RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: meles on Thursday 24 July 08 14:28 BST (UK)
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Now you'd have thought with such an unusual forename, this would be easy? :-\
Healen Munday m. Lucy Dixon (don't know when, but it's after 1887 when Lucy has an illegitimte child, Kate) and first appears in the 1891 census in Crondal with her as being born c.1863 in Hartley Witney, Hants.
They're together in 1901 in Crookham.
But can I find him before then? No, I can't! ::)
I've tried several lateral approaches, but I'd appreciate some help on this one.
Thanks.
meles
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Hi Meles
there is a birth in Hartley Wintney RD Mar 1860 for a Helen Munday. Looking at the original index I wonder whether the name has been misinterpreted and this could be your man's birth?
Will have a look in the censuses too.
Barbara
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Hi Barbara
I saw Helen too. It's a few years out (but then, we are all used to people lying about their age at marriage). But I'm not aware of the Registrar getting the sex of a child wrong - but perhaps someone here does?
meles
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Are you on Tribal Pages Meles?
diddy.
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No - should I be? ???
meles
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Am having no luck in the censuses :(
I have checked the 1860 entry again and I believe the forename is Helan.
I have seen registrars correct the sex of a child on certificates. I wonder what sex the child registered in 1860 is?
Barbara
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It is quite possible for their to be a mistake over the sex, especially if the name Healen was mistaken for the girl's Helen.
I have a birth certificate for a Miriam Lottie whowas registered in error as a boy in September 1881, a correction the the registration and change to a girl was made in February 1882.
Jebber
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Had a look at Tribal Pages. So it's sort of like GenesReunited? I belong to the latter and no Healen Munday's there...
meles
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Thank you for looking, Barbara.
Looks like this will be a brick wall... :-\
melels
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Meles
I have had another search. I can't see a marriage for Healen and Lucy and still cannot trace him on the censuses. I see that Lucy was in London in 1881.
I had a look for Munday families in Hartley Wintney in 1861 but could not see any. There were however several Monday families and also a number of people in the workhouse with surname initial "M". Would it be worth following up some of the Mondays? Or checking for workhouse records?
Barbara
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It most certainly is. I got stuck on the forename, that I didn't think about Monday. Will explore that.
Thank you.
meles
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There appear to be 2 Monday families in Hartley Witney at this time.
One is Sarah b. 1821. She is a widow in 1861 and therefore could not have given birth to Healen in 1863 (well, OK, she could, but I think it unlikely and there is no birth I can find).
There is also William b. 1831 (possibly Sarah's brother in law). They don't have a Healen in 1861 or in 1871. They are recorded as Munday in 1861 and Monday in 1871. He has a son Arthur in 1864. I wondered if he was Arthur Healen, but no...
Any other thoughts, people?
meles
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On IGI there are another two births to a Healen Mundy and Lucy
Annie Marie Mundy born 20th Dec 1889 christened 2nd Feb 1890
Farnborough Hampshhire
Elizabeth Mary Mundy born 11th May Christened 2nd July
1893 Farnborough Hampshire
Elaine
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That's interesting - I have 5 children, including Elizabeth, but not Annie.
I'll have a look at the IGI to see if they have Healen's parents.
Thank you.
meles
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I have just seen the rest of them
there are six girls all with the same parents
Elaine
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I must be doing something wrong! ???
I went to the LDS site and clicked on the IGI list. I have filled in Healen Munday in the name box, and he is nowhere on the results. Same when I try with Lucy.
I find Anne and Elizabeth when I use their names, but not their siblings.
I come up with a blank with the "All resources" list.
What am I doing wrong?
meles
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on the LDS site
advanced search
dont put anything in the first boxes
in the parents boxes
put fathers full name and mothers as Lucy
comes up with two of the children
then click on the batch number in one of the childrens names
takes you to the rest of the family
Elaine
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I'm feeling very stupid. ???
I've got the batch number. I typed in "Elizabeth Munday" and enter. It comes up with her but not the rest.
meles
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try omitting Elizabeth
just enter surname
see if that works
Elaine
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You have to have forname and surname...
Aargh!
meles
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Meles and Elaine
Only Annie and Elizabeth have parents Healen and Lucy. The others have father Alfred.
Barbara
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Oh thank goodness - I thought I was going crazy! ::)
Thank you Barbara. :)
meles
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Hi Barbara
sorry I should have checked that
Elaine
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No problem Elaine - easy mistake to make. :)
Well I am going crazy meles ::) - I keep trying something else to find Healen and keep drawing a blank!
I wonder if anyone has access to the Hartley Wintney PRs? The IGI does not seem to cover the parish.
Barbara
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meles
I have just seen that Hampshire has an opc system
http://www.knightroots.co.uk
Unfortunately the link does not seem to work though! Maybe it is offline for maintenance?
Barbara
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Thank for looking, Barbara and Elaine. It's nice to feel that someone is looking over your shoulder and agreeing with you! :)
meles
PS I'll try that link later.
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I'm afraid that the transcriptions on the Knightroots site are nowhere near as complete as one might wish. Hartley Witney baptisms are included but they are very patchy as far as dates are concerned.
Nell
(PS Noticed a very strongly worded notice about some trancriptions on the site which are copyright and which would appear to have been used elsewhere without proper permission - beware!)
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Thanks for the 'heads up', Nell. :)
I think the solution is to go to my local LDS family history centre and see if they have Hartley Witney records. If not, then it's the l-o-n-g schlep to Kew. ::)
But I'm gonna solve this! ;)
meles
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Hi,
How about this?
1861 RG9/707 f.37 p.22 & f.38 p.23 Hartley Wintney
Blue Row
Charles MONDAY Head Mar 55 Ag Lab Hants Har Wintney
Mary " " Wife Mar 49 Monthly nurse " " " "
Ann MONDAY Daur Un 28 Farm work " " " "
James Hny MONDAY Daurs son 7 Scholar
Jabez MONDAY " " " " 5 " "
Hilon Wm MONDAY " " " " 1
marriage
Ann MONDAY Dec Q 1861 Hartley Wintney 2c 296
David LOVELOCK with same details :)
1871 RG10/1233 f.66 p.4 Hartley Wintney
Winchfield
David LOVELOCK Head Mar 41 Labourer Hants Winchfield
Ann Wife Mar 38 " " Hartley Wintney
Jabez MONDAY Son 14 Labourer " " " "
Elon LOVELOCK " Son 11 " " " "
Charles LOVELOCK Son 8 " " " "
Jane " " Daur 75 " " Crookham
Emma " " Daur 3 " " " "
John " " Son 10m " " Winchfield
Mary " " Daur 7 " " Hartley Wintney
Regards
Daisy
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By George, I think she's got it! ;D
Thank you so much, Daisy - I am delighted! ;D ;D ;D
meles
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Brilliant daisy :)
I can now stop thinking about this man!
Barbara
Edit: I wonder if that birth reg I found in 1860 is Healans? The date and place fit!
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Pleasure to help :)
Barbara I think you're right about the birth, I also think the typed image shows it to be Helan :)
Helan MUNDAY Mar Q 1860 Hartley W 2c 170
So now it's just the 1881 census and his marriage missing :P :)
Daisy
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I think you're right - does say Helan.
I wonder what other version of his name was used in 1881 and his marriage? ;)
And where did Wm come from in 1861 - did the enumerator simply not believe the forename?
meles
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I've really tried but I can't find either the 1881 or his marriage :(
Yes I think the enumerator must have changed the name, the original Hilon under the cross through does not look that clear so I guess he just thought it was an error or a badly written Wm.
Daisy
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Nor can I.
I guess that they may not have married (well, perhaps they did some time after the period we've all been looking at) - wouldn't have been the first time. ::)
Perhaps somehow got missed out of the census - also not for the first time. :)
meles