17 saddler boarding is Woolsey Montgomery COI 17 hardware shop
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I think the census might have misspelled Phoebe's name and it should have been Neill. A Phoebe married William Neill in Co Armagh in 1871, apparently not in Portadown. I can't find any children for the interval 1871-1880. Possibly Samuel is a nephew. "Theobe Neill" is living with her son, Joseph Foster Neill, on Carleton in 1911.
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Hi,
20 Nov 1871 William Neill married PHEBE Foster in Ahorey Presbyterian Church, Armagh District.
Regards
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Thanks, that certainly seems to sort the spelling issue. It does, however raise a new one.
Elizabeth Kitchen the widow of George Pentland remarried in 1861. Her new husband George Neill may be the link but if Pheobe Foster was Annie Neill's grandmother and Poebe was ten years younger than Elizabeth Kitchen does it not suggest an unidentified child she had with George Pentland whose child is the Annie we see in the 101 census?
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With reference to Russell's post I have details on the Lynass and Russell families and I believe that they are the same family as you are researching. My grandfather was Thomas Henry Russell.
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Hello,
Thank you for your reply on the Russell's of Drumgor , I would be interested in any Lyness connection.
The Irish writer George Russell family came from Drumgor, the families from these small townlands of Drumgor , Moyraverty and Lageacorry were well connected.
My great grandfathers will Thomas Lyness was witnessed by a Isaac Russell .
Douglas
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Hi Douglas,
There are Lyness / Lynass on both sides of my family. My father was born in Scotland and his mother was a Lynass, and my Grandfather Russell was married to Annie Lyness.
They were married at Seagoe Parish Church on 3rd March 1902
Annie was the daughter of John Lyness.
Going further back there is reference to Lyniss however given that they were all from teh same areas of Drumgor I suspect that we are looking at the same family.
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Hello,
I am convinced they are all related in one way or another, I have a photograph of Drumgor Orange Lodge 1920 with some Lyness men Thomas and Archie my granfather and great uncle , do you think there would be a Russell's in it.
If you can supply me your email address I can send you a copy.
Douglas,
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This is certainly possible. I have a photograph of Thomas Henry in his B Specials Uniform. (I also have some cuttings from the Portadown Times from when he returned from a tour of Duty in Rhodesia. (He was in either the Royal Irish Fusiliers or the Royal Irish Rifles - he was the regimental Shoer).
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Hi ,
My great uncle Archie Lyness was in the Royal Irish Rifles, and I have also a B special photo with some other men in the photo.
Can I send you a private message so I can attach some photos.
Douglas
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I would be delighted if you would send me some photographs. I can scan the one of Thomas Henry Russell and send it to you as well. I also believe that we have a photograph of my grandmother and grandfather which I will scan to you as well.
Do you need an email address or do you simply pm through another part of this system. (I am totally new to this website and haven't quite mastered all its different settings!
Best wishes, Tom
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Hi Tom,
I have sent you my email address as a PM , hope you get this .
Look forward to seeing some images, I will send you some when your email arrives.
Douglas,
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A couple of years ago RedRover (« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 29 December 2009) responded to a post from Roxanna "...it is not clear from the Freeholder's list I talked about as to whether John and George are children or "other" in relation to Alexander, but I noted there is no female person mentioned in his lives list...
which leaves me confused. Is the "Freeholders List" not an electoral register? If so it would not indicate relationships, would it? When Redrover talks of "lives" would that be the lives associated with a lease? If so then perhaps there is a memorial of it in the Register of Deeds in Dublin, which could be checked if the year of the lease were known; is it known?
He continued "so if John & George are children, the mother is perhaps deceased?...
Do I interpret this correctly that Redrover is speculating that if there were children there must have been a mother? If so, on what basis is the suggestion made that she was perhaps deceased?
The next part I think I understand "...as for potential mothers ...
there is an Alexander Pentland marriage to "Eliza McWatters" 1826, listed in Co Down perhaps a second wife?...
Alexander Pentland who died in 1861 age 58 is buried in a family plot in Kircubbin alongside Eliza Pentland and an Eliza McWatter married an Alexander Pentland in 1826. If i may add my own speculation here - could he be the son of Samuel Pentland of Innishargy who is also buried in that plot? and again by extrapolation the grandson of John Pentland of Ballygarvan?
Is it also perhaps more than a coincidence that the will of Alexander Pentland who died about 1861 had John Finlay of Innishaigne (Innishargy?) and Samuel Harris of Ballygarvin as executors?
The post goes on ...there is (in the Belfast Registry 1810 Volume 4) a reference of a marriage in Banbridge of a Mr Alexander Pentland to a Miss Murney, perhaps the first wife?...
A first wife to who? Could transcription have also reformed her name from Murray?
and
...but although the townlands are close by, I am going to work the the Ballyworkan thing...
may I enquire whether that work produced any positive results?
Redrover than continued
...I don't know why Alexander did not continue in Ballyworkan,...
Perhaps because he was not the first son and an older brother inherited?
...but I noted in the Freeholder's list Proni D/1928/F/99 that his vote for a candidate was rejected because he did not produce a "certificate" for his land - it appears that he was also voting for the "other" candidate (the one who did not win, at least that year)...
I thought I had checked all of the Freeholders on the PRONI website but don't see anything in my notes which matches this. Is it safe to say the rejected vote came as a relt of failure to register as an elector which required proof of qualification as an elector and Redrover's statement suggests he owned a lease which provided this qualification?
I also identify with Redrover's final sentiments "Ah got to love a mystery. Let me know if you find anything else or perhaps we can fly to Drumcree or Seagoe or Mullavilly for that matter and scour the records together for Pentland!" - except that the place to look is likely Dublin rather than the Southern Ulster!
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Interesting new post over on the Pentland board http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.pentland/193/mb.ashx about Donaghadee Graveyard