RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: CoryJR on Wednesday 13 August 08 22:21 BST (UK)
-
If anyone knows any information (parents, siblings, marriages, children, where they lived, died etc) about the following people let me know. These are my direct blood relatives as far back as I can go in England & Wales. Perhaps you will read the following and come across a root relative of yours and we can start to patch up some missing pieces. Thank-you in advance!
William Roberts & Sarah Fletcher got married at St. George's Church in Birmingham on November 9th 1857. William was 22 & Sarah was 25. Looking for Baptism records of the two, plus need info on each mother.
Thomas Roberts was William's father although I have no idea when he was born or where. He lived on Boerr St. in Birmingham and was a Farmer's Bailiff. I would love to move another generation up from here.
Moses Fletcher was Sarah's father who also lived on Boerr St. and was a Japanner. I don't know his date of birth or where. Another generation?
-----------------------------------------
Charles Poyser William Brown & Martha Creed got married October 5th 1869 in The Parish Church in Wolverhampton. Charles was 28 & Martha 26. Both families lived on Clarence St. then Salop st. in Wolverhampton. Charles father was named Joseph Brown & was a Gate Keeper. I don't have any other info than this. I would also like to know who Charles' mother was.
Martha's parents were William Creed & Mary Ann Shenton. They were married in 1838. I will soon have info on each father but if anyone knows who their mothers were please let me know.
-------------------------------------------
Kathleen Cummins (nee Evans) gave birth to a Dora Lavinia Wright Cummins on December 18, 1902. Dora's Father was Alfred Wright Cummins who was a Iron Roof Erector (Iron worker) in the county of Walsall, UK. They lived on Oxford St. I don't any details on when Kathleen & Alfred were married or any above generations on either side from here.
-------------------------------------------
Owen Jones & Jane Hughes were married in 1884 in Pwllheli, Wales. At this point, I do not know when Owen & Jane were born. Owen was a Farm Labourer. Jane eventually gave birth to a Moses Henry Eames Jones on November 18, 1898. There may be other siblings. Same as before looking for info on Owen & Jane's parents or anything else anybody has.
------------------------------------------
John Lloyd Williams married a Jane Anne Evans on April 6th 1900 in the District of Ffestiniog in Wales. John was 26 years old & Jane was 21. John was a Slate Miner. John's father was John Williams Sr. and was born around 1846 and most likely worked at the same place as he was a Slate Quarrier. John Sr. married a Catherine however I do not know what her last name was. Looking for more information on anything here.
------------------------------------------
Robert Evans & Jane Pugh were married in 1842 in/around the district of Dolgelly, Wales. They had 8 children. Robert Evans was born in 1817 & Jane was born in 1818. Robert's father was named Evan, Evans who was born around 1795.
Robert's son Robert Jr. was born around 1848 and eventually went on to marry an Elizabeth Williams. She was born in 1850. Elizabeth's parents were Griffith Williams & Susanah. This is all I know on this part of the tree.
-------------------------------------------
-
Re: Sarah Fletcher - here is the 1851 census for Loar St Wolverhampton
Moses Fletcher 42 japanner and beer seller b Wolverhampton
Mary 41 b Wolverhampton
Edward 20 b Birmingham
Sarah 18 b Wolverhampton
Elizabeth 11 b Wolverhampton
Emily 9 b Wolverhampton
William 6 b Salop (Shropshire)
Jane 3 b Wolverhampton
Joseph 8 Months b Wolverhampton
HO107; Piece: 2018; Folio: 371; Page: 21
1841 census for Loar St (could be Soar St)
Moses Fletcher 30 japanner
Mary 30
Edward 10
Sarah 8
Betsey 2
HO107 Piece 1000/8 Folio 17 Page 27
-
Wow thats terrific news. Funny the writing I have looks like Boerr St but its so hard to read it could easily say something else.
And how do you get access to these census reports?
Thank-you!
-
Hi
www.ancestry.co.uk has census images and index for 1841-1901 for England and Wales plus the full BMD index from 1837-2005
It also has the 1841-1901 Scottish census indexed but no images
You can pay monthly or buy an annual subscription (£69.95)
-
Hi
Some questions before I check any of the others out.
Do you have any of the couples listed on any census? The 1881 census is free to search at www.familysearch.org
If so - can you list their respective birthplaces from the census as surnames like Roberts, Brown, Hughes and Jones are very difficult to research without knowing their birthplace
Owen Jones & Jane Hughes were married in 1884 in Pwllheli, Wales. At this point, I do not know when Owen & Jane were born. Owen was a Farm Labourer. Jane eventually gave birth to a Moses Henry Eames Jones on November 18, 1898. There may be other siblings. Same as before looking for info on Owen & Jane's parents or anything else anybody has.
Have you sent for their marriage cert
-
The 1861 has a Martha Creed b 1844 Wolverhampton in service in Wolverhampton so it's probably her - I'll check the 1851 and email the image to you
-
Hi
18 Jul 1838 st peters
William Creed 25 servant Bradley father william Creed dealer
Mary Ann Shinton 23 servant Bradley father Thomas Shinton Farmer
witness
Elizabeth Shinton & John Biddulph
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory
Donna
-
Yeah I have some marriage certificates and others are coming. Yeah Creed was easier for me to find trace back a bit. I have a ordered one for William Creed & Mary Ann Shinton (I thought it said Shenton) but again its hard to read. - Wow - but it looks like Donna has traced it as well!
The Jones go back to the Pwllheli area. I am assuming Owen Jones & Jane Hughes were born there was well. When I get their marriage cert it should tell me how old they are in 1884.
-
And thanks Carole - I can't wait to see the Image of the Creed's in 1851!
-
Charles Poyser William Brown & Martha Creed got married October 5th 1869
Charles was b Worcester according to the 1871 census
I am emailing 1851 for Martha plus 1871
-
John Lloyd Williams married a Jane Anne Evans on April 6th 1900 in the District of Ffestiniog in Wales. John was 26 years old & Jane was 21
You should be able to find them on the 1881 census which is free at www.familysearch.org
I can't find a Cummins/Evans marriage either nor can I find a birth for an Alfred Wright Cummins. I wonder if it was a hyphenated surname Wright-Cummins?
There is no 1901 entry in Staffs for either him or Kathleen but have a look at the 1881 census for 9mth old Kathleen E Evans b Staffs Wolverhampton - parents Daniel and Emily. Daniel was a baptist minister
-
Yeah for some reason the Cummins/Evans marriage seems to be not on record. Its one of the only marriage certificates I could not find either. I wonder if they evan got married? Or perhaps they just didn't make record of it. I don't think it was hyphenated.
I saw the Kathleen E. Evans census, I have no idea at this point if thats her. Dora her daughter was born in the counties of Walsall & Stafford which I believe is close to Wolverhampton....I will have to find out what the E. stands for.
Yes I have the marriage certificate of Charles & Martha in 1869. Charles I see was born in Worcester (finally I have found out!) but for some reason I can not find his birth certificate. I have been searching on that freebmd website but still nothing yet. Still investigating here...
I am going to search out that familysearch.org website a bit further next tuesday - I am wrapped up this weekend but am excited to do so.
Carole you have been great thus far! Are you currently living in England? My wife and I live in Ontario, Canada.
Cory
-
Hi
I'm in England.
If it's the right Kathleen Evans - with her father a Baptist Minister you would imagine there was a marriage
She was still single in the 1901 census so must have married between March 1901-December 1902 - if they married before Dora's birth. I've checked the full GRO index for that period but no sign of a marriage
-
living in llanengan,merionethshire wales in 1901-
owen jones 46yrs cattleman on farm born
jane 37yrs wife born llanengan
winifred 10yrs daughter born llanengan
robert.s 6yrs son born llangenan
moses.h.e 2yrs son born llanengan
also listed with this family is-
mary.a dean widowed sister 59yrs
caroline jones 33yrs unmarried daughter of mary
SOURCE INFO-RG13-5264
FOLIO-103
PAGE-10
regards
alli
-
still in llanengan in 1891-
owen jones 36yrs labourer
jane 27yrs wife
mary 6yrs daughter
john 4yrs son
winifred 9 months daughter
also living next door is
jane jones widowed 58yrs
caroline jones 17yrs unmarried daughter
SOURCE INFO-RG12-4652
FOLIO-41
PAGE-7
regards
alli
-
Thats fantastic Alli, thank-you so much!! I am still learning about all this census stuff. So if they check this every 10 years. How do I get a census for a particular family in 1901 & then 1911. On my Roberts' side of the family...I am looking for the household information for:
1901 Wolverhampton or surrounding area -
Head of Household - Walter Roberts. He is 31 years old at this time. His Wife - Rebecca Mary Roberts (nee Brown). But it could just say - Mary Brown.
They should have a series of children by this point. I am interested in finding out the names and ages.
1911 Wolverhampton or surrounding area -
Head of Household - Walter Roberts. He is 41 years old at this time. His Wife - Rebecca Mary Roberts (nee Brown). But it could just say - Mary Brown.
In 1906 my Great-Grandfather was born Alfred Donald Roberts. My family always told me he was the 10th born of 10 children.
Let me know if you can search out this record or how do I go about in doing so.
Thanks again!
-
well the 1911 cencus is not available as yet but the 1901 is
living at 76 salop street,wolverhampton in 1901
william roberts 65yrs widower garment dyer and gardener born salop shrewsbury
walter 31yrs married son brass caster born wolverhampton
arthur 30yrs unmarried son spectacle frame maker born wolverhampton
mary 29yrs daughter in law born wolverhampton
william 10yrs grandson
arthur 9yrs grandson
ernest 7yrs grandson
laura 5yrs grandaughter
john 3yrs grandson
all grandchildren born wolverhampton
SOURCE INFO-RG13-2673
FOLIO-149
PAGE-20
regards
alli
-
Thanks alli!
-
I have been searching for Charles Brown and Martha Creed. Martha Creed is at home with her parents till 1861 when she is a servant after which she marries Charles. I have bought about 10 birth certificates for Charles who was born in Kinver Staffordshire and subsequently lived in the Kidderminster area. his father was reported as Joseph Brown, Toll Keeper in Broadwaters Kidderminster and Bewdly, though family history has otherwise. Do you have a family story relating to this? Mother was Rebecca Brown, formerly Poyser, formerly Phillips, nee Marchant born in Ludlow. Her father was James marchant and her mother was Hannah Pilson. Any more information would be most welcome!!!!
-
what are you actually looking for?
the 2 of them after marriage or before marriage?
regards
alli
-
Ok, so as you know one of my family links goes back to a Charles Poyser Brown & Martha Creed. Your right Charles father was named Joseph Brown. On Charles & Martha's marriage certificate it says that Joseph was a Gate Keeper. This was in 1869. Wow, you got who Charles' mother was - Rebecca Marchant. How come there are two other "formerly names"? Martha's parents were William Creed (Servant) & Mary Ann Shinton (Servant). They got married in 1838. William's father was also named William Creed and it says somewhere that he was a Dealer? I don't know who he married. On the other side, Mary Ann Shinton parents were Thomas Shinton (Farmer) & Elizabeth. Most of these families seem to be in the Wolverhampton area except for Charles' family which did come from Worcester.
-
Oh and L.H.S where did you get the information for Rebecca Brown (mother of Charles Brown) parents - James Marchant & Hannah Pilson. I would like to tap into this info so I can add it to my tree.
-
In the 1851 Census, Joseph Brown is living with Rebecca Brown and two children, Charles and Harriet. In the 1861 Census their children are Charles and Ellen. I have not yet obtained Harriet's birth certificate but I do have her death certificate in 1857 aged 14 from Typhus Fever. Ellen is Ellen Elizabeth born 1856. Her mother is Rebecca Brown, formerly Marchant. The Census tells us she was born in Ludlow. IGI tells us that Rebecca Marchant born around 1812 in Ludlow has James and Hannah as her parents. The 1841 census shows Rebecca Phillips living with a number of children in Kinver as well as Hannah Marchant and Mary Marchant. This suggests that Rebecca married a ____ Phillips. The IGI confirms this and she married Thomas Phillips in Eye, Hereford in1830. He died in 1838 of Apoplexy. A Rebecca Phillips married a Thomas Poyser in Kidderminster in 1838 which I think was technically illegal since she had not been widowed a year so she fudges her details. He disappears by 1841 but may just not be making his presence known-I have searched the BMD and Censuses with every variant I can think of but cannot work out what happened to him. My family history maintains he is Charles' father but that he died whilst Charles was in Utero. Since I can neither find Charles' birth record nor Thomas' death record I have drawn a blank here. This is where I wonder if anyone has an oral history that would give us a hint. Obviously Rebecca is with Joseph in 1851 although again I can find no record of a marriage.
Joseph came from a hamlet called Fingerpost in the parish of Rock in Worcestershire and is there with his family in 1841.
William Creed's father is I believe the William Creed who is a wool stapler in Cirencester in the 1841 Census.
-
I have just noticed the other part of your query.
Rebecca Mary Ann Brown was born in 1874. She was known as Polly. She was always a bit posh and would serve tea in the parlour.
In 1890 Mary Rebecca P(for Poyser)Brown married Walter Roberts (1869)
Walter Roberts was the son of William and Sarah and had brothers and sisters, Arthur (1871), John (1864), Sarah A (1864), Clara (1866) and Laura (1872).
Polly and Walter had five children by 1901:
William Walter (1890), Arthur(1892), Ernest(1893), Laura(1896) and John(1899).
Walter was a brass caster and Arthur was a spectacle frame maker
-
Wow thats great information. So L.H.S are you also a decendant of these families? How are you related to all of this? Are you living in England?
Walter Roberts & "Polly" are my Great, Great Grandparents.
They eventually had Alfred Donald Roberts in 1906 which my family say was the 10th born of the family. This was my Great, Grandfather.
Alfred Roberts marries Dora Cummins and they had 4 children including my Grandfather - Paul Roberts Sr.
Paul Roberts Sr. eventually has 1 child in a brief marriage to Winnifred Jones - My father - Paul Roberts Jr.
Paul Roberts marries Anna Kovacs and so then I was born in 1980. Cory Roberts. We are all living in Ontario, Canada.
I am the only one out of all my relatives that has pulled up all this info so I don't know of any other stories of Joseph Brown & Rebecca. I only found out they were my past relatives about 1 month ago.
-
Yes I am related to you!
Polly's sister Ethel Gertrude(1878) is my Great Grandmother.
I am sad you don't have any stories passed down because there are clearly a few blanks yet to be filled in.
I live in London. When did your family travel to Canada?
If I find out anything else, I'll post it here.
-
If anyone knows any information (parents, siblings, marriages, children, where they lived, died etc) about the following people let me know. These are my direct blood relatives as far back as I can go in England & Wales. Perhaps you will read the following and come across a root relative of yours and we can start to patch up some missing pieces. Thank-you in advance!
I believe I may be the direct descendent of Alfred Wright Cummins - who's son Dennis Edward Cummins is my father - My Name is Robert William Cummins from Adelaide Australia
Please contact me if this looks like the line you are looing for
-----------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Kathleen Cummins (nee Evans) gave birth to a Dora Lavinia Wright Cummins on December 18, 1902. Dora's Father was Alfred Wright Cummins who was a Iron Roof Erector (Iron worker) in the county of Walsall, UK. They lived on Oxford St. I don't any details on when Kathleen & Alfred were married or any above generations on either side from here.
-------------------------------------------
-
Hello Robert!
You are a distant cousin to me. Your father had a brother named Harry. I was told your father and family went to Australia in the 1940's, returning to England for a time and then back to Australia in the 1960's. My trail in searching for this family ended there. Can you e-mail me? Perhaps we can exchange information on this part of the family tree. I have added more info over the years but I am lacking photographs. I do have 1 photograph of Alfred & Kate holding Dora Cummins and her sister probably taken around 1905. email address removed by Moderator, please use the PM system to exchange private information
Cory Roberts
-
Hi Cory, yes Harry was dad's brother, I believe he has now passed
I have some limited info on the families arrival, return to the UK and then when Dad decided to come live here and stay that I am happy to share
-
As I am a new member I have to post three times before I can access or use the PM system, so I have split this post up to make three (hope it works)
There do not appear to be any other lines of the Cummins family that are related directly here in Australia that I have found, but I do have good access to all the local research resources here in Australia, just starting my family history search on this side of the family, and I will see Dad soon, so will attempt to gather more info so it can be recorded
Will work out how to get you my email address but if it doesn't work and you are on facebook so am I - my name there is Robby Cummins and I am from Adelaide South Australia