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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: micksharp on Thursday 14 August 08 22:13 BST (UK)

Title: My mysterious great grandad - Hugh MILLAR
Post by: micksharp on Thursday 14 August 08 22:13 BST (UK)
Hi everybody, some advice/help needed please.

My great grandfather Hugh Millar, was supposedly born in Scotland in around 1881 (I've found the record of his death, 1943, supposedly aged 62) in the Stirling area. By 1902/3 he was living in Shiremoor, Northumberland (I can't find any trace of him there in the 1901 Census). He was married in 1903 and I know he lived in Duchess Street, Shiremoor.

His last surviving daughter knows very little about his past as it appears he kept it under cover! The common consensus is that he was something like a 'Barnardo's boy', but what type of home it was and where it was is not known.

I have found record of a Hugh Millar in the Shaftesbury Home in London in 1891 but its states place of birth is Hammersmith, London. As it was a boys' home, can this sort of birth information be trusted - was 'London' just entered for convenience? In the 1881 Census there is a Hugh Millar living in Upminster, Essex, with (I assume) his mother Henrietta, sister Clara and uncle(?) Fredrick Hannent. Place of birth for all of these Millars is given as Scotland. In the 1891 Census, it appears that Henrietta and Clara (Claire?) are in nearby West Ham (ages match the 1881 Census), living together, but there is no Hugh and their place of birth is given as West Indies! Could they have fallen on hard times and sent Hugh off to this home?

Does anyone know how (or if) I can fill in the blanks? I've ordered Hugh's marriage cert so might glean some more from that but I've got a feeling that his parents' names might probably be missing. Does anyone know of any homes in Scotland at the end of the 19th century?

Many thanks

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 14 August 08 23:55 BST (UK)
Starting with the most recent even and working back what information is on his death certificate?
Think English marriage certificates only list father's name.
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: daval57 on Friday 15 August 08 00:10 BST (UK)
I can only (try to) assist with your Scottish clue.
In the years 1875 to 1885 there were 5 Hugh Millers / Millars born in Stirlingshire.
Source : ScotlandsPeople

1878 MILLAR HUGH   FALKIRK LANDWARD    479/02 0119   
1882 MILLAR HUGH   ST NINIANS 488/01 0014
1883 MILLER HUGH   CAMPSIE   475/00 0007
1880 MILLER HUGH LYON FALKIRK BURGH 479/01 0015
1885 MILLER HUGH TAYLOR FALKIRK LANDWARD 479/02 0050

To view these actual records would cost £1 each from SP.
Minimum purchase on SP is £6.00

If you can ascertain which the correct one, the record would give you parents names, exact date of birth, parents address and possibly date of marriage of parents.

Of course you'd need parents names to verify the correct one so hopefully the marriage cert will tell you 1 or both of the parents.

Do any of the children have middle names?  Could be a middle name is the surname of his mother.

If he was born outside Stirlingshire the cost of searching all records would mount up - there are another 14 Hugh Millars / Millers if you include the whole of Scotland for those same years (only 2 for 1881 itself though).

Dave
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: Deb D on Friday 15 August 08 00:32 BST (UK)
Might this be a good point to insert a link to that "How to Work Around SP" thread which was posted a little while ago?  I'm sorry, I've had a quick look, but can't find it  :-[
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: daval57 on Friday 15 August 08 00:36 BST (UK)
Your wish is my command

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/041v/   

PS - I got all the info below for 1 credit (20p).

Dave
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: Deb D on Friday 15 August 08 00:36 BST (UK)
Ohhhh thank you!  Well done!
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: micksharp on Friday 15 August 08 12:52 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for your help and tips. Never used SP but will obviously have to in the future!

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: daval57 on Friday 15 August 08 17:37 BST (UK)
You're welcome.  Let us know if you get a result.
Dave
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad: a bit success I think!
Post by: micksharp on Friday 15 August 08 19:49 BST (UK)
Yes, SP is a nightmare! Hard to navigate and expensive.

Dave, thanks for your efforts. I paid the £6 and took a chance. See the picture. This is almost definitely him - my dad reckons that he was called his 'granda's birthday present', and the date of birth is 26 January (same as my dad's!). Hugh's mother is called Ellen, which was my nana's name. As you can see, Hugh was illegitimate so I reckon I'll never find out who his dad was, unless he revealed it later.

Now, to find out where he went next!

Thanks .

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: daval57 on Friday 15 August 08 20:10 BST (UK)
SP can be expensive but also very useful. 
I reckon that to be able to get hold of an entry for £1 isn't that dear - it's the searching that costs.
However, if used in conjunction with the free sites available such as IGI etc, and used properly, it can be quite effective.

Glad you seem to have found the correct one. 
Pity there is little info on it.  Normally there is a lot more.  She obviously didn't want to give her address away when registering the child. 
 
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: Elaine48 on Thursday 16 July 15 02:39 BST (UK)
I'd like to compare notes with you Re: Hugh Millar if you haven't found any more info than your previous posts. I have a Hugh Millar born Scotland 1861 and living at 11 Duchess St, Whitely Northumberland in 1901. Seems a coincidence they should both be living at the same address at the same time. Please PM me.

Thanks
Elaine
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: micksharp on Thursday 16 July 15 09:12 BST (UK)
Hi Elaine

There is a Duchess Street in Whitley Bay. It's still there. The Duchess Street where my great granda Hugh Millar lived was in Shiremoor, then a small pit village about 4 miles inland from Whitley Bay. He was born in St Ninian's, Stirling, in 1882.

Do you want a photo of 11 Duchess Street, Whitley Bay as it is today? I live in Whitley and could pop around.

Thanks

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: silvery on Thursday 16 July 15 13:12 BST (UK)
Looks like there may have been two one Hugh Millar and one Hugh Miller  both b Scotland. 

1901  Duchers Street, Whitley, Tynemouth   RG13/4805/89/20

Hugh Miller 1863 b Scotland, joiner and builder
Selina   b 1867  Tynemouth
Elizabeth J  b 1887   Whitley
Sydney C  b 1898  Cullercoats

He is about in 1891 also, and living with Hugh and Selina is sister in law Emily Colwell 1870

The other one Hugh Millar b 1882/83 Bannockburn, is a coal hewer  with wife Hannah b 1885 Hexam,  John David b 1904 Chirton N Shields, Ellen b 1907  Shiremoore, and James Middleton 1910 Shiremoore all at Hotspur Place, Shiremoore.
Married Hannah Middleton 1903  Tynemouth.
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: micksharp on Thursday 16 July 15 13:22 BST (UK)
That's right, Elaine. Ellen was my gran.

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: silvery on Thursday 16 July 15 13:26 BST (UK)
In 1901 there is a Hugh Millar, 18 b 1883 underground collier born Bannockburn lodging in Ballingrey, Fife, with Thomas Liddle 24 and wife Jane 21.   
Only one coming up with Bannockburn as birthplace. 
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: micksharp on Thursday 16 July 15 13:45 BST (UK)
Yes, that's my great granddad.

His father David Millar - a weaver, if I remember correctly -  and mother Helen/Ellen Miller moved to Glasgow and then Edinburgh at the end of the nineteenth century. Ellen died quite young and David remarried a Janet Duthie. Hugh had a brother Alexander. By way of Fife, Hugh ended up in Shiremoor, Northumberland, to work in the pits there. Hotspur Place was part of the 'original' Shiremoor - the family moved to nearby Duchess Street, which was built soon after. The Middletons lived on Duke Street, I think, which backed onto Duchess.

Hugh never discussed his past and his children (my nana included) thought he had been brought up in a children's orphanage. As it happened, he was born illegitimate. But I think David was his father - he and Ellen married in Glasgow soon after. My dad is called Hugh Millar Sharp, as he was born on 26 January, the birthdate of his granda Hugh!

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: silvery on Thursday 16 July 15 13:53 BST (UK)
So you don't think he's related to the other Hugh Miller that Elaine has found?

If Ellen married very soon after the birth of Hugh, I would think it's very likely that David was his father.   
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: micksharp on Thursday 16 July 15 14:12 BST (UK)
No, I don't think Elaine's Hugh is related to mine.
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: Elaine48 on Thursday 16 July 15 19:28 BST (UK)
Thanks for replying Mick. I'm so disappointed. Thought maybe I'd finally found a connection to that Hugh Millar & Selina Colwell. My family were also miners from Dalkeith, but Hugh's father James (& his wife Elizabeth King) appear to have gone to Northumberland where they worked in the building trade. Been searching for verification that I have the right Millars for years. Oh well back to the drawing board!

Thanks again,
Elaine
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: micksharp on Thursday 16 July 15 21:08 BST (UK)
Elaine

If there's any way I can help you, just let me know. I live in Whitley Bay (not too far from Duchess Street) and might be able to look for information for you locally.

Thanks

Mick
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: ecksdochter on Friday 17 July 15 00:14 BST (UK)
Hello Mick,
     Found this on A*try. Could this be your Hugh in 1891?
          David  Miller  29 Dock Labourer b Bannockburn, Stirling.
          Helen      "    27 Wife                  b Towerwood,        "
          Hugh       "     9 Son                   b St Ninians,          "
          John        "     6   "                     b Glasgow, Lanark.
          David      "      4   "                     b Leith, Midlothian.
          Elizabeth "      2 Dau.                 b     "           "
     Living at 3 Anderson Place, Leith, Midlothian, Scotland.
               Regards,     Dod.
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: Elaine48 on Friday 17 July 15 00:19 BST (UK)
Thanks Mick, that's very kind of you to offer. What I would really love to know is if the James Millar who died 1889 Tynemouth & his wife Elizabeth King died 1884 Tynemouth are the couple I've been looking for. He should have been the son of James Millar & Helen Thomson both born Newton, Edinburgh. Elizabeth would have been the daughter of Alexander King & Catherine Hood. I know English records aren't as detailed as Scottish ones which is why I'm reluctant to buy the certificates.
But thanks again anyway,
Elaine
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad - Hugh MILLAR
Post by: AmandaWinters on Friday 13 October 17 21:33 BST (UK)
I have some information regarding a Hugh Millar who would have been building houses in Tyne and Wear around 1900.
Title: Re: My mysterious great grandad
Post by: AmandaWinters on Saturday 14 October 17 08:39 BST (UK)
Thanks for replying Mick. I'm so disappointed. Thought maybe I'd finally found a connection to that Hugh Millar & Selina Colwell. My family were also miners from Dalkeith, but Hugh's father James (& his wife Elizabeth King) appear to have gone to Northumberland where they worked in the building trade. Been searching for verification that I have the right Millars for years. Oh well back to the drawing board!

Thanks again,
Elaine

If your Hugh Millar is the one who built houses in Northumberland, then I can help you.
He appears to have lived in Newcastle, but built terraced houses in North Tyneside (Northumberland at the time) to sell. He wasn’t only a builder, but an investor.
I have his address from when he lived in Newcastle, it’s written on the deeds to my house from when he had it built in 1899 and sold it to its first owner in 1904.