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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mike175 on Friday 08 August 08 01:02 BST (UK)
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I just got the Marriage Certificate for my 2xgt/grandfather Thomas Foss, which shows his father's profession clearly as "Mariner".
Thomas is one of my most carefully researched and cross-referenced ancestors, and I'm as certain as I can be that I have the correct family, but on the census his father was equally clearly an Ag Lab, as was his grandfather . . . so my question is . . . how often are such obvious mistakes made on a marriage certificate?
I have found one other case where a bricklayer was described as a baker . . . which could be down to bad handwriting . . . but reading "ag lab" as "mariner" seems rather less likely . . . :-\
Anyone else found similar errors ???
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I can only tell you of my own personal experience as when I married within the last twenty years for the second time I thought the registrar knew my maiden name and when he asked me my fathers name I only gave his first and second names and not his surname as I wrongly assumed he knew that my fathers surname was my maiden name
My father was welsh descent and so his two first names were also surnames and on my marriage cert he is down with his middle name as his surname and when I later approached the registrar to tell him of the mistake he advised me to leave it well alone so this can be confusing for future generations
I have put a sticker on the back of the original to make it clear but anyone looking for the information without the cert in future years will have great difficulty.
The moral here is the person who supplied the original details may have mistakenly given the wrong information for the record for whatever reason.
Edna
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Hi there
I wouldn't discount the possibility that the marriage certificate is actually correct! One of my ancestors was always recorded as an ag lab in the Census returns, but on his marriage he described himself as a sailor. This is entirely plausible because several members of his family are known to have worked on the local fishing boats at certain times of year. Perhaps it's just a question of seasonal employment?
Dave
PS: I expect you'll tell me now that Thomas's father lived 150 miles inland ;D
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Hi Dave,
Actually he lived right on the south coast at Beaulieu, so it is certainly possible, although 3 consecutive censuses list him as Ag Lab, and he was never absent at sea on census night.
Certainly something new to think about though . . . :-\
Edna, you may be right . . . could it be that he was ashamed of his father's lowly status perhaps, and changed his occupation?
Thomas himself was a shipwright, possibly apprenticed to his maternal uncle in the early days, and seems to have been quite "upwardly mobile" ::)
Mike.
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Hi all,
Can you tell me what Ag Lab is. Is it 'argriculture labourer'
Linda.
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Have a look at the following site from "GenDocs"
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:z_iEa5bgeJsJ:homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/abbrcen.html+ag+lab+in+the+navy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au
It may help you.
Reg.
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One of mine was a mariner when he married and on his children's birth and marriage certs but on the census he was a sugar boiler. His name was also spelt incorrectly Hillmand instead of Hillman and his place of birth does not exist. After his first wife's death things went back to normal so I concluded his wife had given the information and had a speech impediment. She also thought that mariner was better than sugar boiler.
Sylviaann
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Hi All
Edna if you feel strongly enough about it you can write to the
Register General Office and ask for a correction to the certificate.
I did it on one of my son's and my sister had her father's name put on
her marriage certfiicate as it was not put on at the time years later.
All we had to do was show our original certificates to prove the errors.
Sandy
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On a death certificate of one of my ancestors he is described as an organ maker!
He was actually an auger maker - something very different!!!
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. . . but reading "ag lab" as "mariner" seems rather less likely . . . :-\
Why would whoever filled in the register have 'read' ag. lab. for mariner?
Wouldn't they just have written what they were told?
Perhaps it's just a question of seasonal employment?
I'd have thought that was a strong possibility.
Jennifer
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The Civil Registration System is "Informant Driven" That is the information on birth , marriage and death certificates (apart from the cause of death) was supplied by an informant and was assumed to be correct. For marriages the priest or registrar will put what he has been told for the "Rank or Profession" of the respective fathers.
However anyone who wilfully made or caused to be made, for the Purpose of being inserted in any Register of Birth, Death, or Marriage, any false Statement touching any of the Particulars required to be known and registered, was subject to the same Pains and Penalties as if they were guilty of Perjury.
For example at the Cardiff Assizes 9th November 1915 two people found guilty of making false statements for insertion in a Marriage Register and were sentenced to two months and eight months imprisonment respectively.
Stan
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. . . but reading "ag lab" as "mariner" seems rather less likely . . . :-\
Why would whoever filled in the register have 'read' ag. lab. for mariner?
Wouldn't they just have written what they were told?
ooops! :-[
It was rather late last night when I wrote that . . . getting confused between transcriptions and original entries.
But it would be equally unlikely to "hear" Ag Lab as Mariner. Maybe he was at sea in his younger days pre-1841 . . . then became an Ag Lab later. I'm sure no ancestor of mine would wilfully make a false statement, either in the census or on a marrige certificate! :o :o
Mike.
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Leaving aside variations in the details that the parties gave to the person performing the ceremony, errors on marriage certificates are quite common. If it is a church marriage (and most were until well into the 20th century), the difference is often between the original entries in the the church registers (two were made at the time of the marriage) and the copy that was sent to the GRO at the end of the quarter (the Quarterly Returns).
Some members of the clergy were simply not very good at making accurate copies, so it is always a good idea to look at the church register entry for a marriage when you have obtained a certificate through the GRO. Sometime the differences are minor, and don't make any significant difference - middle initial instead of middle name, for example. Sometimes it is much worse, such as a completely wrong name for one of the parties or one of the fathers. It is becoming easier to spot these with the growth of the wonderful UKBMD local projects, and I suspect that there may be even more than we once thought.
Mean_genie
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One of my ancestors is down on a marriage certificate as John Carroll. His name was Patrick.
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Thank you seahall I am considering your option
Edna
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I have an ancestor recorded as Hannah Broad - marrying Sidney (sometimes Sydney) in 1835 at St Mary's Chuch Stockport - I'm as certain as I can be that it is Hannah 'Broadhurst' .