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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: SusieMc on Thursday 14 August 08 17:52 BST (UK)

Title: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Thursday 14 August 08 17:52 BST (UK)
I am trying to trace anything about Alice Watkins WALMSLEY, and her ancestors.

She was born c1859 in Ireland (I do not know which County).
I believe her father was James Fitzallen WALMSLEY, also born Ireland. It is possible she had sisters, Francis and Charlotte.

She was resident in Chester by 1881 census, and worked as a post office telegraphist in Lioverpool. She married Alfred John WOLFE in November 1884 at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church in Toxteth Park, Liverpool. She went on to live in this area until her death in 1935.

Any help most gratefully received!!
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Thursday 14 August 08 19:37 BST (UK)
Hi Susie,
what makes you believe that her father is James and she may have those sisters?

I saw the two sisters in 1881 with the Randalls where they are names as 'sister law'  :-\ can't as yet link them to the Randalls

Then I found the Walmsleys in 1871- I am assuming that you haven't got this

1871 RG10; Piece: 3840; Folio: 9; Page: 16
77 Phythian Street West Derby

James Walmsley 56 yrs superannuate coast guard
Margaret 52 yrs
Elizabeth 19 yrs
Isaac G 15 yrs employed in telegraph office
Frances J 14 yrs pupil teacher
Charlotte 12 yrs scholar
Alice 11 yrs scholar

all born Ireland

will look further

best wishes
heywood

Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Thursday 14 August 08 19:57 BST (UK)
Can't find parents and other siblings in 1881.
Do you have Frances and Charlotte in 1891 - Frances married Reuben Ashton

1891 RG12; Piece: 633; Folio 54; Page 19
has both sisters born Liverpool (was hoping that they would have a more specific place of birth) 1901 also says Liverpool.  :-\
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 09:40 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for these replies!
I hadn't seen that 1871 entry at all!  :D

I have found these two possible marriages of a James WALMSLEY and Margaret ? in Ireland on the LDS website. The ages roughly stack up.

a) James WALMSLEY & Margaret THOMSON - 15 NOV 1848 - Killesher, Fermanagh, Ireland
 
b) James WALMSLY &  Margaret HARRIS - 01 DEC 1849 662, Desertserges, Cork, Ireland.  Husband Age at Marriage:  36; Wife Age at Marriage:  30

Would be nice to know where they originally came from. Will try sourcing the births of the various children for clues...

Alice's middle name was WATKINS and her James's was FITYZALLEN, so I wonder if these names could be clues to a previous generation?!

I also believe that James was a Custom House Officer at Holyhead (received information, no real source) - would there be any way to trace him through the coast guard/custom office ?

Thanks so much for your help! Really appreciated as I'm very new to all this really...

Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 09:51 BST (UK)
Incidentally, Isaac G. WALMSLEY appears on the 1880 US Census in Vancouver City!
  Other Information:
    Birth Year <1856> 
    Birthplace IRE 
    Age 24 
    Occupation Soldier 
    Marital Status S <Single> 
    Race W <White> 
    Head of Household John TOHHEL
  Source Information:
    Census Place District 3, Vancouver City, Clark, Washington 
    NA Film Number T9-1396
    Page Number 72D       

And interestingly, Alice Walmsley's son, Herbert Stuart WOLFE, was a Royal Canadian Dragoon. Perhaps he was following in the footsteps on Uncle Isaac!? I am awaiting Hernert's military file form Canada as it remains a mystery why he went to Canada... 


No joy yet with more specific birthplaces...'Ireland' doesn't really narrow it down!?
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 10:07 BST (UK)
BINGO!!!!

I have found the christening of Frances Jane WALMSLEY in the online Ballymoney Parish Records. It includes her parents, father's occupation (Policeman) and the witnesses, who include members of the HArris family, which leands me to conclude that her mother was MArgaret HArris, who's possible marriage to James I listed above!

http://home.alphalink.com.au/~datatree/wolf%2019.htm

I'm so happy to have made a little breakthrough!

Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 10:47 BST (UK)
that is brilliant news  ;D

I am so pleased for you and you did it yourself which is special  :D

The only reservation is the distance between Cork and Antrim. However - as a policeman he may well have travelled around.

It's also good that you got Isaac.
great discoveries   :-*
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 10:49 BST (UK)
have just seen the baptism - that's her - so was Mr Wolfe from there too?

http://www.failteromhat.com/

I wonder if this is James in Griffiths Valuation?

Click on census directories - then Griffiths from the drop down and enter Walmsley- Antrim.
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 10:58 BST (UK)
similarly if Margaret was from Cork there is this:

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/cork/desertserges.htm
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 11:00 BST (UK)
Yes - a good morning's progress!  ;D

As for Alice's husband...Alfred John WOLFE was born in Toxteth Park, Liverpool on19 Dec 1859. However...his parents were James Henry WOLFE (b. c1833 Liverpool)and Mary Ann FITZELL (b. c1830, Ireland). It is hard to decipher some of the census information, but I think that Ms FITZELL was born in Tarbert, Co. Kerry. I am totally stumped by her though and the Palatines. My research knowledge is just not up to the Irish records!

For a little colour...here's a photo of Alfred Wolfe:

Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 11:05 BST (UK)
Sorry - didn't mean to pst such a HUGE photo!?    :-[

Heywood - excuse my stupidity...but how did you come up with Antrim?
What makes you think that he was from Antrim?  ???

I only have Cork connections don't I?
The wedding and christenings were all in Cork?

Sorry if I'm being very slow...
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 11:15 BST (UK)
sorry - it's me who is slow! I had it into my head - from the Fermanagh marriage yesterday and other Northern Ireland names - thought it was Ballymoney Antrim  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 11:19 BST (UK)
have you seen this?

http://www.paulturner.ca/Ireland/Cork/Ballymoney%20Parish/bp-text-4.htm

1848 - ... Walmsly wife of James head constable Ballineen interred -- James' parents?
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 15 August 08 11:23 BST (UK)
Baptism for Frances J. Walmsley is Parish of Ballymoney but not Ballymoney in County Antrim. Couldn't find a townland called Ballineen in Cork but Shanavagh which is also in the Parish records is in Cork. The baptism for Frances is Church of Ireland which will be helpful when persuing church records.
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 15 August 08 11:25 BST (UK)
have you seen this?

http://www.paulturner.ca/Ireland/Cork/Ballymoney%20Parish/bp-text-4.htm

1848 - ... Walmsly wife of James head constable Ballineen interred -- James' parents?
Or a first wife of James'?
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 11:26 BST (UK)
Morning aghadowey   :D

that paul turner site also seems to indicate that there were two Frances Janes in the baptisms - thought it may be the same one but dates of birth are different.
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 11:27 BST (UK)
I have days like that!  :D

---

Meanwhile, the Wolfe family plot thickens...
I will try and summarise the background.

My mother-in-law's father was Herbert Stuart WOLFE. When she was a child, he 'disappeared'. Something of a charismatic wanderer by all accounts. He went to sea one day and never came home. His mother, Alice, received a letter in 1935 postmarked 'Wellington, New Zealand' saying little more than 'all is well', and that was it. Gone for ever - no contact with his wife or children...

I have recently discovered photos of him and see that he was in the Royal Canadian Dragoons. Interetsingly, I also have photos of him in the Royal Navy, aboard HMS Royal Oak in MArch 1917. At some point he must have joined both, but so far no luck tracing his UK military records. In fact no reference of him at all. (Did he name change?! Who knows...) The real mystery is how he ended up in the Canadian military though!?

Anway, his father, James Henry WOLFE, was a ship's captain and master mariner. I have little of him, but he was resident in Liverpool at age 22(and I had been told born there). I contact LLoyd's shipping registers to see what I can find...and they have JUST replied to me. There is no reciord of a James Henry WOLFE but there is a James WOLFE born same time...and guess what...in Quebec, Canada! He was issued his captaincy certificate in Liverpool though. Do you think we have found the Canadian connection...?!

Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 11:28 BST (UK)
have you seen this?

http://www.paulturner.ca/Ireland/Cork/Ballymoney%20Parish/bp-text-4.htm

1848 - ... Walmsly wife of James head constable Ballineen interred -- James' parents?
Or a first wife of James'?

oh I'm slow this morning  ::)  need to get ready to go out now and am rushing  :o
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: SusieMc on Friday 15 August 08 13:12 BST (UK)
I am so stupid!

Just realised that Isaac G was in Vancouver City , Washington State USA not Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA! Oh well...
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 19:20 BST (UK)
glad to know it's not just me  ;D

Did you see the baptism of Mary Elizabeth 1851 in the Ballymoney records.
Title: Re: Alice Watkins WALMSLEY - help find her!
Post by: heywood on Friday 15 August 08 20:03 BST (UK)
I hesitate to say this after our track record but I am lost with your Wolfe family.
I take it that these and the Walmsleys are your mother in law's family?

I have found Mary Ann on censuses with absent husband. 1861 has her born Tarbert and a daughter Elizabeth 13 yrs born Cork. There is a big gap between Elizabeth and James H 3 yrs and Alfred 1 yr.
1871 she is there with children but not Elizabeth. She seems to have been married in 1870.
Can see Alfred and Frances in 1881 but not others.

Now in 1891 Frances M Wolfe is visiting the Randalls - who the Walmsley girls were with in 1881 as 'sisters in law' A John Randall cousin is there born Cork.
Confusion reigns and you can explain it all to me - over a gin and tonic!

1901 Frances is with your Alice and Alfred. (I understand them  ;))

Am I right that James H Wolfe (son of Mary Ann) is the father to Herbert Stuart Wolfe (mother in law's father) and that Alfred Wolfe and Alice Walmsley are just completing the picture (not direct ancestors)?


Just seen your earlier post re Mary Ann  - accounts for Elizabeth's early birth!