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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 05 August 08 13:47 BST (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and it's CathayB's second chance...........which promises to be an interesting one. I've no doubt it will delve into Romany and Traveller history again, which makes it one not to miss.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
Barbara
OK............there's been a bit of a mix up.........totally my fault and I apologise.
Here's Cathay's knew information.
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ucks.tephra told me i was going be next week and i was going send her new details cause i have finished old golbys/birch back to 1800 now.can i please change my mind and ask can we do instead william penfold who is in kent 1st and then in surry with his wife and child alice.his child alice b.1874surry.william married catherine gillam1873. i do know william was in kent earlier on and his penfold family have a lot to do with killicks.sorry theres not a lot of info but i would love to teir these penfolds with the london or devon penfolds or gess family in some way.i am desperate to also find moses penfold who married a collinson girl back pre 1841.see what you can make osf this.
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маркировка книги ;D
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Yeeeeeee gawds Toni......are you sitting there fingers poised just waiting for me to post ?? ;D ;D ;D
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ucks.tephra told me i was going be next week and i was going send her new details cause i have finished old golbys/birch back to 1800 now.can i please change my mind and ask can we do instead william penfold who is in kent 1st and then in surry with his wife and child alice.his child alice b.1874surry.william married catherine gillam1873. i do know william was in kent earlier on and his penfold family have a lot to do with killicks.sorry theres not a lot of info but i would love to teir these penfolds with the london or devon penfolds or gess family in some way.i am desperate to also find moses penfold who married a collinson girl back pre 1841.see what you can make osf this.
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thanks tephra.i will now try and dig out some more info on these.cathayb
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edward killick who connects with this family was born 1822 in kent.he was later known as a king of the gypsies.
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Cathay,
what dates do you have for Moses?
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Hellooo peeps, back later.... ;D
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3 Moses Penfolds in the 1841....One born in 1801 Berkshire,another one in Berkshire 1831,and one in Sussex born 1831..
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,and one in Sussex born 1831..
doesnt he connect to Debs Penfolds they went from Hampshire to Dorset to Devon / Cornwall etc.
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Lots of Kent gypsies, including some PENFOLDS (but no Moses) on this site
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gypsy/gypsy.htm
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i hope they connect to debs penfolds cause debs penfolds and mine are the same.i am hoping moses penfold might be a realtive of john penfold who married harriet james in berkshire and then they came to devon after.because this has been sprung on me today a week early i need to look up the bits i have got and i will post them as soon as i find them.i have emailed all the other interested parties in this communal brick wall!they should be on here soon i hope.debsusa has gone to the beach for a few days!!cathayb
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the 1801 born berkshire moses looks promising.i cant find him in a cencus though.
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hi guys
Wish I could help ...but off for a few days at the beach ...will pop in if I can
good luck
deb
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hi
Emily Alice was b sept q 1874, Reigate Surrey vol 2a p 154
marriage;
William penfold = Catherine Gilliam sept q 1873 reigate Surrey
vol 2a p 239
seems like they had more children ..as per 1881 census... they are also living close to a Killick family
RG11/800 fol 95 p 11 and 12
deb :)
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i think from memory Moses Penfold was bp.
Steyning (or St Nicholas Brighton)
i think again from memory he was on IGI
yes thats the lot i was taliking about John Pinfold [sic] who m. Harriett James
modified my memory was playing tricks on me
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Moses Penfold 21 Sept 1817 Horsham s/o Edward & Hannah Penfold
C070641
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Moses Penfold 21 Sept 1817 Horsham s/o Edward & Hannah Penfold
C070641
he also had these siblings:~
STEPHEN PENFOLD -: 31 DEC 1815 Horsham,
HARRIETT PENFOLD - 30 SEP 1821
WILLIAM PENFOLD - 10 OCT 1813
ABEL PENFOLD - : 14 DEC 1823
DEBORAH PENFOLD - : 13 NOV 1825
ELIZA PENFOLD - : 21 NOV 1819
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it turns out alice daughter of william and catherine was acctually emily alice!!she married jesse killick b.1871he was born epsom surry.
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edward killick was born in sussex he married cinnementa arrament!!!they had two sons edward b.1856 and amos 1853 b. both brighton.amos i know had a son called jack.
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John Pinfold [sic] 1089 Warminster wilts m. Harriett James b.1814 Kingsclere berks
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Wiliam in 1861?
RG9/443 Folio 123 Page 9
Walton on the Hill, Surrey
William Penfold widower 32 Bricklayer Banstead
William 10 Banstead
George 9 Walton on the Hill
Elizabeth 7 Walton on the Hill
1851 HO107/1599 Folio 82 Page 2
Walton on the Hill, Surrey
William Letts 51 Carpenter Surrey Coulsden
Jane 51 Surrey Leigh
Frederick 22 Carpenter Walton on the Hill
Mary 14 "
Martha 12 "
Emma 10 "
Joseph 6 "
Jane Berry 3 (no relationship to head noted) Middlesex Chelsea?
William Penfold son in law 22 Labourer Banstead
Ann Penfold dau 24 Walton on the Hill
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Hi
Moses Penfolds Parents
Marriage 4 June 1811 Horsham (submitted Entry :()
Edward Penfold
Hannah Potter
Claire :)
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William seniors parents seem to be Elija(h) and Sophia (transcribed Eliza on 1841 census) HO107/1070/1 Folio 28 Page 17 Banstead Surrey
Siblings - Thomas 15 Ann 15 Peter 10 Jane? 9 Sophia 4 and Harriet 9mo
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right i have found my old notes.but this is all i have no details!!!mose penfold b.1829 married elizabeth collinson in 1849 in battersea.moses died in 1889.witnesses at the wedding were frances penfold and rosanna penfold. they had a son robert penfold who married mary ann williams and they had a son who married amy ball. no dates i am afraid.oh then they had a son robert william penfold who married charity cooper who is something to do with the windsor coopers.her dad was alfred. i have just made odd notes on all these to research as it happens now. christopher penfold who was born in somerset married patience gess and they ended up in battersea in 1891.i know they all tie together somehow but that is the question.cathayb
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Robert Williams Penfold m. Charity Cooper June 1908 Edmonton 3a 923
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Robert's marriage? a bit late though if his son married in 1908 :-\
Robert Penfold June 1894 Wandsworth 1d 776
Brides - Mary Ann Williams or Edith Payne
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Is this "Amy"??
Alathiah Ball March 1915 Edmonton 3a 796
Groom - Charles Penfold
In 1901, theres a son "Charlie" -
Gurlings Yard, Battersea
Robert Penfold 36 Hawker Kilburn
Mary 33 Portsdown Hill Hants
Phoebe 14 All children born Battersea
Robt 12
Ada 10
Charlie 8
Henry 6
Moses 3
Mary Ann 1
Neighbours are Williams families, also Hawkers, and a James Penfold (40) + family and a Christopher Penfold (50) + wife Patience and children
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just got pop out to the shops back in about hour.sooner if i cancathayb
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i wonder if it was a double wedding?amy and athelia ball and charles and robert.dont worry about late marriage for roberts perants.that often happened(married after the kids were born)if you find amy and athelia are sisters look for an eliza/elizabeth/liely she married alfie kefford in london.somehwere near the old school yard tottenham owned by emma taylor/smith/kefford.emma is also related to the windsor coopers.she has a strong kent connection aswell.
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Theres an Alfred E Kefford marrying a Lizette Frampton December 1915 Pancras 1b 265 :-\
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um i dont know about that one.old joseph kefford married emma taylor who owned totten old school yard and she already had kids with edward smith dont know wherther they married or not,emma and and joe had a son joe kefford 1900 b. who married liely ball.they had a load of kids including a alfie born 1938 who married a nichols and they had an alfie who married a tammy smith.old joe was born 1850 and his dad was also called joe and was sent to tasmania as a convict.we have never found details of him either. can anyone find moses penfold back in 1829 born yet?married elizabeth collinson.
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This is the Lilley Ball marriage then -
Joseph Kefford Dec 1919 Brentford 3a 447
Bride - "Lilliey" E Ball
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yes thats it.thanks.do we know who lilley balls family and sblings were?
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and -
Joseph Kefford Sept 1898 Islington 1b 826
Brides - Emma Smith or Mary Ann E Best
There are a few Lilian E Balls b. Middlesex, so without the marriage cert, I wouldn't know how to find the right one :-\
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i am still wondering about moses penfold b.1829.i dont think we have found him yet?unless hes one baptised in 1831?i have found that his son was born(robert)in middlesex and he did marry mary ann(elizabeth)in 1894 battersea london. moses had aother son frederick who was known as bonnie b.1869 and he married ada corolina williams born middlesesx in 1873.they married battersea 1892.i would really like to see if we can find a connection between mose 1829 and john penfold 1809/10.john was born in wiltshire but i dont know where moses was born.mose married elizabeth collinson in the parish church barnes in surry in 1849
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it was emma smith joe kefford married but we dont know if she did marry smith(edward or not)his perants were eliza blackwell and anthony smith!!!!!emma was a grand daughter of sarah taylor who died with her son and grandson in the hartlake disaster in kent in 1852/53 i cant remeber which year.sorry to keep harping back to kent but i really believe the kent penfolds,the london penfolds and the devon penfolds will somhow connect somewhere
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The one born 1831 seems the closest match :-\
Do you have this?
1901 RG13/1562 Folio 86 Page 31
38 Livingstone Rd, Stratford, West Ham, Essex
Emma S Kefford widow 50 Provision Shop Keeper Brentford Middlesex
John Smith son in law mar 30 Waterside Labourer
Emma L Smith granddau 6 Bromley by Bow
Wouldn't Emma have married as Taylor if she never married Smith? :-\
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lets hope that someone who comes on this evening might have the marriage cert for lilley and joe kefford.
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no i havent got that one i dont think.was she widowed very soon after joejnr was born then?john smith son in law with i suppose his daughter emma?i know she had rosie smith married a chap called manning and jane who married gorge cooper and annie and 2 more who i forget the names of but i think they were boysoh and i think annie married a bentley.
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we have often wondered why she married as smith and not taylor but she did marry as smith.we think it might be to keep up appearances and make peopkle think her 5 smith kids were legitamate!we dont know she never married smith but we can find no record of his death or marriage to her.cause its smiths we fight shy abit.theres so many of them
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This must be Rose's marriage in 1916 -
Rose Smith June 1916 Edmonton 3a 1264
A "Joseph Manning" is on the same page
and Annie's?
Annie Smith Dec 1914 Edmonton 3a 1223
Grooms - Joseph Bentley or Henry T W Wallis
and Jane's?
Jane Smith Sept 1905 Brentford 3a 387
Grooms - George Cooper or Arthur Ardron
Trying to trace them on the censuses by guessing their locations/ages from when and where they married, not having much luck though :-\
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At last! Who's the other Emma Kefford in 1901 then that I found earlier? :-\
Joe Kefford 25 Traveller and Hawker Hertford
Emma 20 Staines
Joe 8mo Tottenham
Edward Smith relative 30 Abingdon
Janie Smith relative 25 Putney
Albert Smith relative 20 Kingston
Rosey Smith 15 relative Hounslow
Annie Smith 12 relative Willesden
Caravan Brook Street, Tottenham
RG13/1248 Folio 72 Page 78
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Hi,
Are you looking for these two?
Marriages:
Joseph Kefford Dec 1919 Brentford 3a 447
bride: Lilley E Ball
Found on FreeBMD
Nanny Jan
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lilley balls father was william ball and her mother was eliza(known as betty)cooper and her perants were vanslow cooper and amy smith.amy was born in kent.the coopers here of course are part of the windsor coopersKENT.you know the royal ratcatcher matthias cooper!dont start looking at their tree i have that one.i would like to concentrate on the penfolds kent/london/devon and now maybe the balls if we can find amy ball and athelia ball if they were related to lilley and they of course married penfolds.
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i got two william and elizas on the same page!!!1901 kent RG13 pce 709 folio 41 page 14. what do you think
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can we look for rosie smith birth.emma taylor/smith/keffords daughter.her dad was edward smith.i cant find a birth for her anywhere.would love to get her birth cert.she married joe manning.gen on her further back in this thread.cathayb
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>:( Not one email to notify and page 4 already........... Grrrrr.
Reading back soon... :D
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hi lesanne.glad you joined us.i am surprised its gone so fast already.we didnt start til lunch time.just to update you and others joining tonight i am looking to connect the kent/london penfolds with the devon ones.i would really like some info on moses penfold married elizabeth collinson,moses b.approx1827. then i would like to tie?athelia and amy and lilley ball together somewhere?sisters or cousins.i would love to find a birth date to order cert for rosie smith daughter of emma taylor/smith/kefford. i wouldnt mind finding out why joseph kefford the very very old man was sent to aussie as a convict!i know this bit here seems bitty but i know it ties together in places.its sorta bringing all the odds and ends in to question that will eventually make the whole picture.hope this explains a bit.cathayb
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just to surmise what we have already and what i already knew. the christopher penfold from somerset married patience gess and they ended up in 1891 cencus in battersea with the penfolds who came down from moses penfold and elizabeth collinson.in the old school yard at tottenham we find at various times smiths(to do with emma taylor)keffords, and penfolds from the moses line again.keffords have married into balls and the balls they married into had married into the windsor coopers line. george cooper who married janie smith emma daughter and eliza(betty)who married joseph kefford were brother and sister.can you see where i am coming from?
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so your Moses was born circa 1827 persumably you already have his :~
MOSES PINFOLD
Christening: 24 AUG 1828 Tilehurst, Berkshire,
Father: MOSES PINFOLD
Mother: JANE
C021803
and siblings
JOSEPH PINFOLD - 10 JUL 1831 Tilehurst, Berkshire, England
GEORGE PINFOLD - 25 MAY 1823
CAROLINE PINFOLD - : 09 JUN 1833
SARAH PINFOLD - : 27 MAR 1826
ALFRED PINFOLD - : 14 JUL 1839
EMMA PINFOLD -: 21 AUG 1836
FANNY PINFOLD - : 09 SEP 1821
ELIZA PINFOLD -
: 25 MAY 1824
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no i didnt have that.thanks alot.thats part of my brickwall coming down.someone had told me when he was born but i had nothing else to go on except that he married elizabeth collinson.thanks so much.i havent been able to find him in any cencuses but now i can look for his siblings in the cencus and maybe get an idea what they were up too.
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right got him in 1841 berkshire with the family.hes got younger!!!HO107 pce 35 folio 11 page 16 cont on 17 moses penfold that is
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they didnt travel alot the parents that is either that or they returned to Tilehurst to register thier children,?and quite often with travellers they had a whole lot bp. in one go so some were like 9 when registered whlst others were babies and some could be even older, Moses b. 1828 Tilehurst hisparents were there from 1821 - 1839 almost 20 years
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i am having trouble at the moment finding him later than 1841 but i know he married in 1849 in the parish church at barnes surrey and died in 1889 in acton middlesex.i only have 2 kids for him robert and frederick.i am sure he must have had more?
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??? Still not getting mail notify's.....
Anyways.......Thought I'd found Athelia with Adeliza Alice Maud BALL... had a look at the orignal scan.......... ??? where the 'eck did they get that name from... must of spilt coffee over it and took a guess.... :o Dec 1893 St geo H sq 1A *
Lilley E married Joseph Kefford 3a 447 Brentford Dec 1919
An Amy Ball married Charles S Ball Southampton Sept 1921 2c 163
Poplar 1c 624 1905 on same page.
Emily Ball
William Richard Kefford
Ocean Phillips has this been before......... or de ja vu ;D
George Dickin
George Newman
Had a look for Transportation of Convicts need a thereabouts date and was it Aus . Nz or Tasmania? Nothing in the old bailey
Have you a link to the Smith / Williams etc in Wycombe. As there are lots in Buckinghamshire.
Lesanne.
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Re: CathayB's Scavenger Hunt......Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #107 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 19:32 GMT (UK) »
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Hi Deb
Robert hughes mum with penfolds wouldnt suprize me as his daughter Ocean married a penfold and we all know how they like to keep within there family groups lol
Matilda
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Re: Matilda1973 Scavenger Hunt - Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #273 on: Friday 20 June 08 15:43 BST (UK) »
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Quote from: cathayb on Friday 20 June 08 15:30 BST (UK)
henry penfold being our gt gt uncle and also our gt.gt.grandad!!!teo of our lines meet here!!!cathay
Thomas penfold who married Soffia Orchard ...is the brother of Henry Penfold who married Ocean .....
Soffia Orchard is also part of the Scarrott family ...Blimey ...!!!!!!
deb
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From previous threads. 8) Lesanne of the De ja vu.....
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i gotta try and answer this.i think i have lost the plot somewhere!!!convict joseph kefford know idea of dates but i imagine he was born 1840s to 50s but could be completly wrong.it was tasmania he was sent so i am told.but there are keffords and smiths in aussie now.trouble is i dont know where at the moment.one is called old granny kefford and is supposed to be quite well known. looking at the past post of mar this year.i didnt know robert hughes mum was with the penfolds.i will have to take a look. emily ball to william richard kefford.thats a new one on me.i wonder who he is and whether he is one of joes brothers. i think maybe we need to start looking for them in the cencuses.smith/williams in wycombe?i dont know.i will go look. i would rather like smith/taylor or smith blackwell in any area.
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ocean phillips nothing to do with us.ours was ocean penfold nee hughs.we know all about her. the last scavenger hunts were penfolds in devon and up.these are penfolds in kent/london/surry. hoping the two lines meet somewhere.hope your getting link emails now?
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i am sorry i have to go to bed now.i am so tired.i dont know where my friends are that are doing this particular line of the tree.maybe they have all gone out today/night.hope they are here tomorrow cause they proberly have bits they can add. my smiths all seem to be around kent to london area. the only two williams i have got are woman that married mary ann williams to robert penfold and ada caralina to frederick(bonnie)penfold.two brothers to two sisters.i am not to fussed about the williams its the penfolds/taylors/kefford/ball/coopers that i want to find. night night see you tomorrow.cathayb
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Cathayb,i got here too late,youd gone to bed,will post tommorrow,regards.
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There's a William James aged 72 c1779 in Great Marlow Bucks in 1851 with daughter 'C' aged 23.
Next door is James Birch (b Uxbridge, Middx) aged 34 c1817 with wife and 5 children.
Unfortunately, it only gives an initial for first names..... :-\
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thanks for that.i think i know who they are but what on earth were they ding in bucks i dont know!still if your a rome you will travel wont you?i will look into them when i have finished this hunt.welcome nelwild.glad to see you here.wonder what we will come up with today.have you read the pages before this?theres quite a bit on kent gypsies.do you recognise any names?did you get the baptisms on the goldsmiths?cathayb
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Marriage of Moses penfold in 1843 Horsham to either Sarah Riddle or Sarah Aylard,thats the nearest one to 1849, no Elizabeth.....1851 census has this Moses age 33 with wife Sarah 5 childre and moses Father Edward still living in Horsham.
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IGI has a Moses Pinfold marrying Sarah Simpson in Thatcham 1848...Still no Elizabeth Collinson!!
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sorry but he def married elizabeth collinson in 1849 at the parish church barnes in surrey.i think the info came from the parish records.
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I can't find them in the 1851!! is the other Moses a relation??
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i dont know if the other moses is a relation or not.no i cant find moses (mine)in any other cencus!thats why it is a brick wall!further back on here he is in the 1841 cencus with his siblings.i though it might be good to follow them up and see where they are.might give a clue?what do you think?i have the same problem with rosie smith.i cant find a birth ref for her.and i would so like the cert.
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Is he the one in Berkshire age 10 (1841)..
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yes thats him.his dad was moses aswell yes?
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Marriages... Dec 1849 Dorking Surrey 4 111
Callingham Caroline
Horley John
Killick William
Penfold Mary
POTTER Jane
Stemp Anne
Tickner George David Mitchell
Ward James
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Here's some churches in the area....
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/churches?CCC=SRY,GR=TQ230680,DIST=4
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I'm getting confused.....1851 in Thatcham berkshire Moses Pinfold born 1829 wife Sarah, Caroline dau' age 1 and Hannah Simpson Mother in law...I keep bumping into this pair...
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Barnes is in reg dist Richmond Sry (According to Genuki)
Richmond Sry 2a 404 June 1863
BALL Ellen Matilda
COLLINSON Francis Weightman
LEWIS George
PIGGOTT Elizabeth
First 2 look interesting... ;D
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I know what you mean.... ;D
It would help if we had a list of Moses Penfolds to eliminate. ::)
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thats all good stuff.thank you greatly.the killick/penfold marriage and the ball /collinson are very interesting.i still cant find a connection with sarah and moses who you keep coming across.but we know they often had cousins with the same name.i wonder if its our moses es cousin?i just wish some of the others who are doing this line and have the same brick walls would come on her.they are members i think they must all have gone on holiday as i have emailed them!!!!we have moses penfold in devon penfolds aswell just to confuse you further.i am just going have some dinner.i will be back soon.love cathay
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http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/PENFOLD/2001-03/0983487262
More Horsham Penfolds!!!!
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There's 112 Penfold marriages and 2 Pinfold marriages (1754-1911) on
http://woodchurchancestry.org.uk/midkentmarriages/index.php
Nanny Jan
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flippen heck!!!i will be back on the hunt in about 2 years time after i have gone through this lot!!!!!?????LOLhehehe.what a minefield.shall we forget penfolds and do the smiths.they seem easier by comparison!!!cathayb
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Hi Cathy,
Dont know if these will help sometime :) :)
From OFHS Oxfordshire marriage index
12 Mar 1804 Job Tayler to Honour Smith, gypsy at Shutford
30 Dec 1787 Eleanor Smith, gypsy to George Timms, gypsy at Bletchingdon
30 Dec 1714 Gazia Smith, gypsy to Richard Esquire of Southwark at Watlington
28 Aug 1804 Susannah Smith, traveller to Samuel White, traveller at Great Tew.
You did say any Smiths ;D ;D ;D
Sue :)
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i think they will help me now.thanks.i am inclined to shy away from smiths!!!?wonder why.can you find edward smith with anthony smith his dad and eliza or edward with emma taylor and smith kids.i would love to be able to get edwards daughter rosie smiths birth cert if i could find a reference to her somewhere.
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Cathy, Edward was in a census in Abingdon so i will have a look through my PRs for there and
surrounding villages. You never know ;D ;D
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Hi
Marriage Richmond Surry Mar qtr 1849 4 367
Moses Penfond/Penfoud/Penfould
Elizabeth Collison
Claire :)
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Hi Cathay, silly me I suppose it would have helped had I posted it. Now, I couldn't find Joe KEFFORD but I found this one. KEFFORD William (No 750) born 1826- unmarried farm laborer, convicted at Bedford 17.10.1848, transported 7 years. Arrived per vessel "MINDEN" 14.10.1851. Ticket of Leave 14.10.1851. Conditional Pardon April 1854. There are not any Birth, Death or Marriage entries for this man or any Kefford in Western Australia, so I think that he would have returned to England. Convicts with low numbers were very sort after because they mostly committed nothing more than a misdomemar - Roser
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What about this Cathy?
1881 RG11 / 662 / 59 / 1
Edward Smith head, married, age 22 b Larton Oxfordshire, travellers, hawker
Emma Taylor, single age 23, b not known, travellers
Edward Taylor age 3 b Alington, Oxfordshire, travellers
Infant Taylor age 0 b Kingston, Surrey, travellers
Address 1 Caravan Towing Path, Putney
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well thank you all.thats the marriage alright sparkle. joe may have been william and thats why i couldnt find him on convicts list.and thats the right edward smith.i have never been able to find a marriage for him so dont know if he married her or not.there are 3 more children to be born and i do know sometimes she refers to edward as albert(the name of one of her sons)i winder who the infant was male or female?i think we are getting somewhere now. rosie smith is from edward and emma lets see if wwe can find a birth reg.the others are all registered i know its just her!i wonder too if we can find william kefford when he came back to england and maybe before he went.cathay.oh moses and elizabeth i wonder if we can find them together in a cencus.he died in 1889 i know but i am sure they had more than 2 children cathayb
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Oh Well done Sparkle.... Wahoo...
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i cant find them Help?where on earth can they hide?come out all you roms. anyone having any luck?
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dont leave me.we will find something else to look for in this lot in a minute if we cant find these.cathay
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Are these yours? :-\
RG12/1273 Folio 126 Page 6
Building Ground, Caravan, Hibbert Street, Luton, Beds
Albert Smith 35 Traveling Showman Bucks Stewkeley
Emma 34 Bucks Windsor
Teddy 13 Oxford Abbington
Albert 10 Surrey Kingston
"Rossie" 1 Middlesex Hounslow
They seem to match the 1881 census found by Jamajo and the "relatives" living with Joe and Emma Kefford in 1901 census...
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Did you have this? Not sure if its already been posted -
1861 RG9/843 Folio 70 Page 12
Caravan in Frogmore? St, Tring Hertfordshire
Anthony Smith 45 Itinerant Tinman Buckinghamshire Water Eton?
Eliza 33 Oxfordshire
Jane 13 Bucks Drayton Panslow?
Maria 9 Bucks Marsh
Emily 6 Bucks Bletchley
Edward 4 Oxon Bicester
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flippen heck.both post marvelleous.thanks so much.its the ones i am looking for in both cases.interesting spelling for rosie?isnt it.rossie,i wonder if i can find her birth under that name?looks like she may have been born in middx.i am also wodering if emma and edward married what name he used?albert and edward so far.and no i didnt have either.thanks again. eliza anthonys wife was a blackwell before she married by the way.
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and heres 1871 for the family -
1871 RG10/1424 Folio 114 Page 43
Marsh Gibbon, Bucks
Antony Smith 51 Brazier Water Eaton
Eliza 46 Hawker Launton
Maria 19 Hawker Marsh Gibbon
Edwin 14? Scholar Oxon Bicester
Rosina 9 " Oxon Stoken Church
Ambrose 8 " Herts Wilston
Henry 6 " Herts Wilston
Mary 3 Bucks Shirley
In 1881, hes a "travelling tinker" Edlesborough, Bucks RG11/1645 Folio 17 Page 27, with wife Eliza, son Henry and daughter Mary
Nice when they keep the same places of birth on each census, makes them easier to find! :)
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isnt it?i am still searching the igi for rossie/rosie/rose birth.do you know anywhwere else i could look.cathay
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oh and i notice his name is now edwin!!!!?so we have edward/edwin/albert cor i think i will change my name so that my descendants can have fun tracing me aswell!!!!!
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;D Thats just mean!
In 1891 -
Antony Smith 72 Travelling Tinker Water Eaton
Eliza 65 Launton
RG12/1268 Folio 13 Page 19
Grays Yard (caravan) Eddlesborough, Bucks
There are 2 other caravans -
Henry Smith 27 Travelling Hawker Herts Wilstone
Fiance 28 Buckingham
William Smith 33 Travelling Hawker Buckingham
Caroline 30 Buckingham
Jabez 13 New Bradwell
Clementina 6 Rutland Grindon
Nathan 4 Buckingham
Louisa 1 Northant Iron Ferry
Harriet Watts servant 14 Wolverhampton
Regards
Cat :)
ps. the only other place I can think to look is freebmd for birth registrations, but not sure which district Hounslow would come under, and then what district would it be under if they'd moved on to a different area before registering her :-\
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What year are we looking for Rosie's birth?
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Hounslow before 1965 (Genuki)
Chiswick
East Bedfont
Feltham
Hamworth
Heston & Isleworth
New & Old Brentford
All in Mddx
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we think 188/89/90/ for rosies bith. lesanne.you wonderful person.i now have perants for jabez!he figures somewhere in the line i know but not qiute sure where.i dont know who he married but he had a daughter lavina smith born 1889.oh i am so excited this is great.
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Smith Rose Emma Barnet 3a 323 Dec 1899.
This one looks good with Emma as a middle name.
There are others though :o
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oh my God.does that mean i can order a birth cert with those details?oh my goodness i wonder if it is her.it dosnt gine a mothers maiden name i suppose.oh i can t believe it.where did you find it?whers barnet?my geography is lousy!
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:o Cathay, there are lots and lots of Rose Smith's in Middx.
When you order put a check on dad and mum's name. That could save a 'few bob' if it's wrong. About £3 I think.
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okay i will order it tonight and let you all know next week.about that one.oh thankyou.but where is barnet?
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In Middx
Found this on Hounslow 'nearby places'
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?MDX,TQ140760,5,Hounslow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnet
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ChippingBarnet/
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ooooooooooo Hang on Cathay... :-[ thats an 1899 not 1889 that you want......
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oh and i have just rung all concerned to say i think we have found her.oh i am upset.sorry irene when you get on here.false alarm.still the search will continue,heads up soldiers and on we go.. forward into battle...thanks for trying anyway lesanne.cathayb
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;D This one
SMITH Rose Jane Staines 3a 19 Mar 1890.
This is the only one for that date 1888/89/90 in Staines which was the forerunner of Hounslow... Looked in Uxbridge. nowt.
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ealing.html
Just looking at Brentford.
Staines is good as it's near Windsor... well between Windsor and London
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Smith Rose Alice Brentford 3a 78 Mar q 1891. Only Rose in Brentford (for the date) and born just on the census. So this one is probably to young.
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i went onto your links and i only got the place.cant find any names.how do i do that cathay
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Cathay. I find the place/reg district first, then go to Freebmd to find a match... after selecting the district, on the top right hand side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's so annoying not getting any email notifies....
Grrrr :-X Are you on holiday, oh great one ;D
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okay i see now.i am a bit daft.especially after all this we have found today.
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with so many rose smiths i think its going be difficult to track her down dont you.if we could find if and where some of her siblings were baptised perhaps we would find they used the same church for alot of them. what do you think and how about a death for edwaRD OR WHATEVER HE HAD DECICED TO CALL HIMSELF BY CAUSE EMMA MARRIED kefford in 1898.how could they bury rose when they did without a birth cert?or didnt they need one back then?
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On Freebmd you can narrow it down.
Put in the dates.. 3 years only. :D
Then you have Hounslow info which says Staines, Uxbridge and Brentford at that time.
There are no shows in Uxbridge.
and only 1 in each of the others.
Didn't you say her mother was in Windsor?
Are these yours? :-\
RG12/1273 Folio 126 Page 6
Building Ground, Caravan, Hibbert Street, Luton, Beds
Albert Smith 35 Traveling Showman Bucks Stewkeley
Emma 34 Bucks Windsor
Teddy 13 Oxford Abbington
Albert 10 Surrey Kingston
"Rossie" 1 Middlesex Hounslow
They seem to match the 1881 census found by Jamajo and the "relatives" living with Joe and Emma Kefford in 1901 census...
Well done Cat for finding this.
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i have lost the plot i am afraid.whose mother rosies or emmas?all i am sure of is that emma s ancestors were related in some way to the windsor coopers.do you know about the windsor coopers?otherwise it wont mean a thing to you.
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The post above ^ has Emma born Windsor. Emma, mother of Rosie.
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yes windsor it must be then sorry i think i lost it for a while. i have just realised that one of edwards sisters was called rosina.do you think she was named after her and maybe her correct name is rosina?i dont know if that makes a difference.emma taylors mum was called martha by the way
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so albert/edward is a travelling showman?we think he died before 1898 as emma married kefford.if he was a travelling showman they could have had her baptised or registered about anywhere couldnt they?i will have alook on paulines fairgroud site and see what i can see.i will also try the name rosina.she says she was 15 in 1901,that would make her born 1886.i wonder if she was only 1 in 1891.why couldnt they count?i bet they counted their money alright!!!!
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Is this your Martha?
1881 RG11 / 662 / 60 / 3
Joseph Taylor head, age 60, b not known, traveller
Martha wife age 58 b Alton Hampshire, traveller
Delia dau age 26 b N K Hampshire, traveller
Alias son age 24 b Brentford, Middlesex, traveller
Christopher son age 23 b Hackney, Middlesex, traveller
Alfred son age 21 b Bushey, Hertfordshire, traveller
Address Lower Richmond Road, Udalls Field 2 Caravan, Putney.
Sorry if you have this already Cathay :) :) :)
Sue
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i am preety sure its her mum.i suppose she was off and married by then?i cant remember where she was in 1881 i think it was putney with edward and 2 kids.i will go check.i expect i have got this cencus somewhere cause i knew who her mum was but its filed away in the back of nowhere in my super dooper unefficent filing system!!!
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:-\
I can't find Joseph and Emma Kefford in 1901..... Please anyone.
Is Rosie with them aged 11yrs and where was she born?
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yes 1881 they emma and edward were on the towpath at putney!so near to her mum and dad.now if we could just find where they went between 1881 and 1891 we might find a church to look at parish records.who were they with in 1891?i will just go check.cathayb
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1901 she (rosie is with her mum now emma kefford and joe kefford.all the smith kids are with them as visitors but of course they were step children.now she 15 years old.i will just go check wheres she down as being born cause they can be born in a lot of different places all at the same time dont you know!!!!???LOLLOL
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Have you got this in 1891? RG12 / 1023 / 147 / 58
Joseph Taylor head, widower, age 71, b Bushey, occ travelling showman
Mary A Clark granddaughter, single, age 17, b Norbiton, Surrey, occ housekeeper
Albert Taylor son, single, age 40 b Putney, occ horse dealer
Patsy Morley lodger, single, age 30, b Chelsea, occ showmans assistant
Address 2 Quinions Ground Caravan and Tent, Inwood Road, Isleworth, Hounslow.
Sue
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Hey all back for a bout at last, looking forward to my hunt soon ;D
Anyway unless i am behind i have this
1851 - 1 Cheltenham Place, Reading St Lawrence, Berkshire (HO107/1692/347/21)
Pinfold (Fingold transcribed)
Moses 53 Ag Lab Sulhampstead?
Jane 53 Tilehurst
children:
Joseph 20 Parchment maker's labourer Tilehurst
Caroline 18 house servant Tilehurst
Emma 16 Tilehurst
Alfred 14 Tilehurst
Ann 12 Reading
lodgers:
James Rachat? 16 Ag Lab Stockland, Devon
George Taylor 26 Ag Lab Cambridgeshire
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1861 - 5 West Street, Reading St Lawrence, Berkshire (RG9/747/36/21)
Moses Pinfold - lodger - 60 - Lab - Sulhampstead, Berks
Jane Pinfold - lodger - 60 - Tilehurst
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I wonder if that Rachat could be Orchard, David. BTW nice to see you. ;D
Anyone got the 1901 ref nos for Joe and Emma Kefford 'cause I can't find them.... :-\
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oh dear i really have lost it now.are we back on taylors or penfolds?at the momnent they are two different families!they may connect but not yet!!lets see first of all i have seen emma as a kefford with joe kefford 1901 but i am blowed if i can find it now. next i dont know who joseph and mary are and if they connect to me or not.emmas perants i thought were martha and joseph? as for jane and moses penfold wrong penfold i am afraid.if you look back we eventually found my moses with elizabeth collinson.we also found him with his siblings in 1841 with his dad as moses aswell.i cant remember his mum i will need to look back a minute.speak again when i have rechecked what we have done.
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so your Moses was born circa 1827 persumably you already have his :~
MOSES PINFOLD
Christening: 24 AUG 1828 Tilehurst, Berkshire,
Father: MOSES PINFOLD
Mother: JANE
C021803
and siblings
JOSEPH PINFOLD - 10 JUL 1831 Tilehurst, Berkshire, England
GEORGE PINFOLD - 25 MAY 1823
CAROLINE PINFOLD - : 09 JUN 1833
SARAH PINFOLD - : 27 MAR 1826
ALFRED PINFOLD - : 14 JUL 1839
EMMA PINFOLD -: 21 AUG 1836
FANNY PINFOLD - : 09 SEP 1821
ELIZA PINFOLD -
: 25 MAY 1824
Am i wrong the as the 1851 entry i noted is Moses 1827/31 ish parents and siblings?
These do match the 1841 entry with Moses junior at home
David
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dfavidpinkney i am sorry you are right.you had moses perants with some of his siblings in 1851?his dad was moses and his mum was jane.i wonder where he is?we had him in 1841? righjt ref for emma kefford and rosie 1901 ref RG13 1248 folio 72 page 78. sorry i have been so long :P ??? :(
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1871 Jane Pinfold is at same address as 1861 aged 73
Moses Pinfold died Jun qtr 1869, Tilehurst aged 71
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So sorry to confuse you Cathay :) :)
I thought Martha had died as age for Joseph and pob was as in 1881. :)
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Jane Pinfold died dec qtr 1872, Reading aged 74
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1901 Stratford-West Ham-Essex
Emma S Kefford Head Widow 50 b Brentford
John Smith Son-in-law Mar 30 b ??
Emma ?L? Grand daughter 6 b Bromley by Bow
found this ???
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no first off moses penfold jnr died 1889 in a caravan in parmeston road acton middx.maybe that was moses snr?that you got? i dont know who emma kefford with john smith and grandchild is?related though i expect.jamajo i expect your right.i better just go check the tree and not rely on my memory?
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who brought the orchards in to this?i would strongly suspect that rachet is orchard and may well turn out the link to put devon roms with the kent and london roms.be great if it does.the only james orchard i have to marry a penfold married faithfall penfold in 1914.i bet faithfall was one of neds kids.he had enough didnt he?i have orchards down as archett in a number of certificates!!!its the devonshire accent you know? see if you can marry this james off to one of these penfolds and i will increase my family line by 100s.cathayb
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no first off moses penfold jnr died 1889 in a caravan in parmeston road acton middx.maybe that was moses snr?that you got? i dont know who emma kefford with john smith and grandchild is?related though i expect.jamajo i expect your right.i better just go check the tree and not rely on my memory?
yes Moses senior as age was 71 at death as noted
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hi cathay joseph kefford snr married emma smith previous taylor in islington registrar office in 1898 emma was staying at wilsons yard islington at the time of marriage , i believe this was called the agricultral hall emma and joseph and their family were in brook street in 1901 census and were under the name hefford emma said she was 20 and joseph 25 how that worked when emma eldest son by edward smith edward jnr was born in abingdon 1878 and registered in august of that year next came albert, jane, rose and youngest annie vaious ages for these children are given in the census returns.Joseph snrs father was thomas kefford according to their marriage cert and was a deseased swing boat propritor joseph also called hinself a swingboat propritor
ps. irene here at last
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:o Please could someone tell, where Rosie was born on 1901 census?
I can't find them with that ref nos. Where is the family of 'visitors'. Argggh
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at last some one who knows what they are talking about.oh i am sorry i didnt mean all you who are helping me but i meant me as this is quite wide away line of mine!we are only related by marriage to this lot so far but its jojoc direct family so she will be able to help more than me on the smith/taylor line.no you other rooters are fantastic.i dont know how you do it when often you know nothing about the family concerned.take a bow all of you and i will crwl back under the table where i belong.!!cathayb she was born hounslow THE CENCUS IS ON PAGE ONE OR TWO AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS HUNT.CATHAY
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she was born HOUNSLOW that is consistant with the other cencus reports.
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hows this for clever?hi my sue?how are you?this is a fun one!!!taylors/smiths/penfolds/blackwells/and now maybe orchard. oh and keffords.speak in a minute to you. has anyone found moses penfold jnr in the 1851 cencus yet.we have his perants now all through till he died.and in 1851 his perants are with a james possibly orchard?but no sign of moses jnr.do you think he joined an army?he married in 1849 so unlikely isnt it?i think i may have found his wife elizabeth with her daughter in law ada/amy in 1891.still checking it.will let you know.
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At last! Who's the other Emma Kefford in 1901 then that I found earlier? :-\
Joe Kefford 25 Traveller and Hawker Hertford
Emma 20 Staines
Joe 8mo Tottenham
Edward Smith relative 30 Abingdon
Janie Smith relative 25 Putney
Albert Smith relative 20 Kingston
Rosey Smith 15 relative Hounslow
Annie Smith 12 relative Willesden
Caravan Brook Street, Tottenham
RG13/1248 Folio 72 Page 78
;D This one
SMITH Rose Jane Staines 3a 19 Mar 1890.
This is the only one for that date 1888/89/90 in Staines which was the forerunner of Hounslow... Looked in Uxbridge. nowt.
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ealing.html
Just looking at Brentford.
Staines is good as it's near Windsor... well between Windsor and London
Then you have Hounslow info which says Staines, Uxbridge and Brentford at that time.
Didn't you say her mother was in Windsor?
Are these yours? :-\
RG12/1273 Folio 126 Page 6
Building Ground, Caravan, Hibbert Street, Luton, Beds
Albert Smith 35 Traveling Showman Bucks Stewkeley
Emma 34 Bucks Windsor
Teddy 13 Oxford Abbington
Albert 10 Surrey Kingston
"Rossie" 1 Middlesex Hounslow
They seem to match the 1881 census found by Jamajo and the "relatives" living with Joe and Emma Kefford in 1901 census...
I'd go for this one Cathay.... 50/50 chance it's the right one..... ;D ;D
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Better go Thunder storm
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dont go yet.if your still there tell me how to find the ref to send to the gro?i dont know where to find it.help someone
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i got her.at last.i think this is the one.thanks leasanne rose jane smith staines mar qtr 3a 19 page 496 the only one anywhere near hounslow that year!what do you think are you there irene?
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where you all gone?is it time for coffee break?or have you all got thunder storms. we still got some more brick walls to smash here.theres the ancestors of lilley ball,theres moses,where did he get too after 1841, theres jabez smith who did he marry(the one staying near anthony and eliza smith.then theres the little matter of james archett/orchard. i think he marrieds one of those penfold girls he staying s family. dont leave me or if you do come back tomorrow.i will be shopping in the morning or we cant eat but i will rush home as quickly as i can.cathayb
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i have just realised i have jabez in my tree but only him and no dates.cause you found him in the cencus with anthony and eliza i can now fill him out a bit.i wonder can we fins some more about him
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Have you got this from 1881?
RG11 / 662 / 60 /3
Robert Penfold head age 31 b Putney, traveller
Mary A wife age 30 b Putney, traveller
Louisa dau age 3 b Hackney, traveller
Henry son age 1 b Battersea, traveller
Address Lower Richmond Road, Udalls Field, Putney.
Isnt this same place as your Taylors were living?
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gosh that robert and mary are moses and elizabeths son and daughter in law.yes they are in the same place as the taylors and smith were that year.!i dont know about exact adress i will have to check.good on you.thanks. its all getting closer isnt it?
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oh boy it gets better.they are with the smiths!the taylors are on the towpath there in putney.edward smith is son of the smiths in richmond road. acctually its only emma that is a taylor!it must have been smith gathering.!!!!!jabez that i have is also smith and hes with eliza and anthony in 1891 well the next caravan with his mum and ad william and caroline.jabez b. 1878
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RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Taylor or Smith
« on: Sunday 23 March 08 13:04 GMT (UK) »
~~~~~~~~
Hi All
For a few years now my family have been trying to find out about the Taylor Family with no movement in getting any further than gossip amongst ourselves
so I'm hoping with a lot of help from you, you can help us.
I've talked to the only 3 surviving relatives about their father and Grandfather and this (I think) is every thing we know
Jabez Taylor (their father) married Emily Dunn on the 18th August 1902 in Fulham, London, aged 21 and was a crater, Father John Taylor, Crater ( I have the marriage Cert)
Picture of the Grave, which reads as follows
Atherlia Taylor (their Grandmother) who died 25th June 1902 aged 64
Emily Taylor (their mother) who passed away 2nd November 1953 aged 72
Jabez Taylor (their Father) wife of the above who passed away 11th Feb 1965 aged 86
This is what my Great Aunts tell me
Jabez Taylor came from Kent because they all went hop picking with him when they were little, and he took them to Kent to live with relatives of his, in tents and caravans, One year he lost a lot of relatives, when a lot of caravans went over the edge of the road killing the people inside,
He took his mothers name because of some feud in the family
His fathers name was Samuel Smith who they think was a gardener and when he died was buried in the Manor House were he worked.
I dont know why he would say on his marriage Cert his father was John Taylor if he knew it was Sam Smith, I cant find a Birth Cert for him without knowing the father, I can find nothing on his mother Atherlia, even in the 1901 Census, although she died in 1902, One of my Great Aunts thinks that he was born in the Croydon area, was always told that the Smiths were relatives.
Any help would be greatfully received, and hopefully one day we could solve this mystery
Thanks again
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okay we know jabez mother was taylor then?he took taylor name from his mum.but really he was a smith!!yet i have him down as william being his dad and caroline his mum.what we going work out from this thencathayb
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If thats your family Cathay this should be them in 1891 in Camberwell, Surrey
RG12 / 470 / 66 / 32
Robert Penfold head age 41 b Camberwell occ looks like horse seller
Mary Ann wife age 40 b Camberwell
Rose dau age 18 b Camberwell
Robert son age 16 b Camberwell
Louisa dau age 14 b Camberwell
Henry son age 11 b Battersea
Fanny dau age 9 b Battersea
William son age 6 b Battersea
Richard son age 10 months b Peckham
Sue
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the relatives that went over the road.it was the hartlake disaster.that was 1853 so he wasnt born yet.the above is obviously all on hearsay. we must find the facts. obviously he didnt change his name to taylor until 1900s as i have him in 1891 as smith. and it looks like his dad was william.but of course being roms they like to change their names!!!!!i am going change mine then you can all look for me.wouldnt that be fun!!!its late,i am tired,and so i am getting stupid.i will stay on line awhile longer but i wont say alot cause i am about ready to start making mistakes.see what you can make of it so far.
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oh gosh those penfolds!i think now these might be my ones cousins!!!right names!right area!but wrong dates of birth and a couple of extra kids!!mine are in battersea somewhere though i do know.but my roberts son was born 1889 and your one here was born 1875?too much difference even for roms i think?my henry was b. 1895 and this on e here 1980.ah your robert the dad was born 1850 and mine in 1865.they are almost identical except the ages!!!
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athaliah taylor christened 26 june 1842 long ditton surrey daughter of jerimiah/augusta taylor, jerimiah was son of jerimiah/sarah and yes hartlake disaster havent found any entry for athelia marriage there is every possibility that there is a connection to jabez taylor or was he smith?
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From Harwell Berkshire PRs
Baptisms
Mar 6 1747 Henry Smith son of Michael and Zilpah, travellers
And just in case these help with your other tree Cathay
24 Oct 1742 James Hughes son of James and Ann travellers
Nov 29 1760 Ann Hughes dau John and Mary, travellers
Its getting late for me as well but will be back in the morning. Hope adding the Hughes
may help. This is all i found although there are lots of other familys. ;D ;D ;D
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very confusing 1861 census for hammersmith middx gives jerimiah with augusta and the family althjough think eda poss ada and mininny poss minny then in 1871 census for kensal road chelsea augusta is now calling herself wife of francis light and a patience light has appeared age 14 cant belong to jerimiah not shown on 1861 census poss henry 9 belongs to augusta/francis light or is it that this is jerimiah with a change of name and age any ideas
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oh my word.tomorrow promise to be as exciting and mind stretching as today, irene in my cencus with jabez age 13 in 1891 and then according to tree hunter he marries in 1902 age 21?23 or 21 is close enough for roms.it is the right area and in 1891 him and his family are with the right poeple.our relatives.according to tree hunter there was a big family rift and obviously william smith did the dirty somewhere and his son and family seem to have disowned him and dont want him traced so they are giving false names.it happens alot with roms.but yes i am tired so i will need to check it all again tomorrow.but i have every hope now that athelia will turn out to be a granma and augusta a great granma.i am wondering why william smith and edward smith went missing at the same time .have you a death ref or a cert for edwards death?food for thought everyone?and we still have that james achet/orchard turning up with the penfolds to contend with.night all,see you tomorrow afternoon.cathayb
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i have quite a few ideas. but i think its going to be easier to work backwards from the 1902 wedding of jabez. we then have him in 1891 but we need him 1n 1881 next, then we can work back to athelia and find out where the lights come into it?i must admit i havent really looked at the possibilities yet. but i will tomorrow i promise and tree hunter may be on here then aswell.are you working tomorrow?if so we will see you in the evening.love cathayb.thanks for all your help everybody today.we have accomplished quite abit.
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do we know when jermiah died?did augusta leave him?is patience light the child of francis light now a step daughter to augusta?alot of men and women died young of the tb in those days and men and women remarried.i dont know.its just possibilities.was caroline a light or a taylor before she married william smith.is william smith really samuel smith or even john smith.at this stage we really dont know.this is where real research starts getting harder.its why i have so many brick walls in my tree.you need others to help you work it out and add info at this stage.thats why these scavenger hunts are so precious.lets see what happens tomorrow.cathay
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There's some terrific information coming out Cathay.........well done you lot, brilliant as always... ;D ;D
Barbara
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will have to reread i dont think i have posted sincepage 4!
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I'm getting lost now :-\ I saw Jeremiah and Augusta mentioned earlier, and Athaliah, these ones I presume? -
RG9/26 Folio 140 Page 54
Covered Cart & Tent, St Paul Hammersmith, Middlesex
Jeremiah Taylor 47 Basket Maker Herts Watford
Augusta 44 Bucks High Wycombe
Athaliah 19 Surrey Moulsey
"Mininny? 10 School Kent ..oodley W Hadham?
Christopher 6 Wandsworth
Eda 3 Kensington
Georgiana 2 Hammersmith
Roberts, Boswells, Hernes, Coopers and Allen are also in tents/caravans with them
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will have to reread i dont think i have posted sincepage 4!
Page 4 Toni...........you're getting slack........ ;D ;D ;D
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This could be Christopher in 1871 -
A tent situated on the south side of Kensal Road, Chelsea North East
RG10/91 Folio 78 Page 27
Henry Taylor 20 Hawker ..arrow Middlesex
Christopher Taylor 16 Hawker Wandsworth
Other Taylor/Smith families in caravans -
Joseph and Henrietta Taylor + children George, Emma and Alfred
/
Albert Taylor 20 (b. Putney) and Henry Taylor 18 (b. Malden
Surrey)
/
Plato and Elizabeth Taylor + children Henrietta, Amy, Jeremiah and Deliath?
/
Sidney and Catherine Smith + daughter Phoebe 3
Other travellers with them - Davis, Light, Stone? and Simpson
(there also a 14yr old Leavnia Smith, b. Kensington, "servant" to the Stone family)
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Looking at Light's. Are they in your tree Cathay?
Freebmd.
June 1843 3/29 Chelsea Brides
Augusta COOPER
Elizabeth LIGHT
A page of names. :o Take a look for Grooms.
Jun 1892 2b/1305
New Forest
Francis Augustus LIGHT
Looks interesting
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Cathayb,couldnt get on yesterday as had a lot to do,earn a bit of money being one thing,im free today so should be able to post a bit.Ive been in touch with someone on GenesReunited who has Goldsmith relatives in Sussex,no obvious link to mine as yet,big family but very settled in one town.(hailsham).Whats intresting is his Thomas Goldsmiths mother,she was Mary Elphick b1822 ,warnham,sussex,her parents were Thomas Elphick b1798 and Mary Penfold b1799,sussex.Marys parents were William Penfold b1777 sussex and Sarah Muggeridge b1778 sussex.What do you think?I notice your looking for Penfolds,so this may be of some use.regards.
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A bit from 1881.
Pashens Light (James)
Rg11 1204 69 25
New Forest. Mother Ann.
Patience Light
RG11 2780 86 4
Stafford. Father Abraham
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:D
Marriages Jun 1859 3a 655 Henley
Light Thomas + Smith Jane
son.
Births Mar 1860
LIGHT William Thomas Wycombe 3a 403
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I think this is Plato Taylor's marriage -
Plato Taylor December 1848 Tonbridge Vol 5 Page 697
The only bride listed with a version of the name Elizabeth is "Bet Webb"
Christopher, son of Jeremiah and Augusta?
RG12/1036 Folio 146 Page 28
12 Osborn Terrace, Acton, Middlesex
Christopher Taylor 37 Chair Caner Wandsworth
Sarah 33 Laundress Chelsea
Millie 14 Isleworth
Sarah 10 Acton
George 5 Acton
Caroline 2 Acton
Maud 1mo Acton
Neighbouring family is Thomas (General Dealer) and Mary A Hearn(Hawker) + son Henry 14 and grandson Christopher (3)
1881 Christopher, Sarah and Millie/Amelia RG11/1355 Folio 89 Page 58
Also in 1881, Augusta seems to now be Caroline :-\ -
1881 RG11/33 Folio 59 Page 74
4 Tobin? Street, Kensington
Caroline Taylor 64 widow Hawker Bucks
Georgeinne Naylor? widow dau 20 Hammersmith
Sarah Naylor granddau 3 Kensington
Henry Naylor grandson 2mo Kensington
Boswell/Matthews family living in same house, separate household (William and Freedom)
+ boarder Lizzie West 17 Washer Kensington
Georgina's marriage? June 1878 Kensington 1a 62 (Groom - James Naylar)
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Jabez in neighbouring caravan to parents and siblings in 1901 -
RG13/1355 Folio 95 Page 24
Caravans in ......py Anns Field, Aylesbury, Bucks
William Smith 42 Hawker Buckingham
Caroline 40 Northampton
Lemotiner (Clementina?) 17 Rutlandshire Balet Esh
Nathan 13 Buckingham
Louie 11 Northants
Mary 8 Ivinghoe
Rachel 5 Adstock
Billie 3 Buckingham
Edith 2 Buckingham
Firece (Fiance?) niece 8
Henry Dudman servant 31? Carter Westminster
//
Jabez Smith 21 Hawker Bucks Stantonbury
Tillie 22 Bucks Naphill Common
Thomas 1 Herts Cola......... Berkhampstead?
Marriage?
Jabez Smith June 1899 Brackley Vol 3b Page 4
Brides - Matilda Flatcher (Fletcher?) or Mary Ann Turner
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hi Cathay and all
a day late but i found u.
got a stinking cold and brain just isnt working today, nothing is going in. who are you looking for cause i cant make head nor tail or it today, my fault im sure. not sure i
,ll be much help. matilda ;)
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David, welcome back is it your hunt next week?
anyhow the Moses on IGI found matched perfectly with father Moses and y.o.b and the cnesus you have macth him to but .... they are meant to be a travelling family and well they certainly didnt travel very far in nearly 20 years for the births of their childfren and alos with the Moses senior death and Jane - his wife death.
Moses Pinfold maried also in berks (i think) but this was not Cathays Moses, as he married under the name of Penfound (Penfould)
so not entirely sure if the Moses i found on IGI and themoses you followed through the census is right after all.
ii hope 'm not repeating stuff here
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Hi All,
Cathay dont know if this has been posted before :) :)
1881 RG11 / 1318 / 97 / 30
Charles Smith head age 35 b Windsor, occ licensed hawker
Ruth Smith wife age 30 b Oxford
Plato Smith son age 10 b Henley on Thames
Lena Smith dau age 8 b Reading
Louisa Smith dau age 8 b Wycombe
Zouly Smith dau age 4 b Ascot, Berkshire
Celena Smith dau age 2 b Emsbury, Wiltshire
Address London Road living in caravan, Warfield
Sue
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And think this is follow on from family CatOne found in 1871
1881
Plato Taylor head age 57 b Bushey, Hertfordshire, occ licensed hawker
Betsy wife age 56 b Stratford Hertfordshire, occ licensed hawker
Jeremiah son age 16 b Notting Hill, Middlesex, occ licensed hawker
Delilah dau age 11 b Kensal Green, Essex
Thomas Wheeler boarder age 21 b Coggeshal, Essex, occ basket maker
Address Wanstead Flats Caravan, Wanstead
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right back from town.found your post nelwild.thanks nelwild have you got killicks in your tree?some of them married penfolds! to the rest of you yes plato taylor is in my tree and i have always thought augusta might have remarried a light but i am not sure.need a marriage ref for her and him. i would love to know what happened to jermiah if so?plato did marry elizabeth webb.you are correct there. i would love to know what happened to athelia(jermiah and augusta daughter.)she comes up as being a granma(see back to post i pasted from deerhunter)to one of the smiths. jabez taylor changed his name to taylor.in 1891 he was still smith with william and caroline his perants!?there was a big fall out in the family and he changed to his mothers maiden name.in one place hhe says his dad was samuel and on his marriage cert he says john but i think it was william!!!william and edward smith both disappear from the lives of their families in the 1890s.did they die what Happened to them.were they up to know good to cause the rift in both families and is caroline got another name?well i told you we were doing my brick walls didnt i!
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talking of brick walls.dont forget james achett?orchard age 16 with the penfolds?does he marry one of them?it will link devon roms with london/kent roms if he does??
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Has the thought they may have gone oversea's with the others...... 8)
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matilda.have you heard of a james orchard born about 1825 in devon? had they gone overseas.what like america or aussie.i dont know.i think they normally went with their families didnt they?i might be worth having a look.we need tiggi for this.she very good with family going overseas?
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whose the others? that went overseas.i only know of coopers/stanleys that went in any great no?
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Tenet rings a bell. Can't remember whose SC Hunt it was or the surname.... :-\
Added... Tiggi's Bucklands going to USA...
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i am afraid tenet means nothing to me.i am more inclined to think the smiths did something very wrong to upset the families so much and maybe they even went to prison.i will look for them in some prison records around the area.i have a a quick look on the boats passengers lists but cant find them.
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jjust found a thomas kefford no dates with a wife caroline and a son joseph kefford born/baptised 1849 in family search.this must be the one who married emma taylor/smith in 1898.cathay
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Cathay does a Joseph Cooper wife Charity mean anything to you?
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well i have 4 joseph coopers in my line and no idea who they married but on of them again i have no dates was son of a vanslow cooper and margaret smith! i also have a charity cooper in my line but she married robert william penfold.b 1869 married 1908 in tottenham.robert was born in battersea.charity was born in brighton in 1887.
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Dont think this can be your family then. Charity was b 1854 and her mother is liviing with her and her family. Her mothers name is Charity Collins. Joseph was b 1848 in Kent.
Wil keep searching :) :) :)
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anthony smith m eliza blackwell oct-dec quarter
1841 vol 6 page 11
this would be right (PARENTS EDWARD SMITH)
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Is this one of your Smiths?
Amy Smith September 1873 Ticehurst 2b 140
Groom - Vanslow Cooper
1901 RG13/1180 Folio 55 Page 31
Yeading (caravans in Mr Geo. Pursers Fields) Hayes, Middlesex
Vanstowe Cooper 47 Wood Merchant Middlesex Sudbury
Amy 49 Licensed Hawker Kent Hadlow
George 23 Flower Hawker Surrey O..stead
Amy 19 Licensed Hawker Berks Ascot
Alfred 16 Flower Hawker Sussex Beckley
Minnie 14 "
Charity 9 Middlsex Hounlsow
Rhoda 7 "
Samuel 2 Barking Essex
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1861 census hitchin hertfordshire thomas kefford wife carling and family including joseph born 1849 joseph says born 1850 hertford herts children born around stevenage baldock........ so if this is correct family, cannot be alias william kefford deported to australia in 1848 joseph to young and thomas busy on the home front!! having a son george aged 14 that would definately be the time he was supposed to be in tasmania
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1881 RG11 / 306 / 42 / 78
Darkiss Cooper head age 56 b Kent occ tinker
Myra wife age 51 b Chingford, Essex, occ basket maker
Samson Gabs son age 26 b Chingford occ lab
Miriam dau age 24 b Eltham Kent, occ basket maker
Joseph son age 16 b Norwood Surrey, occ Wood turner
Eliza dau age 14 b Norwood Surrey
Elizabeth dau age 10 b Loughton Essex
Ezekiel son age 8 b Loughton Essex
Address Elderfield Road, ( Waste Land ) Gipsy Vans, Hackney
What some great names, just had to post :) :)
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vanslow and amy smith mine.as these are part of the windsor coopers they are very well researched so leave them bot we dont know the ascestry of amy smith.that would be good. old alfie said that thomas father was also thomas so that s william right out the picture i think.it must have been thomases father that went to aussie?any kefford info around that time is useful as i have only done them back to late 1800s at present.
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i am also looking for a dangerfull cooper born 1835 to nelso cooper and isabella smith.he had a sister brittainia for anyone who really wants to follow coopers.like smiths they are a minefield though
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if anyone comes across rhoda smith i would love to know more about her?i know nothing but hearing from other people and i feel she should be in the tree but shes not yet!
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just going ring someone and see if i can get a few leaders to bring us back into focus.back in a minute.cathay
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cathayb,thanks for the reply,i dont know if you ve seen the messages ive left on discussion forum of gypsies passing through sitesince i wrote it,ive discovered a load more ancestors who appear to be gypsies,the names there are rossiter,knight,hogbin,barnett,bean,shilling,taylor,a thomas taylor rossiter and a richard cooper rossiter,also a lee and a church.theyre all connected to the stones/goldmiths etc.its stuff ive got from another GenesReunited member and havent had a chance to check census yet,but the occupations shes put down are hawker/drapery box maker/showman/musician/lodging house keeper/traveller in millinary/pedlar/tanner/licensed hawker/chimney sweep.ive got to go to supermarket now,but will post with more details when i get back.bye for now,nel.
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yes 1901 census pursers field hayes middlesex this george cooper is the one who married jane smith 1905 brentford jane daughter of emma taylor/edward smith also on this census alfred his brother who married emily amer also in brentford in 1905, i am told it wasnt a double wedding but emily and alfred were witnesses for george and jane
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oh hi nelwild.i have got a full tree of rossiters.will send you at abba.i will look on passin g through in a minute.i am very very interested in the rossiter coopers and rossiter taylors in kent.please try and post some info about them on here and then we can all look.
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Cathay still searching and wondered if you have a Job Cooper and wife Selina in your tree.
They are living with Bucklands in Windsor :) :)
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yes i have.he was born 1831 and married selina lee.they had reshinda and isabella 1849 and 1852.his dad was leonard son of henry.i can go back with this family but not forward afer isabella.
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sorry to be a pain cause i will accept any help really from wherever it comes but could we go back to the main objectives started at the beginning of the hunt??it seems we have possibly found rose smith big tick, we havent done much on the killicks in kent. we seem to have found moses penfold marriage and in the cencus 1841.big tick anyone have any joy in later cencuses?we still cant find joe thomas or thomas joe as aconvict to aussie somewhere. we need to find penfold moses 1841 connection to james achett/orchard b. 1825 devon but with moses and family 1841?that is a really important one as it will connect hopefully devon and kent and london roms!!!we still need to find edward and william smith wherabouts after they left their families in the 1890s. i hope that pulls it together a bit.i have got such alot of stuff from this hunt its going to take weeks to digest!but while i m here i intend to make the most of it even if i get fat???!!!!LOLLOL ;D :P :P :P :-*oh and of course anything you can find on london/kent penfolds.cathayb
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You mentioned Dangerfull Cooper on page 13?
Could this be him? not sure which time period you meant, if this is him, he died before the censuses unfortunately :-\
Death - Dangerfield Cooper March 1840 Epsom Vol 4 Page 89
So you are now after Killicks and Keffords? Will take a look.....
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Killicks and Penfolds in same area, not travellers though :-\
HO107/1594 Folio 349 Page 10
Shere, Surrey
Rebecah Penfold 22 Dressmaker Shere
Samuel 26 brother Tanner Dorking
Mary mother 62 widow pauper Dorking
//
Betheah? Killick 30 married Dressmaker Surrey New de gate
Walter W 5? Shere
James 4 Shere
William 2 Devon Upottery
? 2 weeks Shere
Mary A Frances nurse mar 48 Sussex Rudgweek?
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I don't think its my hunt next week from the schedule, Barbara is it?
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Hey all back for a bout at last, looking forward to my hunt soon ;D
Anyway unless i am behind i have this
1851 - 1 Cheltenham Place, Reading St Lawrence, Berkshire (HO107/1692/347/21)
Pinfold (Fingold transcribed)
Moses 53 Ag Lab Sulhampstead?
Jane 53 Tilehurst
children:
Joseph 20 Parchment maker's labourer Tilehurst
Caroline 18 house servant Tilehurst
Emma 16 Tilehurst
Alfred 14 Tilehurst
Ann 12 Reading
lodgers:
James Rachat? 16 Ag Lab Stockland, Devon
George Taylor 26 Ag Lab Cambridgeshire
Have tracked all the girls down in marriage and none married James (of any surname) although Ann did marry a Samuel Taylor in 1860 (hes was born Glos)
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thanks for that davidpinkey.what a shame.ah well.he must have known them anyway.could you let us know who the girls married? yes i think thats his death.he was born 1835.i knew he died very young so i am sure thats him.poor mother?!
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the killick penfold is interesting.i wonder who her husband was and if she was widowed young.i need to look at that.
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right i have found my old notes.but this is all i have no details!!!mose penfold b.1829 married elizabeth collinson in 1849 in battersea.moses died in 1889.witnesses at the wedding were frances penfold and rosanna penfold. they had a son robert penfold who married mary ann williams and they had a son who married amy ball. no dates i am afraid.oh then they had a son robert william penfold who married charity cooper who is something to do with the windsor coopers.her dad was alfred. i have just made odd notes on all these to research as it happens now. christopher penfold who was born in somerset married patience gess and they ended up in battersea in 1891.i know they all tie together somehow but that is the question.cathayb
Do you have the actual certificate for Moses Penfold and Elizabeth Collinson is it info from somewhere i can't find the reference on BMD for it?
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here David
Hi
Marriage Richmond Surry Mar qtr 1849 4 367
Moses Penfond/Penfoud/Penfould
Elizabeth Collison
Claire :)
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thanks toni.there was i going through all the pages looking for it and you had already posted it.that will tech me to read all the latest replies be fore i try and answer.cathayb
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This is Rebecca Penfold and family in 1841, in case they connect somehow with yours -
HO107/1045/11 Folio 17 Page 28
Gumshall? Shere, Surrey
George Penfold 55 Tanner All born in county
Mary 55 Y
John 25 Labourer
Samuel 15
Rachel 15
Rebekah 12
Hannah 11
1861 RG9/442 Folio 13 Page 21
Reigate Foreign, Surrey
Mary Penfold widow 71 Dressmaker Dorking
Rebecca 32 Dressmaker Shere
This seems to be the same Killicks in 1861 -
RG9/881 Folio 76 Page 1
Northfield Road, Henley on Thames, Oxfordshire
Eleanor J? Killick wife 31 Wife of a papermaker Henley on Thames
Walter W 15 Papermaker Shere
James 14 Scholar Shere
William 12 Scholar Upottery Devon
+ lodger Helena Shennan 71 ... Annuity Henley on Thames
Would this be Patience Gess and family?
1871 RG10/2120 Folio 136 Page 56
Caravan, St Andrew, Devon
Henry Gess 35 Travelling Brushseller? Lee Kent
Charlotte 32 Plymouth Devon
Elizth A 14 "
Joseph 12 "
Charlotte 10 Guernsey
Elizth 8 Plymouth
Henry 6 "
Eliza 4 "
Patience 2 "
John 8mo "
+ boarder John Harris 20
A Smith family also in a caravan -
Henry (26 Traveller Norfolk?) and Eliza Smith (21 Yarmouth?) + children Edward (2 Plymouth) and Emma (5mo Plymouth)
Marriage -
Henry Gess and Charlotte Penfold December 1855 Plymouth 5b 476
Christopher Penfold and Patience Guest Sept 1864 Plymouth 5b 466
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this one married charlotte penfold and this henry sister i think was the one that married christopher penfold!her name was patience. henry and patience were the children of henry wilkins gess and rebbecca. this family were show poeple and somewhere along the line i know they marry into rosaire?rossiter/roser and wilson families from kent.they all appear together in the 1891 cencus in gurlings yard in middlesex.
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Christopher and Patience's daughter Patience is with grandparents Henry and Rebecca? Gess in 1881, in Wandsworth London. Henry is a retired Licensed Hawker
24 ..ardley Street, Wandsworth
RG11/659 Folio 136 Page 12
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thats the correct marriages.christopher penfold is child of john penfold and harriet james!!!he was born in devon(christopher).when you see this sort of thing its what makes me sure there are more connections between devon/kent/london roms.
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1861
RG9; 761; 122; 42;
Frimley Surrey
Returns for those NOT in houses
Tents
Henry Hazard head mar 36 gipsies b. wantage herts
Diana wife 34 b. do. (all born do.)
William son 13
Ocean dau. 8
Job son 6
(all marked as gipsies)
Waggons
Thomas Cooper head mar 24 b. Surrey Certsey
Sarah wife ... basket sellers b. herts wantage
Nelson son 6 b. Middlesex Uxbridge
walter son 4 b. ascot berks
matilda dau. 6 months b. (sorry i cant read it)
(all marked as ... basket sellers)
Job Cooper head mar 30 b. surrey frimley
Selina wife 30 b. warwick (this would be Selina nee Lee)
Reshinda dau. 12 b. Oxon
Isabella dau. 9 b. berks
Sophia Buckland (no relationship given) widow 56 b. Oxon
Sabrina dau. 30 b. wawick claydon
Sabina dau. 15 b. Oxon
(all dittoed from ... basket sellers)
Nelson Cooper head mar 28 b. surrey frimley
General wife 26 b. berks
Emma dau 3 b. do.
Isiah son 6 b. do.
Ruth dau. 2 b. surrey
Rebecca dau 1 b. do.
Diana dau. 2 months b. do.
(all dittoed from ... basket sellers)
i found this marriage pretty sure its related
Dec 1850
Cooper Rising Thomas Aylsham 13 51
and then death
Sep 1881
Cooper Rissing Thomas aged 56 Mile End 1c 332
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i have just spent nearly an hour going through james orchard births and not one likely in devon can i find.what a let down.back to the drawing board.cathayb
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yes i know about these.they are in the tree.general other wise known as jane is hazards daughter.
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i think i got the wrong hazard(henry)and general?my hazard married ? no this is the right one and you have just broken another brick wall for me.the ages are abit iffy but we know how they lied!now i know generals siblings and mother unless this turns out to be generals brother hazard.she def married nelson cooper but she is down as father henry hazxard and her mother a buckland.she married in the name of buckland?can we find this one cencus back and see if its her brother or father?
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What about this family?
1881 RG11 / 903 / 11 / 16
Thos Penfold head age 55 b Farningham Kent occ gen dealer
Elizabeth L wife age 52 b Horsemenden,Kent occ hawker
Thos son age 27, married b Rovenden Kent occ gen dealer
Betsy dau age 19 married b Groombridge, Kent occ hawker
Joseph son age 17 single b Sundridge Kent occ hawker
Patience dau age 13 b Camberwell Kent
James son age 12 b Northfleet Kent
Edwd son age 6 b Malling Kent
Joseph Ball son in law, married age 23 b Rasby Leicestershire occ gen dealer
David Penfold grandson age 6 b New Cross Kent
Address Caravan, Offham
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i dont know these but that dosnt mean they dont apply.so i will take note. has anyone caught site of ada penfold b.1891 charlie penfold b.1893,henry p b.1895,moses 1897,mary ann 1900 with their perants robert and mary ann? in the 1901 cencus?i think they will be in middx or london.
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here David
Hi
Marriage Richmond Surry Mar qtr 1849 4 367
Moses Penfond/Penfoud/Penfould
Elizabeth Collison
Ok have found that now, would help if was looking for Collison not Collinson!
Claire :)
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whose scavenger hunt is it next week anyway?
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Have you gone back further from Moses Penfold and Jane?
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i was trying to follow up Reshinda andher family but they seem to have disappeared - emigrated perhaps i can't see a whole familyjust dissappearing
who is Rissing Thomas Cooper ?
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Cathay is this Robert and Mary in 1901 in Battersea
RG13 / 451 / 75 / 33
Sue :)
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as my name is birch i expect you realise my main line in my rather large tree is BIRCH.NOW THE BIRCHES DIDNT GO MUCH TO KENT EXCEPT ONE that i know of that is ellen birch who married joshua cooper.they split divorce or not married anyway and he married louisa birch. they would be around the 1880 1890s together i would think.apart from knowing they are relatives of mine i no nothing more than what i have put here.i am in touch with their present day reliatives but other than this i dont know.oh yes i do louisa dad was henry birchb.1839 and her mother was either catherine westcott or alice dymond.we dont know which as catherine died soon after louisa was born and alice was also in co hoots with henry by then. this is just to put cat among the pidgeons so to speak!as the purpose of this hunt was to connect kent/lodon/devon roms.louisa and joshua cooper lived in kent i do know.henry louisas dad was born in devon.
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Living next to them is George and Elizabeth Taylor and family. Next to these are a Turner family
with 2 Penfolds living with them :)
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no i havent gone back further than moses and jane. i will go look at the ref for robert and mary i dont know anything about reshinda or rising thomas?sorry
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Moses Penfold christened 30/3/1800 Sulhampstead bannister, Berkshire
parents Thomas Penfold and Ann
source IGI
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cor thanks david.thats great. re robert look at pages 32,33,34,35 it full of penfolds,james,wilsons,christopher born devon is there. coopers,clarkes all names from my family but i have the devon ones,these are the lodon ones.how are we linked cause i know we are.cathay
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cathayb,i havent had a chance to check census yet,but will post some of what ive been given,then post more a bit later.The isaac stone that married kezia goldsmith had a brother called horatio stone b1861,sittingbourne,kent,he married clara rossiter 1864 sittingbourne.claras rossiter siblings are sarah ann b1850,sitt.henry thomas b1852,milton,nancy b1856,sitt.louisa b1859,sitt.edward b1867,sitt.margaret selina b1871,sheerness.claras parents are thomas rossiter b1825,ashford,kent,brickmaker/labourer and emily spittle b1822,kent.thomas siblings are sarah b1810,milton,richard b1813,sitt.edward b1814,milton,(hawker/drapery box maker),mary b1816,william b1818,(labourer and lodging house keeper),ann b1821 birthplace unknown,john b1823,place unknown,(lodging house keeper/mariner),henry b1828,musician.sarah(1810),marries charles knight b1800,england,their kids are mary b1838,kent and john b1839,kent.then edward marries mary?,b 1821,kent,their son is edward b1840,sitt.(drapers porter/traveller in millinary/pedlar)then mary(1816) marries william hogbin 1817,hollingbourne,kent,(tanner)forgot to record their kids,will post them after,then william(1818)marries hester horton b 1819 sitt,kids william b1843 sitt,emily b1844,george b1864,sitt,nancy b1848,john 1850,edward b1852,all sitt then ann b1821 marries george knight b1815,kent,no kids,then john(1823) marries 1st eliza barnett b1824,kent and 2nd esther bean b1831,dover,kids of john and esther are john henry b1871,folkstone,(lab in brickfield),sarah b1873,folkstone(pupil teacher),florence b1877,folkstone(factory hand),then henry (1828) marries eliza shilling,almost certainly the same eliza shilling/johnson from earlier postings.there kids are henry william b milton,charles inkerman b1856,milton.ernest 1858,b milton.i have more recent children but will skip to further back and do those a bit later otherwise take v long,thomas(1825)etcs father is edward rossiter b1778 sheerness,mariner and labourer marries ann loader b1749,england.edwards siblings are john 1785,england,(chimney sweep),william b1785,aylsford,kent,(licensed hawker and labourer),richard cooper rossiter b1786,maidstone,kent,elizabeth rossiter b1796,upchurch,thomas taylor rossiter b1798,milton,(ag.lab),sarah rossiter b1803,england,mary ann b1804,milton.edward (1778)etc father was richard rossiter b1757,sittingbourne(showman)died in sitt.workhouse 1843,he married sarah taylor in west malling,kent in 1785,she was born 1758 england,died sitt workhouse 1828.saras parents were william b1730,england and sarah ? b 1735,england,john 1785 married ann wilson b1786,england,had 8 kids,details to follow,william married hester marden b1790,england had 12 kids,details to follow,elizabeth1796 m thomas mann b1790,england,thomas (1798),marries mary bennett had 6 kids,details to follow,sarah(1803) marries robert gardener b1800england,mary(1804) marries george lee b1800,england.im going to give me finger a rest now,will post more a bit later,regards,nel.
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nelwild,i will send details of rossiter and wilson tree tomorrow to you.i will also put you in touch with some of your relatives in australia.you are also very loosely at the moment related to me from way back.can you look to see if the name gess comes up in your line anywhere?it could be spelt gess or guess or even wilkins gess. but one of the gess girls married one of the kent wilkins thats for sure.they are now and have been for quite a long time show people.i will also send you some photos.remeber now have a look for gess. i also am taking note of the cooper rossiters and taylor rossiters.
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Phew ;D That's just reading it... Well done Nel... ;D
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another point nelwild is to look for the surname rose/roser/rosaire/rossiter they went under all those spellings and stuck to the present day with rosaire cause it sounds good round the showgrounds!!you should find some in east grinsted.one family of them rosers i think they were called went to aussie in 1842 on the simon ???? i forget.ship.western australia anyway and they left poor john wilson/rosser behind and he was only 13!!there are books written about them in aussie.also look for the name player. cathayb
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nelwild could you please let me know if you have had some emails from me at the abba address?i dont want to send stuff through if your not getting it?
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cathayb,im getting emails,thanks,sorry to take a while to respond each time,only im away from pc then back again,im grateful for everything anyone can give me that will bring me closer to these amazing relatives,nel.
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Cathay:
I've found PENFOLD while researching the dreaded LUFF and gave debusa the info. If she hasn't forwarded to you, please remind her to do so.
Don't recall any more about it, sorry. Wasn't among the FHC films I went through last weekend....
Good luck!
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thats okay then nel.i will send some stuff through later. sbadger.debsusa has gone to the beach for a few days but i will catch up with her soon.we have accomplised alot on here so far.cathay
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isabella smith born 1883 married james miller (hawker)1902 and her sister rebecca born 1898 married henry miller 1923.these were london and kent smiths.there are penfolds and coopers(john)in this line too.
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cathayb,if your still about i have this which i think you have,on 1861 sarah goldsmith had staying with her at 106 high st,sheerness,Joseph Guess,b1811,rye,sussex and Diane Guess b1818 hythe,kent,both hawkers,the only census entry i can find for them,speak to you tomorrow,regards,nel.
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wonderful.are they in your family line?did you get all the gen i have sent you tonight?the gess bits are to do with me
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vanslow and amy smith mine.as these are part of the windsor coopers they are very well researched so leave them bot we dont know the ascestry of amy smith.that would be good. old alfie said that thomas father was also thomas so that s william right out the picture i think.it must have been thomases father that went to aussie?any kefford info around that time is useful as i have only done them back to late 1800s at present.
cathay, i might have amy smiths lineage.... Amy was daughter of a george smith, we know that from her marriage. She is a sussex smith, that has always been known. I have a bapt for an amy smith (got to find the exact details) right year etc parents George and Ellen Smith. Well George and Ellen i do know. Patience cooper nee smith who marries samuel cooper son of matty cooper, her parents are george smith and mary ann willoughby. Georges parents were george and olive smith. Olive died and george snr remarried an ellen and they had further children in the 1850s. I havent got defininitve proof that this is the right george and ellen, but amy would be patience aunt, and also her sister in law by marriage to samuel cooper brother of vanselow (who married amy)Will look into amy more, betty xx
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gosh thanks smileyface.your a star like all the others helping on here.
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so remind me who was the kent cooper that married finace/definance penfold?she might be worth following up,as she was from devon i know.didnt her brother albert marry a cooper girl?
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Hi Cathay,
Is this Defiance Penfold with parents and family in 1891? :)
RG12 / 1771 / 73 / 11
Sue :)
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yes thats her!perants henry and ocean yes?in soth molten devon.i have found that she married vanslow cooper and had a son orifus.she was born 1878.i know the history of henry and ocean.ocean was a hughes before she married.she is (ocean)our gt.gt.granma one side and our gt.gt.aunt the other side!!!maternal and paternal!thats her finished i know all about her now.thanks.cathayb
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Cathay can you give me quick update on what you still need please :) :)
Any Penfolds or Coopers you still need. Something for me to try and find ;D ;D
Sue
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i think i am alright now for cooper and penfolds. what i really need is the killicks and penfolds in kent london.and i would relly like to find any orchards at asll in london or kent.is that any help to you?i cannot believe the brick walls you broke for me.its fantastic.oh and i am looking for isabella smith and her sister.they married millers.in totenham early 1900s.cathayb
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Cathay what years roughly for your familys? :) :) :)
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soory i have been so long getting back to you but i have had nothing but visitors today!!!the first orchard i know of was born 1825 approx in devon and ended up age 16 with moses penfolds family in 1841 cencus.i cant find him after.i would like to know who his family are and what happened to him in future cencuses,the killicks and penfolds were all in and around kent early 1800s til when!!!i dont know aqs i have only just started research them. isabella smith and sister rebecca were 1890s to 1900s born and married in 1902 and 1925.both sisters married miller brothers!big age difference between sisters and bros though wasnt there?i will try and dig up some more info.cathayb jamajo.do i know you from anywhere else.i keep thinking your my friend from romanygenes sue day but i know your not but you seem very knowledable and i feel i should know you but just cant place you at the moment.cathayb
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as my name is birch i expect you realise my main line in my rather large tree is BIRCH.NOW THE BIRCHES DIDNT GO MUCH TO KENT EXCEPT ONE that i know of that is ellen birch who married joshua cooper.they split divorce or not married anyway and he married louisa birch. they would be around the 1880 1890s together i would think.apart from knowing they are relatives of mine i no nothing more than what i have put here.i am in touch with their present day reliatives but other than this i dont know.oh yes i do louisa dad was henry birchb.1839 and her mother was either catherine westcott or alice dymond.we dont know which as catherine died soon after louisa was born and alice was also in co hoots with henry by then. this is just to put cat among the pidgeons so to speak!as the purpose of this hunt was to connect kent/lodon/devon roms.louisa and joshua cooper lived in kent i do know.henry louisas dad was born in devon.
i ma still looking for these?any ideas anyone?
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isabella smith born 1883 married james miller (hawker)1902 and her sister rebecca born 1898 married henry miller 1923.these were london and kent smiths.there are penfolds and coopers(john)in this line too.
these are the smith family and millers i am looking for.cathay
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This is Rebecca Penfold and family in 1841, in case they connect somehow with yours -
HO107/1045/11 Folio 17 Page 28
Gumshall? Shere, Surrey
George Penfold 55 Tanner All born in county
Mary 55 Y
John 25 Labourer
Samuel 15
Rachel 15
Rebekah 12
Hannah 11
1861 RG9/442 Folio 13 Page 21
Reigate Foreign, Surrey
Mary Penfold widow 71 Dressmaker Dorking
Rebecca 32 Dressmaker Shere
This seems to be the same Killicks in 1861 -
RG9/881 Folio 76 Page 1
Northfield Road, Henley on Thames, Oxfordshire
Eleanor J? Killick wife 31 Wife of a papermaker Henley on Thames
Walter W 15 Papermaker Shere
James 14 Scholar Shere
William 12 Scholar Upottery Devon
+ lodger Helena Shennan 71 ... Annuity Henley on Thames
Would this be Patience Gess and family?
1871 RG10/2120 Folio 136 Page 56
Caravan, St Andrew, Devon
Henry Gess 35 Travelling Brushseller? Lee Kent
Charlotte 32 Plymouth Devon
Elizth A 14 "
Joseph 12 "
Charlotte 10 Guernsey
Elizth 8 Plymouth
Henry 6 "
Eliza 4 "
Patience 2 "
John 8mo "
+ boarder John Harris 20
A Smith family also in a caravan -
Henry (26 Traveller Norfolk?) and Eliza Smith (21 Yarmouth?) + children Edward (2 Plymouth) and Emma (5mo Plymouth)
Marriage -
Henry Gess and Charlotte Penfold December 1855 Plymouth 5b 476
Christopher Penfold and Patience Guest Sept 1864 Plymouth 5b 466
dont worry about the penfolds or gess in this quote.its the killicks i am looking for.
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Is it Jesse's Killicks you are after? or is there another branch of connected Killicks? -
1901 RG13/624 Folio 624 Page 61
Walton Street North Cottages, Walton on the Hill, Surrey
Jesse Killick 29 General Labourer Tadworth
Emily 26 Walton on the Hill
Edith 3 Tadworth
+ boarder Frank Nurse 26 Carpenter Notting Hill
1891 RG12/542 Folio 42 Page 16
Tadworth Cottages High Road, Banstead, Surrey
Thomas Killick 50 General Labourer Tadworth
Kate 50 Kent Penshurst
Laurance 21 General Labourer Tadworth
Jesse 19 General Labourer "
Kate 11 School "
Alice 9 " "
Thomas 6 " "
Julia 2 "
1881 RG11/756 Folio 38 Page 18 Tadworth Banstead Surrey
1871 RG10/795 Folio 34 Page 19
Banstead, Surrey
Thomas Killick 26 Bricklayers Labourer Surrey Banstead
Kate 26 Kent Penshurst
Laurance 1 Surrey Kingswood
Marriage -
Thomas Lawrence Killick and Kate Murrell Butcher December 1869 Reigate 2a 219
1861 RG9/418 Folio 12 Page 21
Banstead, Surrey
Thomas Ayling 48 Ag Lab Chelsea Pensioner All born Banstead
Mary A 51
Julia Killick unmar 22 Servt
George " 18 Ag Lab
Thomas " 16 Ag Lab
Henry " 13 Ag Lab
Ruben? " grandson 1
Marriage - Mary Ann Killick and Thomas Ayling Sept 1859 Reigate 2a 212
1851 HO107/1592 Folio 31 Page 14
Banstead, Surrey
John Killick 59 Pauper Ag Lab Chipstead
M A 41 Banstead
J son 15 Ag Lab "
J dau 12 Scholar "
G son 9 Scholar "
T L son 6 "
? son 2 "
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oh my w2ord i cant believe it.you found the ones i have been looking for.emily who married jess was a penfold!!fasther william penfold who married catherine penfold. jess later became know as a king of the gypsies.oh i am so happy.jess the son of thomas and katenee butcher.oh brilliant. now edward killick born 1822 who had a son amos who was in surry prison in 1881.thats all i know about them i am afraid but they do connect with me along the way.i have got more from this hunt then i ever thought possible thank you so much.killicks i know started off in kent but were often in surry and they didnt do the normak gypsy trades.they were publicans and odd things like that.but they were written about in surry sometime as quite famous gypsies.it would be wonderful to find them married into any of the other names we have been researching.cathayb thanks again.
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do you want anything from Cornwall or Sussex?
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or possibly Leicestershire?
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Well done CatOne, good work i couldnt find them ;D ;D
Sue :) :)
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Hi guys ...
I'm back ;D but now have to read 18 pages :o :o :o :o ..Blimey .... ;D
deb
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my word.what you doing to me.this absolutely fantastic.i thought my family were just devon,somerset,hampshire,dorset.then i started to break into kent and london and look what you have all done.my tree will cover the worls i f i am not careful???we have already taken in aussie on this hunt??if you really want to continue.we are still looking for edward killick as over the page,then we have leicester and cornwall and sussex if you have found any with my names toni?and if you really want knock down my biggest brick walls i have two of em??merrily cooper married isaac joules/joles/jewells/joles in wiltshire in 1803. we have a suspicion that merrily born 1873 might connect to our other coopers and the big brick wall is henry birch.b1839.we think his mother is charlotte as we can find who we think is him in 1851 in plymouth with her as a widow and he says on his marriage cert 1st that his father is william birch and 2nd marriage his father is henry birch.now i have all the info on him after 1851 so dont bother with that but his family always moved back and forth therough kent,hampshire and devon!louisa who married joshua cooper in the 1890(2nd marriage for both was his daughter by one of the marriages.i did mention her earlier so will find it and post.go for it if you want.of and there is still james achett/orchard b.1825 devon found in kent or surry 1841 with moses penfold.cathayb
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as my name is birch i expect you realise my main line in my rather large tree is BIRCH.NOW THE BIRCHES DIDNT GO MUCH TO KENT EXCEPT ONE that i know of that is ellen birch who married joshua cooper.they split divorce or not married anyway and he married louisa birch. they would be around the 1880 1890s together i would think.apart from knowing they are relatives of mine i no nothing more than what i have put here.i am in touch with their present day reliatives but other than this i dont know.oh yes i do louisa dad was henry birchb.1839 and her mother was either catherine westcott or alice dymond.we dont know which as catherine died soon after louisa was born and alice was also in co hoots with henry by then. this is just to put cat among the pidgeons so to speak!as the purpose of this hunt was to connect kent/lodon/devon roms.louisa and joshua cooper lived in kent i do know.henry louisas dad was born in devon.
louisa birch to joshua cooper.
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Found Laurance's marriage but can't find his wife pre 1891 :-\
1901 RG13/624 Folio 65 Page 15
Meadow Walk, Walton on the Hill, Surrey
Lawrence Killick 31 General Labourer Tadworth Surrey
Ada 25 london NK (Birth registration is 1875 Kensington)
Bessie 2mo Walton on the Hill
+ boarder Benjamin C Stevens 21 Wheelwright Sussex Newhaven
Marriage - Lawrence Killick and Ada Annie Rasey June 1900 Reigate 2a 389
Thomas and Kate in 1901 -
RG13/578 Folio 51 Page 12
Banstead, Surrey
Thomas L Killick 56 Bricklayers Labourer Tadworth Surrey
Kate 58 Penshurst Kent
Thomas 16 Grocers Errand Boy Tadworth Surrey
Julia 11 "
Julia's birth was registered as Julia Frances and theres this marriage -
Julia F Killick Sept 1918 Epsom 2a 60
Groom - Albert Henry
Kate in 1901?
RG13/648 Folio 127 Page 6
Fairlawn, Croydon, Surrey
Emile S W Johnson 42 Retired Civil Servant Oxford
Minnie 30 Sydenham
Clarice M 9 Windsor
Kate Killick 22 Genl Domestic Tadworth Surrey
Regards
Cat :)
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Cathay:
I've found PENFOLD while researching the dreaded LUFF and gave debusa the info. If she hasn't forwarded to you, please remind her to do so.
Don't recall any more about it, sorry. Wasn't among the FHC films I went through last weekend....
Good luck!
dont forget debsusa
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isabella smith born 1883 married james miller (hawker)1902 and her sister rebecca born 1898 married henry miller 1923.these were london and kent smiths.there are penfolds and coopers(john)in this line too.
and these.these are all recaps i hope you remenber them from a few pages back.cathay b
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do you want anything from Cornwall or Sussex?
or possibly Leicestershire?
is that a no then?
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no toni its not a no!!i do have a maria ?married a riley smith birch up country.something to do with ann65.but thats all i know.i def have birch cousins in co.durham and 1st cousins at that.if its birches anywhere is okay.i have a henry birch in cornwall still living and i have no idea how he connects but he does.i have a very very big tree as i am sure you all realise bynow so there are always twigs and branches to chase.if you can find joules/coopers/taylors/birches/ or even a sarah davis/davey/born gloscester 1823 approx married robert hughes honition devon(matilda and i have been chasing after her now for about 3 years well go for it.but no pressure you have all done me really proud.goin spend the next 2 or 3 years putting all you have got into my tree.oh and any in sussex is fine too.have romanies in the family will roam thats for sure.cathayb
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I see Amos Killick was born 1854 Brighton according to 1881 census, could this be him in tents, enumerated as KELLY, with the Lee families in 1861 -
Amos Kelly 6 nephew Brighton
Amos Lee 58 Cutler Chatham Kent
Susan 64 Kent ....street
Derliges? nephew 14 Apprentice Milton? Nr Gravesend
Other Lees in tents - Alexander and Delayne Lee and family, Alfred and Deborance? Lee and family, Isaac and Lydia Lee (all cutlers and hawkers)
Rochester St Margaret, Kent
RG9/477 Folio 66 Page 30
In 1871 hes with Lees again (William and Derliges/Diogenes), using the Lee surname.
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Or, in 1841 theres an Edward and Priscilla Killick plus children Amos, Mary, Richard and Jane, but Amos is aged 15 :-\
Tonbridge Wells, Kent
HO107/463/7 Folio 7 Page 7
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Cathay dont know if this is the Isaac and family you are after, let me know please :)
1891 RG12 / 1886 / 95 / 8
Sue :)
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yes my dear that is part of the family.that is the grandson and his family of merrily/morella/merry cooper born1773 and isaac joles b.1772 !!!i know its a tall order as merrily died in 1827 in yatton somerset.but i am looking for HER siblings!!!!
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in 1881 amos was definately in prison!!!his dad married cinnemata or amenetta.but i have nt been able to find them.what a name for the girl?
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you clever thing you.thats the edward killick i am looking for perants and his siblings.he was born 1822 but had left home by then!great.his son was called amos b.1853 and another son edward born 1856.amos def in prison 1881.amos was born in brighton.edward married one of those funny names i just mentioned(edward 1822 that is.)cinemata or armenta or something like that.its thought she died sometime before 1881.
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i'd need some names in order to search these areas
sorry
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I see you mentioned Wiltshire for Isaac and Merrily so what about this one
1841 HO107 / 1186 / 20 / 1 / 4
Cant make out occ so it may be wrong :)
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toni, birch anyone with a traveller type occupation and orchards/birchs in cornwall.thanks i got no dates cause i havent found them yet.only heard of them from other people but riley smith birch is a liky name.and william/robert/nelson/alfred/joseph/are very common in the family.cathay
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eeek back again ...and now am completely lost having read all the info ...
cathay ..How great everyone has been ... you have sooooo much stuff to expand on :D
okay ..so we are looking for a marriage of Amos or edward Killick to a Cinnematta? around what year?
deb
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jamajo.i dont know if these are anything to do with us or not.i would be more inclined to think they would be stopping with some coopers.i will have to study them next week when hunt is over. where are you debsusa.still reading? ah there you are debs.its been a great hunt hasnt it?i got about 2 to 3 years work here i think just loading it into my tree.yes if you could find as much on those killicks as possible i will be everso pleased.cathayb
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acctually debs,cause your now my good friend and you have just had a little holiday.i thought you might have stacks of energy and a clear mind and would like to put all this in some sort of order for me???LOL LOL hehehe ;D ;D ;D ;Dwe have covered so many different families havent we?i know they are all connected but now with the info we need a volunteer to connect them!!!!!????LOLif you could pop over from usa for a few months you could even load them in my computer for me?and maybe visit a few parishes just to check all the facts cause i do like proof!!!!
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er does this marriage licence help ?
17 May 1735 William Birch bachelor weaver
Sarah Overington spinster
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Cathay have we had this before? Orchards in Cornwall :)
1871 RG10 / 2248 / 84 / 19
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sorry debs.edward born 1822 first child born amos 1853 in brighton but edward was from kent,edwards 2nd child was called edward and was b.1856.amos was def in prison in the 1881 cencus in either surrye or suffolk? i dont know a lot more about them except a cousin of theirs who we have already found married a catherine penfold!her dad was william penfold.
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the marriage licence will be great for future investigation. no we havent had those orchards in cornwall before at least not on this hunt.i will go look at them.cathay
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Eliabeth Orchard m. Philip Heller 23 Feb 1826
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Can anyone make out what is written at the bottom of the original census in 1871?
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John Birch m. Ann Tiddy 13 jan 1830 Kea
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one for Deb
Thomas Bennets (Bennatts) m. Frances SPARGO 31 Dec 1822 Kea
oh the Elizabeth Orchard marriage was at Kenwyn
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bulls eye jamjo.your a star.that family is in my line and i suspect matildas.you have now given me some more siblings.job was born in owford so that brings into play the oxford orchards with our devon crowd.thank you.please look for a james b.1825 devon in 51 onwards.thanks.
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debs i never nticed you had spargos in your tree!i got 4 cornish ones in mine!!!related to me so theres another tie between you and me!thanks toni
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my spargo elizabeth,william and children nicholas and edmund.does that mean frances spargo is to do with me too?
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starting a new page?
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James in Wiltshire, what do you think ::)
1861 RG09 / 1606 / 68 / 13
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Cathay
;D ;D ;D ;D you are very funny ...me put this lot in order ... err I don't think so LOL ;D ;D
I think I need to go back to page 1 and start again :P
ooo just seen other posts while I am typing this ... yes ..I have spargos from Cornwall but strangely they are on my dad's side (Middleton) and not my mum's side (penfolds) :o
deb
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there was one on your hunt Deb your first hunt just the one,
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Cathay if that was your James in 1861 maybe one of these are him in 1871
RG10 / 2357 / 82 / 3
RG10 / 2358 / 16 / 24
Sorry brain going, getting confused i think ;D ;D
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there was one on your hunt Deb your first hunt just the one,
but i cant find it now! going to go to bed and see if the olympics are on, need something to send me to sleep got an early start on thee morrow
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that james orchard i know his perantage and off spring etc., but he was born in wiltshire and so were his perants so i dont think this is him.the one i am looking for was definately born in devon and appears in kent in 1841 and i havent got him after that. night night toni,pleasant dreams.
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Well hope this is him then Cathay, theres lots of Orchards living next to him and the years right ;D
1891 Cornwall RG12 / 1816 / 40 / 29
Fingers crossed ;D ;D
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that might well be him.i shall check it and maybe look for a birth on the igi.thanks.
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Cathay
Do you have Edward Killick and Cinemata/annmata?? on any census .... do you have any of their children's birth certs ?
Toni ..Blimey how do you remember all of this stuff ...I can't remember a Spargo with my Penfold hunt ... :o 8)
deb
eekkk they are not letting me post :-\
this is my message :
An Error Has Occurred!
The last posting from your IP was less than 30 seconds ago. Please try again a few minutes later. ::)
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Deb ive had problems with it being slow and taking ages to post ???
Right im off to bed Cathay but will be back in the morning. Nite all :) :)
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Just found this on NA: :-\ all the names ...Penfold, Birch, Cooper and Killick
North Devon Record Office B723/OHA56 2002
These documents are held at North Devon Record Office
3 disks
Contents:
Frank Morgan, Williton, Somerset
Born Bitton 1917, family background, school, errand boy for Allied Supplies, Maypole Dairy Co, home circumstances, call-up, lazy eye, Mr. Sharkey, joining Royal Marines, meeting wife Vera, excursions to London and Blackpool, Marines in Plymouth, Scapa Flow, Orkney Islands, Old Iron Duke, establishing Naval base on Hoy, promotion to Lance Corporal, Guardian Angel, promotions, duties, demobed 1946, wife's wartime employment and TB, Ern Bryant, buying Luxborough shop, the Miss Scotts, Post Office, early love of West Somerset, contents of shop, gypsies, Birches and Penfolds, butcher, queue for paper, sanitation, 22 years at Luxborough, looking to move, local connections, making changes to shop, Michael Thorne, Cecily Cooper's book, fund raising, Church, Rev. Jenoure, pressing for Church Council, taking service, deputy churchwarden, starting children's service, Mr. Barfield, Rev. Jenoure's retirement, standing in for vicar, becoming full churchwarden, Martin Langdon and Arthur Tarr, closure of Luxborough Chapel, preacher Sammy Coles, Beulah Chapel, Heath Poult, Royal Oak, Sixpenny Hops, Ernie Slade, main landowners - Crown Estate, Sir Edward Malet, Forestry Commission, farm ownership, Malet family, Chargot Luxborough Industries, forestry, first television set, closure of sawmills and blacksmith's, local working families, raising niece Brenda, Alice Taylor, Son Guy, Dr. Atkins, Dr. Hardman, Newman family, 1947 and 1963 winters, Donald Howe, thaw and floods, Lynmouth Flood, Herbie Howe and Farmer Dascombe's old sayings, parish lantern, West Somerset Foxhound's whist drive, live and let live, Rachel Reckett, Mr. Westcott's wooden leg, Capt. Ronnie Wallace, hunting, the Post Office, telegrams, working day and conditions, fighting for electricity, Probus and Rotary clubs, founding Williton Hospital's League of Friends, Brabazon Society, League of Friends, now life president, changes, hospital, Billy Fry, Dr. Fred Killick, long term patients, building Brabazon room, move to Williton, running large post office, British Legion, Exebridge cottage, making most of the years, the importance of doing good, Royal Maundy Award, MBE, doing his best, hospital memories.
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Night Jamajo ;D sllep tight
Cathay ...we need to start a new thread to follow this ...we are on page 21 ... can you do it ...or should I...
deb xx
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Or, in 1841 theres an Edward and Priscilla Killick plus children Amos, Mary, Richard and Jane, but Amos is aged 15 :-\
Tonbridge Wells, Kent
HO107/463/7 Folio 7 Page 7
that my dear is all i have!that is edwards perants.he was born in 1822 and had left home by this 1841 cencus.his first child amos was born in 1853 and they think his wife was dead before 1881.amos was in jail in the 1881 cencus in either suffolk or surrey.a daer old soul in her 90s gave me this info?
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oh sorry jamajo.nighty nighty,sleep tight.
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oh yes would you start a new thread i have no idea we even had to do it.let alone how?how do i get back to it after?
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are you there debs? ??? :-\
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yep ...backe again
I will start a new thread and post the link here ...hold on a sec okay
deb x
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i am hanging on............................can i let go yet...............oh help.......i'm slippen.............i'm getting silly again.......it means i'm getting tired............have you done it yet???.......how will i know????......
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Cathay
hang in there ...here it is;
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=320103.msg2009002
see you there
deb xx