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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: jimwalkersligo on Sunday 06 July 08 07:30 BST (UK)
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Hello: July 7, 2008
I hope this mail finds you healthy and happy!
Could you please help me?
I am looking for any information, including current addresses or contact information, historical geneology information, for my great uncles etc... and related family. They are known as the Williams - Drummond family please.
Below is some information I have developed off the internet.
Thank you for your time.
Kind Regards,
Jim Walker
1 Sir James WALKER-DRUMMOND
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Birth: 1814, Edinburgh Parish Edinburgh, Midlothian, 1066691
Death: 1866
Occupation: Captain Grenadier guards, retired in 1844
Father: Sir Francis WALKER-DRUMMOND (1781-1844)
Mother: Margaret Anne Forbes DRUMMOND (1791-1876)
3rd Baronet
Llether Cadfan estate, 1474-1760, and Court Derllys estate (rentals?)
Name changed to Williams - Drummond from Walker - Drummond upon this marriage
Walkers in Scotland website
12072 - Francis WALKER, Margaret DRUMMOND, (M) bapt, 31 Aug 1812, James WALKER, Edinburgh Parish Edinburgh, Midlothian, 1066691
Spouse: Mary Eleanor Hamlyn WILLIAMS
Birth: 1826
Death: 1872
Children: Sir James Hamlyn Williams (1857-1913)
Francis Dudley (1863-1935)
1.1 Sir James Hamlyn Williams WILLIAMS-DRUMMOND,
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Birth: 1857
Death: 1913
4TH BARONET
Edwinsford, Llandilo: Hawthornden, MidLothian
Spouse: Madeline Diana Elizabeth AGNEW
Marriage: 30 Jan 1889
Children: Sir James Hamlyn Williams (1891-1970)
Madeline Edith
Constance Gertrude Cecily
Frances Victoria
1.1.1 Sir James Hamlyn Williams WILLIAMS-DRUMMOND,
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Birth: 1891
Death: 1970
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Are you aware of the Estate Records of the Williamas-Drummond family of Edwinsford Talley held at the National Library at Aberystwyth.
Nigel Williams
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>>>Are you aware of the Estate Records of the Williamas-Drummond family of Edwinsford Talley held at the National Library at Aberystwyth.
Nigel Williams<<
Hello Mr. Williams:
Thank you kindly for your reply and information.
Until your posting, I was unaware of this most interesting information. The small amount that I have was kindly presented to me by a gentleman in England.
What little I have read on the Williams - Drummond family has been very rewarding. I am open to any and all referrals.
Thank you for your time and energy. I will attempt to locate the library online and obtain information, possibly through the mail.
Kind Regards,
Jim Walker
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Google "NLW" then click on catalogues, then "catalogued since 1999", then search on "Edwinsford".
The old mansion is a ruin now, but there is a wealth of information on it also pictures of the place. My ancestors were tenants of the Edwinsford estate and my grandfather and great grandfather worked there as masons.
Nigel.
P.S. If you look up "www.old-maps.co.uk and type in Llansawel you will find the place south of the village.
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Mr. Williams:
Thank you for your further information. I spent quite some time last night trying every conceivable search to no avail. I will now try your method.
My father and grandfather were ALSO stone masons and I have had the blessing to do several side jobs for friends. My father died when I was 19, but I had the privilidge to work alongside him on many jobs. My father was a true artist, and my grandfather actually lay brick when he was legally blind. I am as yet to own a home and will do work on my own place if that ever happens.
I see also that your residence is listed as Bridgend. My ancestral home in East Linton, Scotland was named Bridgend. It sits adjacent to the Tyne river in East Linton, East Lothian, Scotland.
I am hoping to visit Scotland and Wales in the summer of 2009 as I have been invited to compete at the Scottish Highland games Masters World Championships Heavy Athletics, if I can find a sponsor.
That would be a great time to visit the lands of my great uncles, and maybe find a living relative after 15 years of research.
Thank you again for your time and effort in sharing this research information.
I would send a personal mail, but listing e-mail addresses is not allowed in Europe apparently.
Your kindness is greatly appreciated by my wife and I.
Kind Regards,
Jim R Walker
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Hello jimwalkersligo,
I've posted this before but for some reason it can't have reached you.Try typing www.carmarthenshirehistorian.org then type Edwinsford in the search box.You will find a comprehensive article on Edwinsford and the Drummond family.
Regards,brawd houdini
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Bore Da, My Grandfather Idris Davies of Wern-las, Talley new the Edwinsford Mansion well as well as my mother nee Jean Davies. Have you tried the National Archives web site, just type in Edwinsford and it should reveal a wealth of archives. Such a great shame the building was left to become a ruin. Do you know the area? Cheers :)
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Hi Again, There are a number of members of the Drummond Family buried in St Michaels, Talley. A truly enchanting and beautiful part of the world including the Abbey, having been brought up in Talley myself. Regards, Stephen Evans.
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Hello Stephen,
Noswaith Dda,I notice that you are an Evans-any relation to the Pencarreg Evans clan?Or come to that Evans in Llanllwni,Llanybydder,Cwmann or over the border in Cardiganshire?Davies maybe in Cwmann?
You were truly fortunate to have been brought up in Talley-what a setting for a Monastery!If the Monks needed any inspiration it was there by their front door.I agree when you state that it's a shame that Edwinsford has been allowed to fall into rack and ruin but the greater shame to my eyes is that Talley was wrecked during the dissolution of the monastries.What a sight a complete abbey would be.
Very interesting that it belonged to a different order of monks than the Cistercians.
Pob hwyl,Regards,David
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Hello, Thanks for that, yes connected with the Evans of Llanybydder. My great grandfather was Evan Evans who married a Annie Herbert. He was a chemist and built the buildings that became the Arcade in Ammanford, and lived at Gwynfryn the former school set up by Watcyn Win. His family were farmers from Llanybydder. My Grandfather on my mothers side, Idris Davies owned along with his brothers the Plas Dinas quarries near Llansawel which I think was part of the Drummond estate. He became High Sheriff of Carmarthenshire in 1962. The GENUKI, Talley site has some interesting information on the area. Regards Stephen
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Apologies Davis, But it was Pen y Ddinas Quarries. Regards, Stephen
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Hi All. Sorry for the slight delay, but my Grand Father Idris Davies had to pay a shilling a ton for every stone taken away from the quarry, the quarries were sold in the sixties trading under D Davies & Sons Limited. It was sold onto Bath & Portland. Best Wishes :)
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Hello,
I was passing by and was given a link to your posting. I don't know if you may have any details within your family search, but I am trying to trace some details on the Drummond family. I have researched the Williams-Drummond family and know who they are, but this is my position.
My ancestors are from Caio, well Cwrt y Cadno to be more precise. Anyway, in 1874 my great grandmother, Elizabeth Davies was born to mother Mary Davies, no father. Like most in those days, living in two up two down or worse and labourers. However, after her marriage, Elizabeth came into a lot of money. I have been told that the father was Sir James Drummond or one of the brothers. I spent some time researching in 2007 and a local lady confirmed that she knew Elizabeth and remembers her coming into money, which in those days, as she said "was thousands of pounds, not hundreds". She managed to farm at a place called Garth and going through the family research, I'm not sure this would've been possible without some money. I am also advised by a living cousin that her parents had to seek the permission of the Drummonds in Marble Arch for their marriage, if there is not connection, why did they have to? Anyway, I haven't managed to get any will or paper work but wondered if there was any family gossip or help you could enlighten me with seeing as you are researching your family, Williams-Drummond. Thank you
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Hello Caio Researcher You may like to start off with the National Archives of Wales at Aberystwyth, where the Drummond Estate Papers of Edwinsford are kept. You could try the Parish Records which are at the Carmarthen Records Office. Regards, Stephen Evans :)
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Hi All, You maybe interested to learn that the current March/April 2009 edition of the Welsh Magazine, Cambria is carrying a very interesting article called,The Fall of the House of Edwinsford by John Vaughan, who is a Trustee of the Trawsgoed Estate. Very interesting for those with connections to the estate. :)
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Hi All, Have just discovered this interesting site which certainly has some use useful Drummond information,-Cambrian Index on-line :)
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Anyone researching the Drummond Family may find this Cymuned Talyllychau, interesting. Cheers :)
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An interesting photograph relating to the Drummond family is currently available on the Talley Community Web Site. :)
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Hi
My grandmother was Eleanor Mary Williams-Drummond. I wondered if I could be of any help to anyone doing research.
Frances
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Hello Frances,
If you see my entry on page 1, you will see what I'm trying to find out. If you have any details or knowledge, I would welcome hearing from you.
Regards
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Hi
I wondered if you have seen this website. I have linked the page from Sir James Hamlyn Williams WILLIAMS-DRUMMOND 1857 –1913.
http://thepeerage.com/p12232.htm#i122314
You may already know a lot of this info. Madelaine Violet Maud Agnew is my Great, Great Aunt. Her sister being Marguerite Violet Maud Agnew. She married Francis Dudley Williams-Drummond. Who had 3 children Eleanor Mary Williams-Drummond (my grandmother) who had my Dad – Robert Hugh Elliot 1923-1999. Not sure if this is the side of the family you want to know about but I have a brother and 2 children.
I remember my Great Uncle Sir William Hugh Dudley Williams-Drummond who had no children – he died in the early/mid 70s.
My family have some old photo albums which feature Edwinsford and people surrounding it.
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Frances,
Hope you read my previous post on page 1 - do you know of any illigitimacy in the family regarding the birth of an Elizabeth Davies, from Cwrt y Cadno, Caio and her mother Mary Davies?
Regards
CaioResearcher
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Yes I am aware of this.
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Hello!
Seeing these posts regarding Hamlyn-Williams and Drummond is very interesting.
I am related to this line through my 7th grandfather John Walker. His son Francis Walker's son was James Walker Esq. of Dalry and Captain Francis Walker.
This line includes the Williams - Drummonds from the Walkers of Hawthornden and Dalry who changed their name and removed Walker.
I would sincerely appreciate any assistance with my research please.
I am interested in anything anyone would be kind enough to share. Pictures and stories would also be wonderful please?
Kind Regards,
Jim Walker
Related surnames:
Walker Hay-Newton Drummond Hamlyn-Williams hepburn McLeod Hay Mackenzie
Yelverton Turnbull
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Have you seen the Annals of Edwinsford, Clovelly and Hawthorden. They are bits and pieces including letters between individuals, part histories and family trees including taking the Walker Drummonds back to King Robert the Bruce and Hamlyn Williams back to King Edward III.
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Hello ef003:
No, I have not seen the Annals. Could you PLEASE give me the cotact referral information please?
Regards,
Jim Walker
scotlandforever7 at sbcglobal.net
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Hello ef003:
What a great find that information at the Wales library is.
Unfortunately I could find no way to view this information online. Of special interest is the line back to Bruce that you mentioned.
Might you know of a way to view this material online please?
Thank you.
Regards,
Jim Walker
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Not sure of online methods. Have you tried and scottish sites/museums or registries? I know you get clan museums and societies maybe they can help.
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Hello everyopne, Im researching a road from Edwinsford to Abergorlech through Cwm cwtta and possibly Llethr Llewyd Farm which is currently recorded as a byway along the bank of the Cothi. It has 3 miles stones on it according to the 1906 maps and Im trying to find out if it was built for the estate and if it then became public. Any info on it between 1950 to the current day would be much appreciated including who paid for the milestones.
If anyone has seen reference to this road in their research Im trying to find out where I can look for info. Currently going through the Trant files in Carmarthen.
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Hi Jimmy
Have you tried some of the old Solicitor's firms in Llandeilo. I think one of them did some of the legal work / surveying for Edwinsford. Sorry its a few years since I lived down there and I can't remember the names.
Frances
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John francis perhaps. I'll have a look. Thanks
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John Francis may have some info. Are you local to Llandeilo? I've not been back for 10 years there used to be (and I presume it is still there) a chartered surveyors/legal practice or something like that next to Coopers the Butchers and across from the 3 Tuns I was thinking of them. Its in the small 1 way road diagonally opposite the church.
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In the pictures you have, are there any of the milk lorry or the road that was put in to access Llethr Llewyd Farm or any of the gate house? Apparrently there was a gate house at the Abergorlech end as well. Any idea what it was called. Its not there now.
Id like to get a copy of the Annals of Edwinsford. Any idea where I could obtain one? Unusually there seems to be lots of info on this estate but too much for me to go through with a fine tooth comb :(
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Hello :)
Annals are part of the Edwinsford Estate Records which are available at the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth
Morgan
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For Jim Walker - the originator of the post, I have some personal correspondence written by Sir James Williams-Drummond to his wife whilst in the Carmarthenshire Artillery dated 1893 and 1900.
Let me know if you are interested!
regards
Simon
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Hi Flinty
I would also be interested in seeing this if possible as they were my great grandparents.
Thanks
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The correspondence is 4 letters, one written May 27 1893, and then June 23, June 24 & June 25 1900. All are on headed Royal Carmarthen Artillery Note paper from Fort Popton, Milford Haven and are accompanied by 2 envelopes addressed to Lady Drummond.
I am happy to show them to you, if you are able to let me have details, I should be able to scan them and send them to you via email or hard copy! I have them as my father used to deal in historical documents etc for a living and following his death have inherited these items.
regards
Simon
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Hi
That would be brilliant as I would be really interested in reading them. I will send you my details.
Many thanks
Frances
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Hi ef003, I have just found this site and have joined in the hope that you will be able to assist. I have long been interested in Edwinsford and the families that have lived there. I met your late father on a couple of occasions and he kindly loaned me several photograph albums with the title, ' A book of memories' by E. Williams - Drummond. At the time I took several photocopies. If you are now the ownere of this album, I would very much appreciate the chance to take another few copies of a higher quality, especially of the house that your grandparents lived in, which is where I now live. Thanks.
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Hi, Yes I do have them. I will send you a message.
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Hello Javeilinman :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Once you have made 3 posts, you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data (e.g. family names, email addresses) with other Rootschatters.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Thanks for the info. Hopefully this message to you will count as one of my three!
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It certainly does! :D
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Hi Jim Walker, thanks for your message. I only joined today so have not earned enough points to have a PM! Hopefully this post will do the trick.
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I live at Edwinsford Farmhouse overlooking the mansion, and have researched that house and family and have some local knowledge. I am always looking out for new stories and information, and willing to give some too. Let me know if anyone is interested in chatting.