RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Antrim => Ireland => Antrim Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: KiwiRose on Monday 14 July 08 20:34 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I know that there are Raloo records in Proni but what years do they cover and what information do they contain?
I am especially interested in the records from 1800 until 1864.
The family would not have been able to afford headstones.
Are the Raloo records available anywhere else? Online would be great.
I would love to be able to browse through them and find the birth, death and marriages of many in my family tree.
Visiting Proni is not an option as I do not live in Ireland.
Regards
KiwiRose
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Hi
I have family from Raloo and have quite a few records (including gravestone book) if you give me the names you are looking for I will check what I have.
Helena
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Hello Helen
Thank you for your reply and offer of help.
I have seen the Gravestone inscriptions books for the Carrickfergus / Larne area. They are a wonderful resource. This is how I know that almost all the family didn't put up headstones. My only hope was to find the church records somewhere instead.
I found the Proni site hard to use and couldn't find any details about the Raloo Pres. Church records that they hold. My hope was that they were on some online site and they had BMD's for the years I needed to search.
As there are many experienced and knowledgeable Rootschatters I thought that they may have the answer to my query regarding the records.
Regards
KiwiRose.
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hi,
i'm not sure but i dont think,for the dates you stated, you will find the records online.
i did a google on raloo and on the "glens of antrim historical society" site there were posts with details from someone with moore connections.
you could also try "presbyterianireland" and see if they can help.
i havent visited proni yet but i'm sure someone will help you regarding the records that they may hold,
good luck.
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Hello TF13,
Thank you for your suggestions.
I have checked out the Glens of Antrim historical site and got in contact with them but at this stage none of the Moores link with mine. I first need to find the parents of a James Moore born around 1804. (James is the one family member who got a headstone.) Unfortunately the name is common in the area.
The presbyterianireland link has not yet brought forth any further information. I did find a link through Rootsweb on the Co Antrim Church Records which had Raloo with nothing written beside it, however directly beneath it it had Larne Pres.1842*/MIC 1P/354. The reference number MIC1P/354 is the one given for Raloo in PRONI. Maybe the Raloo records are in with Larne Pres. What do you think? The 1842 date would not help me find his parents names as I presume he would have been married before that date.
I knew it would not be easy searching in Ireland with a common Antrim name. I have heard though of the luck of the Irish!
Regards
KiwiRose.
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Have you checked LDS catalogue (www.familysearch.org) to see if they've microfilmed the Raloo records?- and if they cover the dates you need. If so, you can order the film from your local LDS library for a small fee to be viewed there.
Not sure about Raloo in particular but in general many Presbyterian congregations didn't keep burial register but some do have a graveyard map. Besides baptismal and marriage registers other church sources are Communicants Rolls, Session Minutes and Pew Lists.
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hello KiwiRose,
i found 4 church baptism records for james moore in co. antrim;
1802
1803
1805
1805
all were on the ulster historical foundation site.
they charge 5 euros to view but you should wait until the last resort
because they mighn't be your man and they mightn't give you more than
the birth.
also found a gravestone for a james moore,
died 1897, raloo, antrim.
is this the one gravestone you found?
if it was then you could apply for the death cert.
as for the records being in with larne, i dont know, but from my own
family searching the family never moved but the records were
registered differently in some cases.
tony
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Hello Aghadowey
Thank you for your idea to try LDS library. They do not have Raloo church records although they do have Ballylinny.
It is the baptismal and /or marriage records I'm mostly interested in due to the possibility that the parents were named.
Hello TF13
It is interesting to see those baptismal records in UHF for a James Moore in the years that I would be interested in. I agree with you that with such a common Antrim name and without a more definite location it could be a waste of money at this stage to check them out. Do you know if the UHF have Raloo Church Records?
The headstone in Raloo graveyard states that James died in 1877 and his wife, Sarah(Sally) in 1898. I understood that the information on a death certificate is basic only and would not give me the names of his parents.
Kind regards
KiwiRose
hf
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Irish death certificates list name, age, date and place of death, cause of death, marital status, occupation, informant. Does not list parents, spouse, children, birthdate or place, place of burial.
Most early (pre-1845) Presbyterian marriage records list ONLY date of wedding, name of bride and groom and names of two witnesses.
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Hello Aghadowey
Thanks for the information regarding Irish death certificates and pre-1845 Presbyterian marriage records.
It seems that if I want to find the parents of James (and any siblings) I really need to establish what years the Raloo baptismal records cover and if the parents are recorded.
The next best hope would be the pre-1845 marriage record witnesses who could be siblings of the bride or groom. His marriage would probably have been around the late 1820's or 1830's. Would these marriage records only be found in church records?
I am not certain as to where exactly (townland) James was born nor his bride, Sarah Johnson. They may have married in the Johnson family's place of worship. Was this the custom at the time? Both were buried in Raloo.
Kind regards
KiwiRose
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Early Presbyterian baptisms (varies depending on the church and the individual minister) often only show father's name or father's name and townland.
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Thank you, Aghadowey, for your latest information.
I'd be very pleased with just a father's name on an early baptismal record. Anything extra would be a bonus.
I have finally figured out how to contact PRONI via email and so have contacted them to ask what Raloo years they hold. I don't know how long it will take them to reply. However I really need to find out if they are available online or somewhere privately as PRONI don't really do searches.
The Irish Family History Foundation mentioned earlier in this thread does not hold Raloo records so the James Moore's baptismal records found would not be my James.
Kind regards
KiwiRose
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hi KiwiRose,
i noticed on the proni website that they are getting ready to
move to a new building and so are closing down departments
(only for short periods though),
so they might take a while to reply.
hope you find what your looking for,
tony
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It'll be quite a while until PRONI moves I think although they are now posting that message on their site.
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hi kiwirose,
i visited proni today for the first time looking for some wills. i had to wait before i could view them so i took a "dander" around and came across a register for what church records proni holds! this is what i wrote down;
raloo presbyterian;
baptisms... 1842-1927
marriages... 1841-1900
marriage notices... 1933-1961
pew register... c1860-
new communicants... 1859-82
i hope i copied the information down correctly :)
tony
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Hello Tony
Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to look up the Raloo information. Your "dander" results have delighted me.
Whilst the records held won't find me the parents of James Moore as they don't go back far enough, it will cover his children and grandchildren born before civil registration.
Kind regards
KiwiRose.
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Re Enquires from Kiwi Rose. The James and Sarah Moore referred to on the Raloo Church Yard are my great great Granddparents.
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Re Enquires from Kiwi Rose. The James and Sarah Moore referred to on the Raloo Church Yard are my great great Granddparents. My family still live in the area and attend the church occasionally. I have been to the churchyard several times. I have also had contacts with the Moores in New Zealand and know that there is a Rose who is part of that family. I am not sure if you are interested in current family connections or only the ancestery. but it would be good to find out - I have just joined the site and hope I am not contravening any confidentiality rules. Thanks.
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hi lindajayne,
welcome to rootschat!
i hope it turns out you and kiwirose are related :)
cant wait for her reply :)
tony
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Hello Lyndajayne,
I am delighted to find another relation. James and Sarah are also my Great, great grandparents so we are some sort of cousin.
I still have family living in the Carrickfergus/Larne area but they are unable to answer my many questions.
There are two branches of the family in NZ and I know of the Rose you refer to.
I will send you a private message (pm) tomorrow when I have more time. This will avoid any confidentiality problems with living people as I suspect that I have met your family.
Kind regards,
KiwiRose.
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Hello
How do the commercial genealogy sites get hold of the records held in Proni and make them available on their sites? I am asking as I have yet to find the Raloo church records on a site. Could the church elders have placed some sort of embargo on anyone other than Proni having their records?
Regards
KiwiRose.
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I'm not sure about organisations but I know several people over the years that have purchased microfilms of church records from PRONI and they first had to get written permission from the particular church before PRONI would let them purchase the microfilms.
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Thank you aghadowey for your reply.
Most of the on line genealogical sites with Irish records are not very specific about exactly which parish/church records they actually hold. The sites where I have been able to search indexes for family names do not seem to have Raloo records or I would have been more successful.
Do you think that if I contacted Proni they would be able to and/or willing to let me know if the Raloo records have been purchased or not by an on line genealogical company? Maybe this information is commercially sensitive.
Regards
KiwiRose.
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Not sure if PRONI would answer your question but it certainly couldn't hurt to ask. You could also ask what Raloo Presbyterian Church records they do hold on microfilm and about purchasing a copy of the film.
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Thank you for your suggestions aghadowey.
I had never thought of inquiring about the possibility of purchasing a copy of the Raloo records. If they are about the price of a good reference book then they would be affordable, especially if they are not available on an on-line genealogical site.
Your advice has been followed and an inquiry has been sent off to PRONI just minutes ago.
Regards
KiwiRose.
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Hello
Proni has responded very quickly to my latest email. For those of you who are interested here are the records held at Proni for Raloo. I quote:
“We hold the following records for Raloo:
RALOO, CO. ANTRIM
C.I. Raloo (Connor diocese) [Earliest registers destroyed in Dublin]
Printed list of seatholders, with names of committee members, and income/expenditure for the year ending January 1872. D/1788/4
N.S.P. Raloo
Baptisms, 1859-; marriages, 1846-; congregation minute book, 1839-. In local custody
P. Raloo Baptisms,
1842-1927; mar-riages, 1841-1900; lists of new communicants, 1859-82; pew register, c.1860;
Sustentation Fund accounts recording names and payments, 1875. MIC/1P/354
R.C. Ballyclare (Down and Connor diocese)
[Raloo parish was formerly in the Roman Catholic parish of Larne and Carrickfergus - see also under LARNE,and then became part of the Roman Catholic parish of Ballyclare]
Baptisms, 1869-81; marriages, 1870-82. MIC/1D/63
Church records are bound by strict rule regarding copying.”
Proni were not aware of anyone purchasing the Raloo records. They also attached an information sheet for me titled,
“Can I get copies of church records?”
Part of the information from this sheet relating to the Presbyterian Church follows:
“Permission must be sought from the individual congregation (by writing to the Minister) for copies of:
• entire reels of Presbyterian Church records;
• entries/pages from records (other than registers of baptisms, marriages and burials) which are less than fifty years old.
PRONI cannot provide copies of entire reels of post-1845 marriage registers.”
Regards
KiwiRose.
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I just found this wonderful website and immediately joined after reading this string of messages. I have long been curious about records held in this church. My great-great grandparents, John and Martha (Agnew) Girvan were married on 22 Dec 1846 at Raloo Presbyterian Meeting House, Raloo Parish, Antrim County, Ireland. I have a photocopy from an uncle of their marriage record.
Family tradition has confused us all when we look at their marriage record. We were told that Martha (sometimes called "Mary") was too young to marry; therefore, she ran off from Scotland to Ireland (accompanied by two brothers) to elope. However, the church records state that she was residing in Gleno at the time of her marriage (and John was residing in Ruloo (probably Raloo?). In addition, the 1860 U.S. Federal Census lists her place of birth as Ireland. Both fathers' names on the marriage record are "John." With so many John Girvans and John Agnews living in both Ireland and Scotland, it's all very confusing!!! Our family tree dead-ends with these two fathers' names.
Do any of you have any advice on how to learn more about John and Martha??? Unfortunately, the couple moved to the United States and eventually died in Florida between 1860 and 1870; Florida kept no death records during that time period. AUGH!!!
Again, I'm happy to have found this group whose members have actually heard of Raloo Presbyterian!
Judy in Massachusetts, USA
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Hi,
I've just started looking at the Moore side of my family and would love to compare notes with some people on this thread. I've just joined so I can't pm you yet. I think I have tracked down my GG Gfather's headstone to Raloo. He was Samuel Moore, shoemaker in Carrickfergus as shown on 1901 Census.
Inscription: In loving memory of Mary the beloved wife of Samuel Moore, died August 16th 1896, aged 44 years, also Maggie daughter of the above died March 20th 1891, aged 3 months, the above Samuel Moore, died February 12th 1920, aged 68 years, peace perfect peace
In 1911 he was living in Larne with his Brother in Law James Bell in the 1911 Census. James Bell erected a headstone in Raloo to his children and parents in law James and Jane Moore, although she may have been Annie Jane?
Inscription: Erected by James Bell, Larne, in memory of his daughter Jane who died 7th March 1888, aged 10 months, and his son Thomas who died 4th August 1889, aged 2 months, also his mother in law Jane Moore, who died November 1885, aged 54 years, also her husband James Moore who died February 1907, aged 70 years.
Hoping I can get somewhere with this.
I'm patiently waiting until PRONI opens again properly at the end of this month I've been told.
Best regards,
Pauline
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Hi
Yes PRONI will be open on the 30th March 2011.
Microfilm records including Church Records are currently available offsite if anyone needs lookups.
John
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You might find some information at www.origins.net. There are many records there for 'James Moore' - this site has a minimal cost and has been invaluable in my research. Also, Proni now has the Valuation Revision Books online showing all the land records - this one is free. Also the Ulster Historical Society has all the gravestone inscriptions online at www.ancestryireland.com. If you become a member, you can see this information for free. I have found this site very useful as you can contact them with questions as well. They also have other information online.
Hope this helps,
Pat
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kelw45
Thank you for your suggestions as to on-line sites that I would find helpful. I will certainly check the sites out.
It is some time since I have worked on the Moore tree. I have managed to find James' will and from the details included was able to follow up on of a couple of James' daughters' branches. Unfortunately the will made no mention of his own siblings.
Kind regards,
KiwiRose.
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I first need to find the parents of a James Moore born around 1804. (James is the one family member who got a headstone.) Unfortunately the name is common in the area.
RALOO: 1769 -1771
Tithe Applotments
Moore, Joseph & partners
Moore, Alexander
Moore, Andrew
Moore, John
Moore, Nathaniel
Moore, William
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Thank you mwylie for your interest in my thread and for the Moore names in the RALOO: 1769 -1771 Tithe Applotments.
There are some Christian names in the Tithe Applotments list which are probably not likely as the name of the father/grandfather of James Moore born c1804. William and Alexander are the most probable and would be worth further research. The names Joseph, Andrew and Nathaniel are not repeated at all in families of the known sons/grandsons of James’ (b1804) and his known siblings who were born in the early 1800’s to 1850’s. There is the occasional John but only as a later born son.
Regards
KiwiRose
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My great-great grandparents, John and Martha (Agnew) Girvan were married on 22 Dec 1846 at Raloo Presbyterian Meeting House, Raloo Parish, Antrim County, Ireland.
This would appear to be a record from the Non-Subscribing Presbyterian [aka Unitarian] Church.
There were at least 2 Raloo men named John Girvan/Girvin in the 1820s - one resided at Altilevelly and the other at Ballyryland. Gleno is a village located at junction between Ballyryland and Ballywillin.
Index to Tithe Applotment Books
County : Antrim Year : 1830
Parish : Raloo Townland
Agnew, Edwd. J., Esq. Bally Riland
Agnew, James Ballyricard More
Agnew, John Ballyricard More
Agnew, James Ballygowan
Agnew, Patrick Ballygowan
Agnew, Robert Ballygowan
Agnew, Wm. Ballygowan
Girvin, David Antilevelly
Girvin, John Bally Riland
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Index to Tithe Applotment Books
County : Antrim Year : 1830
Parish : Raloo Townland
Moor, Wm. Antilevelly
Moor, John Ballyricard Beg
Moor, John Ballygowan
Moor, Thos. Ballygowan
Moor, Wm. Ballygowan
Moor, Nath. Ballygowan
Moor, John Ballyvallagh
Moor, David Tereagh [Toreagh]
Moor, Eliza Jane Tereagh
Moor, John Tereagh
Moor, Mary Tereagh
Moor, Thos. Tereagh
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Thank you mwylie for all the Tithe Applotment records. I really appreciate receiving the information.
It sparked my interest to search in townlands other than Raloo. Eventually I found a free website (see below) where I could broaden the search and was excited to find Moore's mentioned in the townland of Isle of Glass. There was an Alexander Moore and a William Moore both Year 1816 in Isle of Glass. These two are highly likely to be probable family connections. The location and Christian names fit in well with my research.
I am not sure as to what the Year 1816 refers to. Is it the year a land lease was taken up or just that the family was residing in the townland in 1816?
The website I found may be of help to others searching for Tithe Applotment Books.
irishgenealogyhub.com
Regards
KiwiRose.