RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: Maia261 on Sunday 13 July 08 00:18 BST (UK)
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As I seem to spend most, if not all, my weekends tramping through the graveyards that are local to me with my trusty digital camera "Ready Aye Ready" (sorry my youngest 2 are in the Sea Cadets and I love that motto ;D) I thought I would offer my services as photographer for anyone who would like a picture of any local gravestones......if I'd the time I would love to photograph each and everyone one, transcribe them and set up a website with them all.....but as I dont I thought I would try the next best thing.
If you would like a photo please try and find out, as close as possible, the lair location......some of these cemeteries are huge and, unfortunately, not very well marked. For instance, Tomnahurich in Inverness does have wee stones with the class and section on them but they are very worn and difficult to read - a quick call to the Crematorium at Kilvean Road on 01463 717849 should point you in the right direction though.
Lynn
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I have photographed many of the war graves at Tomnahurich (and the VCs). I have worked out much of the layout but still a few I have not found.
I always recommend printing out the details of the war graves in a strange cemetery, you can then use those to identify much of the layout and I have found many graves that way.
I have never understood why cemeteries cannot have a plan on the noticeboard, they will blame vandalism but they usually manage to have other notices displayed. The odd one stands out like Wrexham where they have a plan and booklet on the noticeboard as well as photocopied plans available in the cemetery keeper's office - he will usually take you to the grave if he is not busy. Carlisle sent me a plan back by EMail within half an hour.
By the way if you are around Inverness, do you have any contacts at Dochfour? There is a war grave in the burial ground there, I did EMail the office at the house but did not get a reply.
Martin Briscoe
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PS
There is one interesting memorial at Tomnahurich. It has a long list of members of the Cameron Highlanders who died at the barracks from the mid-19th Century through to around WWII.
I could put a picture here as some of the names could be useful to people - not all are listed by the CWGC because they are too early.
Martin Briscoe
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Cermeteries should definitely have a plan on a noticeboard, vandalism quite often happens at night and Tomnahurich shuts in the evening so they can't really use that excuse as the noticeboard could be situated inside. As you say, they have plenty of notices on the gate that have survived intact. Well done Wrexham, if only others would follow their lead.
I did have a friend who worked at Dochfour House but sadly we lost contact 3 or 4 years ago, I take it the grave is in the private burial ground at the house? I do have contacts at Abriachan who know a lot about the area so I'll ask them when I go to visit on Saturday.
It would be great for you to post the photo of the memorial at Tomnahurich, I can't recall seeing that one on my wanders, but then again my memory is shot to pieces and as soon as you post it I'll say "Ahhh, that one!" There is one right at the very top of the hill but I can't remember any names being on it - I love it up at the top, so quiet and peaceful, very easy to forget you're in the middle of a "city".
Lynn
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Cermeteries should definitely have a plan on a noticeboard, vandalism quite often happens at night and Tomnahurich shuts in the evening so they can't really use that excuse as the noticeboard could be situated inside. As you say, they have plenty of notices on the gate that have survived intact. Well done Wrexham, if only others would follow their lead.
I did have a friend who worked at Dochfour House but sadly we lost contact 3 or 4 years ago, I take it the grave is in the private burial ground at the house? I do have contacts at Abriachan who know a lot about the area so I'll ask them when I go to visit on Saturday.
It would be great for you to post the photo of the memorial at Tomnahurich, I can't recall seeing that one on my wanders, but then again my memory is shot to pieces and as soon as you post it I'll say "Ahhh, that one!" There is one right at the very top of the hill but I can't remember any names being on it - I love it up at the top, so quiet and peaceful, very easy to forget you're in the middle of a "city".
Lynn
If you can find a contact at Dochfour and either pass on or take a picture yourself then it would be helpful.
I still have a couple of dozen in Tomnahurich that I have not found, I'll have another try one of these days.
The Cameron Highlands memorial is on the top of hill in Tomnahurich, I will dig out the picture later and post here.
Been up that way today so did the last war graves at Glenconvinth, Croy, Daviot and Drumtemple. I must contact the CWGC because one at Croy is broken though it is not an official CWGC headstone so they might not be interested.
Martin Briscoe
Fort William
(still cooling down!)
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This is the Cameron Highlanders memorial in Tomnahurich. It appears to mark the burial place of a number who died at the barracks from 1886 to 1946
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I'm hoping your offer still stands? One of my wife's gg-grandfathers and some other kin are buried in Tomnahurich. Per an email from Fiona Morrison, they are in Section D, Lairs 367 & 368; surnames HARCOMBE, KROUSE or KRAUSE, THRIFT. The family ran the Waverley Hotel back in the 1860s.
Kenneth Thompson
Moline Acres (north StLouis County) Missouri USA
(near the confluence of the Missouri & Mississippi rivers)
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Hi Kenneth,
Yes my offer still stands. It will probably be the weekend before I can manage to get there in daytime though due to working full-time, although if I can I may try as early as Thursday.
Lynn :)
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Kenneth,
Just to let you know, we woke up to snow this morning, quite a bit of it too so I'm not sure when I'll manage to get round to take the pics at the moment. It is meant to turn to rain this afternoon so doesn't look like it will hang about.
Lynn :)
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Hi Lynn,
Just wondering if you are near Tomnacross Churchyard. If so, I would like to take you up on offer to photo a couple of graves. Not in a rush though, just like last week - JK ;D - Thanks Kate
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Hi Kate,
Aye of course no worries at all. Will probably be a couple of weeks before I manage to get out there though due to working full-time. Let me know the details and I'll see what I can do.
Lynn :)
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Hi there - Finally got the information together for Tomnacross Graveyard. We are looking for an Alexander Fraser - died 10 December 1912, born about 1840. His wife Christina (Christy) Cameron Fraser - died 23 November 1910, born about 1844. Also, if any children in the same area - John Fraser, Duncan Fraser, Helen, Christina, or Elizabeth Mary Fraser. Thanks for your help. Kate
Once you have the photo or photos, let me know with a post and I will send you a PM with my email address. Thanks.
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Hi Kate,
Finally managed to get out to Tomnacross today, went round the graveyard twice, plenty of Fraser's, a few Cameron's but we never managed to find your ones. :(
Kenneth, I'm hoping to get round to Tomnahurich next weekend weather permitting.
Martin, I still haven't managed to find a way in to Dochfour, we took a run in there some time ago but my partner chickened out before we managed to get to the graveyard. I have tried phoning them a couple of times but they never seem to answer the phone.
Lynn
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I have a pic of the Harcombe/Thrift stone if it helps.
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Hi Lynn,
Are you still available for Tomnahurich cemetery lookups ?
I have the necessary information from Fiona Morrison.
How do we arrange an exchange of email addresses ?
Thanks
Iain
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Iain,
I have pm'd you.
Will try to get round to Tomnahurich this week sometime, life has been pretty hectic lately so sorry for not managing before now.
Lynn
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Hi Kenneth,
Did you take Ghost Whisperer up on her offer of the photo? I had a wander round today but was unable to find the grave. They don't have a very good ordering system so it's not even easy to find a section without good directions.
Iain had a reply from Fiona which gave explicit directions and I found the lair without any difficulty so this helps a lot.
Lynn
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Sorry my photo's are not the best.
Erected by his affectionate wife Harriet Redfern to the memory of James Hardcombe who died 4th July 1872 aged 54 years. The above Harriet Redfern who died 22nd Sep 1897 aged 60 years. And her son George Dodd Thrift who died in Edinburgh 13th Sep 1915 aged 58 years. Also Edgar their son died 7th Jan 1949 aged 79 and of Margaret S Green his wife died 21st Sep 1949 aged 75 years.
http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp8/Ghostwhisperer_01/1120.jpg
http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp8/Ghostwhisperer_01/1120a.jpg
http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp8/Ghostwhisperer_01/1120b.jpg
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Thank you, ghostwhisperer!!!! And you too, Lynn!! This had slipped my mind. Will be sending these photos along to the Harcombe relatives here in the States, and posting them to the Find_a_Grave database. At least over here, gravestones aren't really "monumental" any more; just a flat slab with name, DoB & DoD.
Again, thank you very much!
Kenneth Thompson
Moline Acres (north StLouis County) MO USA
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No problem. Hope they help.
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Hi Lynn!
Many thanks for your prompt reply. You really added to an already Happy Thanksgiving for me.
"Grandpa 'Gow?' of Inverness"
He was always referred to by my mother as "Gow", but late in here life I asked her if it might be her maternal grandmother's side which was "Scott". It confused her a bit, and it did lend some pause to her certainty. More likely it is Gow and I will elucidate at the end of this email.
Edited from my notes:
He is probably buried in Tomnahurich Cemetery in Inverness.
On June 3, 1999 I spoke with my mother about "Grandpa of Inverness." She & my father drove through Inverness on their honeymoon in the fall of 1936. They visited the cemetery and "quite easily" found what they believed was Grandpa Gow's grave. My mother said the graveyard was the "City of Inverness graveyard." It was the "old graveyard belonging to the city."
My mother's mother, nee Gow, was "very pleased" that she and my father had discovered the stone.
My mother felt that the cemetery was on the "left" as they approached the city, very close to the side of the road. The "gravesite is not far inside" (1936). "It was easy to find."
"Probably a modest stone. Maybe overgrown."
I think from my mother's descriptions that Tomnahurich is almost certainly the site of Grandpa Gow's burial. All of her descriptions fit the situation of Tomnahurich.
On September 16, 2003 I spoke to my mother again about this and mentioned the name "Tomnahurich." The name definitely rang a distinct bell in her mind. She had a clear recollection of how her aunt's Gow used to mention the name Tomnahurich.
Odds are 90% that Grandpa Gow is buried in Tomnahurich if his stone can still be found or read.
According to the government registrar's office in Inverness the name "Gow" is quite a rare name and is most familiar in Thurso, the northernmost part of mainland Scotland.
As of 5/13/04 the closest possibility for this James Gow is according to an OPR search for the birth of a son William for all Scottish parishes between 1818-1822. The only William born to a James for these dates was born in Latheron on the north coast above Inverness. There are other James' and William's of earlier dates also found around Latheron.
"James" Gow, husband of Margaret Kinnear was defintely the father of our William Gow (monument seen in Kettins) and this is evidenced on William's death certificate dd 1912.
So, if we are right Grandpa "Gow" of Inverness is a "James" though the referenced Grandpa could even be a g grandpa or gg grandpa bearing a different name. But I suspect it is just Grandpa and with the name "James". He probabaly would have been born circa 1790 or earlier. Died??
Now to throw a curve at you - If this Grandpa of Inverness is actually from my mother's mother's maternal side then he is a "Scott". His name would be "John Scott" and born circa 1819 or before as his wife Janet Spalding was born in 1819.
It is key to understand that my mother said the cemetery was just by the side of the road as you approach the city and she remembered that the stone was easy to find and not far inside. However, that was in 1936 and the road and new burials may have changed that perspective. You would need to begin looking from a 1936 perspective and from there "not far inside".
Are there any records for Tomnahurich archived anywhere? If so, it would seem an easy matter through the records to search for the whereabouts of Gow's & Scotts buried there. I am sure the Gow's would be few. I'm sure the Scott's would be many, but perhaps not so many "not far inside and close to the road". If there is cost involved in such a search I am happy to send the necessary funds.
That's a lot of nuanced information but I want you to have as full an arsenal as possible if you really do go by and take a look. If the stone is not covered up my guess is you might find it "quite easily", just as my mother did,.
Thanks so much for your kind and generous offer of help on this Lyn. I have no timeline expectations. Our extended family has been waiting decades to unravel the mystery of Grandpa of Inverness.
Cheers & All the Best to You & Yours!
David
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OK David,
I'll answer you piece by piece. Inverness has one or two graveyards, a couple of which could have been beside a main road into Inverness in 1936 (and still are actually).
Tomnahurich being one of them, Chapel Yard being another, both on the left as you approach the city, which, by the way, wasn't a city until 2000. As for being referenced as the "old graveyard belonging to the city", although Tomnahurich has a lot of old stones, the ones beside the main road through Tomnahurich are very imposing stones and tend to be from "important" families in Inverness. (Could well be your family though as we haven't checked yet).
Both cemeteries contain old stones and could both be referenced as the "old graveyard belonging to the city", although I feel this would more likely be the Chapel Yard than Tomnahurich. I could well be wrong though.
Nonetheless I will begin searching Tomnahurich as soon as I can find the time, in the next couple of weeks most probably, I will write down all the names you have given me and search for both couples. Chapel Yard will have to wait a wee while though as it is only open Monday to Friday, office hours, as I work full time this will have to wait until I have some time off, which isn't until January I'm afraid. :o
The Cemetery Office at Kilvean may be able to help you, contact details below. Not sure if they can do much without a lair number or such like but always worth a try as they are very helpful. Let me know if they can provide extra detail as every little helps.
Cemeteries and Crematorium Section
Transport, Environmental and Community Services
Administration Office
Kilvean Road
Inverness
IV3 8JN
Tel: 01463-717849
Fax: 01463-717850
E-mail:fiona.morrison@highland.gov.uk
As an aside, we do have some "famous" Gow's here in Inverness, in the shape of Harry Gow, Baker. Harry started in Burnett's Bakery in the 1950's, started his own bakery in Smithton, Inverness in the late 70's and has several very successful shops dotted around Inverness, Ross & Cromarty and Sutherland now, with the main bakery still in Smithton. I grew up in Smithton and, boy, were we spoilt when Harry Gow's opened up. (They are actually in what we would class as Culloden but they obviously think Smithton was more upmarket so we''ll let them have that one, only because it's where I grew up mind).
Anyway, let me know how you get on with Kilvean and meanwhile I will start my search. No cost involved, I do it for fun (Oh dear that doesn't sound very good, does it). I have had so much help in my search for my ancestors that I really enjoy returning the favour for some-one else that needs help.
Happy Thanksgiving and also all the best to you and yours
Lynn :D
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The distinctive feature about Tomnahurich which I would have expected to be in the description is that there is a large hill in the middle. Most of the burials are around the hill with the older and more imposing ones around the base of the hill and on the top. I would say that the side nearest to the gates by the A82 main road has the oldest ones on the level part of the cemetery.
There are a couple of aerial views on Scotland's Places (http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk) - search for Tomnahurich. Also some pictures around the cemetery on the HER (http://her.highland.gov.uk/SingleResult.aspx?uid=MHG28426).
Also a few pictures of Chapel Yard on the HER (http://her.highland.gov.uk/SingleResult.aspx?uid=MHG3847). It is more conventional old cemetery with wall around it.
MB
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Hi again Lynn! Also to Martin:
Thanks so much to both of you for the information. Especially to you Lynn for the detailed reading, thoughtfulness, and future exploration.
Hmmm... perhaps it could be Chapel Yard. But my gut still leans towards Tomnahurich. Why? I believe my parents would have approached the city from the south on their honeymoon and have passed Tomnahurich more naturally. I am not sure where they were approaching from but they began the original part of their trip in Coopar Angus. Very possibly they drove up through the scenic west. The area of Chapel Yard does not look like a natural southern approach to the city if you are coming from the south either east or west. The key word is "approach". Once again I referred to the notes of my conversation with my mother. "On the left as they approached the city" and "Very close to the side of the road." "Approach" I do not think meant "as you enter the city." Also, taking a 60 year old memory from an 85 year old woman I do not think a hill would have been all that siginificant. They would have seen lots of hills along the way. What was important to her memory was: "approach" to the city, "left hand side", "very close to the side of the road", "not far inside", "easily found". And of course "cemetary belonging to the city." Which is another key point. I presume Tomnahurich is and is perceived as a more secular burial ground. Am I right? I presume Chapel Yard may be less so secular, although perhaps more so in modern times. I believe my Gow's or Scott's were strong Church of Scotland people. That would lead me to conjecture "Grandpa 'Gow' or 'Scott'" preferring either a more secular burial ground or one more associated with the Church of Scotland. I do not know anything of associated perceptions with respect to these graveyards in times past. But my sense of my mother saying "belonging to the city" is more that her perception was that this was more of a public burial ground than a parochial one. She was very religiously established and that would have been an important feature to her. She also referreed to it as "The City of Inverness graveyard".
Having said all this I may still be off base, but thought it important to express my instinct. Most of my hunches in my searches have been correct. But perhaps not this time. "The old graveyard belonging to the city" could also be Chapel Yard if you think my explanations are naive and not well informed. I agree with Martin's notion of where to look first at Tomnahurich. If the gate area of Tomnahurich along the A82 (Glenurquart Rd/Tomnahurich St) would have been unchanged since 1936 then that area may be the best place for a serious first look. That is, "on the level part of the cemetery." Or perhaps just where the hill begins to rise.
Don't confuse yourself with too many names. All the information is given as background. I think the stone will be James GOW. Any other "GOW" will also almost certainly be it. If it is SCOTT, it MUST be JOHN SCOTT only, and probably no other. I suggest you take copies of both detailed posts with you
I will wait patiently yet with great expectation. Happiness and health to you as you "approach" the Holidays!
David Laughlin
McLean, Virginia - USA
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The hill in Tomnahurich has a level area on the top with burials (older ones).
There are also burials on part of one side of the hill and around the base of the hill. Then there is a level area around the hill which is where most of the burials are. I think it has been extended on one side since the 1930s but I would think it have been of very similar appearance.
It is quite a big place so you will lucky to find a grave without getting guidance from the office - it took me ages to find the last few war graves there and I had to get some notes from the CWGC to find them!
I am not sure when the cemetery opened but I would guess the second half of the 19th Century.
Last time that I asked, the archive did not have a plan or index to the cemetery (the new archive is not far from Tomnahurich). You have to go to the cemetery office, I went there when looking for the grave of a holder of the VC and I think they were able to photocopy a card with a photograph of the headstone.
MB
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Many thanks Martin! That is valuable hands on knowledge. I hope with guidance from both of us that Lynn may have some success. I will keep your comments in case I must wait until I return one day. With the complications of life that could be a long time or never. But I do love Scotland and I hope to see her, my motherland, again one day. All the best, David
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Many thanks Martin! That is valuable hands on knowledge. I hope with guidance from both of us that Lynn may have some success. I will keep your comments in case I must wait until I return one day. With the complications of life that could be a long time or never. But I do love Scotland and I hope to see her, my motherland, again one day. All the best, David
I was up in Inverness today so I went around taking a few photos before heading home. I have posted these on PICASA. The light was not good so nothing fancy, just pointed the camera in various directions and took pictures! If you look at the map on the right hand side it shows where the picture was taken (click "+" to zoom in).
I took a single shot of the churchyard at the Old High Church (I think that is the name), a few around Greyfriars and Chapel Yard before going out to Tomnahurich. As you will see Chapel Yard is also right by the roadside which would have been the A9 from the North in those days. There would have been proper iron railings on top of the wall rather the present scruffy fence.
INVERNESS (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/pyemuseum/2009_11_30InvernessCemeteries?authkey=Gv1sRgCIyVmvrjz5GQyAE#)
MB
:)
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Wow! That's great of you Martin. THANK YOU !!! It does give me some perspective from my vantage of 1,000's of miles across the Atlantic. I have also had some time to reflect on my theories and reminded myself that I should never challenge a woman's (Lynn's) intuition with categorical logic. I ran a MapQuest from Coupar Angus to Inverness. If my parents came directly along that route in 1936 and if the route would have been the same as it is today then indeed the road would have passed directly past Chapel Yard.
I guess there are 3 factors to consider at this stage. 1) Has the main route of approaching and entering the city from the southeast changed since 1936? 2) In 1936 was the west side of the city, i.e the part of the city on the west side of the River Ness considered the city center of Inverness, or would Chapel Yard also have been considered within the city, or more on the fringe, or within an eastern district not properly considered as Inverness? This is very convoluted language but the intent is to divine whether Chapel Yard would have been considered an "approach" to the city in 1936. 3) Has the Chapel Yard been used for general burials, i.e. multi-denominational for a long time, and is it considered a burial ground "belonging to the city"?
I hope that Lynn too is keeping up with our dialogue.
Many, many thanks. I feel as though "Great Grandpa of Inverness" is whispering for discovery. He's very close for sure, and he certainly exists within or nearby Inverness.
All the best,
David
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Wow! That's great of you Martin. THANK YOU !!! It does give me some perspective from my vantage of 1,000's of miles across the Atlantic. I have also had some time to reflect on my theories and reminded myself that I should never challenge a woman's (Lynn's) intuition with categorical logic. I ran a MapQuest from Coupar Angus to Inverness. If my parents came directly along that route in 1936 and if the route would have been the same as it is today then indeed the road would have passed directly past Chapel Yard.
I guess there are 3 factors to consider at this stage. 1) Has the main route of approaching and entering the city from the southeast changed since 1936? 2) In 1936 was the west side of the city, i.e the part of the city on the west side of the River Ness considered the city center of Inverness, or would Chapel Yard also have been considered within the city, or more on the fringe, or within an eastern district not properly considered as Inverness? This is very convoluted language but the intent is to divine whether Chapel Yard would have been considered an "approach" to the city in 1936. 3) Has the Chapel Yard been used for general burials, i.e. multi-denominational for a long time, and is it considered a burial ground "belonging to the city"?
I hope that Lynn too is keeping up with our dialogue.
Many, many thanks. I feel as though "Great Grandpa of Inverness" is whispering for discovery. He's very close for sure, and he certainly exists within or nearby Inverness.
All the best,
David
At that time the A9 ran through the middle of Inverness so would go past Chapel Yard though it is just North of the town centre but they could well have gone through the town. Tomnahurich is just down the Fort William road but it is also quite possible they would go down to Loch Ness.
You can see a map from around that time on the NLS website (http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/popular_list.html).
You can also see an aerial view from just after WWII also on the NLS website (http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/air-photos/index.html)
There is a good aerial view of Chapel Yard on the TARA website (http://aerial.rcahms.gov.uk/database/record.php?usi=006-001-007-257-C&searchdb=tara&). You can it just left of the middle of the picture.
MB
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Those are great assets. Thank you. It seems that it all really hinges on which approach my parents took in 1936. That is unknown and it could have been either. So it looks like either cemetery could be the target. But the name "Tomnahurich" was familiar to my mother because her aunts "Gow" in their youth wrote some poems and songs about it (circa 1890's). I have seen these poems somewhere and the poems/songs describe Tomnahurich in magical terms. Growing up in Coupar Angus one wonders why they would have known about Tomnahurich and to have been inspired enough to have written poems and songs accordingly. My thought is that they visited Inverness and the cemetery at some point with their family. In those days I do not believe a visit to the cemetery would have been an idle one. But this is a dim hint which could also be a red herring.
DL
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There are no Gow Stones in Chapel Yard.
The Scott stones I have photographed are as follows
Name DOD DOB Spouse
Scott David * * Femmister Margeret
Scott David * * McKenzie Elizabeth
Scott David 1766 25 *
Scott Hector * 1700 *
Scott Hector 1776 70 *
Scott James Rev 1875 84 *
Scott William 1823 79 Shaw Catherine
Scott stones I dont have include a G Scott, Jean Scott, MacKay Scott, Margaret Scott and another William Scott.
The only Gow I have in Tomnahurich is
Gow John Orr 1892 59 Fraser Elizabeth
and Scotts
Scott Arthur 1917 87 Walker Margaret
Scott Camilla E * * Bonavia
Scott Charles W 1965 1892 *
Scott David 1868 1849 *
Scott F 1948 * *
Scott Hugh G 1970 1885 *
Scott James 1889 * Davidson Elizabeth
Scott James Edward 1954 1882 *
Scott James M * 7 *
Scott John 1896 * *
Scott Margaret 1911 74 Black Robert
Scott Norman 1960 1883 *
Scott Roderick 1884 1880 *
Scott Roderick H G 1906 1842 Salzman Ellen
Scott Walter 1894 1833 *
Scott William J S 1945 1912
but I have only done a fraction of Tomnahurich.
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My, aren't you a real sweetheart Tinker Bell, Ghostwhisperer, and just as beautiful too. Thank you.
It's good to know we can count out Chapel Yard now. Both Gow's & Scott's. That is if you have done a complete survey?
I doubt that John Orr Gow is our man either. It's too recent and Elizabeth Fraser doesn't fit in.
However, Tomnahurich "John Scott" could have some possibility if it turns out our Grandpa is not a GOW. Do you know more on this one?
Of course a "fraction" has a lot left over... needles in haystacks. But we know the needle is there and we may be getting closer and deeper into the haystack. Hope Tomnuhurich IS the right haystack.
Thanks for all the help given or yet to be!
David
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I have photographed everything legible in Chapel Yard and also have the MI Book and there are no Gow stones listed.
The Scott stone in Tomnahurich reads
In memory of John Scott, Farmer, Oldtown of Culduthel who died there 18th Aug 1896. His grand daughter Roberta Gunn Scott and her husband Alexander Munro, Ironmonger and Cycle Agent.
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Thank you SO much! Doesn't look like ours. But you have been so very helpful to guide us away from Chapel Yard so we don't waste time looking where there is nothing to be found. I'm increasingly believing he's at Tomnahurich though. I hope his monument hasn't been covered up over the years since 1936. All the very best to you! David
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EUREKA !!! I have extraordinary news. Never being one to leave loose ends, especially when needles in haystacks are concerned, I decided to play my part in the further research effort towards the discovery of "Grandpa of Inverness". You see it turns out my mother's memory WAS a little faded in her retired life. Although she referred to him as "Great Grandpa 'Gow' of Inverness" I did ask her once if it might instead be her mother's mother's maternal grandfather "Scott". I remember that she became a bit uncertain at the time and I have always believed in the outside chance that he was "Scott" not "Gow". In fact almost all my mother's maternal grandparents and their families are buried in Kettins, near Coupar Angus. However, her mother's maternal grandmother Janet Scott's (M.S. Spalding) MI is missing her husband's name, although her son who died later is buried with her. The fact that Ghostwhisperer's MI for John Scott at Tomnahurich was missing information on his wife led me to wonder... So tonight I had time to do a death certificate search on GROS for this John Scott. I found it very quickly on the first search and low and behold the Ghostwhisperer's Tomnahurich JOHN SCOTT is absolutely the fabled GREAT GRANDAD OF INVERNESS of our family lore. Thanks to everyone on this site for their help, especially to Ghostwhisperer for her direct guidance to his gravestone. This is a great puzzle solved and one of the Holy Grails of my family research. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I will receive no better Christmas present this holiday season.
Ghostwhisperer, I would be much obliged again if you could post the photo of the gravestone (if you have it) in a form I can download, and also provide any and all other information you might have including as much detail as possible about the location. This is an incredible find for me and now I really do believe in fairies. I only just now joined Roots Chat. Through the site with the magical help of friends like you I have been so fortunate to have solved an age-old mystery so quickly. Once again...
A Thousand Thank You's,
David Laughlin
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(http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp8/Ghostwhisperer_01/742.jpg)
The stone is in Section A, right up on the top of the hill. Afraid its not in great condition.
Glad to be of help. :)
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You're very fast Ghostwhisperer! THANK YOU! The saga is sealed. I hope you are not GMT? If so, you better get to bed! Merry Christmas !
DL
PS Lynn, thanks again for your offer to find and take the photo. Now that you know where it is, if you are there sometime I would love to get another update photo to Ghostwhisper's. Just if it's convenient, and it happens easily - section A on top of the hill. Must be a nice place to visit.
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Here's another follow-up to the John Scott Happy Ending. Since I am neither experienced nor currently Scottish I am having difficulty deciphering the M.S. of John Scott's mother Marjory. It looks like "Mcurzies" but I do not think that is correct. Is there a name Mcurzies? I am sure the experienced Scots out there will have another (correct) take on it. Thanks for your help. I am posting it here.
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Also wondering what the M.I.'s of James Scott at Tomnahurich might say in detail, but doubtful any could be our James. DL
PS It snowed today here. It's beautiful.
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66. In memory of David Scott, son of James Scott Engine Driver who died 8th Sep 1868 aged 19 years and of the said James Scott who died 28th Jan 1889 and of his wife Elizabeth Davidson died 27th Nov 1907 aged 78 years. Also her nephew Alexander Dallas Davidson died 2nd July 1918 aged 54 years.
176. In loving memory of Roderick Hugh Gallie Scott born 8th July 1842 died 21st Aug 1906. Also Ellen Salzman wife of the above Roderick Hugh Gallie Scott born 4th Nov 1848 died 19th July 1928. And of their son James Edward Scott of the Indian Civil Service born 13th Jan 1882 died 23rd Jan 1954, and of their third son Norman Scott born 11th Dec 1883 died 28th Nov 1960, and of their fifth and youngest son Charles Winter Scott, Forester in Burma, India and South America born 7th Jan 1892 died 13th Oct 1965 and of their fourth son Hugh Gallie Scott born 2nd Nov 1885 died 24th Jan 1970.
696. In loving memory of Arthur Scott died 14th Jan 1917 aged 87 years and his wife Margaret Walker died 4th April 1912 aged 75 years. Their grandchildren Arthur Scott Lithgow aged 11 months, James Middleton Scott aged 7 ½ years.
The numbering is just my own so I can find the photos.
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It was a long shot. Nothing there works. I guess I'm getting greedy. Willing to take a stab on Marjory's M.S. above? Thanks again. DL
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Menzies maybe?
There is a James Scott married a May Menzies 8th Nov 1818 in Kinclaven, Perthshire.
On the 1881 census your James Scott states he was born in Kinclaven, Perthshire in 1824.
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Ghostwhisperer:
You hit the jackpot again regarding James Scott and Marjory (May) MENZIES! Great intuition. This BIG WAVE of discovery is really cool. I had been following up but foolishly neglected to check the census. That was a wealth of information and all checks out beautifully with dates, ages, locations and names. Everthing makes sense now. All my mother's maternal side comes from Perthshire, Coupar Angus & Kettins. Almost all the gravestones are in Kettins Churchyard. Kinclaven is just south and between Coupar Angus & Blairgowrie. So John Scott was born and came from the same local area as his wife Janet Spalding who died in 1876. At the time of her death he was a "railroad contractor". After the tragic loss perhaps working on the railroad and selling some family assets in Kettins created an opportunity to provide his children with a new life in Inverness where he farmed the 230 acres in Culduthel. He always remained a widower though he was only 52 years old at the time of his wife's death. He had 7 fulltime male employees and 1 female employee in 1881 and his children were living with him at the cottage at Culduthel Farm. A 1st cousin of my mother's who lived in Vancouver knew and used to speak of her aunt Jessie who is listed on the 1881 census and who died in High River Canada in 1951. One wonders how the families in Perthshire might have felt about things since he never returned for burial to Kettins where most of his children are buried. Gravity seems to have continued to center things in Pethshire. Farming too had fallen out of fashion. I guess he loved Inverness. At least I hope he did. I think he was a very good man as his legend continued somehow to prevail positively in the family memory, though details were completely lacking.
His residence is listed as "Culduthel Cottage". I did a Google search and came up with what I thought really could be his "Culduthel Cottage". I have attached the images. A cottage is usually defined as 1 story. Additionally the 1881 and 1891 census respectively attribute 9 and 10 windows (for tax purposes - "daylight robbery"). The front and back images of the cottage show 10 windows currently. The building certainly looks like a solid stone farm house of the period that could accommodate the persons listed in the census. The images are addressed as 134 Culduthel Road and I believe the building is still there, perhaps as a rental.
I wonder how I could confirm the history of occupancy/ownership of this property? John Scott would have been there from sometime after 1876 to his death in 1896. Thereafter perhaps some kin lived there and managed the farm and lands. Do you think this is Culduthel Cottage?
Surf's up! Thanks for being my wave.
David
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HI
I notice that a few people have taken photos from Tomnahurich Cemetery. If by chance anyone has photographed a grave with the following people, I would very much appreciate a copy of the photo.
ALEXANDER MCRAE died October 1878 aged about 64 years and his wife
ISBELLA MCRAE nee Macrae died January 6, 1876 aged about 62 years and their son
KENNETH MCRAE died June 21, 1874 aged 28 years
All died at Charleston Cottage, Kinmylies, Inverness. I understand that the most likely burial ground for this area is Tomnahurch.
Thank you. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Ann Jordan, Australia
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HI there,
Was wondering if your offer still stands, and if you may have come across a Alexander MUNRO, buried in Inverness, he died aged 72 in Dochgarroch, 1893 I really have no idea where he may be, although they tell me Inverness would be the closest burial area to where he passed away
Any Ideas...
Daizi
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I have had a look through what I have and there is no sign of either Alexander Munro or the McRae family. If you get in touch with the Council they should be able to give you the location of the burial plots.
Cemeteries and Crematorium Section
Transport, Environmental and Community Services
Administration Office
Kilvean Road
Inverness
IV3 8JN
Tel: 01463-717849
Fax: 01463-717850
E-mail:fiona.morrison[at]highland.gov.uk (replace [at] with @)