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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: Walter 63 on Tuesday 05 August 08 20:44 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
Having been a keen student of the WW2 RAF since my teens, I got myself into some REAL research about 5 years ago now when I learned that a Bristol Blenheim bomber (serial T2254 of 13 Sqdn) had actually crashed near my hometown of Aartselaar (South of Antwerp) on 26.06.1942. A visit to the crew's graves left a deep impression on me and made me determined to find out as much as I possibly could about these three young men and their aircraft. They were Flying Officer Peter H. Looker RAF, pilot, Flight Sergeant William "Bill" G. O'Neill RNZAF, observer and Sgt Gordon Cox RAFVR, wireless operator/air gunner.
My research has had some amazing results so far and I am now corresponding with nieces of both Flt/Sgt O'Neill and Sgt Cox!
I would very much like to find any relatives of F/O Peter Looker as well of course but have had no success so far. I checked with various "official instances" but with no results. So when I came accross Rootschat whilst browsing the web a few days ago I noticed there's a lot of family history knowledge about and thought of giving it a try!
I did manage to collate a bit of information on F/O Looker from the various letters exchanged between the Looker, O’Neill and Cox families after their sons’ deaths and found some details on the internet as well :
- Peter Huxly Looker, born 1920, birth registered in the district of Kingston in the first quarter of that year.
- father: Charles Cecil Looker, born 1887, birth registered in the district of Thanet in the third quarter of that year. Died November 1947, death registered in the district of Pancras.
- mother: Elsie Henson, born ?, married Charles Cecil Looker in March 1913, marriage registered in the district of Pancras. Date of death unknown but I understand she did not survive her husband for many years.
When Peter was killed in action his parents resided at the Ardmay Hotel in Surbiton – apparently they were staying there to be close to their beloved and only child, 13 Sqdn was stationed at Odiham at that time. After her husband’s death, Mrs Looker took a two room flat at “Kambara”, 10 Avenue Elmers in Surbiton (I have a copy of a letter she wrote from that address to Flt/Sgt O’Neill’s mother dated 14.02.1948). From that same letter I understand she left the hotel because of the cost and also that she had a widowed sister with whom she spent a lot of time, no name given though.
I wrote a letter to the present occupant of that address and actually got a reply! The gentleman in question kindly wrote to me that the present 10 Avenue Elmers is not the residence that Mrs Looker resided at, that house having long since being demolished, no further info available though.
That is about all I have been able to find until now and so I was hoping that any Rootschatter out there might be able to help me a bit further in one way or other in order to find possibly still living relatives of Peter Looker. Mr and Mrs Looker would have received Peter’s Log Book from the Air Ministry, in memory of their son, and I am sure they would never have parted with this so there is a slight chance that this has been passed on into the family.
The attached photo shows the three airmen together, left to right Bill O'Neill, Peter Looker, Gordon Cox. Bill was 21, Peter & Gordon where 22 when they died...
Any help given will be most appreciated. Anyone wanting the results of my research so far in detail, feel free to contact me.
Thanks in advance & best regards from Aartselaar,
Walter
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Hi Walter - and a very warm welcome to Rootschat!
If Peter was an only child, then I guess we are looking for cousins.
His father, Charles, had an older sister called Ellis. She married a William Lloyd in 1918.
1891 Census of Ramsgate (St Lawrence) Kent
RG 12/732 folio 143 page 5
2 Twin Villas
William C Looker, head, 51, brick manfacturer, Kingston Surrey
Mary M., wife, 34, Kensington London
Ellis M., daur, 7, scholar, New Malden Surrey
Charles C., son, 3, Ramsgate Kent
1901 Census of Guildford (Stoke Within) Surrey
RG 13/603 folio page 10
68 Woodbridge Road
William C Looker, head, 61, living on own means, Norbiton Surrey
Mary, wife, 44, Kensington London
Ellis, daur, 17, New Malden Surrey
Charles C., son, 13, Ramsgate Kent
Birth Registration:
Ellis Looker
June qtr 1883 Kingston vol 2a p 318
Marriage Registration:
William E Lloyd & Ellis M Looker
March qtr 1918 Kingston vol 2a p 931
So...bearing in mind that Ellis was in her mid-thirties when she married, I wonder if they had any children?
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Hello Walter and welcome to Rootschat.
Greetings to Aartselaar. My last Belgian ancestor left nearby Kontich to go off to the Californian gold rush.
Fancy leaving the land of wonderful beer and chocolate. Madness!!
I have followed you through and see you have made the right specialist connections with The Blenheim Society and the RAF Commands forum.
Have done a Times Archive search which gives a death entry for Peter's father which gives the detail of death on 18 Nov 1947 at Surbiton. Peter and his loss was mentioned and donations to The RAF Benevolent Fund are suggested.
Charles Looker was director and manager of Crookes Laboratories Ltd.
An 'In Memoriam to Charles (and mentioning Peter) appeared several times, the last being in 1955.
An 'In Memoriam to Peter last appeared in 1959.
A search for Elsie brought no results.
Nice back up family info from Dave Francis.
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Hi Dave & Flakdodger!
Many thanks for the warm welcome and for the most helpful info given.
Dave, can I just ask, the placename given in the census info, behind the person's age, would that be the person's place of birth? For William Looker it changes from Kingston Surrey to Norbiton Surrey though, whereas for Mary, Ellis & Charles the places remain unchanged.
Flakdodger (do I rightly suspect an aviation interest?) - thanks for the tip re the Times Archive, new to me and I'll be registering right away! As an In Memoriam for Peter last appeared in 1959, I suppose his mother may have been still alive then.
Cheers,
Walter
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Hello Walter,
I am a Dave also (just to confuse you!). Oh yes...a lifetime of aeroplanes and aviation literature.
For us the UK, we have access to The Times Archive by membership of our local public library. If you have problems signing up then send me a PM and I'll do any look ups for you.
The link that shows in my browser is http://infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/infomark/0/1/1/purl=rc6_TTDA?sw_aep=esusslib
I agree that 1959 is a likely guide to Elsie still being alive.
Just in case (the other) Dave does not pick up the response, yes, the place name after the census age is the place of birth.
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Walter,
looking again at your posts, I now see your confusion about Kingston and Norbiton.
Norbiton is an area of Kingston, so on the 1901 Census, William was being a little more specific.
In addition, Kingston would be the Registration for any Norbiton births.
May I please take you on another English geography brief?
When Peter was killed in action his parents resided at the Ardmay Hotel in Surbiton – apparently they were staying there to be close to their beloved and only child, 13 Sqdn was stationed at Odiham at that time.
There is no particular geographical link between Surbiton and Odiham.
Hope this helps.
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Hi again Flakdodger!
Thanks for your offer of help re the Times Archive but I did manage to register alright. A quick search actually found me an in memoriam to Charles Looker & Peter in 1960! So Elsie Looker may have lived much longer than I thought.
You're quite right about Surbiton being nowhere near Odiham of course, can't remember where I picked up the "to be near their son" part. Could Peter's parents actually have lived at the Ardmay Hotel on a permanent basis? In the last letter from Elsie Looker to the O'Neill family she mentions her husband's passing away and that she took a small flat because of the hotel becoming too expensive. If they'd had a house somewhere she obviously could have moved there... I suppose. Perhaps some people did live in hotels on a permanent basis in those days.
Thanks again Dave,
Cheers,
Walter
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http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/
If you search for 10 Avenue Elmers here you can find some persons connected with that address. There was a Frank Donald Wagner there around 1941, and a couple of entries in the 1960s - Priscilla Bridget Jane Johnson (spinster, renouncing surname of Lucas) - and Miss Frances Amelia Cooke (died in 1969).
She certainly didn't move far! The Ardmay Hotel in Surbiton was at 6 Avenue Elmers.
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Many thanks for that link Jorose, and for situating the Ardmay Hotel!
Cheers,
Walter
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Walter,
Your post is fascinating, and could not have come at a better time!!! I am a current serving member of XIII Sqn and am currently researching this, and another crash on the same day (Blenheim Z6084). We are intending to visit the graves of our fallen predecessors from these crashes during Sep. I know that it is a particularly cheeky request, but could you send any information you have to me? Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses, please use the PM system to send information securely. Thanks
Thank you so much
Lozza
XIII Sqn, RAF Marham.
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Hello Lozza!
I couldn't believe my eyes when I just read your post! Keep an eye on your incoming mail!
Cheers,
Walter
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Hi all,
Bit of an update - from The Times online archive (ta for the tip Flakdodger!) I learned that Mrs Looker published an in memoriam to Peter for the last time in 1963, meaning she would still be living in that year. It was rather moving to read that in these in memoriams she also gave thought to Peter's crewmates Bill and Tich, which is very much appreciated by the latters' nieces.
I in meantime obtained a copy of Charles and Elsie Looker's marriage certificate which taught me a bit more about Elsie.
She was born in 1890 in Kettering, Northampshire, daughter of Henry Frederick Henson, residence at the time of marriage was 27 William Street, Kettering.
As I know Elsie had a widowed sister she was still seeing in 1948, would any one Rootschatter with access to Census records be able to see what her sister's name would be, when she was born etc? That sister may have had children, ie cousins to Peter...
Many thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Walter
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1901 Census of Kettering, Northants
RG 13/1448 folio 179 page 16
29 Eskdail Street
Henry F Henson, head, 55, builder
Anne, wife. 57
Arthur, son, 24, bricklayer
Edith, daur, 21
Ella, daur, 14
Elsie, daur, 11
Ernest Rendal, nephew, 14
All recorded as born in Kettering
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Brilliant, thank you so much Dave! This means that next to an aunt on his father's side, Peter also had three aunts and an uncle on his mother's side so he's bound to have had some cousins. Off to start a thread on the Northants page now! By the way, are there no census reports after the 1901 one?
Thanks again,
Walter
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Hi Walter
Glad to help!
Next Census is 1911, but that's not available for a couple of years yet.
Dave
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Walter,
following Dave Francis's Census info, you might like to develop your knowledge of sisters Edith and Ella by playing around with http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl this allows you to search births marriages and deaths. Coverage drops in the 1920s ~ 1930s, but this is the result of volunteer input. Applause for their effort so far.
I had a quick recce and found a marriage for both sisters... and children.
If you have any difficulties, please do PM me.
Regards
Dave
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Many thanks Dave, will definitely give that one a try!
Cheers,
Walter
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Hi Walter,
Just a thought. I see that the father was a director and manager of Crookes Laboratories. I wonder whether this might be the Crookes that used to and maybe still do produce things like vitamin pills. Now, if father was a director, it is possible that he had shares in the company or received some sort of pension. His wife may have been eligible to receive some sort of pension or had some shares in that company. If that is the case and Crookes is till going, then it may be that the company records would hold some information if shares had been left to a niece or nephew maybe.
The other source of information would be the wills of the mother and father. If you have the dates of death then copies of these will can be ordered from the Principal Probate Registry at York. Alternatively someone may be able to go and look at the probate calendars which give the details of to whom probate was granted and this might be a relative.
Best of luck with your searches,
Ann
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Many thanks for that Ann,
That might be a lead worth following in case the other ones lead to no result.
Found someone on GenesReunited in meantime who has the Hensons in his family tree so I contacted the gentleman and am now looking forward to what info he may have... to be continued.
Best regards,
Walter
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Hi Lozza, I am new to this chat thing, so this may not be the best way of trying to contact you...
The Blenhiem aircraft you are trying to find information about was I believe piloted by my uncle Peter George Frith, I know very little about him apart from where he is buried in Houwaart in Belgium with the rest of the crew.... Sgt Henry Herbert William Vinter, Sgt Robert Tenant Plant, and two others. The plane was shot down by a German Nightfighter piloted by Oblt Eckart-Wilhelm Von Bonin 6./NJG1 and crash at 01:28, near the village of Houwaart. This chap died in 1992 of natural causes, but has a Portuguese website with info about him
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/ases/bonin_eckart.htm
I have been to the cemetery and it is well looked after at the back of the church.
This is more or less everything I know about it.
Yours J.Frith (shrinkwrap)
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Hi,
If you go the the general message board at:
www.rafcommands.com
You may well find that one of the researchers that use that board can give you more information. There are a couple of Belgian researchers that use that board whomay well have additional information that would be of interest.
Regards,
Ann
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Hello All,
Seeing that this thread enjoyed such a large readership I thought it was time for an update.
Well, thanks to the many tips and the assistance given on this forum I found out that Peter's aunt Ella who also lived in Surrey had an only son David, IE a cousin to Peter. Thanks to David's death certificate I managed to trace his still living daughter. You can imagine how excited I was! Sadly the lady in question did not show any interest in the story :( and all I found out was that Peter's logbook did not end up with her family.
Peter's mother Elsie came from a large family however so there's more cousins to try and trace but I need to go to the Northamptonshire page for that.
Thanks again to you all!
Best regards,
Walter