RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: bhaven on Monday 04 August 08 16:46 BST (UK)
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I am looking for Robert KIpling Crump b.1902 & his mother Elizabeth Ann Crump b1870 in England.
I recently found they had sailed from Liverpool to Montreal in 1910 and was in the 1911 census for Selkirk ,Manitoba as follows:
28 98 Crump Eliza F Boarder W Nov 1870 40 1901
29 98 Crump Robert M Boarder S Oct 1902 8 1901.
I have tried to find them since but so far not successful. I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction to find out what happened to them since. There are about 10 in Manitoba directory.
I am also struggling with why she would leave her family in Yorkshire as a widow with a small child to go to Manitoba. She was a teacher.
Jean
Ontario
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If they were going to stay with someone, it might say on the passenger list.
National Archive Canada - Passenger Lists
(Not transcribed, but they are free) Ship - Virginian arriving 1910
http://tinyurl.com/6gr4qb
Last name: Crump
First name: Elizabeth
Year of departure: 1910
Departure port: Liverpool
Ship name: Virginian
Destination country: Canada
Destination port: Montreal
Travelling with: Robert Crump
1911 Census
(just to help others when searching)
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=41443
Janice
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You might also want to check out the Manitoba Vital Statistics site.
http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php
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The site is down again, Janice >:( ::) Oh, wait...Now it's working...
This would be a guess right now, but the massive migration into the west probably created a large demand for educators...Importing form Great Britain would help fill the need...Also there were many rural schools due to the large rural/farming population....
I would say she was a brave person to have crossed the ocean with a young son, looking to start a new life in Canada !...
It's hard to find someone after the censuses...but I'll keep my eyes peeled for them....
J.J.
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Thanks Janice and J.J. She must have really wanted a new life to take such a step as a widow with a child. In the census they were boarders with a family but I don't see a connection there. Does anyone know if there are cemetery records on line for the Selkirk area?
Jean
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We have little online as far as cemetery transcriptions, but the MHs has done many towns and charges a small fee for a lookup...I'l get that url for you...
However, I just peeked at the 1911 census, and it says Selkirk,
Parishes of St. Clements and St. Peters east of Red River
So I don't think it is Selkirk the city, but Selkirk, the town?
East Selkirk Village is located in the Rural Municipality called St. Clements ...and
is directly across the Red River from Selkirk...which would be east of the Red
River...think that is how I read it
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Yes, I think that should be right as here is St. Peters church...R.M St Clements
http://www.rmofstclements.com/History.htm
http://www.rmofstclements.com/index.htm
You could write to see if they have any history of their schools & teachers
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Well, it seems it could have been anywhere in the municipality of St. Clements....
I guess it would be an Anglican church...?
The St. Clements cemetery lists are on this page...
http://www.mbgenealogy.com/index.php?page=r-s
The order form is halfway down the page
http://www.mbgenealogy.com/index.php?page=cemetery-transcriptions
( she may have remarried or moved, though, so....)
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Here is another site to keep an eye on.
Canada GenWeb Cemetery Project
http://cemetery.canadagenweb.org/MB/index.html
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http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~abwcobit/Data/SD/1989/1989EdmontonPage4.html
- 1989 there was an obituary in the Edmonton Journal for Crump, Robert K. - you can contact the people on this site for a copy.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~abwcobit/Data/Books/Hendersons/1943/Images/370.jpg
- there's a Robert Crump in the Edmonton directory of 1943.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~abwcobit/Data/Books/Hendersons/1920/Images/310.jpg
- he may have been there from 1920?
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Thank you everyone. What a great help. That would be my Robert Kipling Crump I think. Will go to those sites right now but wanted to let you know I appreciate your help very much
Jean
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Possible death registration for Elizabeth Crump in Manitoba on the Vital Statistics website:
Elizabeth Harr Crump died Aug 7, 1926, aged 54 . Death registered in Virden, Manitoba. Reg no. 1926 - 038049.
Copies are $12 from Vital Statistics. They take ages to process requests though, even when it's just a photocopy needed and all other info provided (last request I made took over 2 months to receive).
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Thank you, I wonder if that is her? Her name was Elizabeth Ann Crump but I have seen it Eliz a, Eliza etc. I suppose if I find the cemetery then may get more info on her. I have sent for Elmwood Cemetery lists as there was a Crump named. I wonder why Vital Statistics take so long?
Jean
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Not sure why they take so long... I get info from Australia more quickly than Manitoba!
There were only a small number of other Crumps listed in the Manitoba database. It is also worth checking other western provinces, as Winnipeg was the gateway all immigrants went through to the west. Many people stayed briefly in Wpg and then moved on.
I checked ancestry.com for Eliza and Elizabeth Crump and Robert Crump and variations of the last name. There are no interesting entries after 1911 in western Canada that match info you have provided. I thought there might be a border crossing record somewhere, as people travelled back and forth from Wpg to the US and Vancouver to Seattle.
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Be careful ordering from Manitoba vitstats, as they not only take a long time, they have doubled their prices....now 25.00 per transaction...
Also there was an Elizabeth in Brandon of the same age...and Brandon is closer to Virden, so that is not guaranteed to be the right person...and there are no guarantees or refunds for incorrect or unfound data...
have heard some complaints lately...one fellow spent 75.00 and received nothing....so am passing it on..
I am happy that we all have access to this information, but their great database in the beginning has gone belly up lately, and the raising of prices doesn't seem to suit the lack of response lately...
.J.J.
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Thanks again, I have found Robert K. Crump her son died in Edmonton 1989 so waiting for printout of that. I suppose its possible she returned to UK or went with son to Edmonton. I am surprised that she even left Uk widowed with an 8 yr old. Must have been some incentive.
Jean
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Thanks for warning J.J. Will keep that in mind.
Jean
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Hmm their website still says $12.
Agree about the service from Manitoba Vital Stats- I have received better service from many other offices around the world (can't think of one offhand that is so slow). However, I have always received what I requested. I was a bit miffed they cashed my cheque right away and then made me wait 8 weeks though! When I called at the 8 week mark, the woman said it could take another month, but I received my requests the week after that.
Another source to try if you are near a Canadian public library is the Henderson directories. I find them very helpful in locating people after 1911 and tracking their movements. She and Robert may not be in there if they stayed in rural areas though.
Perhaps a research request to the Manitoba Genealogical Society might help. They have cemetery indexes and obituary indexes, that sort of thing, that may be helpful to you.
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I have located engagement and wedding or Robert Kipling Crump in the Winnipeg Free Press in 1942 to Helen Sinclair Flett.
If you pm me I can email to you
Bob
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Be careful ordering from Manitoba vitstats, as they not only take a long time, they have doubled their prices....now 25.00 per transaction...
Also there was an Elizabeth in Brandon of the same age...and Brandon is closer to Virden, so that is not guaranteed to be the right person...and there are no guarantees or refunds for incorrect or unfound data...
have heard some complaints lately...one fellow spent 75.00 and received nothing....so am passing it on..
I am happy that we all have access to this information, but their great database in the beginning has gone belly up lately, and the raising of prices doesn't seem to suit the lack of response lately...
.J.J.
I don't think Manitoba is any better or worse when compared to the delivery time of any Vital Stats office in Canada. I recently ordered my father's birth certificate from Ontario and it took at least 6 weeks.
As for pricing, it costs more to purchase a certificate in the other provinces in Western Canada ($50 in Saskatchewan, $40 in Alberta and there might be an agency fee on top of that, $27-$50 in British Columbia).
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True re: pricing.... Guess I'm just peeved that they don't answer complaints, so I have to hear about them in p.m's
Although I can't really say that comparing bad to worse makes them any better.
Perhaps the comparison should be that Ontario has so much wonderful free information, so what is the problem in most of Western Canada?
::) ;D J.J.
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The lady who died in Virden was a "Mrs. Frederick Crump" from Wellington County Ontario....Her maiden name was Fisher and her forename is never once used in the Obit...Grrrrrrrrr... I hate that. Her brothers ( & sisters) are named, though, so got the surname from them...
Am still submitting onto the thread should anyone look for this person...Eliza Harr Fisher Crump....as I never had full notes and so scanned the obituary anyway, should anyone be searching...I have it on disc....J.J.
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I have found the Crumps I was looking for. Sent them lots of info but it seems they are not interested so that branch is closed to me. I always expect people will be as excited as I am to find their family history especially pictures but it doesn't always happen. Many thanks to all who helped.
Jean
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Awe, that is too bad...Yes this happens...Usually only a small percentage of people are interested...onse day they may be sorry they didn't acknowledge...Please mark completed on all your Crump posting then, by going in and modifying the subject lines...If you aren't sure where they are, just keyword "Crump" in the rootschat search, then put your username in the space provided...
J.J.
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There is a 1916 Manitoba census that might help
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I found a Robert Kipling Crump on the 1916 Manitoba census, although I did not find his mum.
He is living in Springfield Manitoba. I do not have a subcription to Ancestry.ca, so I can't see any further details but maybe SKS will do a look up for you.
Jaybird
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Thank you, I did get some response from the family asking for info. I sent pictures of grandparents etc. as they had no knowledge of their family. However, I haven't heard since. I am not sure if I have closed this correctly.
Hope so.
Thanks again, Jean
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You have to put complete on the first message of the set, otherwise you are right
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I have found the Crumps I was looking for. Sent them lots of info but it seems they are not interested so that branch is closed to me. I always expect people will be as excited as I am to find their family history especially pictures but it doesn't always happen. Many thanks to all who helped.
Jean
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Hi, the woman who married Frederick Crump was an Elizabeth Hair Fisher. If you wish more info please email me or post.