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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Dan Waddell on Wednesday 13 August 08 20:12 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Apologies if this is in the wrong section, but I couldn't seem to start a new topic in the 'Wanted' section.
Also apologies for this approach, but I figured that if you were kind enough to help West Mercia police then you'd maybe help me!
I wrote a couple of books that accompanied the first two series of WDYTYA? Penguin have just published my first crime novel, The Blood Detective, which features a genealogist helping the police track a serial killer.
Now that I've plugged it ;) I'll get on with my plea for help. I'd really like to get in touch with people who have an ancestor who was a murderer. If any of you on here have such an ancestor, or knows someone who does, and would be willing to get in touch with me, then feel free to send me a pm or email me on dan [--at--] dan.waddell.net . I'd love to hear from you.
Thanks. And sorry for the intrusion.
cheers
Dan
www.danwaddell.net (http://www.danwaddell.net)
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [AT] with @
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Hi Dan, welcome to Rootschat.
First of all let me say that I don't have any ancestors who were murderers so I can't help you in that respect. I read your post at 8:58 so have been watching WDYTYA and am sure many Rootschatters will have been. I then saw that there were no answers to your post and didn't want you to think you've been ignored.
My reply will bring your post back up to the top of the board though, so maybe someone who has just signed on will notice it now. I'm sure there will be someone on RC who has that particular skeleton in their cupboard!
Your novel sounds really interesting, will check it out. And please don't think you have intruded, I'm sure many other Rootschatters will be interested to read your post.
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Thanks for the welcome Roobarb. And for the bump too. I was a bit unsure where to put my post so I'm relieved to know it's not in the wrong place.
I saw WDYTYA too. Pretty good. Sounds weird, but I prefer it when it's not actors myself.
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As far as I have been able to establish, one of my ggg-uncles, a chap by the name of William Scully, was convicted of wilful murder in 1883 for stabbing a love rival in the neck. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison, but seems to have only served about 7 years, since he appeared back at home with the family for the 1891 census.
Lots of newspaper reports about the case. The only real rogue I've found (so far) in my tree.
Glen
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I saw WDYTYA too. Pretty good. Sounds weird, but I prefer it when it's not actors myself.
I know what you mean Dan, they could be putting the emotion on! I don't think Patsy was though, I found it quite touching, she was so pleased to find out that her ancestors weren't all rogues. And it's the only time I've seen her face crease! (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Winks/b-wink.gif)
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No known murderers in my family. I have victims, though, if they are of any use to you.
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Thanks for your replies (and the kind mod who saved me from death by spam :-* )
Erato, are those victims of murder?
Any more with blood on/in their ancestral trails who are willing to contact me would be great, or if you want to know anything about my book or anything like that, just ask.
cheers
Dan
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Hi Dan
Welcome to Rootschat and the book sounds interesting.
I am sure someone on the Sussex board has links to the chap involved in the Onion Pie murder in Sussex. A woman hanged for murdering her husband and her lover got off. I think his name was Hickman. I will search and see if I can lead you to the right person. It is a fascinating story.
Kerry
Added - this is the thread about it http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,289858.0.html but on reading again it looks like they may not have proved he was an ancestor :-\
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Yes, victims in a notorious murder case in the USA.
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Thanks kerry, certainly sounds fascinating.
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Hi Dan
I have a great great uncle who killed his own brother in a fight (in 1883), but apart from one newspaper report I haven't been able to find any coroner's reports etc and it doesn't seem as he did any time for it.
Any use?
Del
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Hi everyone. Ta for all your replies (I got an email saying the topic was split ??? where did the other bit go?). Been away for a few days so will get in touch with those who got in touch with me, and posted here, as soon as I can.
cheers
Dan
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Hi
I have an ancestor who was allegedly murdered at age 18 in the North of England. The family story was that he was murdered, although there were no further details. Some time again while looking through the Wiganworld website I was very luckt to come across a transcribed newspaper report of a body found in 1890 which was that of my gg uncle. However, because the body was found quite mutilated near a railway track the police were assuming it was some sort of accident, though they said it was mysterious and were waiting for the coroner. I haven't been able to find anything else such as an inquest or coroner's report, but I can send you a copy of the article if you would like it.
Cheers
Wendy
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Ooh, this sounds interesting Dan - and welcome to rootschat!
There are many people on rootschat who have murderous ancestors or ancestors who were victims of murder. It's just a matter of them finding this thread so they can tell you their stories.
I remember one horrific murder somewhere in Australia - I think the father murdered the whole family. I may be wrong with this bit, but I think the researcher discovered that several of their ancestors died on the same day, so they dug deeper and discovered that they had been murdered.
Sorry to tease you with this, but I can't recall the details .... :-\ I wonder if anyone else can?
FOUND IT! ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/links/043z/
Dan I found this by "searching rootschat" for the word 'murder'.
The "search rootschat" button is at the top of the page in the middle. I knew I was looking for an Australian story, so I only ticked the Australian boxes to search. If you leave all the boxes ticked you'll no doubt get loads of hits. Good luck!
If you want to contact a particular person about their story, you can click on their name on the left, then you can send them a personal message.
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Hi Dan,
I also welcome you to rootschat. My ggg aunt was murdered by her fourth husband. He apparently sexually molested his step grandaughter and my ggg aunt found out so he shot her in the head then set fire to the house and her body was found amoungst the burnt debri. The husband was put in prison awaiting his trial but strangled himself a few days later in his prison cell with his belt I think it was. I have the newspaper reports on the murder but it is in very small print and I also have the coroners reports. This murder took place in Beaconsfield Tasmania Australia in January 1920.
Johngirl ;D
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My ggg aunt was murdered by her fourth husband. He apparently sexually molested his step grandaughter and my ggg aunt found out so he shot her in the head then set fire to the house and her body was found amoungst the burnt debri. The husband was put in prison awaiting his trial but strangled himself a few days later in his prison cell with his belt I think it was.
Nice guy! :o
I have no murderers that I know of, but one of my ancestors was transported for seven years for stealing the lead off the roof of St. Mary's church in Whitechapel. The same church where his 12 children had been christened!
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Hi Dan
Not mine, unfortunately - but my husbands ancestor was a murderess.
Margaret Percival married 4 times; becoming Margaret Carter and mother to Mary Elizabeth Carter my husbands great grandmother on her second marriage. Her 4th husband was James Deakin whom she married in 1890. Margaret Deakin was convicted of murdering her lodger Elizabeth (Betty) Heald, on January 26th 1894, who she believed to be having an affair with her husband James and ended up in Knutsford Gaol after having her death sentence commuted to penal servitude because of her age, she was 64. The Northwich Chronicle of the time has various articles regarding this.
The manner of Betty Healds death was by a knife wound and Margaret was arrested in Deansgate Manchester.
I was contacted by a descendant of James Deakin, who sent me transcripts of articles written at the time - it came as a bolt from the blue, because non of my husbands family knew anything about it and as his own grandfather (Margaret's grandson) had been a policeman I am not surprised it was not spoken off.
Regards
Siouxzie
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Hi all!
This is part reply... part query,
I have a 3x or is it 4x Gr.grandmother who seems to have been murdered, from her death certificate I have,
"08 October 1850 at St.Martin, Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire death of Elizabeth Barnard, female 47 years, widow of Michael Barnard, Parish Clerk. Died from the effect of violent injuries inflicted upon her by some person or persons unknown. Reported by NM Cozens, Coroner, Dew Street, Haverforwest."
How would I go about finding more info?
Buckaroo
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There is a website where you can send off (for a small fee) details of what happened..She is showing on that site.
http://www.blacksheepindex.co.uk/BSI-BarBarr.pdf
I also have a murderer in my family, he killed his wife and 2 children with a cutthroat razor and then killed himself (1903). the accounts of the murder in the local papers are very descriptive and entertaining in a ghoulish sort of way.
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Fab... thank you Woody
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Hi,
My Partner is related to James Hickman the man that Sarah French nee Piper poisioned her husband to be with - with arsenic in an onion pie on Christmas Day although he didnt die until 7th January 1852
My Partner is a Hickman by birth
Toni
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Did Dan ever get back to anyone regarding the Murderers in our families?
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Sounded like an interesting project. :)
I think there are a number of us who have read Dan's book The Blood Detective since his last visit to rootschat. ;)
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Did Dan ever get back to anyone regarding the Murderers in our families?
i don't know but thought i'd register my interest.
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http://www.blacksheepindex.co.uk/BSI-BarBarr.pdf
Ohhhhh goodness, I just looked on here out of curiosity ...................decided to have a look at some of my family surnames ................and I found 2 relatives that appear to have been murdered (theres a death enry on free bmd for the corresponding name & date!)
Theres also a Name on the Railways list that I know is one of mine too!
hmmmm question now is - do I send off for the death certs as they are both twigs not direct branches of my tree..........
Gaille
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He never got back to me - but mine were victims and in the US.
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hmmmm question now is - do I send off for the death certs as they are both twigs not direct branches of my tree..........
It depends on how curious you are !! and would it niggle at you until you sent off for at least one of them :)
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Hi
I have a twig named William Cornelius Jones, hanged at Armley goal Leeds 1927 for murder of wife and unborn child. He was in the Territorial Army and shot her with his service rifle.
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i did some research into Thomas Bentley who i thought was mine but the found wasnt mine he bashed his wifes head in newspaper reports said he was a lay about eager to live off his childrens earnings and jealous of his wife although he had no need to be, after he killed his wife he hung/hanged himself, the irony is he lived by the rope and died by the rope i have his birth and right through the census til his death plus childrens details and that of his mother, father and stepfather.
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My 3xgreatgrandmother, Jane Cheeseman, was allowed to plead not guilty to murder at the Old Bailey in July1836 because she had pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of her 14 year old niece, Sarah Jane Cheeseman. Sarah Jane and her younger sister Susanna Isabella (aged 11) were forced by Jane to sew two pairs of 5d stays (women's corset-type underwear) each, often working from six in the morning to late at night, every day except Sunday on piecework for a local agent. Sarah Jane had TB (and this was given as the official cause of death by the workhouse doctor who attended her the day before she died) but she had not received any medical attention as Jane believed she was feigning illness to avoid the sewing, for which she was regularly severely beaten by Jane. The local paper had extensive details of the case under the headline "Shocking Case of Cruelty", which made shocking reading and the case had apparently caused an outcry in the Deptford area at the time with Sarah Jane's widowed father being forced to leave the inquest "under the protection of the police, amidst the yells and execrations of assembled hundreds, who had surrounded the house from six o'clock the commencement of the enquiry til past one o'clock this morning".
Jane was sentanced to two years imprisonment with hard labour, meanwhile her teenage daughter, my 2x greatgrandmother, had two trials herself at the Old Bailey for theft and deception and admitted to working part time as a "lady of the night". I must admit it forced me to revise my previously rosy picture of my ancestors as "horny-handed sons of toil" of which I had been so proud and to admit that some had obviously suffered from ignorance and emotional poverty as well as material poverty.
Ermy
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HI Dan
Nothing really to do with your post but have just bought your book !! Someone recommended it to me as I've love murder/mystery and also genealogy they thought it would interest me.
Anyway welcome to Rootschat ;D
Fiona
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I have a great-uncle who disappeared without trace in about 1925 and apparently no-one in the family knows what happened to him, so I guess he could have been killed. Or, of course, just run off with another woman, changed his name, emograted.... I do have a relative mid 19C who was in gaol but I haven't succeeded in finding out why yet. Someone earlier mentioned the Wigan website so that might be a place to look since we're Wiganers.
Cheers
Catherine
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I have a twig named William Cornelius Jones, hanged at Armley goal Leeds 1927 for murder of wife and unborn child. He was in the Territorial Army and shot her with his service rifle.
I can see from the Eastwood in your sig that you have a connection with Mary Crelley (née Eastwood) the mother of the young woman Jones murdered.
Have you found out any more about the case, the parties involved, or their family backgrounds?