RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: nelwild on Friday 01 August 08 11:28 BST (UK)
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I have been researching my family tree for some time,and have long suspected that i might have some Romany or jewish ancestors scattered about it,and have just found some that sound like gypsy travellers.The lady in my tree is Kezia Goldsmith born Sheerness,Kent in 1853,her mother is Sarah Goldsmith born Ashford,Kent c1828,shes a clothes dealer on 1861 census,and a lodging house keeper on 1871(is that a gypsy occupation?).Kezia has several siblings,Moses b1855 sheerness,Diana b1851,Hoo,Kent, Aaron b1858,Sittingbourne,Kent and Thomas b1849 Faversham,Kent.I found a site that gives gypsy,traveller and itinerant records in kent and both Moses and Kezia appear on it.On the 1881 census Thomas is living in a caravan in Sittingbourne with Eliza Roberts b1851 Stockbury,Kent,servant and caravan sleeper or keeper,and her daughter Sarah b1879 Sittingbourne.Moses marries Deborah Johnson b c1860 Hastings,Sussex,wardrobe purchaser,with them on 1891-1901census are nephews Samuel,Aaron and George.The only Deborah on census that might fit is 1871 Deborah Johnson b1858,birthplace unknown,pauper inmate,Faversham Union Workhouse,with Thomas Johnson b1885 Woodchurch,Kent,and Elizabeth Johnson b1826 Wendover,Bucks.Aaron marries Sarah Annie Hughes b1860 Rochester,Kent in Canterbury in 1879,her father is Samuel Hughes b 1827,Cripplegate,East London occ hawker/general dealer/picture framer and dealer in pictures.His wife is Dinah unknown b1833 brighton and there other children are annie b 1860 rochester,samuel b1866 fav,phoebe b 1869 chatham.On 1881 census they are living in a travelling van in canal fields,gravesend.On 1901 census Samuel appears top be in Maidstone Prison,this is the only other entry i can find for him.If anyone knows anything about these families,however small, i would be very grateful,even if just to confirm that they were definatly travellers.many thanks.
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hullo my dear.well it definately sounds like they are gypsies/travellers.contrary to opinion gypsies will do any job where they can make a bit of money so dont worry too much about the occupations.you do find the roberts/hughes/johnson/names amonst travellers.i dont know about goldsmith but golding can be a travellers name and they often changed their names anyway!!!do you find they move about kent quite abit?if you find coopers,whites,penfolds,other hughes/johnson/parker/ayres/birch amongst them then you are really onto something.when you look at the cencus look at the other people stopping with them and on the forward and back page to the one you are on.you will often get clues from that.hope you find you can confirm either way.lokk forward to hearing what happens or turns up.cathayb
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welcome to Rootschat,
It certainly looks as if your family were travellers. It might be worth posting a link to this thread on the Kent board. I'm sure people there may be able to help you.
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To Cathayb and Bearcat,many thanks for the replies.Im sorry i havent replied sooner but i had trouble logging on the site;kept saying page couldnt be displayed.Ive had a look at some of the neighbours on the census,but,apart from a few exceptions,they havent revealed much.Most of them appear pretty settled and sedentary.If it hadnt been for the fact that a couple of them are down as being in travelling vans on the 1880 census,and some of the occupations,i probably wouldnt have realised that they might be travellers.A few things are quite intresting though.On the 1861 when Sarahs at 106 high st,sheerness,she has staying with her a Joseph Guess,b1811,rye,sussex and Diane Guess b1818 hythe,kent.Joseph is a hawker and both are described as visitors.Next door is old george yard,the residents of which are Adam Roberts b1853,hythe,kent,wife Prisilla,birthplace unknown,daughters diana,priscilla,sara a and julia,all born different locations in kent,mary ann white,charwoman b linsted and three kids,John ? and Phoebe? hawkers,and Isaac Easter,Eliza and kids mary and frank hunt.On 1871 Sarah is running a lodging house in sittingbourne,with 10 residents besides her kids.On the 1881 she has 32 residents.The names of the families stopping in caravans with her son thomas on 1881 are Stone,Harris,Rossiter,Baker and Beaney.There occupations are hawkers of brushes,general dealers,brickfield carters and labourers.Intrestingly on the 1881 Aaron Goldsmith and wife are at 10banks yard,sittingbourne and there immediate neighbour is Eliza Shilling,b1819,Wendover,Bucks and Thomas Johnson,Elizas son b 1865 Woodchurch,gen.lab.These are clearly the same people who were in faversham workhouse on the 1871 with deborah johnson,the lady who went on to marry moses goldsmith.Also,on the Gypsy,Traveller and Itinerant Kent Baptism records,it would appear that Sarahs father is Moses Goldsmith.I cant understand how its worded,but this is what it says;Moses Goldsmith b12 sept 1855 Sheerness,underneath is written Moses,Sarah then Kezia Elizabeth Goldsmith b30august 1853 sheerness,underneath is written Moses,Sarah.Also on same list is Hughes Diane Lydia,Henry,Emily b26 july 1898 HT milton,gravesend and Hughes ,Samuel Henry,Samuel Thomas,Jane Sarah b18 dec 1914 HT milton,gravesend.Like i said before,ive always felt there might be Romany and Jewish ancesters in my family,but this is the most compelling evidence ive found to date.Having said that,my dads dads side of the family,where i discovered these is very big and will probably take me a lifetime to research.Some other names i have in my tree that ive seen associated with travellers ayres,wells,beaney,chambers,hunt ,epps,smith,wood/s stanley,buckley,harris,herne as well as many others i cant recall.Occupations include tinman/smith blacksmith,farrier,costermonger,ostler,horsekeeper,dealer,ag.lab,gen.lab,chimney sweep,brickfield labourer/carter,brickmoulder,coke/lime burner,coal labourer,cement labourer,gunpowder mill workers plus a lot in the workhouses.All this is around the faversham/ospringe/boughton/milton/sittingbourne/ashford area of kent but some seem to have associations further afield and ive mostly only gone back to 1841 census.Sorry ive waffled on,but this is really fascinating to me.If you can help,or anyone reading can,id be really grateful.All the best.
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flippen hech.romanies or what.what more evidence do you need?you are 100%into romany family.ayres,beaneys,wells,hunts,smiths,woods,stanley,roberts,guess all these are in my family line and i am 100%rom with my husband living on a romany site in somerset.well thats not strickley tru!i am infact jewish but been with the roms for 36 years now.we are not that different from each other either i can tell you,i just noticed johnsons and whites aswell!i expect we might connect somewhere along the line.got any birches or coopers or hughes or taylors in your line by anychance.what about penfolds,orchards i could go on and on but you seem to have a fair few anyway.mine i must admit are mainly from the west country and hampshire and london,surry etc,but i do have a fair few in kent.i will pm you in a minute with my email address and we will see if we can connect in anyway.i think you also ought to post on http:/gypsiespassingthrough.wetpaint.com and romanygenes blank page you will find your family names and help from other romany researchers on both those sites.welcome to the family cathayb
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Cathayb,thanks for the latest reply,youll probably think im a bit stupid,but how do i get your email address;im just getting used to this site and how it works,not sure what PM is.The names that i mentioned are all in my tree on my paternal grandfathers side,but there doesnt appear to be a direct link between any of them,they are just names ive added as ive expanded the tree out to just over a 1000 people,some are quite distant and all seem fairly settled,although i thought them worth mentioning as they are known traveller names.The only ones ive found so far that definatly appear to be are Kezia Goldsmith and co.Having said that,and despite the fact that most of the relatives ive found so far seem settled,there is so much about my tree that doesnt quite add up.Perhaps if i tell you a bit about the geography and history of the town where i grew up,that might be a good place to start.Its called Faversham,and is a medieval market town about 10 miles west of Canterbury in Kent.Its always had strong links with Romanies and travellers over the centuries because of the market,and also,with it being the home of britains oldest brewery,Shepherd Neame,its surrounded by hopfields.And where theres hops,theres travellers.Many gypsy families settled in the town,and married in with locals.If you visit Faversham Cemetry,youll find dozens of beautifully tended graves inscribed with well known traveller names.It never occured to me that i might be connected until i started doing my tree,and even now i cant explain exactly why i feel it,ive just always had a sense that theres something slightly different to that side of the family,something i cant put my finger on,but like an old-fashionedness,or an invisible strand that stretches way back before modern day materialism to something much more fundemental.Does that sound a bit crazy?Like i said,id always put it down to a possible Jewish connection,what with my surname being a well known Jewish one.Ive had Jewish friends,including a Rabbi tell me i look Jewish,my dad even more so.The one thing i dont share with many Jewish people is financial prosperity;im as poor as a church mouse financially,but richly blessed in other ways.This lack of money is something i share with most of my ancestors.Other things about this side of the family that make me wonder is a tendency for same families to intermarry,aunts and uncles looking after siblings of other family members,large numbers of children,large numbers in the workhouse,lack of baptism,marriage,death cert and census entries in some cases,names and occupations.Ive gone on a bit again,but theirs so much i want to say.Im going off to look at my tree now to find a few people,will post back with them.One i can remember is my ggg uncle Peter Coppins,sometimes Cappen or Cappings,1851 and 1861 census,brickfield labourer,1871,costermonger with one son as his assistant,1881,brickfield labourer,1891,Canterbury Prison,he and his wife Ann had 22 children,although its thought some may have been illigitimate g children,a large number even for then.He and Ann both died at the same time in 1899.Something else ive remembered is when i started researching and was trawling rather than recording,i found a much closer connection to Kezia Goldsmiths husband Isaac Stone,but cant remember how i got there.Im pretty sure it was through my ggguncle Richard Jacob wife Louisa Fisher,a charwoman from Milton in Kent.Incidentally,on1891,their son Frederick was in Kent County Lunatic Asylum,age 16,which is very sad,though it may not have been insanity as apparently you could go there for all manner of things in those days.Thanks for taking the time and ill post again soon.
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the pm should come to you on a rootschat link.press it like you do to come back here when i post a message on here.when the page comes up it will say your name and message in the right hand corner.press on the message and it should come up for you too read.i will put another pm (personel message on incase you have lost the last link.if your still having trouble go to Http://gypsiespassingthrough.wetpaint.com in your web browser.i am on there in a big way and i can post my emails address on there so you will find me but you will need to join the site but its very good and free.i will write on here again later.your fisher lady may be related to me!!what i need are dates and names to start researching for your roms.cathayb
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Aaron marries Sarah Annie Hughes b1860 Rochester,Kent in Canterbury in 1879,her father is Samuel Hughes b 1827,Cripplegate,East London occ hawker/general dealer/picture framer and dealer in pictures.His wife is Dinah unknown b1833 brighton and there other children are annie b 1860 rochester,samuel b1866 fav,phoebe b 1869 chatham.
Hi all
I wonder if this could be Samuel's marriage;
Samuel thomas Hughes = Diana Hughes
Dec 1859 Sheppey Kent
2a 1129
of course only one of their children's birth certs could confirm this.
Would be nice to find a Penfold connection ;D
deb
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nielson have you got my personel messages to you yet?we will still post on here as debs usa has an intereset here as i have some penfolds in kent i would like to let you know about debs.i am looking for a link to the devon ones with them.i have just broke my mouse and need to go find another.using the laptop for this and i hate it.back soon.cathayb.nielson please email me at home email that i have given you in pms.i have sent you three.cathayb
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debs,i lost your email address in a computer crash.lost all my adresses.i will pm you with my email address ina minute.i have some stuff someone sent me on london penfolds and also on kent penfolds.i havent tied them to the devon penfolds yet.i dont think i can put attachments on here so you will need to let me have your email address before i can them to you.love cathayb neilwild,sorry i got your name wrong just now.have you got the pms i sent to you yet.please email me if you have.cathay. have i already asked but have you any golbys,or james,or penfolds,or birches,or taylors,coopers,in your line amongst all the others.cathayb
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Cathayb,im really sorry,ive tried sending a couple of messages but im blowed if i can get the hang of it,im justy going to have another go,also i couldnt get on the wetpaint link,nelwild.
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Hi Nelwild ...welcome ....
I have just tried Cathay's link and it doesn't work for me either :-\ you could google Passing through ...
hold on ..this may work ;
http://passingthrough.wetpaint.com/?t=anon
deb :)
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i got your pm debs.will send some stuff through in a minute.neil i get your messages asking if i got your messages.when you ask that question next time give me your home email address.in the meantime look at the top of your page on here.it should say welcome neilwild you have 4 messages allnew,press on messages and they should show..that link for passing through def works.i just tried it.you will have to join passing through to look at members and email them.tell you what i will post my address on their now.it will be under the heading whats new.look for cathayb.theres aload on there for snippets aswell so as you will know your on the right page.keep trying.cathayb
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anyone still around or have you given up trying to find passing through and my personel messages to you.cathayb
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Cathayb,ive been looking through my tree and on ancestry/Genes Reunited site to try and find a few things,ill post it here just in case then try the personal message next time.Ive got some of my Ayres ancestors,but they sound far too settled to be travellers.William Ayres b1790 living bethnel green,london, occ.weaver.birthplace unknown,first marriage Martha Robinson b 1790,place unknown,second marriage Mary Wells b1797 place unknown.Williams sons are william b shoreditch,london 1814.occ.furniture dealer,wife eliza cowley b1814 e.london.kids are eliza 1835,emily,1838,susannah,1840,elizabeth1842,frederick1846,mary1848,ann1850,henry1853,henrietta1855,george1858,edmond1861,all born east london.Williams second son is Henry b1817,,bethnel green,third is george b1821 bethnel green,he marries elizabeth robinson b1818 place unknown(another robinson)her parents are william robinson b1795 bethnel green,weaver,martha b1795 birthplace unknown.Georges kids are mary,1838,william,1841,george,1844,elastic cord maker,henry1846,elizabeth1862,all in bethnel green.George marries alice loring 1874,bethnel green,their kids are george 1891 who marries elizabeth watson b1890,place unknown,alice1892 who marries jack brown b1890 place unknown,alice1893 who marries frederick cassidy birthplace unknown,florence1898 who marries frederick adams b1898b/p unknown,dundonald b1900,ernest b1902,marries cissy wells(another one)b1897b/p unknown,hilda b1906,dot b1908,jenny b1910 all bethnel green.Elizabeth( 1862)marriesjames eldridge,b1859,bethnel green.packing case maker,kids hilda b1877,elizabeth who marries harry coveney b1885,james b1888,william1894,leonard1894. James eldridges parents robert b1828 b/g,shoemaker journeyman,mary slater b1830 place unknown'Robert eldridges father thomas was born norwich,mother unknown.Mary slater also married frederick chapman b1842 b/g.these sound far to settled to be travellers,and im sure that weaver wasnt a romany occupation,but you never know.The louisa fisher i mentioned earlier was born sittingbourne 1842,charwoman on 1861,on 1851 shes at crown yard,sittingbourne with father richard b1802,murston,brickfield labourer,mother jane coppings b c1823 faversham,charwoman.cant find a richard fisher that fits on 1841,and the only possibility for jane is jane coppins,b1826 faversham,living at st.annes cross pub,faversham with samuel smith b1801,hawker,martha smith b1797,john smith b1817, thomas weller b1761,labourer(still working at 80)andmary weller b1771.One of my main family lines is coppins,but it has many variations generally,and about five different spellings in my tree,including coppin,cappin,capper,copper,copping/s,.My gggg grandfather was a tinman/smith from high halden ,kent.On the 1841 he was daniel copping,but for the rest of his life till he died at 97,he was coppins,His wife hester staples was coppins through her married life,but copping on her death certificate.Hello to deb usa,what you mentioned earlier about the sheppey marriage looks possible,the goldsmiths had a sheppy connection,and on one census samuel hughes first name had been crossed out and replaced with paul thomas.Im off to do a bit more searching but will be back soon,bye for now.
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um not sure about those ayres at all.like you say far too settled.were they living in houses? go to the top of this page.can you see welcome nelwild?if you can does it then say you have 4 new messages or a least a number of messages?the word message should be in blue.click once ,left click and it should open your messages page.scroll down til you see cathayb and click on to open.if you and debs are still having trouble with passing through try this one in your web although i can get on it by pressing debs connection back a couple of posts.your wells and hughes look promising tell us more about them. http://passingthrough.wetpaint.com/?t=anon
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by the way are you nel or neil.male or female.sorry to be so thick cathayb
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hi cathay and nelwild
Nelwild ...the easiest way to PM anyone is to click on their name to the left ...eg: above cathay's picture or mine...you will then be on that person's profile ... scroll down a bit and you will see " send this Rootschatter a personnal message" ...click on that and start typing :)
other than that ... there is a little scrolly thingie underneath our pictures ...you can click on that too. If we are green (scrollie thingie :) ) that means we are on-line, if dark = off-line.
Cathay ... I managed to wrk my way around Passing Through ... thanks for that ...I didn't know it had gone into messaging etc ... I see matilda is there too :)
deb
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debusa,thanks for that,cathayb,how about this ancestor in my tree that i cant find on census,Joseph Locke,b1847,high wycombe,bucks.wife unknown,daughter louisa locke b1875,east london.
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debs.we have all been wondering where you were on passing through.matilda,tiggi.coleene,sue day from romany genes(i dont know her pass word on here,jax(jackie)jfc7980,irene colbert,still looking,oh loads and loads from here.its really good.there is a chat room and loads of pages and people will help each other with lookups etc.,quite abit about penfolds,smiths,smalls,orchards,hollands,stanleys,coopers.alot that went to america or aussie.i real;ly enjoy it.i have a scavenger hunt on here next week.i am not quite sure which line i am going to do yet.i was going to do golby/birch but i have just about wrapped them up today.nelwild has worked it out at last.hes on passing through now.are you going join?anyway as soon as i find a def link to nels romanies i will post it here.speak soon oh did you get what i sent you.i am still trying to find the tree i have on london penfolds.i dont know where i put it.christopher penfold from devon who married gess turns up in london.london penfolds start with a moses penfold who married a collinson.must go cathayb
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Hi cathay
i will sign up asap ...am going to the beach for a few days ... so will be back soon.
Which Chriopher married Gess? my great great uncle Christopher Penfold (brother of Thomas who married sophia Orchard) married Carnation Richards and then Mariah Boswell. Then only penfold marrying a gess that I have is Charlotte Penfold = Henry Gess..they were with the travelling showmen gypsies.
PS sorry to Hijack your thread , Nelwild ::) ;D
Cathay ..thanks got your emails ... :-*
deb
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it wasnt that one.i will have to check tomorrow as i havent found the bloody tree yet.i was putting stacks of stuff on my slave drive today which is in another computer drive and it takes ages to load up but i think i put the tree in there.old age dosnt come alone.i am having alot of senior moments!!!sorry.its in the same family you are talking about charlotte marrying henry but a generation on.patience gess he married i do know.have a good few days on the beach.i will have something here for you when you get back,will you miss my scavenger hunt next tuesday?cathayb. check your emails at home address nel.i have sent you joseph locks details.cathayb
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Cathayb,many thanks for info on joseph lock,he doesnt really look like a gypsy,but you never know with a name like lock,old family with welsh connections unless im mistaken,ive uncovered a few more things on goldsmiths etc,will post later as ive got to go out now.regards.
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i am not going to be able to do alot this week as i have suddenly come up on the scavenger hunt.but your welcome to join it.i will send a link cause kent gypsies will come into it.love cathayb
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Cathayb,ive made contact on GenesReunited with a direct descendent of moses goldsmith,hes only got about 63 people on his tree so far,but what hes given me has enabled me to progress a bit further.Moses Goldsmith was born in hellingly,e sussex in 1828,his wife was Sarah Stone b1828 in Sellinge or Ashford,Kent.On the 1841,he was in the union workhouse,parish of hellingly age 10,with brother William Goldsmith age 11.He died at the age of 30 and theres no further mention of him on the census.On the 1851,theres William Goldsmith b1831,Hellingly,Sussex,brickmaker,visiting Richard Stone b1824,Hythe,Kent,hawker,and Kesiah Stone (nee Goldsmith},b1817,Hellingly,Sussex.This Richard is almost certainly connected to the William Stone staying in a caravan next to Thomas Goldsmith on 1881.Next to Richard and Keziah at Kings Alley is Thomas Andrews b Edmonton,Middlesex,umbrella maker,Mary b1812,Ireland,John b1841,Chatham.I cant find any other reterence to William on census.On 1861,Richard Stone,b Canterbury(not far from hythe) Kezia Stone,b1810,Brighton(not far from Hellingly,see what you mean about making slight alterations)Both are hawkers,and staying with them is George Goldsmith b1846,Middlesex,London,also a hawker.On 1881,Richard Stone,b 1818,Hellingly(his wifes birthplace) Kezia Stone b1818,Sittingbourne(where many of her family lived)and Emma Clark b1853, London,Middlesex,niece,servant out of employ,all in a travelling van in Acre Road,Kingstone,Surrey.In the other vans their are William Cooper,b 1842,Long Ditton,wife Elizabeth b Woking,kids John 1864 Reigate, Harry 1868,Coombe,Caroline 1871,Kingstone,William 1873,Richard 1876,Rhoda 1878,all Kingston,all scholars.William and John are horsedealers.With them is Anne Botton,b1850,Maidstone,Kent,sister,widow,laundress,Elizabeth Botton,niece b1874,Leatherhead,scholer,Georgina b 1877,Leatherhead,scholar.Then Henry Taylor b1854,Maldon,hawker,Elizabeth b1855 maidstone,kent,hawker,Henry b1880 Farningham,Surrey.Then Charles Phillips b1841,Essex,hawker,Elizabeth b 1851,Middlesex,hawker, Walter b1873,chelmsford,Sophia Kenton,b1853,croydon,niece,Martha King b 1864 Canterbury,Kent.Then Job Davis b 1841,Wimbledon,hawker,Elizabeth b1853,Brighton,hawker,kids Elizabeth b1868 brighton,Job b1870,Esher,Leonard b1873,Epsom,Walter b1875,Esher,Amy b1877,Ripley.Then Elizabeth Stanley b sussex, hawker,William b1857,brighton,Alice b1864,gosport.Then Simson W Day,b1864,putney,smith,Emma G,b1857,horsham,Simson W b1878,Edith M b1880,Walter b1880,all Horsham,then Frederick Houndon b1846,kingstone,Sarah a b1847,east peckham,kent.Richard Yeardly tailor,b leeds,york.Ive listed these neighbours as theres names there that you mentioned earlier.Theres nothing conclusive on 1891 or 1901 for Richard and Kesia,so il go and do a bit more and post again later,regards.
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Cathayb,i forgot to mention on last post that on 1861,Richard and Keziah are in bell lane,bridge,ipswich.Cant find them on the1871,back soon.
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have you been getting my emails to your home address?do please use the link to go to the scavenger hunt on here.its my hunt and we are doing kent/surry/london gypsies.yours are def gypsies.i have found kezia batism in kent and quite a few gyposy goldsmiths.i will send them to you at abba.speak soon cathay.
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=319494.0 please look on this one for me. or go up to the topof this page.click on general,when there click to go to the common room and scroll down post until you find cathaybs scavenger hiunt
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Goldsmith family Kent - The Goldsmith family, Canterbury are one of the leading Gypsy campaigners in the UK. Related to me via Bakers/Perfect/Tomlin.
Have Baker/Lee/Rossiter/Penfold/Pettigrove trees - all intermarried. Kent 1700 to date - contact me if you would like more info.
Rita
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hello spursbird,id be very intrested, my email is email address removed by moderator - please use the secure Rootschat personal message system to exchange personal email addresses - thankyou ,look forward to hearing from you,many thanks,nel.
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HI MY GREAT GRANDAD THOMAS STEVENS A GYPSY WAS A PICTURE FRAME HAWKER FROM LONDON HE MOVED TO IRTHLINGBOROUGH NORTHANTS . IT IS VERY HARD TO FIND MUCH INFO BEFORE HIS MOVE TO NOTHAMPTONSHIRE
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I have a gypsy Sarah Ann Roberts staying with aunt and uncle Diana and Joseph Gess in 1861 in Sittingbourne. I never knew Gess was a Romany name lol. Glad it is. Someone has posted on this thread about Adam and Priscilla Roberts on the 1861 at Old George Yard, Sittingbourne. They were my lot, and Sarah's parents.
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gess/guess are well known travellers especially in the west country and around london.they married into the penfolds i know.some of them were show folki and some were just normal travellers.i have some in my family line.
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Hi to all those reseaching these lines. I am related to the Goldsmiths, my gf being Thomas Goldsmith son of Moses Goldsmith and Sarah Stone. Nel it was Kezia Goldsmith who married Richard Stone. Rebekah, Diana (sister of Sarah Stone) and Joseph Gess are my great Aunt and Uncle. I think Joseph's father was Henry Gess.
Best wishes
Brenda in Australia
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and henry gess is in my family!!!!!he was a show person i think.i will have to look him up again.anyway hi all my distant relatives!!!!
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So are we related Cathay? Wonder if thats why we both speak our minds lol, we must get the gene from someone.
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i guess we are dear.very distantly though.i will put yours and mine in tribal apges and see how close we are to each other.my email addie is (I WILL PM YOU) if you want to know more about my guess connections.love cathay
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Hi ;D
I'm related tooooooooooooo LOL
my my gg grandfather, Thomas Penfold (married Sophia Orchard ) had a sister Charlotte Penfold who married Henry Gess.
Hi Cathay :D ..Hope you are well!
deb
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hi cousin.its ages since i heard from you and today 3 folki who ae related to me on different threads have all contacted me so i have been very very busy.well i am blowed!!!!love to you and yours.i have lost my photo of henry penfold nd ocean penfold nee hughes in a computer breakdown.can you send me a copy?i will pm you my new email address.love cathay
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Hi Cathay
I also had a computer breakdown but I still have a copy of the photo which I will scan for you.
I have not heard from Chris in a long time ..I want to order her book! Found her email addy on Wetpaint ...which is new to me!
love backatcha
deb :)
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Hi to all, I made a mistake on my post above, Joseph Gess's father was Michael.
At Ashford St. Mary, Kent, on 9th Nov. 1840, Diana Stone of full age, spinster of North Street, daughter of Thomas Stone, hawker married Joseph Gess, of full age, hawker, bachelor of North St., son of MICHAEL Gess (not Henry), hawker. Witnesses Henry Elgar and William Elgar.
In 1861 Diana 45 says she was born Hythe and Joseph 50, says born Rye.
In 1871 at Gladstone Terrace, Sittingbourne, niece Sarah A Roberts is staying with Diana and Joseph, she is the daughter of Adam Roberts and Priscilla Frances nee Stone. Priscilla is the sister of Diana, my ggm. Sarah, Richard, William, Thomas and Eleanor.
Hope the above is helpful.
Brenda
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ah well that lets me and debs out of the equation then.good luck with the hunting.dont forget the photo debs.love cathay
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Hi to all,
Does anyone know the relationship of the elgars to the stones, henry elgar was also a witness at the marriage of moses goldsmith to sarah stone in 1847 the other witness being john reed,
many thanes, shane.
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Hiya cousin Shane, about Henry Elgar could he be just a member of the church and not related at all ? I have other instances of that happening, but it is possible that John Reed was acquainted at least with the Stones or Goldsmiths as I seem to recall you knew there were traveller Reeds. You would need to see whether Henry Elgar regularly witnessed marriages to confirm or not.
Hope all the family are well Shane and my best wishes to them and of course to all researchers on this topic.
Brenda
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reed is definately a travellers surname!!!whether yours was or not i dont know but mary horner of romany road knows something of the reeds.contact her.she will be delighted.
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HI Brenda, were all fine thankyou, hope the move went well and alls well with you and the family.
It could be a church witness as ashford and peasmarsh are not that far away i suppose, thanks for input as allways.
shane.
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If my memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall that Henry ELGAR witnessed many marriages at Ashford parish church thus was possibly the parish clerk or similar.
Casalguidi :)
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Hi All,
In addition to this thread, just to let you know I am also related to the Hughes/Goldsmith family. The Sarah Ann Hughes born 1860 in Rochester, Kent who married Aaron Goldsmith, is sister to my great grandmother Phoebe Hughes born 1868 in Chatham, Kent.
If anyone else is researching this Hughes family please do get in touch.
Thanks
Tracey
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Hello, I am also trying to research my Romany gypsy family, they were Hughes, and the only information I can get so far is Sidney Hughes my gg grandfather who was born in 1874. He is listed as a hawker on his daughter's (my great grandmother) marriage certificate. He is listed as the husband of 'Alice Maud' although there appears to be no record of marriage. They had 7 children together and at some point during the children's early years it appears they moved in to permanent accommodation in London. I know that part of Sidney's family remained gypsies in the traditional sense as my mother recalls visiting a great aunt Lucy (who is possibly Sidney's sister) in her caravan but can't recall where it was located. She also told me that when my great grandmother Ada Hughes (Sidney's daughter) died, the King of the gypsies in that area attended the funeral.
These are the sketchy details that I have to go on!
Needle in a haystack springs to mind....
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Hello. I found your thread last night, and the name of Kezia Goldsmith interested me very much. I believe that her husband, who I think was Isaac Stone, and whom she married in Milton in 1872, is my great grandfather. My maternal grandfather, Ernest Stone, was listed at age 1 in their household in the 1891 census (their address was 40, Charlotte Street, Milton Next, Milton). There is a strong maritime tradition in that branch of my family, and Isaac owned and worked a sailing vessel, on which my grandfather spent much time until the age of around 9, when apparently Isaac died of pneumonia (haven't found any record of this yet). Kezia, also spelt Kerzia (maybe it depended who filled in the census form!) apparently died in 1901 (Jan-March) I have only just started to look into my family tree, and you have clearly made much more progress than I, and I was wondering if you might be able to help with some more information on some of these people. Ernest, you may be interested to know, finished his work career as a tug-boat skipper.
Kind regards
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The Kezia Goldsmith to whom I referred above was born in Sheerness in 1855. I think there other ladies in the family history who also were named Kezia or some variant of the name ...
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Hello Banjo Bill, your Kezia is sister to my grandfather Thomas Goldsmith. I have Kezia born in 1853, Sheerness and Isaac in 1852, Milton. They married in the Parish Church, Sittingbourne on Dec.25 1872. Isaac's father was William Henry Stone, Lic. Victualler.
Kezia (have seen spelled Keziah and Thurza or misread as that) was the daughter of Sarah Stone and Moses Goldsmith. I haven't come across your William Henry Stone. I expect you have read the previous chat on this subject, you could have a look at an earlier subject Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe for more on Kezia's family.
Best wishes, Beeb/Brenda
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Thanks for the reply. Always nice to meet a new relative!
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Hi Bill, details i have on kezia,
born 1853 sheerness
baptised holy trinity sheerness aug 1853
died 1898
mar 25 dec 1872 sittingbourne to isaac stone
they had 6 children that i know off,
ada 1875
isaac 1877
sidney w 1881
joseph 1883
horatio 1887
ernest 1890
i have isaacs parents as william henry b 1826 milton & margaret maryott b 1828 harwich essex, williams parents as paul stone b 1802 gillingham marries mary church in 1823 milton, i also have some of isaacs siblings and william henry's siblings, thanks
shane.
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Hi Shane. Thank you for filling in some more of the blanks. I can't seem to find any record of Isaac's death - do you have any idea of when that was, please? He was recorded in the 1891 census, but I can't find him after that, and I can't find a death record for him.
Regards
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A possible death on free bmd dartford 1904 aged 52 v2a p 362 isaac stone, age is right.
Also he is on the 1901 census, so this looks a real possibility.
shane
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Thanks, Shane. Two new cousins in the same week!
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Hello everyone,
please does anyone know if an Abel Stone born c1811 in Sheerness is connected to the other Sheerness Stones.
i cant find him on the 1841,but he appears on the next two:
1851
Abel Stone born 1811 sheerness
Ann born 1805 woolwich.
class HO107 piece1628 folio173 p6
1861
class RG9 piece530 folio168 p14
he dies in 1863.
1871
Ann Stone b1802 Woolwich
class RG10 piece979 folio49 p12
1881
Ann Stone born 1809 woolwich
class RG11 piece968 folio73 p34
1891
Ann Stone born 1805 Woolwich
class RG12 piece713 folio64 p23
death 1900 faversham aged 96.
Their sister Esther born 1851 Sheerness married James Barber in faversham in 1870.James sister Ann married my 4xgreat uncle Peter Coppins.
Im keen to find anything on Abel pre-1851,and whether hes connected to the other Stones.Also who his wife Ann was.If anyone has any info id be very grateful.
many thanks,
Nel.