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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Charlie08 on Saturday 19 July 08 10:01 BST (UK)
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Would there have been any ships to NZ around 1838. My 4x great grandfather Robert Bruce was born in Canongate, Scotland around 1815 and married a NZ Maori woman in 1838. So he must have sailed over here prior to his marriage. Can anyone help regards ships that came here around that time.
Charlie
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Hi Charlie
Do you know where they got married as it might give a clue as to which port he arrived into.
Did they marry 21 November?
Bren.
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Found this website:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shipstonz/shipstonz.html
Hopefully of some use?
Actually... just had a read over it - they seem to be just the major passenger ships and appear to be from 1839-1840 at the earliest... Sorry :(
There was definitely contact much earlier, so there must have been transport to NZ much earlier...
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Hi Charlie and Bren
Just including marriage details - the Maori surname might provide a further clue (tribal affliation = location) ?
> Robert BRUCE
Hikirangi WHAUTERE
Year - 1838 [Folio NZSG 17477]
Source: NZSG collection
Lu
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Thanks everyone. And yes they were married on 21 Nov. I am presuming that Robert came out alone, but have no proof. I think it would have been too early for his parents to have come out with him as a child as they had 6 children that I know of.
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Do you know where they got married as it might give a clue as to which port he arrived into?
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Hi Kiwibren
Yes, they got married in Kaikohe, Northland so he probably landed in Auckland.
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If you get off the track of "proper voyages" you may find he could have been aboard ships coming for timber etc.
Early books describe many different voyages and how men stayed ashore, so it may be another angle.
How much have you looked at local Kaikohe history, again museums and books will talk about early settlers and how long they had been in NZ
http://www.kaikohe.co.nz/History.cfm
Looking at local history, possibilities could have been involvement with Samuel MArsden, others they mention ships stopping for provisions..
Searching the NZSG library
http://www.genealogy.org.nz/Search_the_Library_219.aspx there are several books availble on early Kaikohe
Sorry to go off on a side track but may give answers on arrival on settlers
Bye
Althea
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Hi Charlie
How about giving us more information about his wider family so we can rule them in or out.
(Which in turn may provide the key.)
Parents names
Father’s occupation
Siblings names and DOB
Also his occupation.
Have you found his parents and 5 siblings in the 41, 51, 61, Census in Scotland?
Bren
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Another thought, ??already covered, when did he die?
Does death cert/MI give exact time in NZ
Obituary in newspaper???
Bye
Althea ;)
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He died on the the 28th July 1895. That is the information I have got from the LDS. Have only just started on this so have no death or marriage certificates yet.
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Get his death certificate, will provide some good info.
:)
and he probably landed in Russell or even Hokianga !
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Hi Charlie
Just a word of caution.
The entry on the IGI is submitted by a member, therefore not necessarily correct.
There appear to be many Robert BRUCE’s in NZ about that time.
Here’s a few more death entries that could be him….
Apr 74, Wellington
Sep 76, Auckland
Apr 84, Auckland
Jul 94, Auckland.
Bren.
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Hi Charlie08
You may think we are strange starting with the death but can often give you best clues and work backwards
There are appears to be an early ROBERT BRUCE buried near Kaikohe
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 56
Record Type B/R
Year of Death N/R
Surname BRUCE
Given Names Robert
Age N/R
Location Kohukohu Burial Records A04-13
Good places to start looking for cem info is
http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cem_Northland.html
The wife may have been morelikely buried at her marae.
Getting this info will more accurately get you the arrival year
Bye
Althea
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If you look more at the LDS submissions that gave you the clue on the marriage to Robert Bruce,
they believe that this Robert Bruce was born in NZ
Birth: Abt. 1820
<Waimate North, Bay Of Islands, New Zealand>
A tree was started 2003 on this family at world connect
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2376775&id=I513515209
Re the cemetery, if you can get to a Library and look at the NZSG fiche
the number for this cemetery AWARUA is ul064
Location: Mangakahia Rd, Awarua
Council: Far North District
Province: Northland
Administration: Maori, Mormon
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Thank you all so much for your help. He is buried at Mangakahia RD,near Kaikohe. Will get some closer family to go and check out the gravesite for more information.
I have his father as James Bruce who marrried Agnes Henderson.on the 24th Jan 1806 at Leith South parish Scotland. I have found 6 other siblings, William, Jane Agnes,Walter and Henry.
I will try and get a copy of his marriage and death certificates.
I really appreciate all the help given. It is a bit daunting starting this but so adddictive too.
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Not much info on the marriages in those days, :(
Go for the death, but make sure you are working from known backwards, ie make sure the Bruce is yours, :)
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Kia ora tatou: Robert Bruce is buried at a cemetry named Te Pua, on Managakahia Road, Kaikohe. The lane access to the cemetry is almost directly across the road from Kohewhata Marae. He has a very nice kohatu with a Scotch Thistle on it. If wanting to visit, any of the homes around the marae area will direct you to the cemetry, as it is not visible from the road.
The whanau of Te Haua Witehira put out a book some years ago for their reunion and that book gives a good overview of Robert Bruce and his wife Hikirangi, amongst other whanau informatiion. I have a copy of a letter writtten to the War Office by Robert Bruce, enquiring after his medal. As a youngster I attended whanau hui where this medal was discussed with gusto, although its whereabouts seems a mystery. The whanau have one photo of him (he would have been quite old, as he has an almost grey beard) and most of the older whanau members (like me) have a copyh of this.
I have a copy of Hikirangi's death certificate. I believe she is actually interred at Ngawha Settlement at the church there, where her second partner, Kauwhata, is also buried.
It's my belief that Robert Bruce came to NZ with his mother, Agnes Henderson and she became a laundress at the Waimate North Mission House. He must have fought in the Maori Wars. He had children to Hikirangi - all were registered at the Waimate North Mission House. However, I believe that his daughter Agnes (who married Witehira) was the only one who had issue.
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I share this info with you, as locally, the whanau - the Witehira whanau who are well-known in Kaikohe and Mataraua - collectively have reasonably good information on this ancestor. Other local whanau who can whakapapa to Robert Bruce are: Tau, Ashby, WiHongi - and there are plenty of us around Kaikohe!
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Is the reunion book that is mentioned available to purchase? I would be interested in obtaining a copy or making a copy of an existing one. Thanks
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Robert Bruce did fight in the northern wars 1845-46. I have his medal in my collection as well as his military file and some research