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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: nsc on Wednesday 09 July 08 20:06 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Can anyone help?
My Gt Gt Grandmother was Martha Hope, born c1834 in Nantwich, Cheshire. In the 1861 census, she is visiting her parents as Matrtha Moulton, aged 27, a Carter's Wife.
She is there again in 1871, (aged 35 ) with an 8 year old son, William Moulton, born in Montgomery, South Wales.
In later censuses, William records his birthplace as Crossinvar (I assume, a phonetic interpretation), Wales. In the 1901 Census, though, it looks like Crosinbar and someone has, it seems, written Carmarthenshire next to it. It may be somewhere like Croes (or Groes) yn fawr (or bach).
Anyway, I can't locate his birth, his father, nor his place of birth.
Can anybody help?
Thanks
Neil
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Hi Neil
Have you obtained any certificates for these events?
Looking at Freebmd there are a few possible births for William - only one in the right timeframe is in Wales (a bit early) and that's Monmouthshire.
This looks like a possibility for the marriage and it seems that the following birth registration might be your William - perhaps he was born in Cheshire after all?
Marriage
Sep 1857
Nantwich 8a 383
Martha HOPE
MOULTON John
Birth
Sep 1872
Nantwich 8a 336
MOULTON William
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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See this thread to avoid any duplicate searching:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314330.0.html
William born circa 1863, Arranroots :)
Gadget :)
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Thanks Gadget!
Just been doing some shotgun searching - how about these?
Glamorgan
Croes y Parc
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/PeterstonSuperEly/
Montgomeryshire
Croes Isaf (lower cross) - a farm in Llanidloes
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/POWYS/2007-03/1174637576
Carmarthenshire
Croes Ifan, Trelech
http://www.carmarthenshire-pages.co.uk/places/arts.htm
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The Croes Isaf and Ifan look possibles - it must be Croes or Groes <something> :)
However, there are a couple of Four Cross settlements in Montgomery :-\
As I said on the other thread, there is nothing showing in Montgomery for William. It might be that he was born there and registered somewhere else or not registered :-\
I've been looking for father John but nothing so far that looks anything like. As he was a carter, he could be anywhere :(
Gadget :)
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I wonder what William said about his father when he married?
Maybe John died before 1861 (which would explain why Martha is at home with her parents) and William was illegitimate? It wasn't uncommon for births to go unregistered in those days, so by changing districts Martha might have got away with it?
On the other hand, there are lots of William HOPEs registered.
Sorry to cast nasturtiums, but it's a possible explanation ...
:-\
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Yes - the more families I look into the more I think that all is possible :-\
There is a Groes-fawr in Denbighshire - just north of Ruthin. I looked at it this morning but rejected it. Then found the Carmarthenshire written in on the 1901.
here it is anyway:
Click for Groes-fawr (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=312500&y=365500&z=5&sv=312500,365500&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=312500&ay=365500)
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I can confirm Martha Hope's marriage to John Moulton - 13 Sept 1857 (Nantwich Parish Records). He was a labourer, and his father, George, was a butcher (living in Beam Street, Nantwich). Thus, marriage predates birth.
Yes, William's marriage certificate would be interesting.
Just a thought - on my mother's side, there are links to Llandudno. Was that in Caernarvonshire? (Carmarthenshire???)
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Llandudno was/is in Caernarvonshire:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Llandudno/index.html
Unfortunately,that's one of the areas that's not on the North Wales BMD :-\
Glad about the John info - so you might be able to find the Moultons on earlier censuses now :D
Gadget