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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: elsie ellen on Tuesday 22 July 08 07:14 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone! :)
WALLMANN, Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm arrived in South Australia in 1846 on the "Pauline".
I would appreciate help to learn what BD&M information is available concerning him and any family he may have had.
Elsie
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marriage
WALLMANN Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm aged 30 status unknown father not recorded
married 15/10/1849
MEYER Wilhelmine aged 25 status unknown father not recorded
Scottish Church Adelaide District of Adelaide Book11 page 129
Jenn
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Children
Louise Whilelmine 5/4/1850 Adelaide 3/49
Wilhelm Adolph 11/4/1856 Adelaide 5/315
Ida Bertha 21/03/1858 Adelaide 11/258
Theodor Hermann 30/1/1860 Adelaide 15/269
Albert Emiel 14/08/1863 Adelaide 27/388
Emil Adolph 11/01/1865 Adelaide 33/248
Jenn
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WALLMANN Henrietta Wilhelmina died 20/1/1900 aged 77 Adelaide
Relative Heinrich Frederick Wilhelm WALLMANN (H)
Book 267/Page 225
Jenn
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Hi Jenn!
Just came back to the computer after bringing in the washing and was delighted to find your postings.
Thank you very much. :)
Elsie
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Elsie....most interested in your interest in the Wallman name in South Australia. Do you have any connection with Carl Freidrich Wallman?
.....dee
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Hi ...dee! :)
Just posted you a message on another site(*). As I was searching for this surname on google, I happened across a posting by you for Carl Wallmann.
As I have only just begun my research for this family link, I really know very little about the Wallmanns, so far. However, it seems plausible to me that there might be a connection. How many Wallmanns were in Adelaide, SA late 1840s/1850s? Possible siblings or cousins? ???
Elsie
(*) Moderator Comment: another site ? another board, maybe :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,312689.0.html
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Hi Elsie,
At West Terrace Cemetery some WALLMAN?N burials.
Wallman, Rudolph d. 1931, aged 77
Wallman,Theodore, d.1945 aged 91
WallmanEmily Jane
Wallman, Henry d. 1941 agesd 64
Wallman,Elizabeth Jane. d.1967 aged 89
Wallman, Arnold inf.
WallmanFreddie inf.
Wallmann, Albert E d. 1944 aged 81
Wallmann, Louisa A. d. 1930 aged 65
Wallmann Roy S. d. 1943 aged 54.
One of immediate relevance, but the others may fit in somewhere as things transpire.
Sue
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I'll look into the family some more this evening, Elsie.....about to start evening chores now..... :-\
.....dee
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Hi Elsie
I presume you have already seen this on the National Archives site.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03wk/
Just scroll three quarters down and you will see very small file on Heinrich Wallmann. It is already open so you can view a digital copy.
Troods
Edit - That link is not working Elsie just google National Archives and search as a guest typing in Wallmann in the keywords section.
Sorry about that.
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Hi Troods and All,
Interesting to note, I think, that there is also a naturalisation certificate for Carl Friedich.
The 2 men's particulars have much in common and may be brothers on close reading.
Sue
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Hi Elsie
Leading on from Sues post I found a couple of boys on the AWM site - Embarkation Roll WW1
- a Harold Stanley Wallmann son of Mrs Emily Jane Wallman Walkerville SA
- a Arthur Gordon Wallmann son of Mrs Louise Wallmann North Adelaide SA
They might tie in later on down the track in your research
Troods
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HI Troods ,I'm looking at my burials and your soldiers and seeing possibly...
Harold Stanley iis the son of the interrred Emily Jane
And
Possibly Arthur Gordon the son of Louisa A. ??
Maybe!
Sue
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I agree Sue they could indeed be your burial peeps.
It will be interesting to see were Carl Friedrick Wallmann fits in.
Troods
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From BISA
WALLMAN Heinrich Fried Whm born 19 Sep 1819 Perne, Hanover. Died 23 Jun 1872 buried West Terrace Cemetery. Arrived 1846 on the Pauline Occupation Cabinetmaker. Resided Adelaide. Religion Church of England.
Married Henrietta Whma [Minna] born 8 Jun 1822 died 20 Jan 1900.
Children Louise Dorothea HARDER [c1850-1903], Theodor Hermann [1860-], Albt Emile [1863-1944]]
Cheers
Cando
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Carl Friedrich Wallmann arrived 1st March 1849 on board the Godeffoy from Hamburg via Melbourne.
Carl Friderick WALLMANN aged 29 and single married Christiane Fredericke Julie ALLBRECHT aged 22 and single on 1st June 1850 at Registry Office Adelaide
Ref = Ade V 1/334
First child appears to have been born before the marriage, and interestingly was named Minna.
Minna Maria Julie Caroline WALLMANN born 3 Dec 1849 at Adelaide
Father = Carl WALLMANN & Mother = Julie ALBRECHT
Ref = Ade 3/7
Apart from Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm and Carl Friedrich marrying in 1849 and 1850, the next male Wallmann marriage isn't until 1877.....
However....there's the following ....
Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN aged 21 married Friedrich Willhelm HARTUNG aged 32 on 14th Dec 1848 at German Chapel Hindley St [Adelaide]
Ref = Ade 11/299
Were the three related....or all separate?
.....dee
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Carl Friedrich was a carpenter...... Heinrich Fried Whm was a cabinet maker......visiting card of Carl Friedrich was in the Ehmcke Carte de Visite album.....Herman Heinrich Wilhelm Ehmcke arrived in 1848 and was a carpenter who established a large saw mill and timber yard in Hindmarsh Square in Adelaide.
Wonder if one of my unknown photographs is Heinrich Fried Whm? :-\
.....dee
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Passenger list for the Pauline is available at
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1846Pauline.htm
and the Godeffroy at
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1849Godeffroy.gif
No sign of Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN on either passenger list. :-\
....dee
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Hi All
dee,
Do you mean you have a photo of your Carl Friedrich? or is it a typed visiting card in the more modern sense? If it was a photo, I, for one would lave to see it if your would post it.
Looking at the 2 Naturalisation documents, they were completed on the same date in the same hand writing, with the same place of birth & allied trades.
I can see some of the burials finding thier place in your lists of bdm's
Sue
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I think they are probably brothers, Sue....and Johanna Dorothea was a sister. I see that Heinrich Fried Whm used the name Dorothea for one of his daughters.
Yes, Sue.....I have 86 wonderful carte de visite photographs from the 1860s and 1870s.....but only names for 18 of them at this stage.....here's Carl Friederich in 1864......
......dee
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Sue, I thought Jenn would probably return and post more BDMs for Heinrich Fried Whm's family.
If Elsie would like them I have the BDM details for Carl Friedrich's family. I checked them out when I found the three photographs....I have two photos of some of his children as well.
.....dee
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Geez Dee what a brilliant photo. Great stuff that the puzzle is all fitting together.
Troods
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Wow!!! :D :D
I am overwhelmed. You are all treasures.
Thank you all for such amazing help.
What a fabulous photo of Carl Wallmann, ...dee!! I would definitely appreciate the BD&M details fro Carl Friedrich's family please ...dee.
I am going to look at the NAA site now to see for myself the naturalisation information.
There is much for me to absorb. As Troods says, the puzzle does appear to be coming together, thanks to all of you.
With a huge smile of gratitude
Elsie
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dee,
It's great.
I have never seen such an elaborate and clever back drop to a photo of that time.
He is quite lovely!
Sue
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Interesting you say that, Sue!
If all the pieces come together, as seems to be happening, it is a most appropriate backdrop. My son-in-law will really appreciate this, as he is a "bookaholic!" Carl would be his however many times gr uncle.
My husband and I have just been analysing the photo looking for familial likenesses. From the nose up the face is so familiar to us. Awesome.
Wow!!!!
Elsie
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Here you go Elsie.....
Children of Carl Frederick WALLMANN & Julia Friedricka Christiana ALBRECHT, all born Adelaide…..
First born Minna already posted…..
Carl Heinrich Adolph WALLMANN 5th Nov 1851
Ref = Ade 3/299
Emma Francisca WALLMANN 24th May 1853
Ref = Ade 4/ 166
Gustav August WALLMANN 6th Feb 1855
Ref = Ade 5/105
Augusta Maria Emilie WALLMANN born 26th July 1859
Ref = Ade 15/163
Hermann Welhelm Eduard WALLMANN 12th Sep 1863
Ref = Ade 27/440
Alwina Maria WALLMANN 30th Dec 1865
Ref = Ade 336/474
Anna Julia WALLMANN 13th Oct 1867
Ref = Ade 55/73
The children I have in photos are Minna and Emma, Gustav and Carl.
Children are great photos too..... :D :D
Shall I post them?
.....dee
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Yes please...dee.
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Here's the boys...... Carl Heinrich Adolph WALLMANN and Gustav August WALLMANN ......
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and here are the girls.....Minna Maria Julie Caroline WALLMANN and Emma Francisca WALLMANN
This is on the backs of them, so they would have been taken at his studio.
By Appointment
Professor Hall
Photographist
Hindley St Adelaide
Professer Hall was the photographist responsible for introducing Carte de Visite photographs to Adelaide.
....dee
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They are great dee,
I love how the boys show us that they can read and like to ride horses by the little items they hold and the cut and fabric of the girls dresses is beautiful.
Sue
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Fabulous photos ...dee. I'm thrilled to see them. Thank you. What a night! :)
Also thanks for the details for Carl and his family, ...dee. So much to absorb and work through.
Sue...it would seem the family was quite well educated. As you say, the items they hold tell us a little about them. A message from the past for the future!
I looked at the NAA sites for the naturalisation of Heinrich and Carl and noted the signatures. Heinrich's is clear and well written. Do you think I'd be correct in assuming it to be his handwriting, Sue? Also on both set of documents I can make out one of the signatories to be someone with the surname Meyer and that is the same surname of his wife. Could be a relative?
Troods...looked and made a note of the two records relating to WWI. They will fit somewhere, hopefully.
Elsie
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Elsie,
I'll follow up the children of Carl Friedrich for you later tomorrow.....time to shut up shop for tonight.
Glad you enjoyed the photos. When I get time to go back to working with the others, I'll have a very close look to see if there are any others with obvious family resemblences.
.......dee
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Thanks for all your help today ...dee.
Sleep well.
Elsie
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Before heading to bed had one last glance at postings and reread:
"Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN aged 21 married Friedrich Willhelm HARTUNG aged 32 on 14th Dec 1848 at German Chapel Hindley St [Adelaide]
Ref = Ade 11/299"
Of interest as it might help with a connection, Heinrich named his daughter Louisa Dorothea.
Whilst I might be clutching at straws, it also might be a name connection back to Germany and help in linking siblings. ??? ???
Elsie
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Hi Elsie
Do you think I'd be correct in assuming it to be his handwriting, Sue?
I would say in the case of both certificates, the men have signed in that place, though the body of the document in written in another hand.
Sue
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What a wonderful collection of photos they are amazing.
Great thread and am following it with interest.
Troods
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Sue, I thought Jenn would probably return and post more BDMs for Heinrich Fried Whm's family
I had left the thread because be as I thought Dee had the information to hand....sorry about that. I didn't want to double up on postings
kind thoughts JEnn.
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Groom: WALLMANN Rudolph Theodore aged FL father Henry Fredrick William WALLMANN
Married 13/1/1877 at St Paul’s Church Adelaide Book/Page 110/171
Bride: ROBINSON Emily Jane FL aged father Sparkhall Robinson
Children
Frederic William 16/5/1877 ade 183/207
Louis Sparkhall 7/4/1881 ade 259/299
Bertha Minna 10/12/1887 ade 408/361
Charles Edward 1/9/1885 ade 357/203
Dorothy Eileen 29/1/1894 ade 536/166
Ernest Albert 15/9/1883 ade 312/8
Ethel Blanche 8/7/1890 ade 462/404
Florence Edith Maud 1/4/1879 ade 218/37
Harold Stanley 24/3/1896 ade 581/239
Ruby Evelyn 1/1/1893 ade 513/22
Vera Gertrude 21/10/1899 ade 648/140
Jenn
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WALLMANN Albert Emile aged 21single father Henry Frederick William WALLMANN
Married 14/8/1884 at St Johns Chruch Adelaide 140/641
PAUL Louisa Ann aged 19 Single father James Paul
Children
Hurtle Albert 7/5/1885 ade 351/278
Violet Louisa 25/3/1887 ade 393/227
Roy Stanley 5/4/1889 ade 436/186
Ivy May 23/5/1891 ade 479/422
Clarence Herbert 13/1/1893 ade 514/481
Hilda Gertrude 19/10/1894 hin 552/333
May Wilhelmina 25/2/1900 hin 653/293
Vera Florence 27/4/1904 Hin 729/118
Jenn
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WALLMANN Emil aged 33 Single father Henry Wallmann
Married 5/11/1898 at St John Rectory Adelaide 197/500
Annabella McBride aged 25 single father John McBride
Children
Emil Frederick McBride 5/12/1895 Ade 564/103 symbol XS cross reference see also McBride Emil Fredick Wallmann
Eleanor Myrtle May 5/6/1896 ade 604/480
John Henry 13/12/1899 ade 650/51
Albert Hurtle 27/7/1901 ade 681/13
John Henry Augustine 15/8/1905 ade 752/273
Jenn
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Theodore WALLMANN aged 26 single fathe Heinrich Wallman
Married 4/9/1889 at PM church West Mitcham 160/715
Johanna Lange single aged 25 father Theodore Lange
children
Elsa Nathalie 13/8/1890 ade 463/281
Edward Alfred 11/5/1892 ade 500/470
Rita Charlotta Julia 29/4/1897 ade 602/125
Jenn
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Peter HARDER FL age father Johann Harder
Married 17/10/1866 at St Pauls Church 69/270
Louise Wallmann FL age father : Heinrivh Friedrich Wilhelm WALLMANN (note that is how it is spelt on the index)
Children
Bertha Annie 10/12/1866 ade 33/685
Henry John 19/8/1868 ade 55/272
Louise Helena 30/5/1874 ade 135/417
Jenn
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LANGLEY Thomas aged 25 single father William Langley
Married 5/6/1880 Residence of H Hussey Hackney Adelaide 123/859
Edith Bertha Wallmann aged 22 single father Henry Wallmann
Children
Ruth 25/8/1880 ade 246/332
Emma Minnie 4/12/1881 ade 273/276
William 12/8/1883 ade 310/477
Alice Beatrice 13/7/1885 ade 355/231
Frank Albert 5/3/1887 ade 391/423
Florence 3/6/1889 ade 438/407
Jenn
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Before heading to bed had one last glance at postings and reread:
"Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN aged 21 married Friedrich Willhelm HARTUNG aged 32 on 14th Dec 1848 at German Chapel Hindley St [Adelaide]
Ref = Ade 11/299"
Of interest as it might help with a connection, Heinrich named his daughter Louisa Dorothea.
Whilst I might be clutching at straws, it also might be a name connection back to Germany and help in linking siblings. ??? ???
Elsie
there is this birth of interest
DANKEL Carl Wilhelm Otto 9/2/1852 ade 3/337
Father Johann Heinrich Christian DANKEL
Mother Wilhelmine Henriette Dorothea Magthalena WALLMANN
Digger - South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Surname: DANKEL
Given Names: Carl Wilhelm Otto DANKEL died 9 weeks 19/4/1852 male aged 9weeks
Relative J H C DANKEL (F)
Relative 2 Minna DANKEL (M)
Book: 2 Page 132
Jenn
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Hi Jenn! :)
This is a treasure trove of information. Thanks so much. Appreciate your time and effort.
Jenn...when you have a moment, could you please check the marriages for the children of Peter Harder and Louise Wallman for me please?
Happy Nanna's/Grandma's Day Jenn, and any other grandparents reading this posting. :D
Elsie
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You are most welcome Elsie
Happy Nanna's/Grandma's Day Jenn, and any other grandparents reading this posting
I will admit to not knowing about this celebration
so onwards or backwards as it should be
Groom: HARDER Henry John aged 24 and single father Peter Harder
10/8/1893 at St Paul Church Adelaide 176/458
DAVOREN Lucy aged 25 and single father Thomas Davoren
children born to 1906
Lucy Annie 25/7/1894 at Ade 547/307
Louisa Violet Alma 15/12/1903 at Norwood 722/380
Elsie did you want their children etc
Jenn
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HEYEN Gerhard aged 28 single father Herman Heyen
maried 20/2/1895 at St Pauls Church Adelaide 182/690
HARDER Louise Helena aged 20 and single father Peter Harder
children to 1906
Hermann Peter Otto born 18/8/1897 ade 608/360
Gerhard Heinrich born 30/5/1900 Sandwell 659/449
Louise Katharine born 4/10/1904 Birkrenhead 736/459
Samuel WATT Aged31 single father James WATT
married 26/10/1904 at St Pauls Church Adelaide 221/400
HARDER Bertha Annie aged 37 father Peter Harder
Jenn
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Would welcome that information please Jenn.
Elsie
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Elsie are you interested in a painting of the ship Pauline It is on a German website - if so, I will find the url.
Cheers
Cando
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Most definitely, Cando. :) Thanks.
Elsie
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Elsie as I only have marriage to 1916 it will be limited
SLAPE Bertram William aged 26 single father Ralph James SLAPE
married 28/4/1914 Queen of Angles Church The Barton ( what a lovely name) 263/367
Lucy Annie Harder aged 20 single father Henry John Harder
You can view Bertam Slape's WW1 record on line ELsie
Jenn
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Again, thanks Jenn.
What interesting surnames this family line has! I'm finding this branch of my grandsons' family tree fascinating.
Now to the NAA site.....
Elsie
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Most definitely, Cando. :) Thanks.
Elsie
http://freenet-homepage.de/danziger-seeschiff/PAULINE.html
Lovely painting....do you speak/read German??
If you scroll down there is what appear to be the trips of the Pauline and I see Adelaide is mentioned.
Cheers
Cando
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Queen of Angles Church The Barton Jenn this is the Queens of Angels Church in the suburb of Thebarton. Went to a wedding there last year.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03wu/
Another piccie for Elsie!
Cheers
Cando
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A bit on the Slape’s for your grandson’s tree
Robert SLAPE aged 23 father James Slape married Mary Williams aged 21 father William Williams
25/12/1862 St John’s Adelaide 52/104
SLAPE Ralph James born 8/5/1863 at Second Creek Adelaide 27/245
Father Robert SLAPE mother Mary Williams
SLAPE Ralph James aged 23 s father Robert Ralph Slape married Emma Jones father Henry Jones
23/4/1887 at the Res of R Slape Burnside 151/264
Children
Bertram William 16/2/1889 at Nor 433/252
Fredrick Samuel 13/6/1890 nor 460/154
Ralph Gordon 27/12/1891 Morphett Vale 93/141
Edwin Thomas 5/4/1893 at Morphett Vale 519/454
Cecil Roy 22/4/1895 at Morphett Vale 562/464
Doris Martha 9/3/1897 Burnside 601/275
Donald Clement 24/2/1901 Burnside 675/391
Marjory Dorothy Maud 14/4/1901 Burnside 675/209
Phillip Neill 23/4/1903 Kinghtsbridge 711/479
Jenn
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Most definitely, Cando. :) Thanks.
Elsie
http://freenet-homepage.de/danziger-seeschiff/PAULINE.html
Lovely painting....do you speak/read German??
Cheers
Cando
Vollschiff PAULINE, Ölgemälde on canvas, between 1838 and 1844 in the possession of the Focke museum in Bremen. H. 51 cm, B. 78 cm. 1905 acquired. Inv. No. B.244, Keel-laying 3.12.1838, launching of a vessel 22.3.1839, Johann is enough, for Bremen Grohn (# 132) It is a simple portrait of a full or a Fregattschiffes with simple water representation and not particularly clearly painted Takelage. The ship, of port in front seen, runs under full things. At the nose the ship name is readably, over the black trunk runs brown strips, and at deck sailors with round hats stand beside a large cabin. Of the Topp of the Fockmastes the house flag flutters of H.H. Meier & CO. (blue with red rectangle and white M), of the Großmast a Namenswimpel and aft of Bremen the flag. In the background a wheel steamer and the coast are to be recognized. 254 Prussian normal loads = 507 tdw (380 NRT), 31,34 m, 8,76 m, 5,17 m, 12 men crew Ownership structure: 1839 PAULINE Hermann Hinrich Meyer & CO., Bremen/HB 1844 PAULINE Johann is enough, for Bremen Vegesack/HB PAULINE Johann long inheriting, Bremen Vegesack/HB 1862 PAULINE Gerhard & Carl is enough, for Bremen/HB 1863 PAULINE Hermann Behrent, Danzig/PR 1868 PAULINE Hermann Behrent, Danzig/NB
Jenn
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How amazing is that? To see a painting of the "Pauline" and have that much information written about it...wow!
Cando, I can read enough German to make some sense of the article. I studied German for five years in Secondary School. This will test the brain cells as I try to recall some of the language and grammatical structure.
A great find thanks Cando.
And now a picture of the beautiful church, The Queen of Angels. Appreciate learning that the Barton is Threadbarton.
I am so thrilled with all this wonderful help from everyone. So very, very grateful to you all. :) :)
Elsie
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A little more translation (with help from Babelfish not me can't do that that well.)
The PAULINE was intended for the North Atlantic passenger trip. The maiden voyage began 77 in the tween deck, to New York, which was reached after 36-tägiger journey on 6 May under guidance of captain Jürgen Meyer from Vegesack on 1 April 1839 and led with 82 passengers, of it. Also the next five journeys went with passengers from Bremerhaven to New York, the last under captain Friedrich G. Schelling. From the next year a heavy accident of the ship is delivered. On the journey from New York to Bremen the ship in a storm was entmastet and had to start the port of Cowes. On 31 January 1844 the PAULINE became to the designer, Johann long one, Vegesack, for 10.000 Reichstaler L' dor sold and already on 23 April at the price of 13.000 Reichstaler to of Bremen the company Johann long one of son & Widow further-sells. For this trading firm the PAULINE among the captains Christian OF de Harde, Johann guard, Conrad Lamke, Lüder Stelljes, Theodor Julius drove enriches and almost twenty years. The trip area of the ship was in this period above all east India and the Far East as well as Australia. Three round trips are exemplary from the years 1845 - 1848 under captain Martin Hashagen Conrad Lamke. 27. March 1845 starting from Bremerhaven to Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Manila and back, arrival Bremerhaven on 10 May 1846. Already one month later, on 16 June 1846, the PAULINE ran under guidance of captain Lüder Stelljes, after haven Adelaide, Manila, CAN clay/tone and Singapore, in order to return on 12 July 1847 to the Weser. The next journey began only on 21 November 1847 and led in something other order after Adelaide, then Simapore, Shanghai, Manila and back to Bremerhaven. 1862 went the PAULINE into the property of Gerhard and Carl excessive, to Bremen; the command took over captain Martin Meiners. Under its guidance the ship had to exist a particularly heavy journey. The Weser newspaper reported over it on 2 January 1863: Stanley (Falkland islands), 13. Octbr. Of Bremen the ship PAULINE, Capt. Meiners, from Bremen to Honolulu certainly and in consequence of violent storms, with which it had to fight at the Cap horn, here returned, suffered too much damage, in order to be able to carry its load, which is to be deleted, further. The PAULINE will return to Bremen and the load with another ships further sails. Probably due to this accident the PAULINE was sold 1863 after Danzig. More again. Owner was Herrmann Behrent, captains became C.A. rapid from new driving water (1870), and E. Wockenfoth from Danzig (1873). The PAULINE stranded on 4 October 1873 due to heavy lake with Barrow in England and was broken off. The not insured ship was with 12-köpfiger crew in ballast on the journey of Sundsvall in Sweden after Barrow
Jenn
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Only just got home after a busy day out and just had to spare a few minutes to catch up on this thread. Some great background information coming up for you, Elsie, as well as all the bdm information Jenn has posted. :D :D
While I was out today, I found a few snippets in the books of the Register newspaper notices, which I'll type out a bit later. Amazingly they all related to the family of Carl Friedrich Wallmann....not one entry for the family of Heinrich Fried Whm Wallmann.
.....dee
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There were notices in the Register for the births of 3 of Carl Friedrich's children......
28th July 1859
On the 26th July, Mrs C Wallmann, of Rundle St, of a daughter.
14th September 1863
WALLMANN - On the 12th September, Mrs C F Wallmann, Rundle St, of a son.
14th October 1867
WALLMANN - On the 13th October, Mrs C F Wallmann, Rundle St, of a daughter.
Then there was the following marriage announcement.....
17th Apr 1868
ROSMAN - WALLMANN
On 16th April, at Stow Memorial Church, by the Rev. C W Evan, B. A. , W.H. Rosman jun of the National Bank, Kooringa, to Minna, eldest daughter of Mr C F Wallmann, of Rundle St.
No cards.
And finally. the death notice of Carl Friedrich himself.....
On the 7th June 1869 at his residence, Rundle St, Adelaide, Mr C F Wallmann, aged 48 years.
So he died only 5 years after that photograph was taken. :-\
.....dee
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Here's the death of Carl Friedrich......
Charles Frederick WALLMANN aged 48 of Adelaide died 7th June 1869 at Adelaide
Relative = Charles WALLMANN
Ref = Ade F 29/189
And here’s the death of his wife…..
Juliane Christina Fridrika WALLMANN aged 69 and a widow of North Adelaide died on the 19th Apr 1897 at North Adelaide
Relative = Carl WALLMANN deceased husband
Ref = Ade 242/406
......dee
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Two of Carl and Julia's children died young.....
Anna Julia WALLMANN aged 9 weeks of Adelaide died on 18th Dec 1867 at Adelaide
Father = Charles Frederick WALLMANN
Ref = Ade 29/44
Auguste WALLMANN aged 2 years of Adelaide died on the 10th July 1861 at Adelaide
Relative = Carl Friederic WALLMANN
Ref = Ade F 9/263
.....dee
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Marriages of some of Carl's children......
Gustav August WALLMANN aged 23 and single married Louisa Haynes DAVIS aged 23 and single on 23rd May 1878 at the Congregational Church, North Adelaide.
Fathers = Carl Friedrich WALLMANN & Henry DAVIS
Ref = Ade V 115/731
Minna Maria Julia Caroline WALLMANN aged 19 and single married William Henry ROSMAN aged 23 and single on 16th April 1868 at Stow Memorial Church Adelaide
Fathers = Carl Friedrich WALLMANN & William Henry ROSMAN
Ref = Ade 75/433
Emma Francesca WALLMANN aged 24 and single married Thomas Robson DAVIS agecd 30 and a widower on 16th April 1878 at Presbyterian Church, Flinders St Adelaide.
Fathers = Charles WALLMANN & Henry DAVIS
Ref = Ade 115/140
.....dee
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Can't see a marriage for Carl Heinrich Adolph Wallmann....but he did marry I think.......I can see the marriage of one of his children.....
More digging required...... ;D ;D
.....dee
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Before heading to bed had one last glance at postings and reread:
"Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN aged 21 married Friedrich Willhelm HARTUNG aged 32 on 14th Dec 1848 at German Chapel Hindley St [Adelaide]
Ref = Ade 11/299"
Of interest as it might help with a connection, Heinrich named his daughter Louisa Dorothea.
Whilst I might be clutching at straws, it also might be a name connection back to Germany and help in linking siblings. ??? ???
Elsie
there is this birth of interest
DANKEL Carl Wilhelm Otto 9/2/1852 ade 3/337
Father Johann Heinrich Christian DANKEL
Mother Wilhelmine Henriette Dorothea Magthalena WALLMANN
Digger - South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Surname: DANKEL
Given Names: Carl Wilhelm Otto DANKEL died 9 weeks 19/4/1852 male aged 9weeks
Relative J H C DANKEL (F)
Relative 2 Minna DANKEL (M)
Book: 2 Page 132
Jenn
And it seems Carl Heinrich Adolph Wallmann married a Dankel too.....lots of children born to him and his wife Anna Meta Helene Dankel, but still can't find the marriage. :-\
......dee
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http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/Index_search.asp?searchid=42
just out of interest you will see
C F WALLMAN aged 26 and a another Wallmann not christian name shown travelling between Victoria and Adelaide in 1853
JEnn
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And it seems Carl Heinrich Adolph Wallmann married a Dankel too.....lots of children born to him and his wife Anna Meta Helene Dankel, but still can't find the marriage
been looking at that one and can't find the marriage either
Jenn
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Thanks for trying, Jenn. P'raps he married interstate..... :-\
Am missing the marriage of Anna Julia Augusta WALLMANN as well...... :-\
.....dee
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Deaths in Victoria
WALLMAN Clarence Herbt aged 58 at Glong 1951 reg no 18633
Father:Albt Emil Mother Louise PAUL
WALLMAN Hurtle Albert aged 76 at Malvern 1961 reg no 8135
Father Emil Albert Mother Louisa Paul
Jenn
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Hi all! :D
Fantastic information. Thank you ...dee for digressing from your own research to help me in mine. I am really, really grateful for your kindness. :D
I was wondering if the death details might be available for "Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN aged 21 married Friedrich Willhelm HARTUNG aged 32 on 14th Dec 1848 at German Chapel Hindley St [Adelaide]
Ref = Ade 11/299" and details of any children. Maybe some christian names are similar to those of the children of Heinrich and Carl? Possibility of a clue to a link between the three.
Also need to try and discover when Johanna arrived in SA. From where did she set sail?
Interestingly, I just noticed that Heinrich and Carl Wallmann died within 16 days of each other in June 1872. Mmmmm....
Elsie
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Great find Jenn! ;)
I know where Malvern is located in Melbourne, but have no idea as to what Glgung refers. ??? Anyone have a suggestion please?
Elsie
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Johanna HARTUNG born 14 Feb 1856 at Adelaide
Parents = Wilhelm HARTUNG & Johanna WALLMANN
Ref = Ade 5/293
Only one that turned up, Elsie....but there is something else I'll post when i have checked it out.....
.....dee
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Hartung story is a sad one..... :'( :'(
Johanna HARTUNG aged 13 mths of Adelaide died 21st March 1857 at Adelaide
Father = Wilhelm HARTUNG (F)
Ref = Ade 5/185
Johanna HARTUNG aged 31 of Nain (think that is possibly Nairne) died 27th June 1860 at Nain
Husband = Wilhelm HARTUNG
Ref = Ade A 9/155
It seems Wilhelm remarried as there are more deaths of babies with him as the father after Johanna died. :-\
.....dee
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Vera Florence 27/4/1904 Hin 729/118
Can anyone please tell me where Hin might refer to please?
Elsie
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...dee
That is really so sad. Too, too young. Oh dear.
Elsie
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Hello Elsie
it is short for Geelong
regards Jnn
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Hin I think is Hindmarsh but not 100%
Jenn
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Thanks Jenn. :D
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Hin I think is Hindmarsh but not 100%
Jenn
Jenn is spot on, Elsie...... :D
.....dee
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http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/manning/adelaide/entertai/misc.htm
dee...
I noticed when looking at the Metafind data base State Library of South Australia
there was a Wallmann and Sons funeral directors......does this tie in with "your lot" wondered seeing the information about cabinet makers and carpenters
Jenn
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Have no idea, Jenn. But I noticed some Queensland Wallmanns on the Queensland BDM website......and there is a reference in the South Australian Archival Database to the following......
"Reminiscences of Nettie Eugenie Wallman of family background and life in Victoria, Queensland and South Australia."
Ref= D 6336(L)
Date = 1970
.....dee
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Morning! :D
Please excuse my ignorance but can you tell where and how I might access the reference to which you refer in the SA Archival Database? State Library perhaps?
Elsie
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Spot on Elsie :)
http://www.catalog.slsa.sa.gov.au:1083/search/
Cheers
Cando
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Sorry Elsie.....still half asleep and frozen this mornning! ::) ;D
.....dee
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WALLMANN Herman Wm Edwd born Adelaide (died in Balwyn Vic in 1930 reg no 8108)
Married Katie Campbell McDonald born Geelong
in 1893 in Victoria reg no 6659
Children
Nellie Claire born 1894 Albert Park reg no 61
Regd Hermann born 1894 Albert Park reg no 62
WALLMAN Nellie Claire died aged 74 in 1969 reg no 19427
WALLMAN Reginald Herman died aged 71 in 1968 reg no 6605
I wonder if as twins they were close all of their lives
Chas Gustave born 1903 Geelong reg no 25859
died 1985 aged 81 at Hawthorn reg no 09919
WALLMAN Kate Campbell died in 1953 aged 85 at Camwell reg no 12400
Father Mcdonald Donald Mother Mary MITCHELL
WALLMAN Hazel Beatrice born 1920 reg no 15924 in Richmond
Father Hurtle Albert Wallmann mother Ethel May Beddell
WALLMAN Jno Hubt born 1914 at Golden Square Victoria reg no 22656
Wallman Mary Fullarton born 1920 Brighton Victoria reg no 9549
Father Hubert Philcon Wallman and mother Agnes Marianne Fullarton
Jenn
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Finally getting some more info organised for you, Elsie.....
Births… children of Carl Heinrich Adolf WALLMAN & Anna Meta Helene DANKEL
Annie Auguste Julie WALLMAN born 19th Sep 1876 at Kent Town
Ref = Ade 172/465
Alfred Charles Edward WALLMANN born 19th Nov 1878 at Kent Town
Ref = Ade 211/400
Edward Charles WALLMANN born 13th March 1880 at Kent Town
Ref = Ade 236/461
Edward George WALLMANN born 19th Nov 1881 at Kent Town
Ref = Ade 272/276
Ernest August Berthold WALLMAN born 19th Aug 1885 at North Adelaide
Ref = Ade 358/156
Edgar George WALLMANN born 27th Feb 1888 at Kent Town
Ref = Nor 414/377
Norma Ruby WALLMANN born 28th July 1889 at Adelaide
Ref = Ade 443/57
Beatrice Mary WALLMANN born 13th Aug 1891 at Adelaide
Ref = Ade 485/22
Still haven't found a marriage for the parents, though. :-\
.....dee
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Children of William Henry ROSMAN & Minna Marie Julia Caroline WALLMANN
Minna Julie Marie ROSMAN born 14th March 1869 at Kooringa
Ref = Bur 71/482
Helen Emma ROSMAN born 5th July 1870 at Kooringa
Ref = Bur S 85/585
Ernest William ROSMAN born 13th Oct 1873 at Kooringa
Ref = Bur S 127/332
Alice Alvine ROSMAN born 14th Aug 1879 at Kooringa
Ref =Bur S 226/22
Henry ROSMAN born 4th Apr 1881 at Kooringa
Ref = Bur S 258/478
Bertha Sophie ROSMAN born 1st Nov 1882 at Redruth
Ref = Bur S 293/365
Frank Edgar ROSMAN born 15th June 1887 at Aberdeen
Ref = Bur 398/311
.....dee
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Children of Thomas Robson DAVIS & Emma Francesca WALLMANN
Lilian Maud DAVIS born 28th May 1879 at Norwood
Ref = Ade 221/329
Agnes Minnie DAVIS born 30th Apr 1880 at Norwood
Ref = Ade 240/58
Julia Clara DAVIS born 18th Aug 1881 at New Glenelg
Ref = Ade 267245/
Amy Philcox DAVIS born 17th Apr 1885 at Snowtown
Ref = Dal 350/100
Harold Albrecht DAVIS born 11th June 1886 at Snowtown
Ref = Dal 377/11
Helen Marie DAVIS born 17th Aug 1887 at Snowtown
Ref =Dal 402/428
Ernest Walter DAVIS born 28th Feb 1889 at Truro
Ref = Ang 434/138
Dora Francisca DAVIS born 5th Sep 1892 at Truro
Ref = Ang 507/93
Percival Guy DAVIS born 13th March 1884 at Snowtown
Ref = Dal 324/84
Thomas Charles DAVIS born 20th Oct 1882 at Snowtown
Ref = Dal 293/45
....dee
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Children of Gustav August WALLMANN & Louisa Haynes DAVIS
Agnes Louise WALLMANN born 24th Feb 1879 at North Adelaide
Ref = Ade 215/150
Hubert Philcox WALLMANN born 14th April 1882 at Moonta
Ref = Dal 281/162
Reginald Horton WALLMANN born 24th Dec 1884 at North Adelaide
Ref = Ade 342/11
Charles Roy WALLMANN born 28th March 1887 at Keswick
Ref = Ade 393/440
Leslie Haynes WALLMANN born 30th March 1891 at North Adelaide
Ref = Ade 475/411
Arthur Gordon WALLMANN born 29th June 1892 at North Adelaide
Ref =Ade 502/421
Douglas Robson WALLMANN born 4th March 1896 at North Adelaide
Ref = Ade 580/200
.....dee
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Hi Elsie,
A lovley little bit about Alice Alvine Rosman [reply #86 per dee]
She was a school teacher, initially teaching Arithmetic and Hygiene.
The notes made by her inspector and his gradings of her work are fascinating.
She took a month's leave in 1939.
http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/research/condon/teachers/Teachers.asp?TeacherID=8160
Sue
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...dee. What more can I say but again thanks for all the wonderful information you have provided on these families. ;D ;D
Sue...thank you for directing me to this interesting document. Would never have thought to find this information on the net! A long and admirable teaching career for Alice.
I am indebted to all who have helped me in this search. Everyone has been so kind. Thank you. :D :D :D
I am trying now, so far unsuccessfully, to trace the Wallmann family connection back to Germany. Where is Perne? A town/village/urban area? Pre German unification birthdate of Heinrich (1819) makes it all the more difficult. I have never tried to find any information in Germany before! ::)
Elsie
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Elsie,
I searched the Western Europe Vital Records Index for you, but couldn't find anything helpful.
......dee
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Thanks ...dee!
This has the potential to be a solid brick wall. ::)
Elsie
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This has the potential to be a solid brick wallmann.
Sorry, I just couldn't help it ;)
Sue
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;D ;D ;D Sue.
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Sue ;D ;D ;D ;D
n family search - IGI there is a birth in 1819 in for a Heinrich...just looked quickly. Also WELLMAN
http://nona.net/features/map/placedetail.497814/Perne/
Cando
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Hello everyone
I am only new to this site and wow what a wonderful suprise to find you all. Heinrich Wallmann and Minna Meyer Wallmann are my 4th great grandparents. I am descended through Louise Dorothea Wallmann married Peter Harder, Wilhelmina Harder married Henry Alfred Edward Stephen Vick, Dorothea Annie Vick married Bernard James Engel, Marjory Dorothy Engel married Harry James Pearce (my grandparents)
Fantastic photos I do hope there is a connection. Best to you all and all your effort so far. Happy treasure hunting (:
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Specialkmp...welcome to Rootschat. :)
What a pleasure it is to make contact with you. There is indeed a connection. I will forward you a personal message.
Elsie
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Welcome to Rootschat, Specialkmp.
I'm so pleased that you have found this thread and the photos. It's great to think that I can help descendants have a photograph of some of their ancestors.
Dee :)
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Hi All
I am a new user of this site and have read the thread with delight. I am a descendant of Heinrich Wallmann and Minna Wallmann (nee Meyer) as follows:
2nd great grandparents Peter Harder and Wilhelmina Wallmann
1st great grandparents Henry Harder and Lucy Davoren
grandmother Violet Louise Alma Harder (only sibling of Lucy Annie Harder who married Bertram Slape) Slape cousin was groomsman at my parents wedding.
I have not figured out how to view the photos you are all seeing...can you help please.
Cheers, Marien
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Hi,
Just a snippet from the South Australian Police Gazette 27th April 1881
MISSING FRIENDS
Information is requested respecting William Wallman, who was last heard of at Wentworth, New South Wales, some four years since. Description--Aged 25 years, height 5ft. Sin. or 6in., fair complexion, fair hair, blue eyes, bowlegged, a fencer by trade.
Someone in SA was looking for William.
Regards
Gerry
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Hi All
I am a new user of this site and have read the thread with delight. I am a descendant of Heinrich Wallmann and Minna Wallmann (nee Meyer) as follows:
2nd great grandparents Peter Harder and Wilhelmina Wallmann
1st great grandparents Henry Harder and Lucy Davoren
grandmother Violet Louise Alma Harder (only sibling of Lucy Annie Harder who married Bertram Slape) Slape cousin was groomsman at my parents wedding.
I have not figured out how to view the photos you are all seeing...can you help please.
Cheers, Marien
Welcome to Rootschat, Marien. :)
The photos you want to see are on pages 2 & 3 of this thread. As you scroll down the thread, just give the photos time to appear. To help you, here's a link to page 2...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,316708.10.html
Let us know if you still have problems.
Dee :)
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Hi! I am new to this site tonight. My great-great Grandparents were Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm Wallmann and Henrietta Wilhlmina Caroline Meyer. My Great grandfather was their son Albert Emiel Wallmann. I am attaching one photo of Albert for you and should be able to find another earlier one with his family. Please contact me in regard to what you know about the Wallmanns and what I may be able to help you with. My Grandma was Albert's daughter Ivy May Wallmann.
Hope to hear from you soon.
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Hi Marien!
Please contact me regarding the Wallmann family as Heinrich and Henrietta were my Great-great Grandparents.
Regards, Debbie.
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Marien and Debbie ... welcome to Rootschat. It's an amazing forum, that now leads us to making contact with each other.
I will be sending a PM to both of you.
With a smile
Elsie
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Hi Debbie
Lovely to connect. Fabulous photo, thanks very much. I wonder if this suggests Albert was a gardener?
Cheers
Marien
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Specialmpk
... I have just found the death notice for Dorothea Annie Engel. Marjory is cited as Mrs J. Rovrelli? Did she marry twice? ???
Elsie
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Hi there, I am also new to this site and I am the great grand son of Gustav August Wallmann and my grand father was Arthur Gordon Wallman. I read in the thread that there were some wonderful pictures of the Wallman family going back to Gustav's parents and I would love to get a copy of these. I am not sure how to use this site but would love being able to down load them. My mother (Arthurs daughter) who is now 83 would love to see them.
Thanks very much for any help on this.
David
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Hi David!
I have just read your posting and would be happy to forward you scanned copies of the photos that I have.
I will send you a personal message with my private email address so that you can then respond with a personal email address. i will then be able to send you a copy of the photos.
Sounds convoluted but is really quite simple!
With a smile. :)
Elsie
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Thanks very much for the prompt response Elsie!
Looking forward to your email and thanks again.
David
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I'm related to the Dankel/Wallmann's listed below and wondering if you can find some more info on them?
DANKEL Carl Wilhelm Otto 9/2/1852 ade 3/337
Father Johann Heinrich Christian DANKEL
Mother Wilhelmine Henriette Dorothea Magthalena WALLMANN
Digger - South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
This is what I already have -
DANKEL, Johann Heinrich Christian (B. 24 Jul 1823 Germany, D. 8 Feb 1861 Albury NSW)
WALLMANN, Wilhelmine Henriette Dorothea Magthalena (B. 18 Jul 1824 Germany, D. 20 Nov 1880 Corowa NSW)
Arrival in Adelaide 24 Dec 1851
Children:
DANKEL, Amelia Eliza (1851-1937)
DANKEL, Carl Wilhelm Otto (1852-1852)
DANKEL, Augusta (1859-?)
Following the death of JHC Dankel, WHDM Dankel married Johan Cederlund on 28 Jun 1861 in Albury NSW.
I'd be very grateful if anyone can find more information on this/these families!
Before heading to bed had one last glance at postings and reread:
"Johanna Dorothea WALLMANN aged 21 married Friedrich Willhelm HARTUNG aged 32 on 14th Dec 1848 at German Chapel Hindley St [Adelaide]
Ref = Ade 11/299"
Of interest as it might help with a connection, Heinrich named his daughter Louisa Dorothea.
Whilst I might be clutching at straws, it also might be a name connection back to Germany and help in linking siblings. ??? ???
Elsie
there is this birth of interest
DANKEL Carl Wilhelm Otto 9/2/1852 ade 3/337
Father Johann Heinrich Christian DANKEL
Mother Wilhelmine Henriette Dorothea Magthalena WALLMANN
Digger - South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Surname: DANKEL
Given Names: Carl Wilhelm Otto DANKEL died 9 weeks 19/4/1852 male aged 9weeks
Relative J H C DANKEL (F)
Relative 2 Minna DANKEL (M)
Book: 2 Page 132
Jenn
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Following the death of JHC Dankel, WHDM Dankel married Johan Cederlund on 28 Jun 1861 in Albury NSW.
Hi theroob, sorry to hijack the thread, but do you have any information on Johan Cederlund pre marriage?
(Just checking before I create a lookup request)
I am the great granddaughter of Johan and was looking for immigration information.
I don't have any arrival information, so can't trace him back to Sweden (it may be a case of identify theft upon arrival).
Thanks!
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Hi, I would like to add that Carl Frederick Wallmann and Julia Christine Albrecht's Gt Grandson Neil Stuart Wallman, Father: Leslie Haynes Wallman b: 1891; Grandfather: Gustave August Wallman b: 1855; son of above, was my local Dr in West Ryde Sydney. I have a wonderful Obituary that was publised in our local paper in 1989 on Dr Wallman's death at the age of 66. He was such a lovely man and was Dr for 3 generations of my family. I have the obituary, which includes photo if you are interested.