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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: matildakin on Wednesday 09 July 08 14:39 BST (UK)
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I have some ancestors (three siblings) who lived in Ware in the late 1700s, early 1800s. A search of the IGI turns up marriages which appear to be matches except that they were registered at Saint Leonards in Shoreditch (1804 and 1807) and Saint Helen in Bishopsgate (1806). I spoke to an attendant at the local Latter Day Saints genealogy centre and he cast doubt on the idea that people in those times would make the trip from Ware to London to get married.
I acquired copies of the registrations and they all indicate that the participants were “of this parish”.
These were ordinary people (one was a wheelwright and another was a carpenter) who spent their lives in Ware. Is it likely that these London marriages are unrelated or is there a plausible explanation for Ware folk running down to Shoreditch to marry?
mat
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Hi
I presume you have already looked for these marriages in the Ware PR's, did the wives come from outside the parish of Ware?
Can you give some more details on who you are looking for and someone might be able to help
Rosie
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I’m afraid that I have no access to the Ware parish records. I’ve been working mostly from the IGI, the censuses and GRO certificates.
The three siblings are John Tilcock (1780-1825), William Tilcock (1782-1861) and Marie/Maria Tilcock (b. 1785).
I have a copy of John’s apprenticeship contract to wheelwright John Mardall of Ware in 1793. According to the IGI, John Tillcock and Mildred Chapman married at Saint Leonards on November 1, 1804. The copy of the marriage registration that I was able to acquire shows Maria Tillcock as a witness. Per the IGI, John and Mildred Tillcock had a number of children christened in Ware from 1805 to 1824. It may be a coincidence but there was a Chapman (Mary) present at son Joseph’s death in 1870.
Per the IGI, William was christened in Ware in 1782. He apprenticed to “William Smart, Carpenter & Joiner of Ware” in 1796. The IGI shows a William Tillcock and Sarah White marrying at Saint Leonards on August 25, 1807. William Tillcock (occ: carpenter) and wife Sarah show up in Thundridge in the 1851 and 1861 censuses.
Per the IGI, Marie was christened in Ware in 1785. The IGI shows an Edward Hale and Maria Tillcock marrying at Saint Helen, Bishopsgate, on September 22, 1806. The IGI also shows Edward and Maria Hale having a number of children christened in Ware from 1807 to 1827. The couple appear in Ware in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. Maria Hale’s age and place of birth in the 1851 census are in sync with the christening record.
I may be jumping to conclusions about the marriages but they do seem to tie in well, apart from the locations.
mat
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I also have some ancestors who were residents of Ware and married in London (St George in the East) in 1799.
Various other family members married far from home as well - one in Dover (think they eloped ::)) The "wife" was a Ware resident prior to marriage as well so it wasn't a case of "going home" to be married.
I would accept the fact that Ware residents did travel to London for many reasons - one of which would be for marriage, particularly if they (either party) was a Non-conformist and did not like the minister of the local CofE church.
As everything else matches up - I'd say that they are your family's Marriages. Matching and checking the witnesses is also good for confirmation.
Di
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A lot of Ware people married in London...........dont forget the River Lea and the barges...........one of mine even got married in Norfolk!!
Hals now has marriages online and some other records
https://www.hertsdirect.org/ufs/ufsmain?esessionid=C576914DE08F5AB130183CE6A0F25EC2_1&formid=HALS_INDEXES
sandie
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Hi Mat
I believe that it was considered very fashionable for country folk to marry in London. They often rented "suitcase addresses" in order to qualify to be married within a parish.
I have several instances of this in my own tree, though one of them was an elopement!
Rick :)
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I agree with Rick. It was very fashionable for the craftsmen and small farmers to be married in London.
David
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Almost all of my Page family - longtime residents of Ware - were married in London. They were maltmakers and bargemen and I presume took a barge down the river Lea.
Cheers
Indi
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Hi there
Agree with everyone else. I have done a great deal of research on my family roots, all East Herts, and many married in East London. As Indi says the River Lea provided transport into London by barge because of the thriving malt industry there. In fact, the town was the largest producer of malt in the UK at one time. Dont also forget that the road we now know as the A10 was a main road link in and out of London passing right by Shoreditch and Bishopsgate. So, I would say you do have the right marriages.
Cheers
Denise
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Hi there, not sure if i am doing it right but saw you had a posting about Tillcocks from Ware. I am descended from William Tillcock and was wondering if you had any information on him or the other Tillcocks.
Many thanks John
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Hello,
I hope you are still monitoring this posting! I'm descended from the William Tillcock & Sarah White marriage. I'm sure you've figured out the answer to your question by now, but I do know that you were on the right track. I have William's father's will and he mentions Maria's husband as being Edward Hale. I too had wondered how William and Sarah had ended up marrying in London. Are you related to the Tillcocks?
Sarah
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Thank you chatters!
I needed reminding about "suitcase marriages".
Wonderful!
Off we go (again)
Ray
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Just one more for the pot. I am descended from the John Tillcock/Mildred Chapman marriage and Yes! for whatever reason, more than a few of their descendants married in London.
Chooch.
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I'd just like to say what an eye-opener this thead has been. My g.g. grandmother Mary Wood was born in Chipping, Herts (just down the road from Buntingford), and my g.g. grandfather came from "Middlesex, London". I've been trying to find a link between the two places for ages, and after reading this thread, the penny finally dropped !
Many thanks to all :)
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In the same context as this thread. The area surrounding London consisted mainly of farms providing for the city. You thus would find members of the farming families transporting, by cart, produce including hay into London on a regular basis. They were thus familiar with London and had many opportunities to meet their future partners there.
David
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Hi Sarah (sofietca) i am the gggg grandson of Sampson Tillcock, son of William, is that the same as your William??
Tried to pm you but won't let me for some reason.
Kind regards John
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Hi Cooch, that must make us related too ???
Regards John
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Hi John - I haven't yet done three posts so it won't let me send or receive PMs.
Yes, your Sampson was the brother of my Thomas Staines Tillcock, son of William. Sampson had three children right? Henry, Horace, and Anna Maria?
You can email me at (*).
Sarah
Hi Sarah (sofietca) i am the gggg grandson of Sampson Tillcock, son of William, is that the same as your William??
Tried to pm you but won't let me for some reason.
Kind regards John
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Hi John, Yes! it looks like we have a connection too.
Mary Tillcock, daughter of John b.1780, Williams brother, was my gggrandmother.
Regards
Chooch :)
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Chooch,
Is that the Mary Tillcock (1824-1895?) who married William Page? I'm a descendant of her brother Joseph (1817-1870).
mat
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Hello Mat,
Yes, Mary and William are my gggrandparents. Happy to make contact with you. :)
Chooch.
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I've had exactly the same problem: mine was a DOM in 1803, between William Heard, nee 1781, and Mary Jones ( both nee Ware), at St. Ethelburga's, Bishopsgate, both said to be OTParish. I reluctantly accepted it, after looking on the map and seeing it was a f. easy run-in. My direct ancestor is William Heard, nee Ware 1781, of Richard and Mary (I think). He died in Ware 1832 (DOBur 24/12/32), age 54, and is said to be near his wife, Mary (DOBur 1833, age 51, but also, confusingly, near his 'sister' Mary (DOBur 1831, age 70). This must surely be his mother, Mary. Misinformation (like William Heard, nee 1781, not being down as 'deceased', on his daughter's Marriage Certif. in 1848, has caused much uncertainty. I would be most grateful, if anyone also interested in this line (he was a bargeman), could tell me who his father was, for sure, as so many Wm Heards, were born about the same time as him.
dorisi