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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: parsec on Wednesday 09 July 08 14:55 BST (UK)
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Hi there, trying to put together a family tree and am interested in finding out details of my partners grandfather. His name was James Tarbet Ross and as far as we can tell he was born in 1912 in St Mary's Dundee, he married an Honour Stella Lamb and had 5 children (details of which we know), he left Scotland for Canada late 1950's / early 60's before his 5th child was born?? and as far as we know re-married and had a second family. Any information regarding his parents, siblings or descendants in Canada would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Shaun
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Hi Shaun
His birth is registered as you have identified -
1912 James Tarbet Ross, St Peter, Dundee. GROS Ref - 282/01 0552
Unfortunately, these records are not online and can either be viewed in Edinburgh or can be ordered direct from GROS
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/bdm.html
This will give his parents's names.
However, there is a marriage in St Peter, Dundee in 1911 between a Thomas Ross and a Lily Mills Tarbett which looks a really good possible for his parents. This certificate will give details of their ages and parents.
The image of this marriage registration can be viewed and downloaded from www.scotlandspeople..gov.uk It's pay to view but very reasonable - for example, this would cost you 6 units (1 unit = 20p)
Regards
Gadget
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If these are the correct parents, here is Lily in the 1901 census:
21 Kincardine Street, St Peter, Dundee
282/1 ED 22 Household No. 44
James Tarbet, 47, jute mill mechanic, b. Forfarshire
Ann, 42, mechanic's wife, b. Perthshire
Maggie(?), 18, jute weaver, b. Dundee
Lily, 11, scholar, b. Dundee
Gadget
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1891Census
7 Bruce Street, St Clement, Dundee
282/3 ED 21A Household No. 312
James Tarbet, 39, mechanic fitter , b. Dundee
Annie, 35, mechanic fitter's wife, b. Dundee
Maggie(?), 8, b. Dundee
Lily, 11 months, b. Dundee
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1881
11 Kincardine St, St Peter, Dundee
282/1 ED 19 Household No. 93
James Tarbet, 29, Mill mechanic, b. Dundee
Annie, 28, Mill mechanic's wife, b. Alyth, Perthshire
I'm trying to locate their marriage but the SP site is down/very slow at the moment :-\
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:)
This looks good:
Marriage, 1878, St Peter, Dundee - James Tarbet and Ann Mills GROS Ref - 282/1 136
This can be viewed via the Scotlands People site as above.
Gadget
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There are a few too many Thomas Ross on the 1901 to definitely identify. I think the marriage cert of Thomas and Lily might be the best way of finding his line.
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Marriage cert of 1911 shows Thomas Ross's parents to be John Ross, a potter, deceased and Elizabeth Hughes, formerly Ross, maiden surname Lynch, deceased.
Thomas was a railway porter and aged 22 at the time of the marriage.
Gadget
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Sorry - I put up a message on the wrong thread - had two tabs open ::)
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I've asked for the previous message to be delete, so not sure if this will work.
However:
Elizabeth Hughes, formerly Ross, maiden surname Lynch (mother of Thomas Ross) died 10 December 1905 in the Maternity Hospital, Dundee from placenta praevia haemorrhage (a major complication of pregnancy when the placenta is attached very low down and breaks away partially or completely) . She is down as aged 36, which would mean that she was about 20 when Thomas was born - or he was younger that he said on his marriage cert .
Her husbands are listed as:
1. John Ross, a potter's labourer
2 John Hughes, a calendar worker
usual residence - 11 Kinloch Street.
Her parents are given as Michael Lynch, an Iron Works labourer, deceased and Mary Lynch, maiden surname Templeman.
The informant was John Hughes, her second husband.
Gadget
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Adding further info:
John Hughes and Elizabeth Lynch married in 1894, St Peter, Dundee, GROS Ref 282/01 144
So John Ross must have died before then.
I 've yet to find a marriage between John Ross and Elizabeth Lynch, although I've search with variations on surnames for Scotland as a whole, 1890 -1894.
Gadget
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and yet more:
This explains why I couldn't find a marriage:
1901 census
9 Kinloch Street, St Clement, Dundee
282/3 ED 18A Household No 378
John Hughes, 28, calendar worker (?)
Elizabeth, 33, calendar worker's wife, b. Lochee, Forfarshire*
Edward, 4, b. Lochee
Agnes, 3, b. Lochee
John, 1, b. Dundee
May E Ross, 16, jute spinner, b. England
William Ross, 15, rove jute spinner shifter (?), b. England
Thomas Ross, 14, scholar, b. England
* note that Lochee is an area of Dundee
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Very interesting - i wonder if Elizabeth moved back home after John died?
1891
47 Stafford Place, Thornaby, Yorkshre
RG12/4021 Folio 80 Page 18
John Ross, 25, potter's overman, b. Staffs, Hanley
Elizabeth, 23, b. Dundee, Scotland
Mary E, 5, b. Yorkshire South Ba?
William, 3, b. Staffs, Hanley
Thomas, 1, b. Durham, Norton
Samuel Jarvis, boarder, potter's salesman, b. Staffordshire, ?
Gadget
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and some more:
Marriage
Sept q, 1884, Middlesbrough, vol 9d page 742
Elizabeth Lynch and John Joseph Ross
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and now for the Irish link :-\
1871
90 Marsh Street, Hanley, Stoke on Trent
RG10/2867 Folio 30 Page 12
Thomas Ross, 38, labourer at Ironworks, b. Ireland
Elizabeth, 38, b. Ireland
Patrick, 17, labourer at Ironworks, b. Ireland
Margaret, 13, Capmaker's assistant, b. Hanley
Ellen, 11, scholar, b. Hanley
Julia, 9, scholar, b. Hanley
Hugh, 7, scholar, b. Hanley
John, 5, scholar, b. Hanley
Thomas, 3, b. Hanley
Elizabeth, 2, b. Hanley
Mary A, 8 months
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The IGI confirms Elizabeth Lynch's parents:
Birth - 16 Dec 1867, Dundee
Elisabeth Lynch d/o Michael Lynch and Mary Templeman
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Elizabeth's birth certificate gives her father as Michael Lynch, carter and her
mother as Mary, m.s. Templeman. They were married October 1st 1864,
Lochee, Dundee
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The actual marriage of Michael Lynch and Mary Templeman on the IGI (extracted) was 21st October 1865, Dundee.
Again this certificate can be obtained from Scotlands People:
Dundee Third District - GROS Ref - 282/03 78
Gadget
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and an explanation of how Elizabeth Lynch and John Ross met:
1871
19 Tennant Street Court, Stranton, Hartlepool, Co. Durham
RG10/4919 Folio 45 page 24
Michael Lynch, 31 (?), labourer, b. Ireland
Mary, 31 (?), b. Scotland
James, 5, b. Scotland
Elizabeth, 3, b. Scotland
Michael, 1, b. Sunderland, Co. Durham
and 5 boarders
Unfortunately, Michael's and Mary's ages have be written over. They could be 38, 30 or 31. I think 31 is the most likely.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi Shaun
I'm now starting to wonder how far I've got. I think I'll come back to the thread in the morning and write out a tree so that I can see where the gaps are :D
Goodnight or Good morning when you come here :)
Gadget
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Thank you so much - you have been a wonderful help- an amazing amount of information. Thank you for your time and effort
Shaun
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Good morning Shaun :)
Glad to be of help. I had a lovely mesage from your partner as well!
I'll just read through again what I've found and maybe get some more info up for you today.
Unfortunately , if you want the English certs, you'll have to order them - they're not online. This is the link:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Gadget
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A little more on the Lynch family:
1881
23 Tees Street, Ormesby, Yorkshire
RG11/4861 Folio 20 Page 35
Michael Lynch, 35, labourer, b. Cavan, Ireland
Mary, 35, b. Dundee
James, 14, labourer, b. Dundee
Elisabeth, 13, b. Dundee
Michael, 11, scholar, b. Sunderland, Co. Durham
William, 8, scholar, b. Hartlepool, Co. Durham
Mary, 6, scholar, b. Stockton, Co. Durham
Jessie, 4, b. Middlesbrough, Yorkshire
On their marriage cert of 1865, Michael is 28 and Mary is 25. I think Michael and Mary were 'economical' being with their ages on this census ;D
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The marriage cert of 21 October 1865 between Michael Lynch and Mary Templeman shows Michael's parents to be Euan Lynch, a weaver and Mary, m.s. Flood.
Mary's were William Templeman, a blacksmith and ?Jess m.s. Pennycuik - both deceased
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Nearest that I can find for Mary Templeman on the IGI is :
Baptism - Mary Anne Templeman - 24 June 1838, St Vigeans, Angus
Parents - William Templeman and Jean Scrimgeour
Jess/Jessie could be a diminutive of Jean but I'll have to do more checking*
The Lynch line was from Cavan in Ireland according to the census, so there might be some work for you to do there :-\
* checked on the 1851 census - this William was a flax dresser not a Blacksmith :(
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the most likely family in 1851:
206 Seagate Webster land, Dundee
282 ED 7 Page 9
William Templeman, 53, Blacksmith , b. Dundee
Margaret Thomson,wife, 55, domestic duties, b. Forfar
Elizabeth Templeman, daughter, 14, mill worker b. Dundee
Elizabeth Gall, daughter, 14, mill worker, b. Dundee
Jean Thomson, lodger, 22, mill worker, b. Dundee
Jean Davidson, lodger, 17, mill worker, b. Dundee
Robert Bayne, lodger, 2, b. Dundee
Not sure who's who here - it could well be that this is William's second marriage :-\
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and the 1841 confirms that Janet/Jess Pennycuik died 1841-1851:
Cotton Road, Dundee
William Templeman, 43, Smith
Jannet Penycook, 36
Amely (?emily), 14
Janet, 12
Mary, 4
Elisabeth, 2
all born Angus
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Summary of the Ross line:
James Tarbet Ross b. 1912, Dundee
Parents - Thomas Ross and Lily Mills Tarbet (m. 1911, Dundee)
Thomas Ross b.c. 1889, Norton, Co. Durham
Parents - John Ross and Elizabeth Lynch (m. 1884, Middlesbrough, Co. Durham)
John Ross b.c. 1866, Hanley, Staffordshire
Parents - Thomas Ross and Elizabeth (m. ? Ireland)
Both Elizabeth and Thomas Ross b.c. 1833, Ireland
Elizabeth Lynch b. 1867, Dundee
Parents - Michael Lynch and Mary Templeman (m. 1865, Dundee)
Michael Lynch b.c. 1837 Cavan, Ireland
Parents - Euan Lynch and Mary Flood
Mary Templeman b.c. 1839, Dundee
Parents - William Templeman (b.c. 1798, Dundee) and Janet(Jessie) Pennycuik (b.c. 1805, Angus d. before 1851)
I'll sort out the Tarbets later :)
Gadget
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James Tarbet (father of Lily Mills Tarbet)
b.c. 1852, Dundee m. Ann Mills, 1878, Dundee. Aged 25 at marriage
Parents - Colin Tarbet (contracting carter) and Margaret Mattheson (dec in 1778)
Colin Tarbet m Margaret Mattherson 1856, Dundee
Colin Tarbet b.c. 1832
Parents - David Tarbet and Margaret McKenzie
Margaret Matte(r)son b.c. 1836
Parents - Alexander Matthe(r)son (a seaman) and Margret Mcgrigor (sic)
I've not chased this line on the census.
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Ann Mills (mother of Lily Mills Tarbet)
b. 19 Sept 1853, Alyth Perthshire (IGI- extracted)
Parents - John Mills (dec by 1878), a seaman (merchant shipping) and Betsy Anderson (m. 25 Feb 1853, Alyth - IGI)
Elisabeth (Betty/Betsy) Anderson b.c. 1826, (1871 census) and 1823 (1881 census), Alyth
Have yet to locate John on censuses - maybe at sea
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Elisabeth Mills, m.s. Anderson (widow of John Mills) died 1904, Dundee, aged 78.
Parents - Thomas Anderson, shoemaker and Janet, m.s. Mitchell, both deceased
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Found Colin Tarbet and his parents in 1851 :D
Sootshand, Foot of Hilltown, Dundee
282 ED 72 Page 5
David Tarbit, 44, labourer, b. Dundee
Margaret McKenzie wife, 50, b. Perthshire
Collin Tarbit, 18, Hackler, b. Dundee
Andrew Tarbit, 16, labourer, b. Dundee
Peter Tarbit, 13, hackler, b. Dundee
Robert Tarbit, 8, at school, b. Dundee
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Looks as if Margaret died before the 1861 and David Tarbet took a new wife:
1861
61 Hilltown, Dundee
282/1 ED 23 Household No 362
David Tarbat, 50, starcher
Christina, 37,
Peter, 23, Calender
Robert, 19, Calender
Alexander, 7
Helen, 6,
Margaret, 4,
Jessie, 1
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On behalf of Andrea, the Ross family and myself I would like to publicly thank "Gadget" for the amazing amount of effort put into this research. Not only is this information filling in holes on pieces of paper and in software, but it is filling in blanks to real people. We still have a long way to go, but the response to this query has been truly staggering.
I am humbled at your generous response.
Thanks
shaun :)
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I haven't finished yet, Shaun ;D
But thank you for your acknowledgement - it's nice to know that I'm helping :D
I've been following David Tarbet through the censuses and find that he finally died on Augst 19 1899, aged 82:
widower of 1. Margaret McKenzie 2. Christina Mitchell
His parents were William Tarbet a nail <something> driver and Jane, m.s. Walker, both unsurprisingly deceased.
Gadget :)
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and Margaret Mattheson :)
1851
98 Seagate, Dundee
282 ED 13 Page 15
Alex. Mathewson, 50, seaman*
Margaret McGregor, wife, 50
Elizabeth, 24, flax spinner
Aleson, 20, flax spinner
Margaret, 16, flax spinner
Ann, 13, factory girl
Thomas, 10, at school
All b. Dundee
Added - the name seems to vary - Mattheson/Matthewson/Mattherson
* in 1861 Alexander is a cook onboard ship, (vessels-Dundee) no wrong one - will put up the 1861 in a moment. He could have been listed in both places though !
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1861
61 Cowgate, Dundee
282/1 ED 6 Houshold No. 1
Alex. Mathewson, 63, seaman,
Margret, 63
Thomas, 20, fitter - apprentice
Robert, 7 (down as son!), at school
All b. Dundee
As they lived after 1855, we should be able to find their deaths and thus their parents
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Alexander Mathewson died Dundee 1889,Seaman, M.S., aged 81. Widower of Margaret McGregor
Parents - James Mathewson. ag. labourer and Elizabeth n.s. possibly Law(s) - will be in touch with this one as well!
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Margaret Mathewson died 7 Dec 1868, aged 62.
Parents - John McGregor, jobbing labourer and Elizabeth m.s. Howie
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Going back to the Mills/Anderson line ~
Elisabeth Mills, m.s. Anderson (widow of John Mills) died 1904, Dundee, aged 78.
Parents - Thomas Anderson, shoemaker and Janet, m.s. Mitchell, both deceased
The IGI has the following children born to Thomas Anderson and Janet Mitchell in Alyth, Perthshire
12 June 1824 - Betty
30 June 1826 - James
11 August 1828 - Janet
21 April 1831 - Cecilia Colville
28 April 1840 - William Smith
I think a check on the censuses is called for!
Gadget
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1841
Lopel Road, Alyth
328 ED 5 Page 1
Thos. Anderson, 36, shoe M I (Shoe maker Independent means)
Jannet, 39
James, 14
Jennet, 12
Cecilia, 10
William, 1
all born Perthshsire
Elisabeth/Betty/Betsy must have left home by then
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The marriage entry of John Mills and EliZabeth Anderson in Alyth in 1853 records:
John Mills mariner in the Parish of Dundee and Elizabeth Anderson Mill Street, Alyth Daughter of the Late Thomas Anderson shoemaker, Dundee.....................
So they obviously moved to Dundee and Thomas died between 1841 and 1853
Gadget
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Hi. James Tarbet Ross Married Honour Stella Lamb and had 5 children in Forfar. James was a photographer and had a studio above a high street shop. He ran away to Canada and married a lady called May( i dont know surname or date )
Hope this helps