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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Merionethshire => Wales => Merionethshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: castana1985 on Saturday 12 July 08 19:46 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have two ancestors that I'm trying to find more about.
Robert Jones c.1813 born Llanfawr
Martha Jones c1811 born Gwyddelwern
I believe they were married in Gwyddelwern in 1839, then in the 1841 & 1851 census they are living at the Eagles Inn, Corwen.
If anyone is in the area, ccould you look their baptisms up?? I'd like to trace their parents, siblings etc.
Many Thanks
Tracy
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Hi Tracey
I'll check my records for you in a short while, if no one else has offered. I'm a bit busy at the moment but it shouldn't take long.
I have the records up to 1812 :)
It would be nice if your Martha was my Margaret's little sister :)
Best regards
Gadget
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Nothing for Martha in Gwyddelwern.
Two possibles for Robert in Llanfawr:
13 August 1811 s/o Edward and Frances Jones of Ciltalgarth
21 June 1812 s/o David and Ellin of Penmaen.
I think it might be worth seeing if Paul could find any others. I'll PM him :)
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget
How do I determine which is the correct one?
Can I find siblings?
Thanks for your help!
Tracy
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Hi Tracey
At the moment we can't be sure if either of them is your Robert :-\
I think it might be best to wait until Paul checks for any others and go from there. I see that you've not found a marriage for them yet. This might well give you info on their parents or witnesses that might give more clues.
Gadget
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There is a marriage at Gwyddelwern, St. Bueno in 1839 which could be them?? ???
I should really send off for this certificate, to see if it is the right one.
Tracy
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It looks a very strong possible and will give you parents names. I think, if it was me, I would have ordered it already.
When and where was their first child born?
Gadget
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Here's a piccture that I took of St Beuno a few years ago:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_DM01.jpg)
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There is a marriage at Gwyddelwern, St. Bueno in 1839 which could be them?? ???
I should really send off for this certificate, to see if it is the right one.
Tracy
Or you could wait for me to have a look and save yourself a few quid ;D
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Here's a piccture that I took of St Beuno a few years ago:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_DM01.jpg)
Gadget, that's fantastic. What a great picture and such a beautiful church!
If I wanted to check the records there, where would I find them?
Tracy
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There is a marriage at Gwyddelwern, St. Bueno in 1839 which could be them?? ???
I should really send off for this certificate, to see if it is the right one.
Tracy
Or you could wait for me to have a look and save yourself a few quid ;D
That would be great!! Thanks Paul.
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There is a marriage at Gwyddelwern, St. Bueno in 1839 which could be them?? ???
I should really send off for this certificate, to see if it is the right one.
Tracy
Or you could wait for me to have a look and save yourself a few quid ;D
.... as long as the church record has the parents' names, Paul :)
Tracy - I've found Paul for you - what else do you want ;D ;D ;D
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It looks a very strong possible and will give you parents names. I think, if it was me, I would have ordered it already.
When and where was their first child born?
Gadget
Margaret was their first born in c1840 in Corwen.
Robert and Martha are listed in the 1841 census at the Eagles Inn.
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The Gwyddelwern one is the only Martha/Robert pairing that I can see around that time and vicinity on the N Wales BMD :)
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Presumably the marriage record will help find Martha's roots??? do you think??
Lets hope they lead to your Margaret, Gadget! ;D
Thanks again both of you.
Tracy
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Well, if they do, I didn't get much further with her. She was born Gwyddelwern 1805 - parents were Margaret Edwards and Robert Jones and then they disappear into the mists of time.
My Margaret's 3rd daughter was Martha - my great grandmother :)
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Well, if they do, I didn't get much further with her. She was born Gwyddelwern 1805 - parents were Margaret Edwards and Robert Jones and then they disappear into the mists of time.
My Margaret's 3rd daughter was Martha - my great grandmother :)
Have just looked at Gwyddelwern on Google earth.... gosh its only one road!!
When we found out that Robert and Martha had the Eagles Inn in Corwen we went and had a drink there. If I'd known Robert only come from 'up the road' we'd have stopped off there too! ::) Whereabouts is Llanfawr?
My Martha is my Gt Gt Gt grandmother!!!
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Llanfawr is a rural parish roughly WSW of Corwen towards Bala. I grew up in North Wales but didn't know either Lanfawr or Gwyddelwern existed until I started doing my tree ::)
Corwen, I've known from the year dot - had friends from there :)
Gadget
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Click for location of Llanfawr/Llanfor (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=293680&y=336600&z=5&sv=293680,336600&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)
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Thanks, Gadget ;D
Its even smaller than Gwyddelwern ::)
Tracy
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Don't be deceived by them as places. The churches were in the villages of those names but the parishes were much bigger:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MER/Llanfawr/index.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MER/Gwyddelwern/index.html
I've got the maps of the parish boundaries of Denbighshire and Merionethshire but they're copyright so can't put them up.
Gadget
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Hello Tracy, Gadget :)
I couldn't see a baptism for Martha in Gwyddelwern 1813-1820 :(
I don't have access to Llanfawr records for Robert :(
Gwyddelwern marriage June 28 1839.
Robert Jones. full age. bachelor. Farmer. abode, Pentre cwm, Cerrigydrudion. Father, Ellis. Occ, Farmer.
Martha Jones. full age. spinster. abode, Sh?? Druid. Father, William. Occ, Farmer.
Witnesses. Hugh Jones & G???? Jones.
Corwen baptisms 1839-1870.
Born Dec 6 1839. Baptised Jan 19 1840. Margaret. D/O Robert & Martha Jones. Corwen. Publican.
May 2 1846. Jane D/O Robert & Martha Jones. Eagles, Corwen. Innkeeper.
Oct 13 1850 Catherine D/O Robert & Martha Jones. Eagles, Corwen. Innkeeper.
1840 Trade Directory. Corwen. Spread Eagle(honest :-[) Robert Jones.
1856 Trade Directory. Corwen. Eagles. John Jones.
Paul.
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Hi Paul
Thats fantastic. Thanks so much for that. Have you got any ideas where I could look for Martha's baptism??
Thanks again for your help.
Tracy
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Paul's good, isn't he Tracy :)
Sad about your Martha and my Margaret not being related but all those Jones ::) ::)
I'll have a look for an Ellis Jones tomorrow in Llanfawr and another look for a William having children circa 1811 in Gwyddelwern.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget.
You never know.... they are probably related.... a few more generations back :D
Paul - were there only the three baptisms??
In the 1841 census its showing two daughters.... Margaret and Winifred
and in the 1851 census its showing five children...... Margaret, Winifred, Ellinor, Jane and William.... but no Catherine??
I wonder whether either father might show up in the 1841/ 1851 census's.
Where could I look for Martha??
Another question... where are:
Pentre cwm, Cerrigydrudion & Sh?? Druid?? Are they villages? Roads? Districts? in Merionethshire?
Tracy
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Hi Tracy.
Margaret, Jane & Catherine were the only baptisms I could see in Corwen 1839 1870.
Sorry, I've as much idea as you about Pentre cwm.... etc. but I bet you someone will let us know :)
Paul
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Hi Tracy.
Margaret, Jane & Catherine were the only baptisms I could see in Corwen 1839 1870.
Sorry, I've as much idea as you about Pentre cwm.... etc. but I bet you someone will let us know :)
Paul
Hi Paul
Was just going through a free disc I just got with a magazine - Black's picturesque tourist guide to Wales 1872..... and the guide takes you on the road from Corwen down to Bettws - y - Coed through various places including a place called Cerrig-y-Druidion!! Could this be the place Martha is from??
If so, where do we need to look for the registrations?
Thanks
Tracy
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Hi Tracy
Firstly, Cerrigydrudion is not in Gwyddelwern. It is a separate parish to the north of the parish of Llanfawr/Llanfor. Details of it can be found here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Cerrigydrudion/index.html
I think it might be worth you having a read through all of the appropriate pages on Genuki - most of the Denbighshhire ones have a map link. Also, have a look at many of the map resources online - including the old-maps site.
Gwyddelwern:
Baptism - Jan 13 1809 Margaret d/o William Jones (farmer) and Elizabeth, Ty Mawr
The only place that I can see in the records that comes near to the Druid in Gwyddelwern (as the entry implies it is) is Ddwyryd. Check the old-maps site for it's location. It might take a while as you will have to pan around the Gwyddelwern area but, as the maps are available on line, I think you ought to do this for yourself.
Llanfawr/Llanfor:
The only Ellis Jones having children around the time was this entry:
13 August 1806 Jane D/o Ellis Jones and Lydia, living in the village of Llanfawr/Llanfor itself.
These might be Robert's parents.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget.
I'll have a good look. I've been putting the villages in the present day google maps and its clear they were all fairly near each other. Its all very interesting.
Thanks again for your help.
Tracy
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Morning Gadget
I have a Margaret Jones b 1809 Gwyddelwern married to Morris Jones
b 1814 Llangwm Children Elizabeth 1833, Cadwaladr1838, Mary 1840,
Margaret 1841,Jane 1845,Morris 1850, and my connection Ellinor 1834
she was born in Bettws. I thought William and Elizabeth were their parents are you able to check this out ????
Thanks Moe
Hi Tracy
Gwyddelwern:
Baptism - Jan 13 1809 Margaret d/o William Jones (farmer) and Elizabeth, Ty Mawr
The only place that I can see in the records that comes near to the Druid in Gwyddelwern (as the entry implies it is) is Ddwyryd. Check the old-maps site for it's location. It might take a while as you will have to pan around the Gwyddelwern area but, as the maps are available on line, I think you ought to do this for yourself.
Gadget
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Hi Moe :)
I'm not able to check out the births of Margaret's and Morris's children unfortunately. It might be that the marriage of Margaret Jones and Morris Jones would be the way forward. I'm assuming that this would be circa 1832-3. I'll PM Paul to see if he might look for possible marriages of the pair in Llangwm/Bettws or Gwyddelwern.
I can confirm the baptism of Margaret in Gwyddelwern in 1809 though - as above.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi Gadget,
I have no problem with the children of Morris and Margaret Jones, Ellinor 1834 would be my g gm I was trying to confirm that her mother Margaret's (1809)
parents were William and Elizabeth Jones :) What confused me was in reference of your answer to Tracy and the tree line she is working on, I was wondering if there were two Margarets born in 1809??
I have Morris and Margaret in the 1841 and 1851 census but after that they just vanish into thin air I suspect one or both died because I believe I have some of the children visiting or staying with others from 1861 - 1901.
If you or Paul are able to verify the connection of my Margaret to William and Elizabeth it would help... Thank you in advance Moe
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Hi Moe
I can only say that there is a baptism in 1809 for a Margaret Jones d/o William and Elizabet Jones of Ty Mawr in the Gwyddelwern parish records.
I listed that one as the closest that I could find to Tracy's Margaret who was b. Gwyddelwern circa 1811.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
OK that clears it up for me .....Thanks Moe
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Hi Moe, could this be him, Bridget. It's the only one I could see.
Llangwm. March 13 1822.
Morris Jones(x) of Llangwm. bachelor.
Margaret Jones(x) of this parish.
Witnesses. Owen Owens & Henry Hughes.
Could only see one baptism up to 1850.
Dec 1 1822 Sarah d/o Morris & Margaret Jones. Llangwm. Farmer.
Paul.
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Hi Paul :)
If she was b. 1809, the 1822 marriage seems a bit early :-\
Bridget/Gadget
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Hi Paul :)
If she was b. 1809, the 1822 marriage seems a bit early :-\
Bridget/Gadget
Born or Baptised 1809?
Paul/Paul :-*
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Definitely baptised 13 Jan 1809 :)
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Hi Paul
I don't think so The 1841 census shows
Morris Jones 25 yrs old b 1816 (this has been rounded off from 27yrs old 1851 shows 37 b 1814. Ag. Lab. also Tyn Y Graig and Gwyddelwern.
Margaret Jones 30 yrs old 1811 (rounded from 33 shows 43 1808 christening may have been in 1809, I have a date 13 jan 1809 not sure if birth or christening) with the children listed in post above. Maybe the birth was 1808 worth a try.
I appreciate you getting back to me Paul.
Hi Moe, could this be him, Bridget. It's the only one I could see.
Llangwm. March 13 1822.
Morris Jones(x) of Llangwm. bachelor.
Margaret Jones(x) of this parish.
Witnesses. Owen Owens & Henry Hughes.
Could only see one baptism up to 1850.
Dec 1 1822 Sarah d/o Morris & Margaret Jones. Llangwm. Farmer.
Paul.
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Gwyddelwern marriage June 28 1839.
Robert Jones. full age. bachelor. Farmer. abode, Pentre cwm, Cerrigydrudion. Father, Ellis. Occ, Farmer.
Martha Jones. full age. spinster. abode, Sh?? Druid. Father, William. Occ, Farmer.
Witnesses. Hugh Jones & G?Huh Jones.
Robert Jones was a son of Ellis Jones (1785-1842), of Pentre Cwm, which was a farm in Cwmpenanner in the parish of Cerrigydrudion, close to its border with Llanfor parish. Ellis was the youngest child of Robert and Margaret Jones of Pentre Cwm.
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Gwyddelwern marriage June 28 1839.
Robert Jones. full age. bachelor. Farmer. abode, Pentre cwm, Cerrigydrudion. Father, Ellis. Occ, Farmer.
Martha Jones. full age. spinster. abode, Sh?? Druid. Father, William. Occ, Farmer.
Witnesses. Hugh Jones & G?Huh Jones.
Robert Jones was a son of Ellis Jones (1785-1842), of Pentre Cwm, which was a farm in Cwmpenanner in the parish of Cerrigydrudion, close to its border with Llanfor parish. Ellis was the youngest child of Robert and Margaret Jones of Pentre Cwm.
Thank you so much for this information. You wouldn't know who Ellis married would you??
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Ellis Jones married Gwen Roberts at Llanfor parish church on 29 December 1812. I don't know who Gwen was.
Their children were Robert (1813), Margaret (1814), John (abt 1816), Elinor (1819), Evan (1821), Jane (1823), Catharine (1825), Gwen (1828), Evan (1829), Susannah (1831), Ellis (1833) and David (1836) (it seems odd for there to be children born over a period of 23 years but it is correct).
Margaret and Susannah and their families emigrated to USA in 1851 and their mother Gwen (by then a widow) apparently went with them. Perhaps other members of the family went too.
How do you link to the family?
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My last post was misleading: Margaret and her husband Hugh Hughes and children emigrated in 1851, Susannah emigrated later (between 1851 and 1854) and married in USA, and their mother Gwen is said to have emigrated too, though the date is not known.
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Hi Lloyd
Robert (Ellis and Gwen's eldest) is my 3 x gt gf, who went onto marry Martha Jones. He was a publican and ran the Eagles Inn in Corwen for years.
His daughter, Jane Jones (b1846 in the pub at Corwen) married a William Pryce Evans, who came from Soughton Mountains.
The family story says that jane went to her wedding on the back of a donkey, which was only a few yards, as Corwen Church is literally just over the road from the pub!
How do you fit into the family? Whereabouts in the US, did they emigrate to? My cousin lives in the US?
Tracy
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Just to add another dimension to the Llanfawr/Llanfor ongoing dialogue, my gg grandmother Winifred Williams [nee Roberts] born there in 1849 was the daughter of William and Hannah Roberts of Llanfor
Last year I literally got in my car and allowed the sat nav. to take me there..... its incredibly small but there appears to be many Roberts living there since the early 1800s so I have found it incredibly difficult to 'trace' my Winifred's birthday cert and other ancestors details
Christine 8)
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Hi Christine
I'm still hoping that my 3 xgreat grandfather, John Robert(s) b.c. 1800, is there somewhere. I have all the parish records but I've not found anything conclusive yet :-\
He had a son, Robert b.c. 1822, and probably a daughter, Jane.
Gadget
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A video I took of St Beuno in Gwyddelwern.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84M98YeyQxI
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Hello Lloyd and others who have contributed to these old posts and which are of much interest to me.
I have a problem with my tree as I have failed to sort out my Jones family who have connections to Llaethrwyd - particularly the Jones who lived at Groen and Groudd - there may be several families who are related. Ellis John and Hugh are of particular interest. Can we share our knowledge please. John Ashley in Caerphilly
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It's been over ten years since most of these messages were posted, but I'm hoping someone might still be on this board who is connected to the Jones family from Pentre Cwm, most of whom emigrated to the United States in 1851. Lloyd, are you out there? I am a descendant of John Jones's daughter Margaret, who married Hugh Hughes and, after spending five years in Collinsville, NY, settled in Cambria, WI, USA. (Margaret and Hugh's daughter Ellin was my great-great-grandmother.)
If anyone is still following this board, kindly please let me know. I have US family information I'd be glad to share.