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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: coombs on Saturday 16 August 08 21:02 BST (UK)
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Hi
At the LMA a few weeks ago I found the very useful register of "Admissions and Discharges to Workhouse in Holborn Union District" 1860-1900. This proved to be a goldmine as this contains all the workhouse admissions and discharges of every institution in the Holborn Union District, arranged by surname, then in the first column, the name of the particular workhouse they went to eg, Grays Inn Workhouse, Clerkenwell Workhouse, City Road Workhouse, Highgate Infirmary or Mitcham Workhouse and I found the Infirmary admission of my ancestor Thomas Roberts in the composite register where the original registers for Holborn Infirmary have not survived. I was ecstatic at that but it has also thrown up a new query. See below:-
In November 1878, Thos Roberts and his family moved to 69 Leather Lane in Holborn, after losing money on a beer house in Walworth in South London. They were so destitute that they applied for poor relief on the 2nd December that year. All the family members appear in the relief application. The register says "Whether Husband, Wife Or Child Sent to a Workhouse, Asylum or elsewhere, state particulars of each chargebility" it says "Yes", meaning they were sent to a workhouse. They became chargeable to Clerkenwell, probably meaning Clerkenwell would pay for their relief.
But there is no record of any of my ancestors going into any of the workhouses in the Holborn Union District at that time according to that above mentioned composite register of Holborn Union admissions and discharges.
Two years later by 1881 census the Roberts were living just round the corner from 69 Leather Lane at No 9 Portpool Lane, Holborn and Thomas was a night watchman and two of his daughters were now tailoresses so they were back on their feet again so they stayed in the Holborn area from 1878 onwards until Thomas and his wife died in 1886 and 1889.
Was every workhouse order actually succeeded or would they have withdrawn their relief application at the last minute or something? Or just recieved Out Relief instead? It is strange why I cannot find a workhouse admission for them.
I have attached the image to make opinions easier.
Ben
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I have just drawn up my own conclusion.
I think they rejected the offer or request for the workhouse, as workhouses were a last resort. I am in the opinion that they found their own ways of coping and never entered any workhouse and just stayed at home in Holborn.
By 1881 two of the daughters were tailoresses and the head was a night watchman so they must have refused the workhouse order if out door relief was rejected and they found another way of coping.
Ben
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Hi Ben,
I hope you don't mind this interjection... but I wouldn't take it literally that two very poor women were indeed tailoresses as the census says.
Women 'of ill repute' often described themselves as seamstresses or tailoresses. Been a few threads about this previously, click on the links in the reference library:
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/reflib-lexicon.php?letter=S&lang=&input_form=
Probably no way of knowing whether they were telling the truth or not...
Cat
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Thomas Roberts was a watchman in 1881. His eldest daughters Kate and Elizabeth were aged 17 and 13 at the time. Both were "Tailoresses" so do you think they may have been fibbing?
Ben
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oops, sorry I didn't see anything about ages.
No idea if they were fibbing, but if a 13 year old is concerned I really really hope they were indeed tailoresses.
Cat
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Hi Ben,
Are the LMA Workhouse Records that you refer to available online?
Romilly.
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Hi Romilly and catwomyn
No the records arent online yet but I did hear that the LMA are putting them online.
Catwomyn. I think they were probably tailoresses and 2 and a half years had elapsed since their unsuccesful poor relief application and they probably trained up for a year. I dont think a 68 year old man in the census would put his 17 and 14 year old daughters down as tailoresses if they werent. If they were 50 odd them maybe yes, but Kates daughter born in 1904 was a tailoress according to her marriage cert.
Thomas's mum Ann was a dressmaker in 1851 aged 73 and she had family with her. Clothesmaking was handed down the generations.
Ben
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Hello,
I've only just registered with the website so I hope this message will get through to you coombs, as I can't seem to send you a message.
I wonder if you still have the reference number for the resource you mention here:
At the LMA a few weeks ago I found the very useful register of "Admissions and Discharges to Workhouse in Holborn Union District" 1860-1900. This proved to be a goldmine as this contains all the workhouse admissions and discharges of every institution in the Holborn Union District, arranged by surname, then in the first column, the name of the particular workhouse they went to eg, Grays Inn Workhouse....
as I've just spent the whole day at the LMA and didn't find this - I am looking for Grays Inn Road Workhouse records from 1876 and before. Unfortunately all the records I found are after this date, but your post has given me hope! I have tried searching the LMA records from home but can't find this in there.
Any tips?
Cheers,
Lox
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how can I get information on grays inn work house 1827 please
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Hi achooo
you've tacked your request onto a thread started in 2008.
The surviving records are at the London Metropolitan Archives.
What are you looking for?
Dawn
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sorry about that I know ann baily was there in dec1847.and we never heard of her after wondered if she died there