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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: colmain on Monday 21 July 08 10:16 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone, new to this site so hope I get it right!
Researching Mains starting with Rbt b1822c, from where I dont' know, father John.
Rbt marr Mary Jane MARTIN Lemington/Newburn 1843.
2 sons that I am aware of - John & Rbt b 1855 Newcastle.
Rbt marr Eliza STEAD(CULLEY) 1879 Stockton. Children- Mary Jane, Violet, Geo, Eleanor, Emily, Eliza Ann, Daisy Matilda & Rbt b 1895. There was also a Joseph H S Mains, believed to be Eliza's son from her first marriage.
Families that the Mains' married into include Monet,King, Hall, Graham, Mitchell, Harris Steel & Long.
Rbt b1895 moved down to Bristol where he married and had a son also a Rbt - my husband's father!
My husband Rbt emigrated to Australia late 1960's & we now live in Bunbury W Australia.
I have been researching for the past 10 years - didn't realise there were so many Mains' out there!
Hope someone out there might have a connection with the above!
Col
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Hi Col
Welcome to Rootschat. I hope that you will get a lot of useful information from the members, who seem to have overlooked your post.
I think you have put your query in the right place although a link to the Northumberland look-ups might help with the early history.
I have found the index entry for the marriage(s) of Robert Mains and Mary Jane Martin on Freebmd. It is
Marriages Apr-Jun 1843 Castle Ward 25 245
Castle Ward was an extensive largely rural district in Northumberland and NW of Newcastle upon Tyne. It included the parish of Newburn.
The marriage certificate (available from the GRO for 7 UK pounds) should give you Robert's occupation and address at the time of marriage, his father's name and occupation, Mary Jane's address, and her father's name and occupation. It will also tell you where the wedding was held and give the names of the witnesses, who may be relatives.
I looked for Robert and Mary Jane in the 1851 census and did not find them. However, there was a Robert Mains, 31, labourer, born in Ireland; wife Mary Ann, 25, born in Down,Ireland; son John, 2, born in Newcastle and daughter, Frances, 1 month, also born in Newcastle. They were living in Forth Terraces, St Nicholas, Newcastle upon Tyne. (HO 107 2406 405 p9).
I shall have a look later to see if I can find your family in the later censuses.
All the best
Gobbo
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A couple of baptisms from Newcastle, St. John.
23 July 1848, John Mains, Parents - Robert, Labourer, and Mary Jane, of Forth Banks.
April 7 1851, Frances Mains, Parents - Robert, Labourer, and Mary Jane, of Forth Banks.
Forth Banks is mingled on the same pages as Forth Terrace on the 1851 census. Looks like the family in Forth Terrace in 1851 are the right ones.
THE IGI has a baptism of a Robert Maines at Newcastle St. Nicholas, 31 March 1856, parents Robert and Mary Jane.
Mary Jane was widowed and remarried George Allen, March 1868, Stockton.
In 1871 census, George and Mary Jane are living in Stockton, with John Mains, age 21 b. Newcastle, and Robert Mains, 16, b. Newcastle. Mary Jane is also given as born Newcastle.
Alan.
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Unusually, the Bishops Transcripts has the whole marriage details for Robert and Mary Jane :
May 29 1843, Newburn Parish Church.
Robert Mains, of full age, bachelor, Labourer, residing in Lemington, father John Mains, Weaver.
Mary Jane Martin, minor, spinster, residing in Lemington, father David Martin, Labourer.
Witnesses are John Cal... can't read it, might be Calvert, and William Moore.
Alan.
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Hi Gobbo & Alan
Thanks for your welcome, and info to date.
Alan has been able to expand on the marriage details of Rbt & Mary Jane so that's been a great help from you both.
I do have the printout of the 1851 census for the Rbt & Mary Ann you mentioned and did wonder if "Ann" should read "Jane"??
Looking at Alan's reply with Frances' birth record & address matching I think Mary Ann & Mary Jane might be one & the same eh?
Sorry but I probably should have mentioned I have the following census -
1871 Mary Jane & Geo ALLAN, Rbt & John MAENS - Stockton
1881 Mary Jane & Geo, Geo, & John MAINES - Stockton
1881 Rbt b1856c, wife Eliza, Mary J & Violet - Stockton
1891 Mary Jane & Geo, Fanny & Geo - Stockton
1891 Rbt b1856c, wife Eliza & 7 children - Hartlepool
1901 Rbt b1856c,wife Eliza & 4 children - W Hartlepool
In all of them Mary Jane's place of birth is listed as Newcastle except for the 1851 of Mary Ann??
I notice that 1861 census Cramlington Tynemouth has a John MEANS b1849 Newcastle boarding with Andrew MARTIN bIreland & wife Ellen.
Could this be my John's rellies - Mother Mary Jane was a MARTIN!
Have also found an Andrew & Mary Jane MARTIN 1841 census N Upon Tyne, Hanover Street, born Ireland - Husband & Wife/ Brother & Sister??
Also have the following births but not sure if they all belong to the same parents.
There seems to be 3 x John's - with the new addition of Frances being born in 1851, same year as one of the "John's"!
Are there perhaps 2 Rbt's & Mary Jane's as parents - any thoughts on this?
John MAINES Bap Mar 1845 St Nicholas N U Tyne - Rbt & Mary Jane
Sarah MAINS Bap Nov 1845 " " " "
Margaret MAINS Bap Sep 1846 " " " "
Mary Ann MAINS Bap Oct 1853 St John's " "
John MAINS Bap Jul 1848 " " "
John MAINS Reg 4th Quart 1851 Tynemouth "
Robert MAIN Reg 1st Quart 1855 N U Tyne "
Robert MAINES Bap Mar 1856 St Nicholas N U Tyne "
Sorry that this is so long winded but thought it best to put it all in a nutshell now, to save wasting you both your time looking up records I already have to hand!
Thanks again,
Col :)
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Hi Col & Wolf
Given the baptism records for Robert and Frances, the 1851 census for Robert and Mary Ann is almost certainly the record for Robert and Mary Jane. Given that in all the other censuses Mary is described as born in Newcastle the 1851 birth record for her is wrong. Presumably this is an enumerator error and the intention may have been to record Robert's birthplace as Down, Ireland. There is an IGI record for the baptism of Robert MAYNE on 28 Sep 1819 at Ballyhalbert, Down, Ireland and the parents are listed as John Echlin MAYNE and Jane LOUGHLIN. It should be worth chasing this up to see the original extract, which may give John Echlin's occupation.
I did notice the John Means record in the 1861 census but failed to twig the significance of the name Martin. I was thinking that John Mains was probably the 14 year-old cow keeper at Heaton Farm. (RG9 3834 50 p2). This Robert's birth is recorded as Heddon rather than Newcastle but this may just reflect the boy's lack of knowledge about his birth. I think Heddon was part of the Castle Ward district where Robert and Mary Jane married.
All the best
Gobbo
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Thanks Gobbo, shall chase up Rbt born in Down Ireland and see what I can come up with! Also the John Means/Mains 1861 census bit!
Much appreciated.
Col
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There seems to be 3 x John's - with the new addition of Frances being born in 1851, same year as one of the "John's"!
Are there perhaps 2 Rbt's & Mary Jane's as parents - any thoughts on this?
Hi Col
It can be tricky constructing families from baptism records. Quite often children were not baptized until they were 2 or even older. I imagine some diligent clergyman would discover unbaptized children and then arrange to do the lot on one day. In addition the birth date is often not recorded. After Sep 1837 I tend to rely on the statutory register of births. However very few of the 1840s crop of Mains seem to have been registered so that is no great help. You really need to squeeze as much information as you can from the baptism records. Quite a few of these are available on line in the Diocese of Durham Bishop's Transcripts, which you can access at
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;c=1309819;t=browsable;w=
I did notice in the transcripts for the Heddon baptisms a record of a single woman called Mains giving birth to a child in the workhouse. She may have had other unbaptized children outside the workhouse and the John Mains born in Heddon (in the 1861 census) may be one of those. This genealogy can be confusing!
All the best
Gobbo
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I think you can count out the possibility of there being two Robert/Mary Janes.
There was a tragically high infant mortality rate in those days.
Looking at deaths on FreeBMD for Newcastle there are :
Dec qtr 1845, Sarah Mains,
Sep qtr 1846, John Mains,
Dec qtr 1846, Margaret Mains,
Largely ties in with the baptised children of Robert and Mary Jane prior to 1851, who were not present in 1851 census.
Alan.
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Hi Gobbo & Alan
Thanks for the latest info & suggestions, I seem to be at last going somewhere since joining Rootschat and finding helpful genealogists only too willing to help & advise!
Would you believe I have just received copy Rbts(b1855) birth cert in post and there I have it - the family address being Wall(i)ers High Yard, Forth Banks - 1851 census confirmation!! Rbt snr was employed as a Lead Factory Labourer.
Also just discovered the Family Search pilot section on Durham Transcripts the other day but have not had a chance to do a reallly good search, just managed to do a bit of a scroll through the Newburn registers, so hopefully on my days off can take a better look at these - how lucky that Durham was chosen for the pilot programme!
I have 2 Rbt Mains' died (1) 1865 Gateshead district - reg 1st quarter and
(2) 1855 Durham district - reg last quarter
So I imagine it'd be more than likely the 1856 death to check out first though I guess there's always the slight possibility that Rbt died while Mary Jane was still pregnant with the young Rbt.
Thanks too for the deaths of Sarah, John & Margaret.
Prob explains why I haven't been able to track down the 2 girls anywhere!
Thanks a million once again, I'm now off to "google" Wallers High Yard & see what it brings up. And then it's back into the records.
Col
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Hi Col
The Bishop's transcripts (Diocese of Durham) on line are a tremendous boon for those of us with ancestors who lived in Durham and Northumberland. However, there are little gaps in the records, either where a priest did not make the required return or where some archivist has lost a few pages. I was quite frustrated, having slogged through several years of Chester le Street baptisms to realise that two of my ancestors had been baptised in the two periods that were missing. Fortunately, the Durham Record Office has most of the original registers and they will send a photocopy of one entry for 5 UK pounds. Or if you are lucky you may find a rootschatter who is visiting the record office and will transcribe the entry for you.
All the best
Gobbo
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Hi Col
The 1901 census return showed Robert Mains living in Melbourn Rd and this flummoxed me since despite having lived in W. Hartlepool I could not find it. However, looking at the description of the enumeration district it evidently lies in the rectangular space between Raby Road, Chester Road, Jesmond Road and Hart Lane. This space is largely the old town cemetery with a few streets around the edges. I believe the cemetery, which is elevated above the surrounding land was originally the dump for spoil from the excavation of the docks. There is no modern street there with the name Melbourn. Durham County Council provide an on line mapping of the county including some old maps, see
http://www.durham.gov.uk/durhamcc/usp.nsf/pws/gis+-+online+mapping
I have looked at the 1919-1926 map and I think that Melbourn Road is either the row of buildings on the NE side of the cemetery, behind Tweed Street or else the row at the SW side, whose name I cannot read but might be Melbourn (The modern name is Jesmond Mews). The housing in the area was nearly all small terraced houses and the census describes Robert's house as having just three rooms. I presume that as a marine engine fitter Robert would have been employed in the docks and he would have walked to work quite easily along Hart Lane and on to Middleton Road.
All the best
Gobbo
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Hullo Gobbo
Thanks for the map info, had a look and can see the area you've mentioned. Yes some street names are quite easy to read but others not so.
Also picked up on Topcliffe St, just SW of the cemetery square below Hart Lane. That's where I found Rbts daughter, Mary Jane MONET & family in 1901. Her husband was a shipyard lab also.
Have you heard of Wall(i)ers High Yard at Forth Banks? Just curious - couldn't bring anything up on google.
Many thanks
Col
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Hi Col
I am not at all familiar with the development of Newcastle so may not be the best person to ask about Walliers yard.
Looking for old maps of Newcastle brought up
http://www.tomorrows-history.com/mapping/maps.htm
The oldest map showing the Forth banks area was the 1894-1899 map - the earlier 1856-1865 is sadly blank North of the Tyne. The 1890s map shows Forth Banks and Forth Street but is missing Forth terrace where Robert Mains dwelt in 1851.
The description of the 1851 enumeration district (St Nicholas, 2e) describes it as "All that part of the Parish of St Nicholas comprising East side of Forth Banks, Regent Street and Forth Terrace as far as the corner of Forth street. (added in a different hand) down to Hawthorns stairs.
I did wonder if some of he Forth addresses were pulled down to make way fro the railway station but according to Wikipedia this ran from 1845 to 1850 when the Central Station opened. So that did not explain the missing streets.
I have looked in
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/
for a Directory close to the enumeration date and found Wards 1850 Directory of Northumberland and Durham. This includes a guide to the streets of Newcastle. (From the home screen select find by location, select Northumberland, select page 2 of the list and click Directory at the right hand end of the Wards 1850s title line. When the frontispiece comes up click browse directory and then go to image 133, which should put you in the middle of the street directory and then go to next or previous as you wish. The site is tediously slow at the moment so you will need patience.) The street directory includes the following
Forth banks, west end of the Close to Cattle Market
Forth row, Forth banks
Forth street, head of the Postern
Forth terrace, Forth street
Postern, foot of Westgate street to Forth street
Regent street, Forth terrace
Forth banks runs from the Close to the cattle market, passing the west end of the Central Station, and its route is more or less unchanged up to modern times. Forth terrace and Regent street were listed in the Directory as parts of Forth street, which is the modern street running along the south side of the station. The old city walls ran up behind Orchard street and so probably East of Orchard street was the Postern (signifying the former presence of a gate in the wall). This means that in 1851 Robert Mains was living just South of the Central Station. Wards 1850 Directory lists quite a few yards in the street directory but unfortunately not Walliers high yard.
There are some pictures of Newcastle Central Station at
http://www.newcastle-arts-centre.co.uk/Exhibition__Preview.htm
Forth street can be seen on the left of the 1962 picture of the station from the roof of the keep and also on the right of the 1972 aerial view. It looks as if the housing had been bulldozed by 1972 since the space seems to be mainly car-parking.
All the best
Gobbo
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Hi Gobbo
Thanks ever so much for all the hard work & time you have put in!
Being a Sunday I am a bit pressed for time but have printed out your info & when time allows tomorrow I will digest it all & look up the websites you have mentioned. I would think it will give me a fairly good picture of the area & its surrounds - second best to not being able to actually be there in person!
You mentioned about the being patient bit with the tediously slow site - I think that is something we genealogists have to accept at times - a good reason for a bit of a stretch & break from the screen eh!
Thanks
Col :)
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Hi Col
To cut a long story short my cousins husband is the nephew of your husbands dad. He asked me to look at his tree and I agree with you up until the marriage of Robert Mains and Eliza Stead, I thought the marriage was Robert Mains to Eliza Stewart? I am also looking for the marriage between Robert Mains and ? Long do you have this information? I thought that your Robert b1917 his mother was Alice Winter and the Long mother was the mother of William who my cousins husband is descended from he also told me he had an aunty but did not know anymore. He can't remember meeting any of the Mains family other then his own.
Bye 4 now
Bristol
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Hello, I'm guessing that through you I'm looking at one of Williams line, Bryan or Allen perhaps?
Definitely Rbt = Eliza STEAD (ref:marr cert, birth cert)
Rbt b1895 = Alice Rose LONG 1.9.1915.
Haven't come across a WINTER anywhere. Williams wife was an Alice herself, her maiden name wasn't Winter was it??
Leave that with you as just on way to work, wait to get your comments on above!
Col
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Hi Col
Al is married to my cousin and his mothers name wasn't Winter I got the Winter from a marriage between Robert Mains and Alice Winter in 1916 in Hartlepool, I thought that your Robert had a different mother to William his being Alice Long. I'm now going to retrace his tree so it's a case of back to the drawing board for me. One other query I also thought Mary Jane Mains married William Cheesebrough and not Monet as I can't find them on the 1901 census.
Bye 4 now
Bristol
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Yes there was a Mary Jane married a Cheeseborough too. My MJ appears on the 1901 census with husband Alexander in west hartlepool St Paul rg13 piece4639 folio 48 page 38.
Col
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I knew the "Winter" rang a bell somewhere!! Just gone back thru' my notes & found her!
Rbt b1855 = 1) Eliza STEAD in 1879, = 2) Alice WINTER(LOW) in 1916
Eliza died in 1910c. Alice's 1st marr had been to a Mr Winter.
That might clear things up a bit, I can see where the confusion was now.
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Hi Col
Al and family would like to be remembered to you, they are living in France now and in the land of peace and happiness. I'm still plodding on with the tree.
Bye 4 now Bristol
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Hi, thanks for message from Al. My Robert's brother Terry lived in France also up until about 6 years ago. Was in Rouffignac - Bordeaux area. Then went to Spain where he has a coupe of houses but is now back living in Bedfordshire area.
Keep in touch as you keep researching - give us a bell if you come across anything new or perhaps get stuck with anything - as they say, 2 heads are better than 1 sometimes!!
Regards Col