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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: babygirl101 on Wednesday 09 July 08 13:22 BST (UK)
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I have recently come across the following newspaper report about a WISDOM
SMITH. It was dated Tuesday 13th September 1853 and relates to his then
recent wedding to an AMY HAYWOOD:-
Marriages -
"Sept 5, at the Abbey Church, Bourn, bu the Rev. Walker Scott, Wisdom
Smith to Amy Haywood. Both parties are gipsies, and notwithstanding
their advanced age, they tripped gaily on 'the light fantastic' to the
fiddle and the tambourine. The buxom bride is in her 66th year, and
she is the third wife Wisdom has led from the altar".
I have checked on FreeBMD and there was a marriage on that date shown
for them. If Any was Wisdom's 3rd wife - does anyone know who the
rest were??
I can't find a census return showing an Amy & Wisdom around that date,
but there is an entry for a Wisdom Smith on the 1861 census with him
being married to a Hannah and on the 1881 census there's a Wisdom who
is married to a Sarah in Lincs.
Can anyone solve this mystery please.
Many thanks
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Hi
1851
Wisdom Smith head mar 66 gipsey b Northampton
Elizabeth wife 65 b Oxon
Letitia dau 24 b Kiddington Oxon
Isabel dau 16 b Burfield oxon
Cornelius grandson 9 b Witney Oxon
according to IGI there are various submitted entries for their children stating that the mother is Elizabeth Gentle.
I wonder if this is 'your' Wisdom?
will search further
deb :)
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Hi Deb
Many thanks for your reply, however, I've already checked out that connection and unfortunately it's not 'my' Wisdom. The dates and parents don't match up. 'My' Wisdom was born in 1804, Twyford Leicestershire, but thank you for trying, it's greatly appreciated.
Best Wishes
BG
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Ooooooooops, that last message should have read 5th June, 1796, Twyford Leicestershire. Parents Hannah & Wisdom.
Think I've spent too much time on this today.
BG ;D
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have you tried the romanygenes website?
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Hi
1851
Wisdom Smith head mar 66 gipsey b Northampton
Elizabeth wife 65 b Oxon
Letitia dau 24 b Kiddington Oxon
Isabel dau 16 b Burfield oxon
Cornelius grandson 9 b Witney Oxon
according to IGI there are various submitted entries for their children stating that the mother is Elizabeth Gentle.
I wonder if this is 'your' Wisdom?
will search further
deb :)
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There were quite a few Wisdom Smiths. And at least two Wisdom and Hannah Smiths.
Its easy to get confused and I worked them all out only to have yet another PC crash and Im not sure how much is salvageable, and am still in the process of rescuing data, ... so at this moment in time cant be much help. But I WILL be back.
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A very kind person has sent me some information which seems to have answered my question.
Wisdom Smith (b 1796), son of William (1763 - 1839, Steeple Claydon, Bucks) & Hannah was married to an Esther (Smith) on 10th May 1813, South Witham, Lincolnshire according to the original register.
He then married a Maria Elet on 1st July 1818, Saltby Leicestershire ;
then in 1853 by Amy Haywood - quite a collection!!!
BG ;D
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The Maria Ellet you refer to was Maria Elliott. (its not a transcription error, it was written down wrong originally).
The Haywoods turn up again with another Rom family. Think it was the Newberrys.
Will look it all up tomorrow when Ive finished uploading everything again.
Oh and Ive just noticed.... Not William & Hannah of Steeple Claydon, it was Wisdom Smith and Hannah Smith. they married at Bletchington Oxon 03.03.1782.
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to Debia looking for info on gentle family one of them married wisdom smith please contant me kathbn@yahoo.co.uk,i look forward to hearing from you or anyone with more information thanks kath
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Thank you for the Maria Elliott correction, there appear to be many errors, transcription and otherwise and now I've just added to it with my William instead of Wisdom (I do actually have him recorded correctly in my database, as Wisdom) :D.
I've been at this far, far toooooooo long today.
Once again, many thanks
BG ;D
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Hi again, slowly trawling through things here - probably have to continue tomorrow.
Wisdom b.1763
Wisdom and Hannah had (so far):
Edward Smith c.04.12.1786 Watford Nthants
Eunice or Unity c.16.01.1792 Long Buckby Nthants married James Smith
Nathaniel Smith c.20.12.1792 Long Buckby Nthants married Patience
Robert Smith c.13.03.1794 Whitwick Leic married Evening Smith.
Lissy Smith c.1795 Wolvey Wks,
Salvino Smith c.24.05.1798 Moulton Nott
Bertha/Bethania/Bethany Smith c.24.08.1800 Seaton Rutland married William Gray b.cir 1795. Also married James Mobbs.
Tabitha Smith c.16.11.1803 Cropwell Bishop Nthants married William Gray b.(cant remember did find the bapt) I think 1794 Ashwell Herts s/o Charles & Equally (Aquila).
Salome Smith c.12.07.1807 Irthlingboro Northants married William Smith 1824 Helpston Northants.
Now Wisdom b.1796 Twyford married several times
By Maria Elliott Wisdom had:
Wisdom c.05.06.1818 Benefield Nthants who married Hannah.
Hercules c.20.05.1821 Wansford Nthants
Offa (female) c.20.04.1823 Swayfield Lincs
Maria c.17.12.1826 Nth Witham Lincs
Abigail c.22.03.1829 Castle Bytham Lincs
Matilda c.17.07.1831 Essendine Rutland.
Eunice/Unity and James Smith also had a Wisdom Smith, c.12.11.1812 Woolsthorpe, Lincs, who married Eliza Boswell. Their son Wisdom married Priscilla Bagley.
Hope that helps!
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Hi
That's a great help, thank you so much. You have confirmed one other relative that I thought was connected to Wisdom Smith:-
Robert Smith c.13.03.1794 Whitwick Leic married Evening Smith.
As far as I can tell Robert was my great, great, great, great grandfather.
Certainly what appears to be his son, Robert b. 1830 was my great, great, great grandfather as I have his details on his daughter (Lydia/Lida Ingleton Smith's) marriage certificate and it all ties together with the census returns too.
I'd love to know who Evening was but there's nothing about her apart from that she was born about 1801 in Leicestershire according to the 1841 census.
Best Wishes
BG
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According to the IGI an Evening Smith was baptised 21.12.1793 at Churchover Warwickshire.
There are no parents names listed on the IGI, but there probably are on the original parish register.
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Once again, thank you for that. I'd come across that name, but given that it gave her surname as Smith, I wasn't sure if it was the right person, as she then married a Smith - but I guess she could have been from another part of the family.
BG
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Dont forget that back in those days especially, intermarriage was the norm for rom families. To them it was keeping the bloodline pure. It does make it interesting trying to draw up complicated family trees though!!
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You may well be right. I'll do some more searching around that option and see where it leads to !!!!
Many thanks :D
BG
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If you should find out her parents names, please share :)
Thanks,
Ann
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of course I will... for some reason I've recorded a Thomas Smith c1763 & his wife Mary Brown, but I've absolutely no recollection where I've got this information from !!!
BG
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Circa 100 years later I also have a Thomas Smith and Mary Brown, who were the parents of Deliah Smith c.1848 Ludborough Lincs. My Grt Grt Grandmother. So if there is a much earlier Smith/Brown link Id be VERY interested.
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My name is Wisdom James. My Greatgrandmother was a Selina Smith married to Henry James. All Romanies. Tere are several Wisdoms. Selina had a Wisdom Smith as a nephew. He would have been younger than your Wisdom Smith. Selina was born 1841. I have an extensive family tree on Genes Reunited. Are you a member. Have you any more info on the family/do you want any info.
Regards Wisdom James
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HI Wisdom was your selina any relation to Freedom James who married Cornelius Gentle? Cornelius father was John Gentle born Alkerton ox there was an Elizabeth Gentle born Tibford Gower ox it seems they could be related hope i have helped (*)
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Found this baptism at Wappenham, Northants
Oct 6th 1786 Wisdden or Wisdom son of Jasper and Cate Smith
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Wisdom Smith married Elizabeth Gentle, her brother John Gentle is my 4xggrandfather, he married Letitia Davies.
Cornelius Gentle married Freedom James, Jane Gentle my 3 x greatmather married William Upton.
If any of the above names ring a bell please contact me.
To Kath.
Do you still have my email address?
Jean
in Australia
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Wisdom Smith married Elizabeth Gentle, her brother John Gentle is my 4xggrandfather, he married Letitia Davies.
Cornelius Gentle married Freedom James, Jane Gentle my 3 x greatmather married William Upton.
If any of the above names ring a bell please contact me.
To Kath.
Do you still have my email address?
Jean
in Australia
Not sure how to use this website, but I too am 3x great granddaughter to Jane Gentle, only started doing this research a few days ago....amazed by Romany connection, most of my other relatives never moved anywhere!
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Hi,
You need to make 3 posting before you can pm me, l will try to send you a pm. To get to 3 posting just answer this post and perhaps another one saying if you go my pm and then we can see what we have together.
Tarnee
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Ok, thanks for that, will keep posting until I am able to pm
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Hello Wisdom this is reply to email hope i am doing it right as Ihad blue writing on last mail [] not that good with computers] I would love to know what you have on Gentle family were Eizabeth and John Gentle siblings everything seems to tie in I have John Gentle Alkerton OX married Sarah Loveridge 7 of april1828 witnesses W SMITH and JACOB WALTLETT could the W BE wisdom I would be grateful if you are able to help me ps John who married Sarah is eldest son of John Gentle regards Kath kathbn@yahoo.co.uk
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I find it interesting that Wisdom married Amy in 1853. From what I can tell Mary Elliott died much after that. Am I wrong? Did someone find a death for Maria (Elliott) Smith?
Thanks, Tammy
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Which Wisdom Smith is this with a 'wife' Mary, 1871 census:
1871 England Census about Windom Smith
Name: Windom Smith
[Wisdom Smith]
Age: 75
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Relation: Wife's Father (Father-in-law)
Spouse's Name: Mary Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Twibell, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Doncaster
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Doncaster
Sub-registration District: Doncaster
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household Schedule Number: 193
Piece: 4718
Folio: 22
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Adams 42
Elizabeth Adams (wife) 41
Thomas Adams 18
Robert Adams 12
Eliza Adams 7
Joseph Adams 3
Wisdom Smith 75 (father of wife)
Mary Smith 67 (mother of wife)
If this is the one who married Amy in 1853.. did Amy die and he got back with his 2nd wife?
Interesting...
Tammy