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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: margnip2 on Sunday 03 August 08 22:25 BST (UK)
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My Grandfather Philip Christopher Flynn was born at the end of 1899, his place of birth on his certificate is Swellen, County Cavan. My mother, Aunts and Uncles all have said he came from Virginia, Co. Cavan. Is Swellen in or near Virginia?
On the 1911 Dublin census it shows that the family moved about quite a lot as his father Patrick worked on the railway. On this census it also states that my G. Grandfather and G. Grandmother, Kate nee Donohoe came from Cavan. They had been married 13 yrs.
My problem is that I have not been able to find when and where they got married. I have searched the records in Dublin and (unless I could not see the wood for the trees), I could not find them.
Can anyone help
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Swellen Upper and Lower both in Urney civil parish, Cavan Poor Law Union.
Virginia is in Lurgan Parish, Oldcastle Poor Law Union.
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Thanks for that aghadowey.
I have now found a marriage record of what I think may be my G Grandfathers and mothers marriage. The date is, when cross referenced with the 1911 Dublin census correct. This is a church record that I found on a Cavan Genealogy site - www.cavan.brsgenealogy.com. There is not much more information apart from the names of both fathers of Kate and Patrick. Which in both cases is Philip. Also the names of the witnesses.
Kate is said to be living in Pullamore and Philips' address is M.G.W. Railway. Could anyone enlighten me as to Philips' address. Will look up Pullamore.
Will I be able to find a record of this in Dublin?
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MGW Railway is Midland Great Western Railway. This might be of interest since it gives a Cavan-Dublin link (under Conveyances):
www.libraryireland.com/UlsterDirectory1910/Belturbet.php
See www.thecore.com/seanruad for finding townlands in Ireland. Be sure to change default setting from exact match to search for part of a name.
Not sure what you mean "will I be able to find a record of this in Dublin?" What record are you hoping to find in Dublin?
If you are referring to the marriage record the actual certificate will list names of bride and groom, marital status, whether of full age, residence at time of the marriage, occupations, names and occupations of fathers, names of two witnesses, date and place of marriage and name of officiant.
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Thanks. Yes I was referring to the marriage cert. I have looked for the marriage cert before in Dublin, but had no luck finding it and although the record I found last night gives me a date it would have been nice if it had the name of the church on it.
Patrick Flynns worklife on the railways is an interesting one. When my grandfather was born Patricks occupation was as a Railway Employee. Using other birth certificates from Patricks other children he was a Railway Ganger, Railway Foreman, in 1907 he was a Ganger with N.G.W.R. But then in 1908 0n his daughters birth certificate he has put Farmer as his occupation. On the 1911 census he is again a Railway Ganger, but by the time my granddad got married in 1924 Patricks' occupation was put as a Railway Inspector.
From his marriage to his death the family lived in Co. Cavan, Co Meath.Co Roscommon, Co Galway till they settled in Dublin. He put his place of birth on the 1911 census as Co. Cavan, but as yet have found no record of his birth.
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Have made mistake as to the 1911 census. Patrick Flynn and his family were not in Dublin but Co Galaway :-[
This research can really send you in a spin ???
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If Patrick's family also moved around alot it's possible that the put Co. Cavan for his birthplace in 1911 census because he remembered living there from his earliest memories and thought that's where he'd been born.
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Sorry must not be making things clear :-[
Patrick Flynn and Kate Donohoe are my Great Grandparents. Patrick would have been born c 1861 and Kate would have been born c 1873.
My Granddad Philip Flynn was born 1899.
It is Patrick and Kate that I am trying to find out more about. On the 1911 census it says that they were both born in Co. Cavan.
Unfortunately I will not be able to visit Ireland now until next year and it is very frustrating as Patrick and Kate Flynn are proving to be very hard to find information on :(
But thank you for your help, much appreciated :)
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Even though you can't visit Ireland until next year, you can visit the web site of the GRO -> http://www.gro.ie/fees.htm. The Cavan office has been very helpful to me in the past. (Addresses and phone numbers at the bottom of the page.)
I suspect that the marriage record you found at the IFHF site also had a Parish/District included. That's a clue as to where Kate likely lived, since they probably were married in her Parish. You could request the civil marriage record from the GRO since you know the date. They're pretty good at searching. It may not get you more than you already have, but you don't know without seeing it. It might at least have their ages. Older records sometimes just say Full Age or something to that effect, but hopefully an 1898/1899 record will have the ages.
You could also try for Kate (Catharine's) birth in 1873'ish, father Philip, mother unknown, but it might be better to hopefully confirm the age from the marriage record first.
Regarding your mother, aunts and uncles... My father, aunts and uncles all swore that my Grandfather was from Ballinamore, Co Leitrim. I finally tracked down his birth record in Bawnboy, Co Cavan. My GGrandfather was a baker who also moved around quite a bit. There were 5 children born in Arda, Bawnboy, Crossdoney and Granard. Eventually the family settled down in Ballinamore, when my Grandfather was about 15, but he never actually lived there. He was working with an uncle on the family homestead in Garrymore. So don't let family lore get in the way. (btw, full disclosure, the GRO could not find a marriage record for my GGrandparents although I did find the church record info at IFHF.)
Good luck.
John
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One other quick thought... you might get a clue as to Kate's mother's name from the name of Kate and Patrick's oldest daughter. Not always, but it was a often used convention. The second daughter might be named after Phillip's mother. Just something to consider.
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Thanks for that jjcaffrey, never thought of sending off for the cert, have used the service before so shall send the form off.
The information I have from the IFHF is that the Parish/District was Cavan in Co Cavan.
The names of the two eldest Girls are Agnes and Lucy, so shall see if any thing comes from using those names.
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Okay, I sent off for a marriage certificate of Patrick and Kate based on the parish record I found on line. Result from the GRO in Roscommon is that they looked from 1890 - 1901 and found no record of this marriage.
So where do I go from here?
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At least I now have company in the club ;)
I started with the Superintendent Registrar in Cavan for my GGrandparents - no luck. I then found the church record through IFHF. I went back to the Cavan registrar with the date from the church record, and still no luck, although they certainly tried.
I'm not sure what to suggest. My next step is to try to touch the parish register to see what other clues might exist in the book. Perhaps there are notations or other connecting records that might help. Unfortunately, I don't get to visit Ireland as frequently as I would like, so it sits on my list of things to do.
John
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Thanks for your help, I am away for a few days now. I will have to try giving Cavan registery office a call when I get back.
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Okay, I sent off for a marriage certificate of Patrick and Kate based on the parish record I found on line. Result from the GRO in Roscommon is that they looked from 1890 - 1901 and found no record of this marriage.
So where do I go from here?
What are the full names of Patrick and Kate at the time of the union and where in the country do you beleive they married?
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Hi Marc, all I got from the www.cavan.brsgenealogy.com site was:
Husbands name Patrick Flynn, Wifes name Kate Donohoe. The names of their fathers, who were both called Philip. Witness 1 was James Harte, witness 2 Bridget Smith. Both were Roman Catholic. Patrick Flynn was from Cavan and Kate Donohoe was from Pullamore. They were married on the 13th Jan 1898 in Cavan.
On the 1911 census both Patrick and Kate have been put as coming from Co Cavan.
I do not know if these are the Patrick or Kate I am looking for. But it is the only record of a Patrick Flynn and Kate Donohoe that I have that fits date wise. My granddfather was born Dec 1899.
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Thought I might resurrect this one as I have a little more information.
On the 1901 census Patrick and Kate have two older children than my grandad. I had always thougth that he was the eldest child but it is not so. The two eldest children are Mary Flynn born c1892 and Peter Flynn born c1894. On the census it says that they were both born in County Cavan.
So Patrick and Kate would have been married before 1892, but even with this information I can still not find a record of their marriage. Of course I don't even know if they did get married in Cavan or within the Cavan county.
Any help would be much appriciated, thanks.
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Have you searched for the marriage in Irish civil registration index yet? if not, check for bride and groom separately then cross-reference results for match. www.familysearch.org
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Hi aghadowey, I think I have tried just about everything going googly eyed trying. Begining to think they never got married!
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Been a while, but still have not got much further with this. I have found out that my GGrandfather had been married before to an Anne Smith in 1889 hence the two older children. But I can still not find the marriage to Kate Donohoe on the Civil Registration, the closest is a record for 1897 but no Patrick Flynn on the page. Others on the page are 3 men and 5 women including Kate.