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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Topic started by: marco12 on Tuesday 10 July 07 17:00 BST (UK)
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I would like to contact anyone in Guernsey who have family history connections to the Bird family. Have info to share.
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Hi
My great great great grandmother Mary Bird was born in Guernsey around 1815.She subsequently lived in Newark (Notts) where she had a couple of sons out of wedlock who took her surname she then married a George Cobb.Do you have any info as this is my brick wall although there may be a connection with Cardiff.Let me Know.
Kind Regards
Anthony
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Hi Anthony....Sorry to say that my Mother's family moved to Guernsey in the 1830's, so unlikely to be part of Mary Bird family...Better luck next time Mike
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Thanks
If you hear or stumble acroos anything let me know
Anthony
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Hello there,
I am trying to trace Susan or Suzanna Matilda BIRD born Guernsey c1802 her father was William a ship's agent who settled Cardiff, WLS by 1829.
Thanks,
Nev
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Hi
I think my Mary's father was a William Bird (she did name two of her sons William) and I think he came from Cardiff. There was a John Bird who ran a ship between Cardiff and the Channel Islands and I think his son was a William.Have you come across the name Watkin or Watkins at all.Please keep in touch and if possible let me know as much as you can about the Bird family you are researching and we can see if there is any common ground.
Regards
Anthony
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Hi Anthony....The trouble is the name "Bird" is very common....almost as bad as Smith or Jones....I assume you have tried research in Guernsey. If not try <priaulx.library@gov.gg> The staff are very helpful and their charges very reasonable. Sorry I have no connection to Mary Bird.....regards Marco
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Hi Nev...Sorry but my connection to Guernsey began in the 1830's....Can I suggest you try an e-mail...<priaulx.library@gov.gg> The staff are very helpful and charges very reasonable..regards Marco
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Thank you for the suggestion Marco12
yes, these Smith's and Jones' and Bird names are a curse
Nev
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Hi Nev,I believe my gggrandmother Eliza Bird, born Guernsey c. 1805, married Cardiff c.1828, may be a sister of Suzannah Matilda Bird.She married William Thomas and migrated to Australia with four of her children in 1855. Was a music teacher. Died 1893.Father was William Bird, mother Sarah Nash. Ceronn.
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Hello Ceronn,
Thanks for the reply.
It is certainly a possibility they are linked but how to prove it?
I see you have a mother's name for your Eliza how were you able to find that?
Is Eliza in the 1851 census?
Nev
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Hi Nev,I believe my gggrandmother Eliza Bird, born Guernsey c. 1805, married Cardiff c.1828, may be a sister of Suzannah Matilda Bird.She married William Thomas and migrated to Australia with four of her children in 1855. Was a music teacher. Died 1893.Father was William Bird, mother Sarah Nash. Ceronn.
Hello Nev,
I think Eliza is on the 1841 census but have not seen the details.
The information is from Eliza's dc.,given by her third son, Alfred Nash Thomas.His age is given as 6yrs. on the ship,s manifest in Sept. 1855.Died 3.6.1900 aged 53.Children were Albert, William Bird,Sophia Ann, matilda, Sophia Eliza,and Arthur Augustus.
Father's occupation is given as merchant. Some of the Nash family were shipping agents.
Alfred Nash Thomas married Alice Bird,b.1855, daughter of John Goodwin Bird of Coity, Glamorgan,a second or third cousin.
John Bird's diary has an entry 1826 stating that Eliza Bird had returned from Guernsey. From the dc it seems likely that the family left Guernsey between 1810 and 1813.[Napoleonic time]This entry could refer to a second visit.Have you considered that George Augustus Bird b. 1803 in Guernsey, a printer of 20 Charles St. may be a brother. regards Ceronn
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Thanks for the info.
Have found Eliza, William in 1851 census but no luck with the '41
have not followed George Augustus
I am confused enough already
Nev
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I don't wish to confuse, but many families left Guernsey from 1805 onwards, and some who settled in Cardiff were related to families established there. The book'Printing and printers in Wales and Monmouthshire' by Ifano Jones, William Lewis 1925, mentions the Bird family, descendants of John Bird painter and guilder who came to Glamorgan about 1730, married Margaret Mashman, had a grandson John Bird 1761-1840, alderman, publisher of trade directory, etc. whose relatives continued on with printing and publishing.One of these was George Augustus b. 1803 [in Guernsey acc. to 1881 census.]According to the Cowbridge ironmonger Birds , also related, the first of this line came originally from Coventry where they were involved in the silk industry.The population of Cardiff was quite small in 1800.Should be possible to sort out the Birds.The Cowbridge Birds published a document about their firm on the net in 2005.
I have photographs of William Bird and Sarah Nash which were taken in Cardiff by photographers named Beard and brought to Australia in 1855.I don't know when they died, and so far have no familiarity with census records. Sincerely Ceronn.
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I would like to contact ceronn who left a message on 29th December 2007. I am directly related to to William Bird and Sarah Nash via the George Augustus Bird mentioned. Most interested in photographs of them taken in Cardiff which you mentioned. I have just returned from Guernsey to check records and intend to visit Cardiff later this year.
Any further information welcome.
Mary Sue
Moderator comment: topics merged
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Hi in your research did you come across a Mary Bird born in Guernsey around 1815 who subsequently moved to Newark Nottinghamshire.
Regards
Anthony Bird
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Hi Anthony.
No I did not find a Mary, however I felt there were at least two other Bird families in Guernsey. I believe my family left for Cardiff around 1810/12
Thanks for calling.
Mary Sue
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Hello Mary Sue, what a surprise! I have found Elizabith Bird Thomas and her husband William Thomas on the 1841 census and 1851 census, also the children. I had some help from the GlamorganFHS, and the death dates for William Bird and Sarah reveal that the photos we have must be some other relatives because they are of a later date. Other unknown Welsh relative photos have also been found via a distant cousin in Australia.William Bird died in 1848, buried at St.Johns Cardiff and Sarah died earlier in 1837.In 1851 our family was running a hotel in Aberavon and my g.grandfather William Bird Thomas was 12 years old. What happened I don't know. I have not found a death date for William Thomas who did not come to Australia.We must exchange more information. Sincerely Ceronn.
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Hello Ceronn. It was so nice to hear from you this morning. I was staying in Guernsey 2 weeks ago with my husband and visited the Priaulx library to try and research further George Bird born 1803 in Guernsey. He was my gggrandfather. The staff were extremely helpful and passed on to us the messages you and others were having around Nov/Dec 07. You may well have moved on since then but I will tell you what we found out in case it is of interest. We did find George Augustus Bird born 1802, son of William Bird and Sarah Nash. We also found 5 other siblings, Sarah Maria 1794, William Knowles 1795, John Goodwin 1798, Susannah Matilda 1799 and Elizabeth 1805 ( your relation) Their parents' marriage was registered in St Peter Port Town Church marriages. It reads William Bird of Cardiff & Sara Nash of this parish were married the 14th of February 1793 - St. Valentine's Day! Thanks for info on William and Sarah's deaths. Next we plan to go to Cardiff so will visit St Johns churchyard. We are very interested in any shipping connection as we know that William Knowles Bird was a ship owner. I would be delighted to have any other information you may have. Sincerely Mary Sue.
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Although now living in Jersey, I come from Cardiff so have done a lot or research there. Before you go looking around grave yards, have a look at:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsglfhs/book2.htm
The Glamorgan FHS have transcribed most of the Church's grave yards and some of them include pictures. It may save you a lot of time.
Stewart
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Hi MarySue,Cathy Rhys, the archivist at Glamorgan FHS mentioned where William and Sarah are buried but I have not had time to look at my notes yet.She is most interested and helpfull.William was born 26.10.1767 and an estimate for Sarah is 1761. Sarah was buried 1.6.1837 St. Johns Cardiff aged 76 and William 5.7.1849.Both had been living in Eglwysilan parish, Nantgarw or Taffs Well. William was a son of John the shoemaker 1733 to 1815, and his wife Sarah nee Pace of Cardiff. John Bird's diary has a short pedigree for the family. This was published by the FHS as edited by Hilary Thomas, but it is out of print. My Sister got a copy from the library in England. The 1841 census shows William a widower of independent means living in Taffs Well and his daughter Elizabeth, her husband William Thomas and grandson William 2 years living there also.More information later. Regards Ceronn.
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William and Sarah Bird were buried in the old Adamsdown cemetery. Roath Churchyard has memorial inscriptions to John Bird 1761 to 1840 and his nephew John Bird 1816 to 1874, mayor of Cardiff 1862/3, son of James Bird and Sarah Young, also his wife Jemima who died in 1858 and his mother-in law Mary Ann Strutt who died in 1865. There is an obelisk for the first mentioned.
Regarding ships, John Bird the alderman, channel pilot etc. had a share in a schooner named 'Diana'. His grandson John Williams Bird was a mariner who died at sea off Spain in 1848. He had been educated in Guernsey acc. to the diary, so the family had a continuing association with the C.I.
Elizabeth Thomas must have had good advice re. ships, because young children often failed to survive the journey to Australia.After 1852 the ships started to improve, but I have always thought she was brave. She was actually 50 years old, although the manifest of the "Africa" states her age as 45, and the youngest child was 5.
Her cousin Elizabeth Grierson, daughter of William Knowles Bird who was mayor of Cardiff in 1850, migrated with husband and a large family to NewZealand in 1860.It is possible William Knowles Bird inherited a ship or ships from his wife's family, the Stonehewers of Carmarthen.His son Hugh Bird traded in just about everything acc. to the trade directories, and was deputy mayor under his cousin John, 1862/3.William Knowles Bird died in 1881, he had been a printer and bookseller in earlier life.
Thanks for the information from Guernsey. It made my day!
Sincerely Ceronn.
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for Ceronn and Mary Sue
was very interested to see the Bird info
you both might be interested to know that Susanna Matilda BIRD b 1799 Guernsey, dau of William & Sarah Nash marr Dr James BIRD, Jun 1829, Cardiff, issue
Emily T b 1830, Cardiff
Alfred E b 1831 Cardiff d 1857 LND unm
Caroline b 1834 Cardiff
cannot trace this Dr James Bird, b abt 1802, Cardiff according to census he practised in London, could he have been a Cowbridge Bird?
there were two other contemporary Doctors BIRD, Henry and George Gwynne, do you know anything about them?
hope you find this helpful and/or interesting
if you have scans available I would love to see the photographs mentioned earlier
Nev
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hello Nev Fouiller,
How did you know William Bird b. 1767 was a shipping agent as you mentioned earlier? William Knowles as the eldest son may have inherited any ship which he owned.
I made two mistakes in my last post, Elizabeth Grierson was a niece, not a cousin, and they migrated to NZ in 1864 on "The British Empire", a large ship.
I don't know the parents of Dr. James Bird. He could be descended from Edward b. 1773, who shifted the Ironmongery from Cardiff to Cowbridge, or from William who died 1758, brother of John b.1733. I will keep a look out.
There were two, or maybe three George Gwynne Birds, I will check my notes.
Yes I can scan some of the photos. The ones I mentioned were by a photographer in Bute St. who advertised in 1858. Portraits pre 1840 would most likely have to be paintings or similar.
thank you for the information, regards Ceronn.
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Yes! James, son of Edward Bird [ironmonger] and Mary, baptised 15th. August 1802 at St. John's church Cardiff.The address is given as Angel Street. James Bird and Susannah Matilda Bird were first cousins.
George Gwynne Bird MD, son of George Gwynne Bird and Elizabeth Priest b. 1803 Swansea??. Married 1828 to Harriet Jeffryeys nee Wilkins at Brecon, emigrated to upper Canada in 1833, tried farming. Later physician to Swansea Infirmary.Published booklet about cholera 1849. Believed in 'miasma' theory of disease. Possibly married twice. Son of same name born Swansea.circa 1844 or 5. See Burkes genealogical directory of the landed gentry 1847.See articles about cholera epidemics in Wales.
Hope this sheds some light! Ceronn.
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Hi as I posted earlier my ggggmother was born in Guernsey around 1815 the next trace of her is Newark Notts in 1833 as the unmarried mother of William Watkin Bird.This would have meant her being pregnant at 16/17.I am intrigued by the middle name Watkin which strikes me as being Welsh and there does seem to be a big connection with the Bird family and Cardiff.Perhaps Mary was something of a black sheep (she had two more sons out of wedlock by different fathers)and sent away although I have stumbled across some info stating that the channel islands were garrisoned by the Nottinghamshire regiment at some point so perhaps she ran away with one.I know the father of William Watkin was a George Rogers but know nothing else about him.Can anyone shed any light on Mary.
Thanks Anthony
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Hello Ceronn
you certainly seem to have the GLA Birds sorted out
I had a good reason for calling William a ship's agent but now I cannot find my source
sorry about that
Nev
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re George Gwynne Bird b 1803 BRE WLS
his second marr was to Mary Padley b 1807 Swansea
MARRIAGE 18 December 1841 GEORGE G.BIRD ESQ.M.D.TO MARY,DAUGHTER OF SYLVANUS PADLEY OF SWANSEA, from Cambrian Newspaper
their issue
George Gwynne b 1844
Mary Bessie b1845
Sylvanus Padley was harbourmaster and businessman
only death for Harriet Gwynne that I found was in SOM 1841 but have never been happy about this
perhaps she died Canada prompting George's ret to Wales?
Nev
p.s
just to be clear, was Edward Bird b 1773 brother to William Bird b 1767 and both sons of John Bird?
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hello Nev,
That is interesting! Gla Birds sorted out? Far from it. I know only that Harriet Bird died before 1847 because Burkes genealogy says so. Also I think one of the other Birds had a wife named Harriet.
John the shoemaker and shopkeeper born 1733 had eight sons and one daughter: John1761, Henry 1765, William Knowles1767, Richard 1770,Edward 1773, James 1775, George Pace died 1779, Joseph, and Sarah. The answer to your last question is yes. The mother of these nine children may well be interesting [Sarah Pace] I found an inscription for a Henry Pace at St John's Cardiff which describes him as a 'supervisor'. This was on line of course. I have never been to Wales.
Ceronn.
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Hi Ceronn
Firstly many apologizes for not replying to you sooner but would you believe I have been heavily involved with organizing and cooking for a Bird family get together! We had a party on Saturday 26th July in my nephew's garden for 42. Out of that number there were 29 descendants of George Augustus Bird! Thank you so much for all your information & with that I was able to update our family tree with John the shoemaker 1733-1815.
I got in rather a muddle as to who John Bird 1761-1840 is. Who was his father? Presumably James Bird was his brother.
I too would love to have a copy of John Bird's diary that the FHS published, but you said it was out of print. With you mentioning that your sister obtained a copy for you in England, can I assume you are corresponding from Australia? If so-how fascinating. I find it quite amazing that we share the same ggggrandparents in William & Sarah Bird. I too wonder what happened to William Bird Thomas aged 12 in 1851. Perhaps he went to live with a relative or maybe died before your family left for Australia or even moved away to start an apprenticeship. Look forward to hearing from you again. Mary Sue.
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Hi Mary Sue,
It was the father of William Bird Thomas who did not come to Australia and I understand that he, William Thomas b. 1816 at Bridgend, died before 1855.William Bird Augustus Thomas was a surveyor in Auckland, New Zealand in 1865 and later moved to Victoria, Australia.His son William Bird Thomas junior b. 1871 in Vic. went to the Boer war and died in Queenstown South Africa in 1940.
There are hundreds of descendants of Elizabeth Bird Thomas b. 1805 in Guernsey, living all over, and one of them was seen on t.v. the other day reporting from Bejing on the lead up to the Olympics.
The diaries of John Bird, clerk to the Marquess of Bute ,was published by the South Wales Record Society in 1987. I have not read it but my sister obt
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continuing.... inter-library loan. A portrait of John Bird, the eldest son of John the shoemaker,can be seen and copied from an article on the net about the Cowbridge Ironmongery firm. http://www.rsbird.com/about _us_main.htm The Cardiff Council Minutes, 1740-1835 transcribed by Pat Sewell 2000 are also on line and show that John the shoemaker was a son of John Bird,painter and guilder and his wife, Margaret Mashman.
Some of William Knowles Bird's descendants are also in Australia As you know he was born in 1795 in Guernsey.There has always been much to-ing and fro-ing between Australia and N.Z. And of course John Goodwin Bird's daughter, Alice ,married in Melbourne in 1879 and as a widow, ran a school for young ladies in St. Kilda, then a fashionable suburb in the 1920's.
The Glamorgan FHS website is at www.glamfhs.org.
Somehow this message got fractured, but anyway all the best Ceronn.
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HI
In your searching of Birds of Guernsey with roots in Wales have you come across William Bird born in Cardiff in 1806, listed in the 1851 England census as an Iron merchant. I believe he had at least one brother(Edward ) and 1 sister (Sarah). Some of his children -he had 11 of them ended up in the metel trades as well. He may well have been a Cowbridge Bird as some one mentioned but I have not as yet been able to trace them back from the early census info. He was rather well off as the 1851 census shows several servants. Appreciate any help given
Thanks
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re Dr James Bird
A Dr James Bird shows up in his sons death notice in 1868, it refers to him as the late Dr James Bird FRCP- Physician General of Bombay. The son Edward Gordon Bird died in Portman sq. in London
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Hello Bill
Is it the same Dr. James Bird? The Glamorgan FHS does not have an Edward Gordon Bird listed for the one who practiced in Cardiff 1830 to1831.There were many people named Bird in India.One was acting governor or whatever for a short period. (I have forgotten the exact title] .
Someone posted on genforum. genealogy.com about William Bird b. 1806.The Cowbridge article mentions that he supplied the steel for the crystal palace of Queen Victoria and Albert, so no doubt he was well off.They say he was from another branch of the family ie not James . Maybe Edward b.1773. William Jarvis listed all the children and some of their spouses.William's wife was Sarah Buck.Edward was the eldest child and a number moved to Canada. William Jarvis posted on 2.10.2007.
Ceronn.
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Hello Cerron
I listed all the children of William b 1806. James b 1829 is the oldest, Edward b 1847 and his twin brother Arthur are the 2nd and 3rd youngest. Edwards 2 sons Gerald and Cecil emigrated to Canada. The rest as far as I can tell are in England and Ireland.
The Edward b 1776 as the father of William is a new line to follow. Any suggestions.
regards
Bill
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Hi, By studying the 'short pedigree' which was included in the diary of J.B. I have ruled out Henry, John, James, and George Pace who died young. William we know is ruled out, as all born in Guernsey.That leaves Edward and Richard and Joseph.
I will see if the FHS has anything on William b.1806
I realised , after I posted, that Edward was the youngest ,
when I read more carefully.The best would be to try to find a descendant.
Ceronn.
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Hello Nev,Bill and Mary Sue,
Edward Bird b.1773 in Cardiff married Margaret Bevan on 20 Nov. 1796 in Llansannor, a small village near Cowbridge. The children were Edward b.8th. May 1798 , address Duke St. Cardiff Father's occupation plummer, mother Margaret. James b. 15.August 1802 mother Mary, father's occupation ironmonger.Address Angel Street Cardiff. William b. 10th. July 1805 , father's occupation ironmonger,Angel Street, mother Mary. Jane b. 20th. January 1808 , father's occupation ironmonger, mother Margaret, address Angel Street. Three boys and one girl baptised at St. Johns Cardiff.
William sounds like the one who did well in London.
It is thought that the names Margaret and Mary refer to the same person.
Sincerely Ceronn.
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I found this link as it relates to John Bird, son, father and grandfather, I am not sure if it clarifies or muddies the waters as to the brothers and sisters of William Bird b 1806.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/BobSanders/SOURCES.html
If nothing else it makes for interesting reading and extends the tree.
regards
Bill
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Thanks Bill,
That information is known to me, and the Cowbridge Ironmonger Birds, now up to the eighth generation, say that the grandfather, painter and guilder came from a family of artists associated with the silk industry in Coventry. According to other information about Coventry the Bird family introduced the silk industry to that city, and some of them were there at the time of the reformation in the early 16th. century.
Unless you have a definite birth date for William in 1806, I believe that the birthdate given in my previous post is the one, and we should be referring to William born 1805.I was advised that the entry for William was previously mistranslated and that is why people are still looking for him.That means he was a brother of Edward who started in the ironmongery business on the wharf at Cardiff
[Bird and Wood] and a brother of James who became a surgeon and also moved to London.
regards
Ceronn.
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Hello Mary Sue and Cerron
I have from another source that William Bird b 1805 is one of 6 children(4 sons-1 died very young and 2 daughters (1 died 1 day old) of Edward Bird and Margaret Bevan .
Edward apparently established a succesful iron mongery and plumbing business in Cowbridge. It remains in Bird ownership today - concentrating on agricultural mowing equipment.
I have asked that I may provide you additional information and am waiting for the reply. The interesting point is that the individuals wife is related to William b 1767, her great(x3)grandfather.
So it seems that we are related. regards
Mary Sue- a gathering of 29 related to George Augustus Bird WoW. would be interested in adding the names to my tree.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
That is really interesting. The surviving daughter was Jane, and I wonder who she married.A cousin James took over the Cowbridge business, and if you look up Bird's Vehicle Solutions on line and click on the section "about us"you will find a short family history and a portrait of John the diarist b.1761, entitled 'Uncle John'.Hoping to hear more...
regards Ceronn.
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Hello Cerron, Mary sue, Nev:
William (b 1767) and his children;
1.Sarah Maria Bird. Born 18 May 1794. Married James Berry - 1 son died in infancy, 1 da - Sophia, married Richard Robinson of Sunderland - no issue
2.William Knowles Bird. Born 16 Nov 1795. Died 1881. Married Margaret Stonehewer of Caermarthen. William and Margaret are both buried at the church of St Brides, Glam-y-mor Southerndown Nr Bridgend. William was for many years Postmaster of the town of Cardiff and was Mayor of the town at the time of the first Eisteddfodd. 1 son (Hugh Stonehewer (1826 - 1890) married Ellen Slark - 2 sons 2 da; 3 Da -i) Elizabeth, married John Grierson, 10 children, emigrated to New Zealand in 1863, ii) Margaret Stonehewer (1831 - 1895) married Robert Hendeweik of Dantzic, Prussia, no issue and iii) Sarah who died unmarried.
3.John Goodwin Bird. Born 21 Jan 1798. Died Cardiff. Married i) Ellen Groves of Guernsey, 1 son John lost at sea ii) Marrianne Stevens of Bridgend, 2 sons i) William died aged 19, ii) Charles died 1891, married Margaret Bellinger of Swansea , 4 children; 2 da i) Frances - died young and ii) Alice married a cousin of William Thomas, several children, emigrated to Australia
4.Susannah Matilda. Born 26 Dec 1799. Died 17 Dec 1867. Married in Cardiff to James Bird (1802 - 1874), Surgeon, her 1st cousin and son of Edward Bird (1773 - 1848), 2 sons i) Alfred - died aged 20 ii) James, married, 1 son 1 da ;and 2 da i) Emily Theresa. Married Jasper Wilson Johns MP for Nuneaton. 3 sons & 3 da
Caroline. Married Clement Richard Waldron (1826 - 1906) Solicitor and Diocesan Registrar, Llandaff. 2 Sons 2 Da.
5.George Augustus. Born 10 Apl 1802 in Guernsey. Settled in Cardiff 1818 Died 15 July 1890. Married in Cardiff Jane Bird (1808 - 1874), his first cousin & da of Edward Bird (1773 - 1848). Given freedom of the Borough at age of 21 by Marquess of Bute, in Yeomanry Cavalry, Member of the Corporation for 15 years - returned 4 times as top of the poll, Borough Magistrate, Churchwarden, Land Tax Commissioner & special constable during Chartist Riots of 1840. Jane was lame in one leg. 3 sons - George Edward (1837 - 84), Lewis Francis (died young), Clarence(1848 - 1917). 5 da: Isabella (1833 - 1913)unmarried; Jane Margaret (1835 - 1900) married Charles Williams 1 son, Frances Nash (1842 - 1920) Unmarried, Constance Born 1845, married Edmund Hyde, Florence. Born 1846 Died young
6.Elizabeth(1805 - 1891) Born in Guernsey. Died in Australia. Married William Thomas & emigrated to Australia. 1 son, 2 da.
regards
Bill
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Cerron, MarySUe and Nev
Some comments on John Bird's (1773 - 1815) ten sons and daughters! They were:-
John (1761 - 1840). Married i) Hannah Davies 1784 (d. 1786), ii) Sarah Vaughan 1790 (d 1810), iii) Elizabeth Morgan 1812. 2 sons, 2 daughters. Born in Cardiff Castle, which, together with huge estates, was owned by the Bute family. John started work for the Bute estate when he was 16. He became the factor of the estate and a good friend of the 2nd Marquess of Bute (then reckoned to be the richest man in the world) and also a senior alderman, magistrate and a prominent businessman in Cardiff where he wielded considerable influence. His portrait was commissioned by the Marquess and remains in the Bute family. "The Diaries of John Bird 1790 - 1803" edited by Hilary Thomas was published by the South Wales Record Society of 22 Redbrick Crescent, Barry Island, South Glamorgan, Wales, CF6 8TT in 1987 (ISBN 09508676 3 2).
Sarah (1763 - ). Married Philip David and emigrated to the USA. Sole choild was Elizabeth who married Samuel Kerrison of Charleston USA.
Henry (1765 - 1801) Married Jane Lewis 1787. Shoemaker. 3 sons;1 da.
William (1767 - 1849) Married (in Guernsey) Sarah Nash 1793. 3 sons; 2 da. My wife's Great (x3) Grandfather.
Richard (1769 - ) Emigrated to the USA and died there
Edward (1773 - 1848) Married Margaret Bevan (sister of Dr William Bevan of Cardiff). 4 sons (1 died very young); 2 da (1 died 1 day old). His 4th son, William (1805 - 1884) married Sarah Buck. In 1796 Edward established a successful ironmongery and plumbing business in Cowbridge, an attractive market down about 20 miles from Cardiff. It remains in Bird ownership today - concentrating on agricultural mowing equipment.
James (1775 - 1857) Married Sarah Young. 6 sons;2 da. Played major role in the Cowbridge business.
George Pace ( - 1779) probably died young
Joseph - Nothing known - died very young probably
Sarah - Nothing known - also died very young probably
regards
Bill
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Cerron, MarySue and Nev; copied from a Bird family historian as are my previous posts;
the earliest family member we have unearthed is John Bird(Byrd), an Heraldic Painter, who in 1590 painted some well known murals in St Donat's Church, Glamorganshire, S Wales. They were stolen a few years ago but have been recovered and the originals are now in the National Museum of Wales, Cardiff. The family understanding is that he was a member of the Bird family who were well known silk manufacturers in Coventry. The coat of arms used by "your" Birds is the same as that granted to the Coventry Birds - briefly it consists of 4 martlets, a greyhound's head as crest and motto of "Recte Certe". During the 17th and 18th centuries members of the Bird family not only established themselves in trade in South Wales but also linked their fortunes as craftsmen and officials to the lords of Cardiff Castle. They included William Bird who died in 1731 and John Bird, his son who had died by 1748. John married a Margaret Mashman and they had 4 children: John (your great (x 5) grandfather) who was born in 1733 and died in 1815. In 1760 he married Sarah Pace of Cardiff. Born in Cardiff Castle he was an agent of the estate, water bailiff and clerk to market as well as a cordwainer and shopkeeper. He had a brother,William (1737- 1780) and 2 sisters, Elizabeth and Margaret.
regards Bill
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firstly, thank you Bill1 for the heads-up
and many thanks to you and Ceronn also for all this information
I shall be busy for sometime I think
Nev
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Bravo Bill !
A correction to post 42. Eliza born 1805 died May 1893 at Romsey, Vic. Australia, and there were 4 sons and 3 daughters, of whom a boy and a girl died in infancy. Five children came to Australia. William b.1839 had 3 daughters and 1 son. Alfred Nash b. 1845 had 3 sons and 2 daughters, of whom 1 son died in infancy. His wife was his first cousin Alice Bird b.1852. Arthur Augustus b. 1850 died unmarried in 1873. Matilda died before 1870, Sophia Eliza married Charles Beard in 1870 and had 12 children.
The Australian Dictionary of Biography [on line] has an entry for a grandson of William: Noel William Simpson b. Sydney Australia in 1907.
Thanks, Ceronn.
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Nev, Cerron Mary Sue
re message #22 James Bird. James Bird surgeon, b 1802(husband of Susan, is listed in the 1861 census living at 6 upper Seymor st. Paddington,same listing has Sarah d in law, born Scotland ;Alfred James age 3 grandson and Agnes m age 2 months.If Alfred died in 1857 Sarah is then most likely James wife.
The 1871 census lists Sarah B as Head, wid,age 34 from Edmbro(Edinburgh) Scotland with Alfred age 13 and Agnes maud age 11.
1881 c has a Alfred James Bird listed as a cheesemonger in middlesex, a separate listing has Anes Maud and Sarah living in London Kensington, Kensington town dist 6a.There is a marriage in last quarter of 1857 James Bird to Sarah Robertson, Marylebone, London, Middlesex. James died between 1860 and 1871, I have not checked death register.
Bill
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T Nev and Cerron
re James Bird (#22 and 24)James ,born Feb 10 1802 died 4 June 1874 is the son of Edward Bird 1773-1848 and Margaret Bevan 1768-1835. He shows up on the 1861 English census for St John paddington dist. 6, as a 59 year old surgeonwith his wife Susan (Susanna Matilda Bird 1st cousin)Sarah d in law born in Scotland, Alfred- grandson age 3 and Agnes g da age 2 mo. They were living at 6 Upper Seymor St west.
James is listed in the 1871 census at age 69 as a widow living at 80 Seymor st St. John Paddington dist. 6
best regards
Bill
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Bill1
Thank you Bill. We are really expanding on the "brief pedigree" of the bird family. They seem to have lived a good life span! I have a note about a Fortescue Jones described as 'Shoemaker, water bailiff and clerk to the markets in Cardiff, grandson of John Bird, painter and guilder.'
The IGI has a marriage listed in 1809 for Sarah Bird and William Jones, St. Johns Cardiff.Maybe the youngest child of John Bird 1733-1815 did not die young as suggested in an earlier post.I have had trouble tracking down where I found this note.
The Bird descendants of William Knowles Bird are fairly easy to track via history books and the net as they were in the diplomatic service in a very interesting historical period.eg. Sir Hugh Stonehewer Bird [Francis Hugh William] KCMG OBE. His obituary in the Times 1973.
best regards
Ceronn.
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Hello Cerron
I have information on Hugh Stonhewer Birdand his family but little on Sarah b 1827 or Margaret (married to Robert Hendeweil). What I have on Elizabeth consists of her husbands name and the names of 9 children.
Anything you can add would be appreciated. Just as an aside where do you reside.
regards
Bill1
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Hello Bill,
I live in tropical North Queensland Australia. I thought you were Canadian, but now not sure.
Sarah b. 1827 died young, unmarried. Could not find Margaret but have not really tried. Elizabeth's husband John Grierson b. 16.1 1816 Bridgenorth U.K. had a carpet warehouse in Duke St. Cardiff.[Slaters Directory 1858-9]In 1864 they migrated to NZ.and settled near Christchurch. John, described as a lawyer, and active in Commercial circles died 26.1.1882. The Griersons are very big on family history and can be found at Ancestry.com. Gertrude Hannah Grierson Chr. 12.9.1855 St. Johns, was one of the first women to attend Christchurch University. She died in 1956 aged 101. A son, Owen Heathcote Grierson Merton, became a well known expatriate NZ painter, lived in Paris , died 18.1.1931 buried in London.A grandson Thomas Merton b. 1915 Paris died 1968 USA, a famous philosopher and Trappist Monk. Some of the Griersons established a large legal firm in NZ. Some later moved to Australia.
best regards
Ceronn
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Hello Cerron
I am indeed a Canadian living in Toronto, Ontario. Thanks for the information on the Griersons I will check Ancestry.com to see what I can find.
best regards
Bill
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Hello Cerron
I checked at the library today. The spelling for the marriage between Margaret Stonehewer Bird and Robert Bernhard Henderwerk.
Also Kate Lewis Bird is married to Lovell Drage, not Charles Drage.
regards
Bill
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Hello Bill and Nev,
The name was Hendewerk [no r ] Usually written Handwerker or similar, c.f.English "Handworker".The 1881 census shows Robert 56 a merchant, born Danzig [ now Gdansk]and Margaret 51 [understated] living in Ealing, Middlesex, naturalised British citizens, and daughter Maud, 21. This daughter was born Emily Maud Mary Grierson in Cardiff 18.71859 and was adopted by her Aunt known as 'Madge' according to information from the New Zealand family. Maud married a Benjamin Pierce and died 1933.It seems that Margaret Stonehewer Bird and her husband had no children of their own.
sincerely
Ceronn.
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Hello Cerron, Nev and Mary Sue
Two additional children for William (Iron) Bird b 1805, and Sarah Buck;
Florence b 1837 d 1843
Kate Lewis b 1840 d 1841
Both are buried with William and Sarah in Highgate cemetary (along with catherine b 1839 d 1862)
regards Bill
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For Ceronn and Nev Fouiller: I am new to this chat business – I fell into it by accident this morning, and when I saw your message of 26 July 2008 about George Gwynne Bird I was worried that you were off on a wrong track. After some messing about I got back to the subject and found that you and the others have steamed ahead with Birds relevant to your families. I just wanted to let you know that I am a relative of George Gwynne Bird (all three of them!) and that they are a Herefordshire family. Their crest does indeed have martlets on it, but my grandfather's motto was 'Volare sperno'. My grandfather was the one who updated the Bird entry in Burke's Landed Gentry some time in the 1930s I think, as he and his forebears had kept careful records about the family since 1570. However, George Gwynne Bird MD, son of George Gwynne Bird and Elizabeth Priest, was my grandfather's first cousin twice removed and he may not have known all that much about him. Could you please tell me where you got the information – all new to me – about GGB emigrating to upper Canada in 1833 and trying farming, and that later he was physician to Swansea Infirmary, published a booklet about cholera 1849, and believed in the 'miasma' theory of disease. I would love to add these details to my research but I need to know the source.
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Follow the link re miasma theory and GGB
www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/Cholera.html
regards
Bill
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Hello all,
I have only just now read the last two posts. I have not been asleep, but discovered another of my cousins, and she has alerted me to the fact that Matilda Thomas born in Nantgarw Wales did not die by 1870 as I stated in my reply no. 46. Matilda married William St.Leger Dowden in 1875. They lived at Rochford Victoria, and had three children Albert Arthur b. 1876, Matilda Maria Lucy b. 1878, and Sophia Alice Elizabeth Matilda Dowden b. 1879. Matilda [Thomas] Dowden, also known as Sarah Matilda died in 1882 at Lancefield, leaving the three young children motherless.William Dowden died in 1915. Now we are searching for the Dowden descendants.There are two portraits of Matilda, one taken at Ballarat, the other by a Melbourne photographer.
regards Ceronn
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William and Sarah Bird were buried in the old Adamsdown cemetery. Roath Churchyard has memorial inscriptions to John Bird 1761 to 1840 and his nephew John Bird 1816 to 1874, mayor of Cardiff 1862/3, son of James Bird and Sarah Young, also his wife Jemima who died in 1858 and his mother-in law Mary Ann Strutt who died in 1865. There is an obelisk for the first mentioned.
Regarding ships, John Bird the alderman, channel pilot etc. had a share in a schooner named 'Diana'. His grandson John Williams Bird was a mariner who died at sea off Spain in 1848. He had been educated in Guernsey acc. to the diary, so the family had a continuing association with the C.I.
Elizabeth Thomas must have had good advice re. ships, because young children often failed to survive the journey to Australia.After 1852 the ships started to improve, but I have always thought she was brave. She was actually 50 years old, although the manifest of the "Africa" states her age as 45, and the youngest child was 5.
Her cousin Elizabeth Grierson, daughter of William Knowles Bird who was mayor of Cardiff in 1850, migrated with husband and a large family to NewZealand in 1860.It is possible William Knowles Bird inherited a ship or ships from his wife's family, the Stonehewers of Carmarthen.His son Hugh Bird traded in just about everything acc. to the trade directories, and was deputy mayor under his cousin John, 1862/3.William Knowles Bird died in 1881, he had been a printer and bookseller in earlier life.
Thanks for the information from Guernsey. It made my day!
Sincerely Ceronn.
ceronn, I think we must be cousins of about the 6th degree. My gx4 grandfather was Mary Ann Strutts Brother and his daughter my gx3 grandmother married her eldest son (yes they were cousins). I particularly want top follow this line. Also Matilda Strutt was one of Mary Ann Strutts daughters/ Jemimia Birds sister. John Bird eventually married his sister in law but not Matilda but that is why there is a Matilda bird
Love to catch up
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Hi
Did John Williams Bird have a sister Mary or Mary Ann born approx 1815 in Guernsey.She is my gggreat grandmother.She appears on later English censuses as Mary Cobb living in Newark.Does anyone have any information about her and family on Guernsey and why she left for Newark.If 1815 is correct as her birth year she would have been pregnant with my great great grandfather William Watkin Bird when she was about 17 as he was christened in Newark in January 1833 his father is named as a George Rogers.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Anthony Bird
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:( Sorry, fezworth, we have no John Williams Bird, and the only Mary Anne Bird was born 1805 and married firstly Charles William Tasker Bird and then Daniel Lawrence -- no issue from either marriage. In the 1930s our Birds had connections in Jersey, not Guernsey.
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Hi Fezworth
John Williams Bird was a grandson of John Bird the diarist and was lost at sea in 1848. He had a sister Hannah born in 1812, most likely in Cardiff. No other sister is mentioned.John Goodwin Bird's first marriage was in Guernsey to Ellen Groves but since he was born in 1798 he was most likely too young to be the father of Mary Ann. He did have a son from this marriage, also lost at sea.
there are many other Birds about whom I have no information including a Thomas Bird an attorney in 1796 and an Isaak Bird, also another John Bird, a painter born in Cardiff and died in Whitby.That is to say I don't know where they fit into the family.
Sincerely Ceronn.
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Hi Kermie 62,
That is interesting. What was the surname of Mary Ann Strutt's brother?The short pedigree from the diary mentions the Chivers family as a continuation of that line.
Regards Ceronn.
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Hi Cerron,
Thanks to your posts I have learnt a lot more of my gggrandmothers family history
My grandmother was Louise Beard ,Sophia Thomas's daughter.
June
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Hello June,
Thanks for getting in touch.Some years ago I received a list of Sophia's descendants from Gwlad of Geelong.I counted about 250 and I think I have located you on it. I have also read about your family in a local history of Romsey, Vic.Good to hear from you!
sincerely Ceronn.
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Hi Ceronn.
Sorry for the delay in replying,
I have some information regarding the Strutt family including the census data. Mary Ann Strutts brother was John Valentine Rolfe which we are prety sure of. Her eldest son married her cousin John's widowed daughter and came to Australia.
I am interested in making contact with anyone who has is researching this family, to exchange information or to help if I can
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Hi - this is a posting for Fezworth. I believe we share a Mary Ann Bird born 1815 in Guernsey. She is my gggg-grandmother. She married George Cobb (my gggg-gfather) in 1837. In the 1841 census they are living in Cross Guns Yard Newark with William Watkins Bird, William Charles Bird, Thomas and Charles Cobb. A description of Cross Guns Yard can be found ... http://www.newarkadvertiser.co.uk/featurecontent/history/tim-warner/warner76.asp . It makes for interesting reading!
I have not been able to trace further back than Mary, although having read some of the threads on rootschat now have some more leads to follow.
Any help or hints you could pass on would be much appreciated, I didn't realise how many Birds there are (my other main surname interest Smith!!)
Thanks
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Hello Mary Sue
Of George Augustus Birds children who are you descended from. I have information on a number of his descendents and am quite willing to share although it is sparse when it comes to the Australian and NZ members.
Look forward to hearing from you
Bill
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Hello,
This post is for kermie62
Who is interested in Matilda Strutt born 2nd October 1825 Isleworth, daughter of Joseph Strutt & Mary Ann Rolfe
Matilda Strutt = Richard Stone who was born 16th June 1824 Malvern, Worcestershire. They were married
1854 December Q Brentford, Middlesex 3a 59.
They had the following Children:-
Mary A M abt 1858
Gertrude " 1861
Beatrice Richmael Kerenhappuch abt 1861 = 1884 John Trotter of Morpeth, Northumberland, they had:-
Irene Beatrice M. Trotter 1887
Gertrude Gwendeline Trotter 1890
Doris Beatrice Trotter 1896
Stephen R H Stone abt 1866 = 1893 Anie Margaret Edwqards of Dudley, Worcestershire they had:-
Jessie M. Stone 1897
In 1861 Richard Stone was an Upholsterer's Clerk, from 1871 he was a Stationer living 22 Boundary Road, Hampstead, London.
In 1871 Gertrude born abt 1861 is Living with her Aunt Kezia Bird nee Strutt in Cockherbtown, Cardiff.
I hope this is of assistance, not related to this Strutt family, but researching other Strutts and went down the
wrong line.
Regards
Spendlove
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re John Valentine Strutt Australia.
Have come across a number of Valentine Birds in my searches, Anyone aware if they might be linked to the Bird family from Guernsey/Cardiff/London.
The Valentine name is a common first name in the Australian family I was following
regards
Bill1
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Hi
I am George Augustus Bird´s 2x great grand daughter, i have just discovered this site and the information i have found on it is just marvellous. I am also researching the family tree and would love to hear from anyone who perhaps can help me to find out if John Bird 1733 had any siblings.
Many thanks
Jamoy
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Hello Jamoy
John Bird 1733, son of John Bird and Mary Mashman/Marshman, has siblings
Elizabeth abt 1735 , Margaret abt 1735 and William 1737
regards
Bill1
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Hello Bill1
Thank you for the information it is very helpful.
I understand we might be related.
Regards
Jamoy
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Hello Jamoy
We are 4th cousins with the nearest common relative Edward Bird/Margaret Bevin.
regards
Bill1