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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: JohnTSmith on Saturday 09 August 08 22:51 BST (UK)
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Hi I am trying to trace my wifes family tree, and arrived in Mayo with Martin Burns born around 1848 who married a Bridget Costello born around 1850. In about 1868 they moved to Rotherham, and had a number of children. The first was Thomas in 1869.
I found on this site a in 1832 Jno COSTELLO married to Bridget CHRISTOPHER April 1
Could this have been her mother and father?.
I noticed that there are not many Burns in this area?
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You can't assume any kind of a relationship without more proof. First of all there are variations in spelling- Burns, Burnes, Byrnes, etc. Then, you have to know where these individuals lives (parish if not townland not just the county).
Costello is another very common surname in Ireland and the Christian name Bridget is even more common (St. Bridget is one of the patron saints of Ireland and long been a popular name for Catholic girls).
Civil registration of births in Ireland began 1864 so there will be no birth certificate for Bridget Costello. If she and Martin were married in a Catholic ceremony before 1864 in Ireland there will be no civil registration of their marriage. In those cases you need to search for church records (if they exist).
Not sure why you think there weren't many families named Burns in Co. Mayo. In IGI (using Burns and Co. Mayo) there are 179 records for Burns- and only a small portion of Irish records are actually in IGI.
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Hi thanks for the reply.
On her sons Birth Cert it said "Mayo Ireland" for where the mother was born.
On the name Burns, there are none listed on the Marriage page on this site. I looked on another site thinking I would see lots of Burns, but found none. On the 1881 English census the family is called Bryne, but not on the 1871, 1891 or the 1901.
I do not have proof that is why i asked the question
I found on this site a in 1832 Jno COSTELLO married to Bridget CHRISTOPHER April 1
Could this have been her mother and father. He had her name, and his wife had her first name.
I was hoping that somebody may have them in their family tree.
Martin and Bridget would have been married after 1864, as she would have been only 14 then.
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If the marriage (Michael and Bridget) took place after 1864 then the marriage certificate should list the names and occupations of both fathers. It will also show residences of bride and groom at the time of the marriage.
Not sure what sites you are refering to here:
On the name Burns, there are none listed on the Marriage page on this site. I looked on another site thinking I would see lots of Burns, but found none. On the 1881 English census the family is called Bryne, but not on the 1871, 1891 or the 1901.
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Hi,
This looks like them on Free BMD
March quarter 1868 Rotherham vol 9c pg 582
Martin Byrne and Bridget Costello
that certificate should give more information as aghadowey states. However as they married in Rotherham you won't get the Irish information you need.
best wishes
heywood
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Thanks Heywood. The information I posted was for Irish marriage certificates but if they married in england there will be no details of where they came from in Ireland on the certificate.
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Hi thanks for that.
I have sent off for the marriageCert, and it may show me something, as on one of her sons it says from Mayo Ireland for Bridget.
We were told they came over from Ireland and were married in Ireland.
It will show me the fathers names, so i will know if it is the ones I asked about on my first post.
On the English census they changed their surname every time !!!
from Burns, to Byrne, to Bines, and back to Burns.
Thanks for the help, and will report back when I get the Cert which they are posting on 19th Aug.
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Marriage certificate should give the father's name but you still won't know the mother's name thus can't be sure if the record you found (1832 marriage) are actually for Bridget's parents. All the names (Burns, Costello, John, Bridget) are very common in Ireland.
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Like they say "it is another stone in the wall" :)
I found on this site a in 1832 Jno COSTELLO married to Bridget CHRISTOPHER April 1
It may just give me both these surnames.
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Irish marriage certificates do not list the mother's names- only name of fathers and heir occupations- so you still can't be sure if the couple getting married in 1832 are Bridget's parents.
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good luck with the certificate and let us know!
I did look around the censuses to see if either Martin or Bridget were there in 1861- did not look to be.
Take notice of the witnesses names- they may help.
heywood
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I have the copy of the Marriage Cert.
Bridget Costella father was called Patrick, so it is not the one I found as that was John.
Martins father was called John Byrne, both were dead in 1848.
I think I am now up a blind alley as I do not know just where they came from except Castlebar, and born about 1848.
Thanks for the help.
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Hi John,
Do not be dejected. At least you have more than most of us researching our Irish ancestry.
You have Castlebar, Mayo which can lead you to parish records if you know their religion.
I presume you meant that Martin and Bridgets fathers were both dead when they married in 1868, not 1848 :).
Good luck with your research.
Trish
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At least you have something - their marriage record. are the witnesses family at all- would they give any more clues?
Does it say on the certificate that they are from Castlebar ?
Realistically it is going to be difficult now- Castlebar could mean the town itself or the wider area.
regards
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At least you have something - their marriage record. are the witnesses family at all- would they give any more clues? No one called Smith !!
Does it say on the certificate that they are from Castlebar ? NO
Realistically it is going to be difficult now- Castlebar could mean the town itself or the wider area. I look on Google, and it could be any one from about 60 villages in that area
regards
It does not help that they keep changing the spelling of their name.
We are coming over next summer, and see if we can trace anything before then that could help us.
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sorry to keep prying- how sure are you that they are from Castlebar - either one or both?
It may be that they both arrived in England, single from different counties and met and married.
Who were the witnesses at the marriage? Could their names help?
cheers
heywood
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Agree with Heywood that you need to know more information to track down this couple. The marriage certificate lists the residences (townlands) of the bride and groom at the time of the marriage- what is listed for each of them on the certificate?
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They lived in Rotherham, which I knew, and I have them traced on all cenus from 1871 to 1901 where they lived in Oldham. I have the info this end, it is before they married, and lived in Ireland that I am searching out.
On one of their sons Birth Cert it said Mayo, and a aunty knew thew lived in Castlebar, but as they married in Rotherham did they both live in Castlebar, or just one of them?
I now have both their fathers names John Byrne and Patrick Costello.
They changed their (Martin and Bridget) names in England to Burns on the 1901 census, but on that they also said all of the children were born in Oldham, which we know is not true.
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It's hard I know and as we have said Castlebar could mean a who area and I would still wonder re both Mayo - presumably they didn't enter place of birth in any other census.
Funnily enough I live in Oldham with Mayo family too- it was my dad though so later times than censuses.
Sorry to harp on about it but do the witnesses not give clues?
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It's hard I know and as we have said Castlebar could mean a who area and I would still wonder re both Mayo - presumably they didn't enter place of birth in any other census.
Funnily enough I live in Oldham with Mayo family too- it was my dad though so later times than censuses.
Sorry to harp on about it but do the witnesses not give clues?
They signed with a X One was Patrick Smith and I can not read the other name, but there is no other details.
I have gone back to the 1841 Census looking up Patrick Costello (or near name) and there are two or three had daughters called Bridget, but not near her DOB. I have done thesame for Bridget, with father Patrick, but no luck.
So if they married ages 21 in Rotherham, why did they not marry in Ireland?, if they lived in England why do not any links come up on the 1861 census, and both fathers were dead by 1871, so I can not trace their family in England in 1871.
So both families could have left Ireland in/after1861, they must have lived in the rotherham area to marry there, and met in the mid 1860s and married in 1868.
The strange thing is, the witnesses did not have their names, so the families may not have come over from Ireland?. As they say "more questions than answers. !!!!
Do you live in Oldham, or Heywood? I worked there in the 60s.
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It's quite possible that Martin and Bridget came to England without their families shortly before their marriage and might not appear on earlier English census records.
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However as they married in Rotherham you won't get the Irish information you need.
Rotherham mightn't be a bad place to start looking for other families from Mayo. Some of them may have come from the same location in that county as John's ancestors. The place where people's ancestors settled after leaving Ireland can be one of the best places to discover where they lived whilst in Ireland.
An Analysis of the Irish population in Rotherham was conducted in 2005 ... the population there is above the national average http://tinyurl.com/5k9zt5
Christopher
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Hi Christopher,
I meant that the Mayo place names etc wouldn't be available.
Your point re starting in Rotherham is just what I mean when I mention the witnesses.
I did try to find Costello and Byrne in the earlier censuses in Rotherham with no joy.
As you say you often find streets etc with people from same area.
heywood