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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: Penholder on Saturday 09 August 08 20:53 BST (UK)
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I have a Thomas Bodsworth in my tree, the son of Richard Bodsworth (born Woburn, Beds) & Ann Brice (born Horton, Northants). Thomas was baptised at Horton 6th October 1816. He married Sarah Hakes at Piddington, Northants on 9th March 1839 and they had a son, James Bodsworth, baptised at Piddington 4th August 1839. I can't find Thomas & Sarah together in 1841 or son James, and in 1851 Sarah is living with her widowed mother and a 5 year old son called George Old Bodsworth.
I've been told Thomas Bodsworth went to Australia and married again there bigamously but the dates don't tie up. The information I have for Thomas Bodsworth in Australia is that he was born in Bedford in 1823 and died in 1866 age 69. Obviously this information is contradictory and it doesn't tie in at all with a baptism in 1816.
Any information regarding what happened to Thomas, Sarah, James & George very gratefully received.
Diana
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Hi Diana,
I believe I may be a descendant of the Thomas Bodsworth you refer to.
In Australia he Married Ellen Abagail Doherty on 31 May 1852 Hobart Tasmania.
They had 11 children. He would be my GGG grandfather.
My line goes like this:
Thomas 1816, Charles Edward 1867, Frederick Charles 1902, Henry William (my father) 1928 and me 1971.
The majority of the Bodsworth's settled in Victoria Australia.
I am hoping you can help me to go back further into our history in England as I do have some data but I am not sure how correct it is.
I got this information from a page that Mary Cotter put together, I have been in touch with her but she cant help with more info.
Kind regards
Marty Bodsworth
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Hi to you both. :)
Welcome to Rootchat.
Not sure if this relevant. :-\
Hardingstone Workhouse
On 24th Jun 1845 Sarah Bosworth (belonging to Horton) had an
illegitimate son named George baptised on 28 Sep 1845 in the Workhouse.
Sandy
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P.S.
The Hardingstone Workhouse was at Wootton where George
P.O.B. is noted on the 1851.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Many thanks indeed. I was fairly sure George Old Bodsworth wasn't the son of Thomas - presumably the clue to his father's surname is "Old".
I don't suppose you know if she also gave birth to Joseph Pearson Bodsworth there in 1849??
Are the Workhouse records in Northants Record Office?
Diana
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Hi Diana
I have just looked at the original images again and no Joseph
being baptised there.
There is nothing to say "OLD" in Georges name.
Yes the N.R.O. do hold the records.
I am afraid I had to sign a copyright form for personal use only not to be
passed on to anyone else, otherwise I would have sent you the image. :(
Hopefully you can copy it if you need it. :)
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Thanks for trying to find Joseph for me. In 1851 Sarah's son is called George Old Bodsworth in the census return. Either it's a different child or she added the Old bit later. I can't find a registration for George Bodsworth in 1845 with or without the Old bit
Diana
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HI again Diana
He is noted under BOSWORTH.
Registration says George Old Bosworth.
Sandy
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Hello cousin Sandy.......
Hi Diana ......
I have Bodsworth in hubbies tree....it is spelt Botsworth/ Bosworth and then changes to Botsford a few times....all Bedfordshire.
Tazzie
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Morning Tazzie :) :) :)
None Northants way then unless they crossed the border.
Sandy
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Sandy you're a marvel!
Many, many thanks,
Diana
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Hi Tazzie
Nice to hear from you. I don't suppose you can shed any light on the missing Thomas & his family can you?
Diana
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No not yet .... ;D
Bodsworths ...seem popular at the moment ...just ask Barnes on the Beds board .....
I am stuck at Benjamin Bodsworth b @ 1799 at present he marries Abigale Durrant...I have been told his father was Thomas Botsworth who married Mary Denton in Sundon 1798...but have no proof.
I haven't looked at this side for a while ...so maybe time to revisit and see what I can find.
Will get back to you ....
Tazzie
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George was registered as:
George Old Bosworth JAS 1845 Hardingstone Vol 15 Page 259
There is or was a village in Northants. called Old which may have also played into the choice of the child's middle name.
Beth
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Thanks Beth
I've got him now.
Diana
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I suppose Thomas BODSWORTH was transported then.
From the 1837-1860 Northamptonshire C of E marriage index here is a remarriage for his left at home wife
Richard PEARSON of this parish widower, full age, labourer, son of Edward a labourer
to
Sarah BODWORTH of this parish, widow, of full age, laundress, father Thomas HAKES a labourer
31st March 1851 at St Peter's in Northampton
Marilyn
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Hi Marylin
I can't tell you how happy I am to have this information. I thought there had to be a Pearson in there somewhere as in 1861 Sarah is married to William Garner and the only marriage I could find for him was to a Sarah Pearson in 1857. I reckon Richard Pearson would be the father of Joseph Pearson Bodsworth who was born in 1849. Sarah had quite a colourful life!
I had wondered if Thomas Bodsworth was transported but haven't found anything yet to confirm or deny it. I've searched his name in the National Archives with zero results.
Many thanks,
Diana
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http://vcp.e2bn.org/prisoners/2601-1-thomas-bodsworth.html
http://vcp.e2bn.org/prisoners/8259-1-thomas-bodsworth.html
These are links to a Thomas BODSWORTh who was in the Bedford gaol.
I wonder if they both refer to the same Thomas. (And if there is a connection)
Marilyn
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Hi Marilyn
Thank you once again. I will follow the links up now.
Diana
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Hi Diana
Other rootschatters have been busy. :)
Sarah married Richard the day after the 1851 Census.
http://vcp.e2bn.org/prisoners/2601-1-thomas-bodsworth.html
Not sure how the this link can be your Thomas as the date of offence
was 1815 and he was aged 21 and your Thomas wasn't born.
Other one not likely.
Sandy
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Thanks to Marilyn & Sandy
Neither of them were the right Thomas Bodsworth but it didn't matter - still interesting. It could prove a useful link in future, you never know!
Diana
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Hi Diana,
Just wondering if you needed information when Thomas went to Australia?
Regards
Marty
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Hi Marty :)
Could you list it so anyone else following the family/ies can have knowledge of it.
Also if he is the Northamptonshire Thomas we might be able to find out more.
Just had a look at your web site. Very informative.
Sandy
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Hi Marty
If you could give me the date he went to Australia that would be great. Also, how do you know he's the same Thomas Bodsworth? Are his parents on his marriage cert? Is there a family bible? Something else?!
Regards,
Diana
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I am wondering if one of those in Bedford gaol was the one that ended up in Tasmania
Marilyn
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You can see Marty's tree here.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/o/d/Marty-C-Bodsworth/
It notes Richard and son Thomas.
Sandy
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I have had a look at the tree, also the one on rootsweb.
It is a shame that Mary does not cite the source of her information.
There is another baptism of a Thomas in Piddington
Thomas son of Richard and Ann BODSWORTH
7th Jul 1811
I cannot look at the 1813+ baptism register for more.
Marilyn
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Hi Everyone
I am researching the Bodsworth family as well. It is thought that the Thomas Bodsworth 1811 Baptism died the same year.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
Hoped you would come across from the Beds forum.
Marty does say his information was left by his mother.
It would be nice to be able to help all of you to find the link to the Australian line.
Sandy
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As a few of you seem to be related.
Here are the marriage details for Thomas to Sarah from ther N.M.I.
Piddington Parish Church
01 Mar 1839
Thomas BODSWORTH otp, single, age 22, labourer, father Richard, labourer to
Sarah HAKES otp, single, age 21, father Thomas, labourer
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
I didn't receive my information from Marty i have received it from about four different people on the Bodsworth line all from different branches from the family so it hard to know where the original information came from. All have the same information that He married Sarah Hakes in Northampton and had two children then went to Australia and Married Ellen Doherty and had a big family over there. One of my contacts did mention that he could have been a soldier not sure if this is correct or not.
Sarah
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Also from the same index.
Piddington Parish Church
20 Feb 1814
Thomas HAKES otp to Tabitha PEARSON otp
Sandy
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Sorry Sarah
Posting at the same time.
If the information is correct then a baptism for Thomas of 1816
needs clarifying do you agree.
Sandy
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Okay maybe a request on the Australian Forum for a possible mention of Thomas's arrival.
Will link.
Sandy
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Good idea about the Australian board Sandy
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Hi Marilyn :)
It may help.
I am just looking through Alan's Mercury index in case Thomas is
mentioned in the paper.
Sandy
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Hello there Sandy
Just to clarify are you looking for an arrival in Tasamania for a Thomas Bodsworth born ?
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi Sandy
I was wondering what Tabitha's surname was. She and Thomas Hakes are my g.g.g.grandparents.
I have found a Richard Pearson, age 53, in the 1851 Census. He's a widower and living next door to Sarah's brother Joseph Hakes - the name is written Eakes in this census quite a lot, which is probably how it sounded to the enumerator. He's my best candidate for Sarah's second husband but he could be a couisn or uncle. Maybe that's why they didn't marry in Piddington. I reckon the marriage would have been bigamous anyway if Thomas Bodsworth was still alive in Australia.
Diana
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Hi Jenn
Nice to see you. :)
Reading the story it seems Thomas may have been a prisioner so yes please if any mention.
He was born in Piddington Northampton in 1816.
Sandy
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Hi Jenn
When Thomas Bodsworth went to Australia he Married and settled in Victoria if this is of any help at all.
Sarah
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Hello there Sandy
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8
this Thomas Bodsworth is alledgley born in 1923 and is married to an Ellen
but have a look
kind thought Jenn
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Hi Jenn
Now I am getting a head-ache. :) :) :)
Different birth date correct wife.
I think this is the one Diana mentioned at the begining of the thread.
Could have pretended to be younger to impress her.
Thanks for your assistance.
Sandy
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Hi Diana
I have noted the marriage on Reply 31.
Maiden name PEARSON. Oh no. :)
Sandy
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So then this couple has a lot of children in Victoria
a possible death
Thomas BODSWORTH died aged 69 in Cheltenham 1886 reg no 8641
father Richard mother Ann
Jenn
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Hi
Just looked on the IGI website for Thomas Bodsworth for 1811, 1817 and 1823 and all the pages come back with the same parents Richard and Ann Brice although some have been added by the public.
Sarah
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Our purpose is to establish whether this Thomas in Australia is the one from Piddington/Horton (who disappeared without trace) or if he is a different Thomas entirely.
Marilyn
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HI Jenn
Well that looks like the correct death details from what is known.
Thanks a bunch.
Sandy
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Hi
Thats sounds like the right couple they had 11 children thats nothing my granddad was 1 of 16 Bodsworth and there is a line with nearly 20 children in it.
Sarah
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Totally agree Marilyn but unless we find him going across the
water can you suggest any other way.
Think we need to take a breather and just see what else
we can verify as fact.
Sandy
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Do we know who did the original research and made the link to Piddington/Horton Thomas?
Somebody, somewhere must have found it on a death or marriage record in Australia - unless they made a wild guess.
Marilyn
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Well he did marry in Tasmania but the Tasmanian early BDM's hold very little information.
You can download the death certificate from Victoria for $17.50 Aus
it does give a lot of information ie place of birth parents how long in the colonies etc
Jenn
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Marilyn
On Reply 43 Jenn has a death for a Thomas who matches parents as being his.
Sandy
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Totally agree Jenn
I have a few they are a God send.
Wish the English records were the same.
Sandy
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These are the children born in Victoria
James Alexander 1854
Ann Simpson 1856
Thomas Richard 1858
Henry John 1860
Margaret Louisa 1862
Octavius 1864
Helen Abagail 1866
Charles Edward 1867
Clara Elizabeth 1869
George Montague 1872
Jenn
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Thanks for those Jenn.
Much appreciated.
In case you missed it Marty has a web site with quite a lot of information here
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/o/d/Marty-C-Bodsworth/
Sandy
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Hi Jenn
Thanks for all the info, especially the death certificate with parents' names. I think I'm satisfied he's the right Thomas Bodsworth to put in my tree.
Thanks to everyone else too as I've found out much more than I originally hoped for.
Diana
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I see by Marty's website he sites Mary Cotter as his source. She has an enormous amount of names in her family tree apparently not necessarily related but trees submitted by others, so hard to say just how verified the information is. I am not being critical here just saying what I feel
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi Jenn
Well we all know that we should verify by original documents as far as possible.
So seems that death certificate is essential.
Thanks for the speedy assistance as always. :)
Marilyn nothing on Alan's newspaper indexes from 1839-1845.
Sandy
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Hi All,
I have a (bad) copy of both Thomas's Death and Marriage certificates in Australia, I will try to scan it into the computer and attach it.
Marty
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Hi all,
Here is the copy of Thomas's Death certificate, it clearly states his parents as Richard and Ann and also to the right it also lists Ellen Abigail Doherty.
His occupation is listed as a gardener.
I have a better scan but it is too big to upload here.
Will upload marriage certificate soon.
Marty
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Here is the marriage certificate for Thomas and Ellen.
I forgot I had this, this copy was sent to me by a relative in Victoria, Helen Holness.
Hope it helps.
Marty
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Here is a letter from 1988 to Helen fromm the Archives of Tasmania
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Helen wrote on the back of this that it was from I.G.I.? or L.G.L.
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Thanks for those Marty. that all makes sense now
I have found the parents, Richard and Ann in the census
1841 Richard is in Great Linford, Buckinghamshire and a tollgate keeper, fits in with the death certificate
Ann is in Piddington
!851 Richard is in Paddington, Middlesex, still a tollgate keeper, birthplace Woburn, Bedfordshire. Ann is still in Piddington and indexed as Bedsworth (as all the Bodsworth in Piddington are)
1861 Both are in Marylebone, Middlesex, indexed by ancestry as Bedsworth
Their deaths are between 1861 and 1871 registerred in Marylebone
Richards baptism at Woburn is in the IGI at familysearch.org
Marilyn
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Hi Marty
You really have come up trumps! Thank you very much for all the information. I'm now convinced the Thomas Bodsworth who married Sarah Hakes is the same man that then went to Australia and married Ellen Abigail Doherty.
I've found out lots more about her life after he left too, so I'm really pleased - not bad for my very first post!!
Many thanks once again
Diana
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Thanks Marilyn and Diana,
That means what I have back to Richard and Ann is correct, after that its been guess work for me, can anybody else help here? or point me to a source? as I dont have any real information any further back than Richard and Ann.
If I can help with anything from my end please feel free to ask.
Regards
Marty
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Thats an excellent result all round.
I do so love Rootchatters, allways willing to help.
Marty do you want any marriages or deaths of the children in Australia or do you have that information to hand?
Jenn
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Wow .....
Go to bed and look what happens. ;D
Marty...... as Richard comes from Woburn I can check the PR's when I go to Leighton Buzzard this week......I cannot yet tie mine in but they are then all in the same area Woburn.
My Benjamin's father was Thomas...so far 3 options for him ..1772 Luton 1773 Woburn 1779 Tilsworth so need to dig about .
I will see what is in PR'S for details .
Tazzie
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Hi Jenn,
I would love any information you can provide as I really dont have a lot yet, I suspect the Bodsworths in Australia are quit huge. I also notice that you are researching "Hennessy", my mothers side is Hennessy and for the last 12 months I and 6 other 3rd cousins have been gathering info, I am getting it all together for an eventual book.
Have you looked at my family tree? are we researching the same Hennessy's?
Hi Tazzie,
Can't wait to see what you find, thanks.
Marty
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Marty
"my" Hennessy family is my great grandmother Ellen she was born in Ireland father Denis Hennessy mother Jane Ryan. She and her sister came to Australia to Cootamundra her brother Michael was allready there. Doesn't seem to be a tie in with your mob but who knows they did have a cousin Callaghan that is who Michael gave on his papers as allready being in Australia.
Will do what I can for your Bodsworth
kind thoughts Jenn
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Morning Everyone :)
Cus (Tazzie) as Marilyn says Richard is on the I.G.I. as being born to James and Anne
Botsworth at Woburn Born 28th Feb 1789 baptised 8th March 1789.
Also all at Woburn
Elizabeth 28th May 1787 baptised 10th Jun 1787
Martha 31st Jul 1790 baptised 22 Aug 1790
Mary 7th May 1792 baptised 10th Jun 1792
Elizabeth 05th Mar 1794 baptised 19 May 1794
Sarah 12th May 1796 baptised 07 Aug 1796
James 30 Oct 1799 baptised 24 Nov 1799
Maybe you can confirm for Marty from originals.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
I've got all those but where did James come from. Maybe it was getting late when i researching for more children.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
As I posted elsewhere.
Go to www.familysearch.org
Click on Search Records and then Advanced Search
On left hand side click International Genealogical Index (I.G.I.)
Type in Fathers name and Surname and only Mothers first name
Then select British Isles under Region.
Then select England under Country
Then select Town etc under County
This should bring all the children to the parents James and Anne.
Bedfordshire has full coverage on the I.G.I.
So will leave you to the rest.
Sandy
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Hi Marty
Just sent you an email with the information i have on the Bodsworth/Brice line. I hope it may be of some help to you. If i can help any more. Please do not hesitate to contact me and i will try and help best i can.
Sarah
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Hi Sandy
Thank you for that information. I didn't realize you could search like that. Will be helpful for future use of the site.
Sarah
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Hi Cuz..... & Sarah.....
Yep Saw them all.
Going to look through the books to check all variants...so far ...
Bottesford /Botsford/ Bodsford/ Bodsoth/ Bodworth/Bodsworth & Bosworth.
Now the ones from Chalgrave seem to show up well in the US but them seem to stick to Botsford....see here ....
http://www.botsfordfamily.org/history.cfm
The name does seem to be in this little bit of Bedfordshire from Woburn to Marston to Chalgrave to Tilsworth.
Big task but pre 1812 Leighton Buzzard have the books transcribed and I can go from the indexes and go village to village listing all variants ..some where we may get a match between them and link .
Just found a really unusual one in Tilsworth ....
Shelonith or Shelomith Botsworth bap 3 May 1807.
Tazzie
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Hi Cus
I was at the Library for over 6 hours yesterday and didn't get home untill gone 8.00p.m.
I found quite a bit of factual information for the family from Parish Records.
Whilst there I looked at An******* and there is another person with this family
under the spelling BOTSWORTH with more information.
Will get back later with information if time.
Sandy
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Morning Sandy....
Taking the boys to mums on Saturday so will be able to pick up from there.
Wow ....... which one did you go to Beds or Nothants?
There is also a tree that goes back from Richard & Ann ( Brice) through to "blank Bodsworth" b 1640 Beds . Herts Eng. His son Unknown Bodsworth who has a son William Bodsworth/ Botsworth in Woburn in 1682 .
Thanks again for checking for Woburn.
Will check in later.
Tazzie
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Hi Cuz
Northants Library. :)
Think I might have mis-lead you I meant on the Northamptonshire families. :(
The other information Botsworth/Bodsworth is in hand. :)
As to the other tree, yes that is the one I meant wish we had viewed it first. :)
One thing though there was no BURIAL for 1st Thomas Bodsworth
at Horton or Piddington born in 1811 searched up to 2nd Thomas's baptism.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Wow you have been busy. Just a suggestion i know Richard moved away a lot could he have died and be buried somewhere else could be over the border in Buckinghamshire he rorked at great linford.
Sarah
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Hi ......
Just found this in my books....
Wymersley Hundred Malitia List 1771...
Horton John Brice.......grazer's son
Piddington Jno Brice.........grazer
Thos Pearson.....lab lame (whole line crossed out)
Jms Pearson....singleman
Robt Pearson....singleman.
This lists men between 18 & 45 on 4 Nov 1771.
No Bodsworth in whole area so Richard did not leave Woburn to go to family so left to get work I suppose.
Tazzie
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Hi
Richard Bodsworth seemed to travel around a lot for work found him on various census.
1841 Tollgate keeper, Great Linford, Buckinghamshire
1851 Tollgate keeper, Paddington, London
1861 Down as Bedsworth Watchman, Marlebone, London with wife Ann.
The first Thomas could have been buried anywhere in the county.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
i know Richard moved away a lot could he have died and be buried somewhere else
For Richard's death see reply 63 by Marilyn.
I am afraid that I do not agree that Thomas of 1811 would be buried out of
Northamptonshire as other Children are baptised in Piddington in early 1800's.
It could be that the 2 Thomas's are the same as 2 baptisms for 1 child
if it was un well and not expected to recover was not unusual.
It would be to have 2 children in family with the same name though both living.
Richard didn't leave Northamptonshire until much later.
http://www.georgianindex.net/ldn_tollgates/Toll_gate.html
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
I and others presumed the first Thomas had died either at birth or at a very young age, I have found through researching my mums family (Hennessy) this was the case all too often in Australia's early years. I found that families tended to name children after their deceased siblings.
Marty
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Hi Marty
I agree entirely.
Having searched through the records for both Parishes though
there certainly is no burial.
Of course they may have gone somewhere between the years
but I did not have time to look elsewhere.
As I said previously I have found a lot of information but I am trying
to list the information for other Rootschatters here first as I am going
out in awhile and it will take a long time to type your lineage. :)
Sandy
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Okay Cuz
I am going to start with Baptisms transcripts at Woburn under all variants. Hopefully may help others coming along later also. :)
1. Feb 6 1730 Jeremiah s George Bosworth 2. Jul 9 1732 Jn s Geo Bosworth 3. Jan 7 1733 Ann d Geo Bosworth 4. July 10 1735 Susan d Geo Bosworth 5. Aug 7 1738 Jn s Geo Bosworth 6. Dec 14 1741 Mary d Geo Bosworth 7. July 7 1744 Geo s Geo Bosworth 8. Oct 7 1745 Geo s Geo Bosworth 9. Jan 18 1747 Eliz d Geo Bosworth 10. Mar 17 1753 Wm s Geo & Eliz Bosworth.
1. Nov 12 1755 Ann d Jn & Eliz Botsford 2. Born Jan 2 1758, Jan 4 1758 Eliz d Jn & Eliz Botsford, 3. Born Aug 4 1760, Sep 7 1760 Fanny d Jn & Eliz Botsford, 4. Born May 24 1763, Jun 5 1763 Jn s Jn & Eliz Botsford 5. Born July 3 1766, July 20 1766 Geo s Jn & Eliz Botsford 6. Born Jan 6 1769, Feb 5 1769 Wm s Jn & Eliz Botsford
1. Feb 15 1756 Mary d Wm & Eliz Botsford 2. Born Jun 21 1759, July 1 1759 Jn s Wm & Eliz Botsford 3. Born Aug 11 1761, Aug 23 1759 Wm s Wm & Eliz Botsford 4. Born Aug 22 1766, Sep 7 1766 James s Wm & Eliz Botsford 5. Born Dec 6 1772 Dec 19 1772 Thos s Wm & Eliz Botsworth
1. Born May 28 1787, Jun 10 1787 Eliz d James & Ann Botsworth 2. Born Feb 28 1789, Mar 8 1789 Rich s James & Ann Botsworth 3. Born Jul 31 1790, Aug 22 1790 Martha d James & Ann Botsworth 4. Born May 7 1792, Jun 10 1792 Mary d James & Ann Botsworth 5. Born Mar 5 1794, May 19 1794 Eliz d James & Ann Botsworth 6. Born May 12 1796, Aug 7 1796 Sarah d James & Ann Bothworth 7. Born Oct 30 1799, Nov 24 1799 James s James & Ann Botsworth
1. Born Jun 21 1803, Oct 23 1803 Wm s Wm & Phoebe Botsworth 2. Born Jul 23 1809, Aug 13 1809 Mary Ann d Wm & Phoebe Botsworth
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
See you've been busy again. Thank you for supplying the information. Although i had some of the information it has helped me get my Bodworths another generation back. Now i know that i was on the right track.
Thanks again
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
You are welcome.
Because we can not copy and paste had to do them that way.
Here are the marriages.
1. Feb 28 1703 Wm Bodsworth & Jane Smith 2. Oct 17 1751 Hugh Lucey & Eliz Botsford 3. Nov 10 1754 Jn Botsworth & Eliz Dewberry 4. Jan 19 1771 Jn Clarke & Mary Bodsworth By License 5. Oct 12 1779 Jn Irons of Pulloxhill & Eliz Botsworth 6. Feb 2 1784 Jn Botsworth & Ann Gorlis 7. Jan 1 1787 Jn Bosworth & Alice Odel 8. Mar 17 1787 James Bosworth & Ann Page By License 9. Dec 24 1801 Wm Reddale & Ann Bosworth
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
James Bodsworth and Ann Page Marriage. Would that be Richard Bodsworth b1789 parents. If it is they left the wedding a bit late.
Sarah
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Hi everyone
I'm still following this with interest even though it's gone beyond what I wanted to know for my own tree.
Despite two baptisms for Thomas Bodsworth I'm sure the one baptised at Horton in 1816 is the same man who married Sarah Hakes and then went to Tasmania. He was age 22 when he married Sarah in March 1839 which makes a baptism in October 1816 OK. He was 69 when he died in Australia in July 1886 so that again fits with a birth in 1816.
Maybe Richard & Ann Bodsworth were too poor in 1811 to pay for a burial. I have a friend whose grandmother grew up in Newfoundland and she remembered going to the churchyard late at night to bury dead babies in hallowed ground.
Diana
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Now for the burials.
I have tried to keep in family groups where possible.
The first set are more than likely adults.
1. Jan 17 1747 Susan d Wm Bosworth 2. Dec 3 1751 Edmund Botsford 3. Apr 18 1789 Susan Bosworth 4. Dec 2 1791 Geo Bosworth 5. Jan 5 1792 Mary Bosworth 6. Feb 22 1799 Wm Botsworth 7. Jul 17 1799 James Botsworth 8. Jun 13 1801 Jn Botsworth 9. Dec 14 1807 Ann Botsworth
1. Mar 24 1753 Jeremiah s Geo Bosworth 9. Feb 13 1747 Eliz d Geo Bosworth
Jun 3 1766 Eliz W Geo Bosworth May 16 1781 Geo Bosworth, sadler 5. Jun 10 1781 Jn s of above Geo Bosworth
1. Dec 12 1773 Ann d Jn & Eliz Botsworth, Sep 16 1781 Eliz W Jn Botsworth
1. Jul 28 1763 Mary d Wm & Eliz Botsford 2. Sep 8 1760 Jn s Wm & Eliz Botsford
5. Aug 13 1776 Thos s Wm & Eliz Botsworth
1. May 12 1789 Eliz d James & Ann Botsworth
Jan 2 1805 Name blank d Wm & Phoebe Botsworth, May 20 1806 Thos s Wm & Phoebe Botsworth
Sandy
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Hi Sarah/Diana
Sarah nothing new there then.
One of mine 2 days after the baby was born. :)
Another 16 years later than the 1st child. :)
Sandy
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Could baby Thomas have been buried back in Woburn?
Marilyn
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Hi Guys ......
See what you mean Sandy and so many repeating names all the time.
Sarah ..... the date of marriage for James & Ann ...you often find they marry close to having the first child..ok sometimes days but in a time when families had to support themselves they needed to know that there could be children .
I have one where they marry in a church in brides village and then must all troop down the road to the next village and baptise the first born.
Sandy I will look at the others on Saturday....fantastic what you have found for us today. Thanks :)
Tazzie
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Hi Sandy
Thank you for your time spent researching. My family line now moves on to Marston Mortaine in Bedfordshire now looking at the 1760's.
Thank you again. The information you have provided has been very useful.
Sarah
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Hi All
Marilyn I can not see one that matches can you. :-\
Cuz lots for you to look at. :)
Sarah I will be putting up the Northamptonshire info maybe
tomorrow or maybe later see how I feel.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
I'm in no rush. I've got plenty of information to be sifting through. Making sure the correct people go in the right line. Its not the Bodsworth's that are causing me problems now. It's the Brice's managed to get back to a certain point recorded all the information down went back to the records and can't seem to find one of them but seem to have his parents. Must off went for a break or something for this to happen spent all afternoon trying to find him and still can't. He will finally appear no doubt.
Thanks
Sarah
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I just posted a message and it has gone. :(
Will have to re-type in a minute.
Sandy
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Woburn Congregational Church
Church Meeting Octr 5 1810
Mrs Bosworth of Aspley was admitted into full communion.
Church Meeting 30 October 1835
Sarah Bosworth and others were admitted into full communion.
Woburn Chapel Burial
Jul 23 1828 Mrs Bosworth wid of Aspley
Sandy
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Hi All
Just a bit before I go out into the pouring rain. :(
Piddington Parish Church Baptism
Pr. Tabbatha Daur of Peter & Mary Pearson Dec 13 1789
Piddington Parish Church Marriage
Pg 2 No. 6 20 February 1814 By Banns
Thomas Hakes otp to Tabitha Pearson otp
with consent of no impediment alleged
Both signed their names with their marks.
Witnesses: Anne Laundon signed her name &
Amos Pearson signed his mark.
Sandy
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Parents of Tabbatha/Tabitha marriage from the N.M.I.
Piddington Parish Church
06 Feb 1785
Peter PEARSON otp to Mary PEARSON otp
Sandy
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Witnesses at Thomas & Tabitha's wedding from the same index.
Piddington Parish Church
01 Nov 1814
Amos PEARSON otp to Ann LAUNDON of Preston Deanery
Sandy
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Horton Parish Church Banns of Wedding
were published April 29, May 6 & 13
14 May 1810
Richard Bodsworth of the Parish of Horton &
Ann Brice of the Parish of Piddington
Richard signed his name Ann her mark.
Witnesses: William Brice and Sarah Pettit
Sandy
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Piddington Parish Church Baptism
Thos son of Richard & Ann Bodsworth was baptd 7 July 1811
Horton Parish Church Baptism
Pg 2. No. 16 Octr 6 1816
Thomas son of Richard & Ann Bodsworth Hackelton Shoemaker
Sandy
Edit: I checked again today ( 19th Aug) and no burial for 1st Thomas at either Church.
No Bodsworth at either village prior to Richard's marriage to Ann.
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Piddington Parish Church Marriage
Pg 5. No. 9 March 1st 1839
Thomas Bodsworth 22 Single Labourer Piddington father Richd Bodsworth Labourer to
Sarah Hakes 21 father Thos Hakes
Thomas signed his name Sarah her mark.
Witnesses: James Bodsworth signed his name and Rebecca Hakes signed her mark.
Sandy
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Only baptism found of child to Thomas and Sarah.
Piddington Parish Church Baptism
Pg. 91 No. 725 Augt 4 1839
James to Thomas & Sarah Bodsworth Piddington Labourer
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Wow - you have been busy!
Thought I'd got the wrong day for marriage of Sarah Hakes to Thomas Boddington in March 1839 so thanks for that - must have copied down the entry number!
Regarding the "consent of no impediment alleged" at the marriage of Thomas Hakes & Tabbitha Pearson 20.2.1814. I've never seen that before. Do you know what it means? Might he have been married before and some suspicion regarding wife no 1?
I found a marriage at Pattishall 20th Oct 1806 Thomas Hakes to Sarah Pell. It might explain the first two children being born before the marriage to Tabbitha. From their ages it looks as if Rebecca Hakes born c 1811 & William Hakes c 1812.
Regards,
Diana
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Hi Diana
"consent of no impediment alleged"
At my own marriage vows it was if someone objected to the marriage
let them speak up or forever hold their peace.
Guess it was the same in those days.
Sandy
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Sandy said
'Marilyn I can not see one that matches can you? '
Marilyn has lost the thread.....
But I try my best - what should I be looking for?
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Sorry Marilyn
You suggested a burial in Woburn for the Thomas 1811 that is presumed died.
Sandy
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Further details to marriage from original on Reply 15 by Marilyn
Pg. 57 No 114 After Banns
March 31st 1851
Richard Pearson (father Edward) to Sarah Bodworth (father Thomas Hakes)
Both signed their marks.
Witnesses: Sarah Robertson and James Smith
Sandy
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Hate to be a spoil-sport. :(
I have just compared the signature on the marriage certificate of
Thomas in Piddington with the one in Australia.
Nothing like it. :(
Anyone know whether it would have changed so much in several years.?
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Away from the computer for the day and you seem to have managed to provide a lot of information. I've got completely lost on the Bodsworths from Bedford as you may have noticed on the Bedfordshire message board. Can't seem to find where i went wrong but think it starts at Richard Bodsworth parents, thought i was going to smoothly for my liking.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
Just re-trace your steps then from original documents which are sure
proof and hopefully it will lead you back on track. :)
Can you input all your information in to a family tree program?
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
All the information i have gathered i have put into my family tree program. Hopefully might be of some use to me at a later date.
Sarah
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Hi again Sarah
How did you go off track?
If the 2 marriages signatures are not the same man
then we have here too.
We need to see whether there were 2 Richard Bodsworth's
marrying an Ann as her maiden name was not known on
Thomas's death certificate in Australia.
Sandy
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Here are the 2 signatures.
Can anyone confirm whether they think they are the same please.
Sandy
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Here is the Australian one.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
Not quiet sure.
Think it was when i was looking for parents and sibliings of Richard's. On the IGI record it records his parents as James Botsworth and Ann. I just took it that Ann maiden name was Page from the information you provide yesterday think this is right. Its James Bodsworths b1769 parents i think i got lost with I've got them recorded down as John Bodsworth & Rebecca Grazely. Just got to check from here backwards.
Sarah
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Hi Sandy
I don't think the signatures look the same. But can't seem to open the second one up to see for sure.
Sarah
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Hi Sandy,
They don't look the same to me. The letters are spaced differently, although if you ever get the exact same signature for a person then its probably a copy as professionals (banks etc) say that signatures should vary even if written on the same day.
One looks more like he just wrote his name rather than signed it? This could explain the difference.
Marty
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Hi Marty
Agree about the bank etc.
My own signature has changed dramatically over the years.
If we could find Thomas arriving in Australia with his age noted or
wife it would help enormously.
It did say his father Richard was a Turnpike Keeper (lives in a Toll House)
on his marriage certificate so lets hope it is him.
Sandy
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Hello Sandy
no doubt this is a dumb question but with the signatures does the writing match the rest of the signatures.
I have noticed on some of the Australian certificates the minister seems to have written out the whole cetrificate and there might be and X cause the folk could not read or write but he wrote for them?
Jenn
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Hi everyone
I don't think the signatures look at all the same either! Does that mean we're back to square one?
Diana
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HI Jenn and Diana
Jenn here are the 2 certificates with vicars writing and Thomas's signatures.
The other thing is Richard the father was noted as a Labourer in 1839 yet a toll gate keeper in 1841.
Did you not have to purchase the right to collect Tolls if so could a Labourer have done so.?
Sandy
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I don't think they are signatures of Thomas and Ellen on the 1852 marriage cert.
They look the same as the two names in the Name and Surname box,
so were probably written by a third party, possibly the officiating
clergyman.
He also described Ellen incorrectly as Ellen Abigail Dorothy, rather than
Doherty, although the "signature" which looks to be identical,
does have Doherty
David
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HI David
I am only going on what was on the original certificate posted on Reply 60.
It states their Signatures .
Australian certificates the minister seems to have written out the whole cetrificate
Maybe Jenn has the right idea.
Sandy
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I've been looking at the online trees this morning, and it will take
a lot more evidence to convince me that the earlier Beds entries on
the online trees are correct.
(see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,320241.new.html#new )
They have no original citations, and all seem to cite other trees, a recipe for disaster.
David
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I realised that Sandy, and agree that it does appear to be a copy of the original.
I just don't think that the Signatures box contains the signatures of Thomas
and Ellen - the fact that they appear identical to the Names box implies
to me that the same person completed the whole certificate
David
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Just amended my post to add that is what Jenn suggested.
Sandy
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Sorry for butting in. I'll go back to Beds now.
-
David
You weren't to my knowledge. :(
It just seem we are going round in circles without confirmation.
Everyone's ideas and help is invaluable.
Especially yours that is why I linked across.
Sorry if it seems otherwise.
Sandy
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Sandy
I don't think this thread is going round in circles. Jenn made a general observation,
which has been progressed to a specific comment on the Australian
marriage cert in question, which I think bears out Jenns experience that
the minister often completed the whole cert.
As such it's not surprising that the "signatures" differ.
David
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Hi Everyone
I went off to work last night quite down at the thought that we had two Thomases so it's a real relief to get home just now and find we're back to one again. All the writing on the Australian certificate does look the same and the two Piddington signatures are definitely by two different people. What a relief!
Diana
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Tazzie
You've doubtless got Benjamin Bottesford baptised 14 April 1799 at Tilsworth?
Parents Thomas and Mary.
The Sundon marriage is the only one I can see, and there are children of
Thomas and Mary Botsford/Botsworth baptised
1799 Tilsworth
1800-1810 Luton St Mary
1815-21 Toddington (I wonder if this is a separate couple, although I can't
see a marriage**. I base this purely on a burial at Toddington on
7 Oct 1823 of Mary Bodsworth age 31, which would make her too young to be
Mary Denton)
What was Benjamin's parish of residence on marriage?
David
** Thomas Botsford m Mary Kingham 6 Dec 1812 at Toddington, so these
can be ruled out
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Hi David ....
Yep Benjamin son of Thomas & Maryb 1799...I cannot yet pinpoint parents marriage unless the Sundon one is them. A Thomas is baptised in Tilsworth 1779 son of John & Mary at same time as a sister Elizabeth who we also have in the tree through another marriage, they double baptise another 2 children in 1782 Jacob & Isaac... so it is possible that they are John & Mary nee Isaac who marry in Toddington 1789. Forward obviously no prob. I am interested if they all link to Chalgrave Botsfords.
Tazzie
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Hi all,
Is there any concrete proof that John Botsworth and Ann are Richards parents?
Marty
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Hi Marty
I noted on Reply 85 James and Ann on the 4th block down are
a Richard's parents.
Don't know if it is concrete although what I typed is.
Maybe looking at the link here it might help also.
Reply 12.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,320241.0.html
Sandy
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I think that the combination of censuses where Richard's birthplace is given as
Woburn - reply # 63 - and the birth/baptism recorded in Woburn parish
register - reply # 85 - are as
concrete as you're likely to find.
Of course it would reinforce the concrete
if the marriage to Ann Brice in Horton, Northants said Richard of Woburn,
but I don't have that information (in fact I now see an earlier post of Sandy's gives
his parish of residence as Horton - reply # 102). I don't think this detracts
from the census evidence though, which looks pretty conclusive.
I hasten to add though that I've been looking at the Beds
angle, rather than Northants, which I leave to the experts.
David
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Hi All,
Thought this might be of interest. I do not know when it was written, must have been in the last 4-5 years as water restrictions only came in around that time.
Marty
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Hi all,
Ok, I just had dinner with dad, he told me his mother mentioned (when he was a child) that Thomas had first come to Australia via Tasmania in the Army? WITH a Major Black.
Now I don't know in what capacity although I have looked through a lot of convict lists and he is not listed so maybe he was in the military??
Any ideas?
Marty
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Hi Marty
Wonder if Sarah Barnes is still following this? She may know more. Through GenesReunited she told me there were grounds for believing Thomas Bodsworth may have been a soldier.
Diana
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I can't find Thomas Bodsworth in the National Archives under any category but I did find this:
ADM 157/440/119 More information Folios 119-123. William Bodsworth, born Bedfordshire. Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Portsmouth 1861 (when aged 20). Discharged 1863 as an Invalid. 1861-1863
There are an awful lot of men called BLACK under WO (War Office) category. I wonder if anyone knows which regiment he might have joined in Northants?
Diana
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Hi All
Yes i'm still following this with interest.
One of my contacts from Genes Reunited who is also researching the Bodsworth family tree believed Thomas was a solider. Please see reply i received.
My descent is from Thomas, your George's brother and his wife Sarah (Hakes), who was apparently abandoned when he went off to Australia (circumstances unknown, but some grounds for suspecting he was a solider) and remarried, bigamous but apparently not illegally.
Hope this is of some help.
Sarah
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Hi All
Can not say for sure this will help but maybe worth a try.
If you scroll down page it gives the Regiments that were in Australia
in the time period you wanted.
http://www.militarybadges.info/brits/category/01-overview.htm
Edit: There was Captain Black leaving Australia in 1843 on another site.
Sandy
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Marty do you have the marriage certificate from Tasmania of Thomas Bodsworth?
Just thinking if it would state an occupation for Thomas
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi Jenn,
I posted the Marriage certificate on reply #60.
He is listed as being a laborer and Abigail is listed as being a spinster.
Regards
Marty
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Hi All,
I found this
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18251027-163&div=t18251027-163&terms=bodsworth#highlight
about James Bodsworth, do you think it would be James b.15 Oct 1799 son to James and Ann?
Any thoughts?
Marty
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If he was 41 in 1825 it's unlikely he was James born 1799
David
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Thanks David, probable should get more sleep before I read this stuff.
Any ideas about who he could be?
Marty
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Hi all,
Does anybody know a Mary Haughton? http://www.kellner.eclipse.co.uk/genuki/NTH/Surnames/names1.htm
her email and address are listed on this web page and apparently she has done research on the Bodsworth family.
Marty
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Hi Marty
Yes she's one of my mum's many cousins on the Bodsworth side. Apparently she has the best knowledge on the Bodsworth line.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah,
Thats good, have you spoken to her much about the family history? I was going to send her an email asking for help.
I want to get as much info as I can for dad, he 80yo so I don't want to leave it until its too late like I did with mum.
What do you think?
Marty
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Hi Marty
I haven't talked to her at all tried to contact her through Genes Reunited at one point and i didn't hear anything back. But according to another family member i have been in contact with she knows quite a bit on the Bodsworth family and is a good person to speak to but i also know that she isn't involved as much in the family tree as she was.
I would give it a go and contact her you will be always left wondering if you didn't. It's always worth a try you never know what you might find out.
I know what you mean about leaving things to late to find things out all but one of my grand parents have passed away so can no ask them about important facts.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah,
The email I found for her doesn't exist anymore, oh well.
I found this while doing a google, I don't think it is part of my family but somebody else might be able to use it
http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/tva/census/CensusDetail.asp?FirstName=George&FamilyName=Bodsworth&FullMinor=&YoB=1828&YoI=1861&Detail=I&Source=1&SourceID=13936&MasterID=13858&CallPage=MasterDetail&CallFirstName=&CallFamilyName=&Tolerance=5&EndAction=C&Sex=M
it is from the two villages archive trust??? and is for a George Bodsworth b. (about 1828) at Buckinghamshire, Wavendon and a Esther b. (about 1830) at Bedfordshire, Salford.
Regards
Marty
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Hi All,
Here are two photo from a bunch that were just sent to me, these two are the ones I think you will be interested in.
John Bodsworth b.1860 was the son of Thomas Bodsworth and his wife Maria Ann Adlington b.1862
Marty
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http://vcp.e2bn.org/prisoners/10685-1-john-bodsworth.html
Marty
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Hi Marty
Sorry you didn't have any contact with that e-mail address. At least you can say you gave it a try. If you hadn't i think you would have been always wondering what if.
Sarah
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hi all,
I dont know if this is of any relevance but im about to marry a bodsworth,
Shaun L. bodsworth son of paul R. and marion bodsworth, Grandson of deliah and michael bodsworth.
Deliah and Michael came to australia from england when Paul was a youngster (around 5 to 10yrs of age, he is now in his late 40's) with another 7 childeren in toe.
Would love to hear of the family tree, but i think there is alot of bodsworths.
not sure if this helps, im not good with family roots.
Kristoni
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Welcome to Rootschat Kristoni. :)
Sorry nobody got back to you.
Not sure there would be a link unless from the Bedfordshire
area or Northants.
Are you able to say any earlier dates that might help find a connection.
Sandy
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Hi also to Marty.
I hope you received the 68 images that I scanned and sent to you.
It was a good job I had most of Sunday free because of the dreadful
weather to do them and re-name them all.
Just had a thunderstorm, poor hubby was trying to fit the head gasket
when the heavens opened. :) :) :)
Won't send anything else until I know your received them okay.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
Thanks so much for that stuff, I have downloaded it all ok and am still looking at it.
I showed dad a few of them last night, he was very suprised, he didnt think this stuff would have existed.
I have a few more documents I will email late tonight before I go to bed.
Marty
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Hi Marty :)
Glad they all arrived okay.
Look forward to yours.
Sandy
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Hi
have only been doing my tree for a year but after reading about the bodsworths im glad some one else is trying to sort it out! Im related to the bodsworth through a marriage of mary liddington. Not done much so far as ive moved house during the year so hopefully can start doing my tree again.
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Hi Baz
I'm a direct descendant of Thomas Bodswoth and Mary Liddington. If i can help in any way all you need to do is ask.
Sarah
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Welcome Baz to Rootschat. :)
Morning Sarah.
These families must have the most relatives related to the
Bodsworths on Rootschat.
We have Tazzie, Marty, Diana, Sarah, Bricey and yourself at the moment.
Also the William who I helped years ago from the States.
A new record !!!!!!!!!!!!!. :)
Look through the posts and you will see a lot of information that will help
with your lineage Baz and as Sarah says just ask.
Sandy
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Welcome Baz,
More than happy to help if I can.
Thanks for the email Sandy, thats great stuff.
I am going to have another poke around to see if we can find out how Thomas got to Australia, there must be a record somewhere.
Marty
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Hi Marty
Glad you got the latest stuff.
Now finding Thomas's arrival would be a bonus wouldn't it. ;D
Sandy
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HI Sandy,
It would be, I find it hard to believe he made it to Australia without any record ever being kept. With what I have seen they were pretty good in their day at keeping records.
Did somebody mention he may have been in the military or was that somebody else i'm thinking of?
Marty
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Hi Marty
I mentioned that one of his direct descendent's over here thought that he could have been in the military but no concrete evidence as yet.
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah,
I will look into that side of it through Tasmania.
Marty
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Hi All
I have just been looking through the graves I took at Piddington.
I noticed quite a few family names.
Elliott, Liddington, Smith, Savage, Hakes, Bennett, etc.
If any of you would like to put any names that you are looking for
from the village either here or by P.M. I will see if I have a photograph
and let you know what the inscription says (if I can read it :)).
Sandy
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Hi all,
Sorry I haven't been on for a while, busy with everything except this. I will try to find time to chase some information on Thomas.
Hope you are all well.
Cheers
Marty
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Hi,
found this website and topic completely by accident whilst researching my ancestors who died in WW1.
I am a Bodsworth. My dad's name was William George Bodsworth. His brother's name was Richard and he has a son called Brice. We live in northampton. Just wondered if we are related to any of you and if you could help me to trace my link to Thomas Bodsworth if there is one.
Sorry to waffle on but really fascinated by this. We lost my dad and his brother within 5 weeks of each other about 5 years ago so i have no one to ask information about.
Hope to hear from other Bodsworth's .
thanks you
Rebecca
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Hi Rebecca
Welcome to rootchat.
Would be helpful if we could have your grandad's name and date and place of birth and who he married. I have a lot of William Bodsworths in my tree but there to early to be your dad. This family is a very big one, so wouldn't be surprised if you were related to one of us, just which part of the tree you come into i don't know as yet.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
have been on internet all day trying to get info -
so far i can tell you that my grandad's name was William Bodsworth, he married Margaret Elizabeth Murton in 1921. He was born in Northampton in 1900 oct/nov/dec. I have ordered his birth certificate to get more info but would be glad if you could advise where else to look for more info.
thanks for you help
rebecca
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Hi Becky
Thank you for the information you provided.
I had a look on ancestry and can only find one William Bodsworth B1900 on the 1901 Census so hopefully this is the one we are looking for. Found him living with his grandparents and there children as well as he's mother. To be sure I've got the right person will need to know Willliam Bodsworth B 1900 parents now to be sure. But if the parents added up with the information i have got then you are connected to my Bodsworth family tree. Can you let me know when you get the information of William's birth certificate then i can hopefully help you further.
Sarah
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Hi Sarah,
the birth certificate has finally arrived!!
My grandad's name was William Bodsworth, he was born 18th September 1900 at 33 Bell Barn Street, Northampton. His dad's name was George Bodsworth (deceased) and mothers name was Elizabeth Bodsworth formerly Howe. William had a brother called Richard who died in 1917 in france - gloucester regiment.
Getting totally into looking up family tree - its so addictive!!!
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
regards
rebecca
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Hi Rebecca
As no one is about I take you have this for Richard.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/04jg/
Sandy
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:)
Hi,
yes I have. Thank you for posting though!!
-
Hi again Rebecca
Are you just wanting Sarah to reply as so many here are
related to this family or have researched it. :)
Sandy
-
:)
The more information I can get the better. Just had a look and think I can get the bodsworth link back to Mary & Thomas Bodsworth in Hardingstone. Any ideas how I can get birth certificate info from india? Oh yeah and how can i find out where ancestors are buried?
thank you for any help GRATEFULLY received.
rebecca
sorry, my head is buzzing with all this information!!! :o
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Hi Rebecca
Just sent you a personal message but as i guested you are related to my family Your great granddad George and My Great Granddad James are brothers.
Have explained more in my pm.
Sarah