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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: carigreen on Monday 21 July 08 14:02 BST (UK)
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I am wondering if anyone might know of a fairly large tomb in a churchyard in Brampton for Pickering? I would be really interested to know the inscription.
Many thanks
Cari
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Sometime in the last 12 months, I scoured Brampton graveyard for someone here but I can't find my post. Maybe someone who understands the workings can do it for us. To recap - I don't remember any large "tombs" and the gravestones that were there were in the local sandstone and fairly badly degraded (the house is fairly badly degraded and people have tried to look after that!)
I'm back from hols for a week and will try to pop in on way to work.
bob
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Sometime in the last 12 months, I scoured Brampton graveyard for someone here but I can't find my post.
Was it this one? http://www.rootschat.com/links/03yw/
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Jen, you're brill! That was the one.
Sorry I'me still on french time and french wine. Will do the neccessary thurs morning as the mehm sahib is still over there and there's nobody here to kickstart me tomorrow.
bob
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Made it tonight on way home. Yes there is a pickering gravestone but I wouldn't say it was big.
To the memory of Maryann (spelt exactly like that) daughter of George and Rachel Pickering who died feb 26th 1817 aged 10 months.
ALSO, THE ABOVE GEORGE PICKERING, PAVER, WHO DIED NOV 10th 1850 AGED 55 YEARS.
That was the only legible Pickering one in the graveyard but as I said yesterday, there are a lot of illegible headstones.
Hope this is the right one
bob
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Hi Bob - thanks for trying but I don`t think those are the Pickerings I`m looking for. I have a photo (old!) of a 'needle' type stone with steps in front and handwritten on the photo os 'grt grt grandfather Pickering'. The Pickerings I`m interested in are those on the 1841 census with Mother Martha Pickering (45) and children Alice, William, Edward, Mark, John and another William. Whether Martha was widowed by this time I don`t know. I also can`t make out what it says on the brackets - could be pannier? These Pickering went on to become wealthy railroad contractors.
Am I right in thinking there are/were 2 churches in Brampton? I think it could be the old Parish Church that would be relevant to me.
Your efforts much appreciated Bob
Cari
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I also can`t make out what it says on the brackets - could be pannier? These Pickering went on to become wealthy railroad contractors.
The bracket just groups the household together (as with other families).
The occupation (of the first William) is Paviour - a person who lays paving.
The baptisms of (John and) Martha's children are to be found in IGI batch P004781
The was a John PICKERING who died shortly before the census-
Deaths Mar 1841
PICKERING John Brampton 25 21
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I can' think of 2 churches in Brampton. Any ideas Geoff?
We will have to be quick as I leave here on the 28th and I'm back at the chateau for 10 days before that to pick up Madame and transport her home. 8)
bob
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Not my neck o' the woods Bob. :)
The map shows two churches and a couple of chapels http://tinyurl.com/6n4ndl
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MMM! I thought the one with the steeple was a methodist but I'll check on my way through tomorrow. Plus the ground rises at a rate of knotts so the graves would be vertical not horizontal - first jewish cemetary in Cumbria? :-X
bob
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Hi
Thee's the RC St Ninian's, Craw Hall but could it be Irthington, just outside? The map I've looked at, in the current Cumbria "Street Directory", has the cemetery marked well out of Brampton, and not far from Brampton.
There's also an "Old Church Farm" marked not far away., all these on Old Church Lane. Irthington ois on the next minor road across.
Loads od entries I've been missing for Brampton have turned up at Irthington.
Of course there are always burial registers, for Brampton, Irthington and the cemetery.
The two parish churches are on film in the record offie and library. Can't remember about the cemetery.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi,
It's about 6 years since i was up that way, there were two churches with graveyards in Brampton. The one on the main street with a graveyard at the side and behind and the old one, up the lane, off the Longtown road.
If i remember right, i think there was once a presbyterian church/meeting place off the main street, on the right hand side as if driving towards Carlisle, up a narrow street.
Also, don't forget to check at Lanercost Priory. Sometimes the funeral was at Brampton and they were buried at Lanercost. Lanercost had quite a number of Vaults and Crypts which collapsed a number of years ago.
Regards
Rewcastle.
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Thanks everyone for all that info, especially to Bob for the Paviour clarification - not surprising really as the Pickering family went on to become wealthy contractors!
I will revert to my source and see where we go from here.
Cari
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Rewcastle, that's brill.
The church with the steeple on the main road is definitely Methodist (and the steeple is a very poor example).
Cari, I'm fairly sure there were no needle monuments in the Brampton graveyard but tomorrow night I will wander down to Lanercost (on foot) cos I'm fairly sure there are some there. If not tomorrow, then friday on my way to cricket club which acts as our village pub.
bob
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Cari,
so sorry but ggggr is not in Lanercost. 5 large headstones to Robson, Bell, Forster and the ubiquitous Graham with the only Cleopatras Needle being to a young Mary Bell. If I get a minute next week I wander up the Longtown rd as directed by Rewcastle.
bob
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Many thanks again Bob - have one on me at the Cricket Club!!
Cari
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I tried last week but your credit is crunched! ;)
besides I've decided to go greek.
bob
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Bob - I have had the ok to pass on a photo of the grave if that will help in any way. How do I attach a photo here - or shall I send it direct to you if that`s possible.
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Cari, you may be in luck. I took a detour this morning but without Rewcastles directions I would definitely have given up. Anyway 1.3 miles from the town centre is Brampton Old Cemetary! The new cemetary is 250 yds nearer the town.
And guess what? There are several obelisks - really big ones. I didn't have time to examine any of them and I'm tied up all weekend but I promise to visit the place again next week and if there is a camera lying round the house I'll take some pics of the old church made from stone from the roman wall. Fascinating and thank you Rewcastle.
(doing this at work)
bob
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You`re a star Bob - look forward to hearing from you next week. Have a great w/e
Cari
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Sorry Cari, went tonight and none of the obelisls were your gggr's
In fact the steps in your photo look more like the parish church in town. I'll check tomorrow. Don't despair tho'. Last week in the local paper there was someone asking where the records for the old cemetary were hiding. They were last seen when the river washed some of the bodies out of the cemetary. I'll also try Irthington when I get back. These are the old parish church built from the roman wall but when nobody knows. But there has been a church on the site since the 1200's
bob
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CARI. I FOUND IT! Ooops sorry to shout.
I found it last night. It's the poshest gravestone in Brampton! In pink granite/marble! It's laid on it's side at the entrance to the new parish church graveyard. Unfortunately it was raining so hard that I couldn't stay to write anything but there are at least 2 very legible inscriptions. Provided the rain lets up I'll call again tonight with camera and note pad. It's not broken , just split into 2 parts and the obelisk laid on it's side. Wheee!
bob
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The rain let up late on and I ventured out in my waders and souwester. Her's what it do say; Cari I think the one you want is
John, son of Edward and Margaret Pickering died at Beck Brow Jan 23 1841 aged 50 years.
But on the other two faces are
Edward Pickering died at Beck Brow Jan 13 1835 aged 78 years.
and
Margaret, wife of Edward Pickering died at Aaronstown Feb 11 1832 aged 72 years.
(Aaronstown is not my misspelling if it is a misspelling)!
Geoff can you help with the geography?
Also intersting was the fact that the plinth was resting on a vertical conventional headstone in the local sandstone so very difficult to decipher (and mostly covered by granite plinth) but words to the effect "in memory of Edward and Margaret Pickering ........
Also interesting is the roof of the church is being worked on and I wonder if these tombstones have been temporarily removed to allow access to the work. A polite letter to the vicar might elucidate.
Madame took local directory to France wth her so can't help with address.
bob
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(Aaronstown is not my misspelling if it is a misspelling)!
Map http://tinyurl.com/6nvmyj
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and beck brow? the nearest is miles away with loads of churches inbetween. Or is there a local little beck (stream) with a brow (hill) that is just an address and not a village?
bob
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Geoff'
The was a John PICKERING who died shortly before the census-
Deaths Mar 1841
PICKERING John Brampton 25 21
looks like you spotted him. see inscription.
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Geoff'
There was a John PICKERING who died shortly before the census-
Deaths Mar 1841
PICKERING John Brampton 25 21
looks like you spotted him. see inscription.
Yes, I thought that too. :)
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Geoff, I've got to shut down tomorrow cos I go to france and then we 're moving and I don't know how long it will take me to get these tinternet strings strung together again. Please reassure everybody I'm still intersted and will respond as soon as I get reconnected. ( If you'de seen the state of the new place today, whilst I was chasing tombstones, you would empathise, I'm just glad herself is over there and doesn't interest herself in these forums.
bye
bob
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Bob - I wish you well with the move - hope all goes without a hitch.
Many thanks to Geoff too for his valuable input.
I am passing on all the info to Belgium tomorrow.
Cari
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Cari,
Some time ago, I did some research for a lady in Baltimore about the PICKERING family of Brampton. If I can find this material again, would it be of any interest to you? I went through the Parish registers for Brampton, Hayton and Farlam to extract any mentions of the surname. I live in Brampton, so might be able to supply any photographs that you want.
Iain (PashP7)
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Hi Iain
Yes, I would certainly be interested in anything re the American connection. We are aware that one of the Pickerings went to America and have traced one in the 1900s but no one else. As you might be aware from the above messages, it is not really my line but I am following leads for whom we now know to be a definite descendant of these Pickerings.
Look forward to hearing from you
Cari
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Hello Cari,
Please let me have your e-mail or snail-mail address by replying to XXXXX There is so much for me to transcribe and it will take far more space than is available here.
Iain
Personal email address removed to prevent spam and other possible abuse. Please use the secure Personal Message system to exchange this information.
Moderator.
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Hello Carigreen,
We (Denise and Alan) are also descendants of John Pickering you mention in this thread at Brampton Cemetary, and we are excited to know you are researching the same family.
Any information/photos you could share with us would be greatly appreciated. We are descendants of his son (also John Pickering), brother to Edward, Alice and Mark. John Pickering lived in Lexham Gardens, Kensington, and was buried at Oakwood Cemetary near Crawley. (Some of the Tredwell family were also buried here, including Solomon Tredwell, husband of Alice Pickering).
The church was built in 122o, it is set in a wood up a hill,a pretty graveyard full of spring flowers, the grave is of a large angel, the biggest one in the grave yard, the Angel has a hand missing, and is looking slightley black, it is made of marble, the angel, with a large granite cross, the words are in lead which says In loving memory of my good Gussie Mary Augusta,
the dearly loved wife of John Pickering born August 1st 1850 and departed this life May 4th 1896 in her 46th year. Also John Pickering died January 2nd 1909 aged 77 years."Kensington 1A 159"
(Gussie is a nickname for Augusta).
Thank You
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Hi Denise and Alan - thanks for your posting. The Pickerings are not actually my line of research - only in relation to Solomon Tredwell. Now I think about it, I`m not sure I knew where Solomon was buried so if you could give any more info on that I would be really grateful, and you also mention other Tredwells buried there?
I knew that John Pickering married 'Gussie' but cannot find them on the 1891 census or John on the 1901. Were they living abroad perhaps?
Where are you I wonder? If you could mail me direct at carigreen and that is with aol then that would be great.
Look forward to hearing from you
Cari
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Hi Cari, many thanks for your replies.
Sorry for the delay from our part. My father passed away recently and the funeral is this Friday so I have little time to view this at present. Denise has flown to Canada for a couple weeks, but will return after xmas. I will keep checking this website, so please keep in contact.
The cemetery is near Crawley, Sussex, England, not America. I have a photo of the Pickering Grave, and a leaflet of the Cemetery, If I can find them, I will pass on a copy to you. The person to contact at the cemetery is Mrs / Dr Bridny Thomas, C/O The PARISH OFFICE, THE RECTORY, STAINS ST, OLKLEY RH5 5SY. I am sure she will be able to pass on any information you need of other members of the Tredwell family buried here.
There is a family crypt at Brompton Cemetery in London I have yet to visit. I am unsure if there are any Tredwell family buried here. The crypt is in the private part and to visit is by appointment only.
John Pickering was living at 110 lexham gardens, South Kensington. I have a copy of the 1901 census, and the 1891 census and he is on both. One of my family tells me he also had houses in Italy and Greece, although I still need to research this. Mary Augusta passed away May 4th 1896, at the age of 46.
I will continue to use this website (I am new to rootschat), and I and Denise will be more active after the Christmas period.
Alan
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Hi Alan - I wonder if you are up and running again yet?
I have been in touch with Briony who claims there are no Tredwells in the graveyard but she is interested in the Pickerings as apparently John was a very generous benefactor to the church but they don`t know why as he wasn`t from that area.
If you can contact me directly now that would be great.
Many thanks
Cari
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Hello, please you could have a look in the Brampton grave yard for me, I'm looking for some ancestors who came from that region with the surname Wills.
any help would be greatly appreciated thankyou :)
Laura
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Just so you don't think everybody is ignoring you, it was mainly me that trawled BrAmpton graveyard ( not BrOmpton as the above few posts seem to imply) but I no longer live near Brampton, Cumbria. In fact I spend most of my time abroad so it's up to some other kind soul to help. bob
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sorry, Laura, I've checked the MIs and there are no gravestones for any WILLS family.
(We recorded all the MIs at Brampton Old Church and Brampton St Martins recently, they've just been published on CD by the Cumbria FHS)
Possibly they might have been buried at Farlam, rather than Brampton, since some of the WIlls family were baptised there?
cheers
robbiesmum
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robbiesmum, remember there are 3 graveyards in Brampton now. The old one out by the original church, intermediate one next to church and "modern" one out near old one. bob
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Both of the old graveyards are covered in Robbiesmum's mammoth transcription. I am fairly certain I have seen Wills gravestones in St Thomas a'Becket Church, Farlam. Will check but can't get there till middle of next week. There is a transcript of Farlam gravestones in Carlisle Archives Centre.
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Hi Bob
we tried to transcribe all the gravestones in the Brampton churchyards before 1964 - that being the date the new cemetery opened.
In 1965, a landslip at the old church led to several graves at the old church being exhumed and re-interred in the new cemetery - so we also transcribed any pre 1964 gravestones in the new cemetery, as they may have been moved from the old churchyard.
but no WILLS family in any pre 1964 gravestones that we found
cheers
robbiesmum
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Hi Robbiesmum,
My grandfather was one of the people affected by the landslip and I've been unable to find where his remains were moved to - I had assumed it was to another part of the same graveyard. He was John Edwin Simpson who died in 29 December 1957. Are the transcriptions online anywhere?
Best wishes,
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
I was told (though I don't know how accurate that is) that all those moved had been transferred to the new cemetery - though not all their gravestones were, as some were too wide. The newspaper accounts of the time don't mention any being moved to elsewhere in the Old Church, only those moved to the new cemetery.
if you visit the new cemetery there is an area which has nearly all the older stones (before 1964), and a few spaces with no gravestone, so I'd assumed that was probably also for people moved from the old churchyard but without a gravestone.
either way, we didn't see a stone for your grandfather, sorry.
best wishes
robbiesmum
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I remember a skull being found downstream and it causing a bit of a fuss till someone worked out that it had probably washed out of the old graveyard. bob
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There is a gravestone at St Thomas a Becket Church, Farlam which reads:
In loving memory of James, son of Jonathan and Mary Wills who died at Coalfell on 11 July 1862 aged 2 years and five months. Also of Elizabeth granddaughter of the above born 12 January 1863, died 19 January 1866. Also the above Mary who died 29 February 1888 aged 73. Also the above named Jonathan who died at Coalfell on 21 January 1891, aged 71 [could be aged 77, very difficult to read].
As far as I am aware, this is the only stone at Farlam referring to the Wills family.
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Thankyou for the responses :) you have all helped a lot :) and thankyou Clearly, thouse are the Wills that I'm looking for also is there a grave stone for a Jane Wills? and any other with the same name, could you suggests were I could look for were the other family members would be buried. Would you be so kind as to upload a photo for me so I can show my fathering law. Thankyou so much for your help.
Laura
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I can't say absolutely that this is the only gravestone for the Wills family as there are quite a number of stones that have fallen over. This was the only one I could find and I have checked at the Archives today and it is also the only one recorded in the 1989 transcription by John Robinson. Of course there may be other Wills in the churchyard who do not have a headstone. I will check the burial registers for you later this week.
Other parishes that are adjoining or close by are Lanercost, Nether Denton, Over Denton, Brampton (none there), Hayton and Castle Carrock.
I have noted that there seem to be a lot of Wills in the Burgh-by-Sands to Kirkbride area of Cumbria.
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Hi I wonder if anyone could help me with finding my great grandfathers grave, I came across these posts whilst searching for churchyards in Brampton, Cumbria.
I am looking for a John Mason, died in 1942, belived to have died in Brampton. He would have been about 55. I am also looking for a grave for my great grandmother a Jane Boyd who died in 1963, belived to have been in the Brampton area as well.
If anyone can help I would be very grateful
thank you
Carole
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Hi Carole
yes, there is a gravestone at Brampton old church for John Mason ( I should have a photo somewhere if you can't visit the churchyard yourself)
In loving memory of my dear husband John MASON died at Brampton 17 Feb 1942 aged 55 years.
but I can't see anything for Jane Boyd.
cheers
robbiesmum
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Hi Robbies mum,
that was quick and thank you very much for that. I am actually trying to get across to Brampton in the next week, so is it the old Churchyard I need?
The thing with the name of Jane Boyd, is that we can find no record of the marriage between the two of them, they had 10 children together, and travelled between Dumfries and Brampton all the time they were together. I am beginning to think they may have got married and she did eventually change her name to Mason.
Once again thank you very much, it has helped me fill in a gap on the family tree.
Carole
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yes, its in the old churchyard.
if you go down the path to the bottom of the hill, its in the newer nsection on your right, in the second row from the front.
its possible Jane was also buried here but not on the inscription, or the inscription is buried, so its worth going to Carlisle library or record office when you're visiting, and checking the burial register for Brampton which ends in about 1963.
cheers
robbiesmum
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hi robbiesmum
thank you, I will let you know how it goes.
Carole
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Hi robbiesmum
Found John Masons grave exactly where you said, thank you. Just have to find out what happened to Jane now, she is proving very elusive.
thanks
Carole
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My ancestors emigrated to USA from Farlam in the early 1840's, and I also live in the USA. I have a record for George Storey being buried at St. Thomas A. Becket in Farlam on August 27, 1821. I am trying to piece together several Storey and Engleby/Ingleby ancestors and any other old gravemarkers in that cemetery would probably help me tie them together. Is there somewhere online that might have a photo of George Storey's grave marker? Thanks. Jen