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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: franm101 on Saturday 05 July 08 02:35 BST (UK)
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Hi there
I am doing some family research and I am looking for the family and history of my great grandad John Friar born in Letterkenny Co Donegal, 25 June 1872. I have found an IGI record of them on the family search.org website however they were R.C so assume they changed to suit a lifstyle. His parents were Daniel Friar and Mary Mcbride. Had 2 sisters Catherine and Mary and a younger brother Dennis. I have just found my great great grandad Daniels possible Will on PRONI and apparently they lived at The Glebe Magherenan County Donegal??? I am in New Zealand. I would greatly appreciate any help you can give. Thanks muchly
Fran Talia
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Welcome to Rootschat.
IGI lists 4 children to Daniel Friar & Mary McBride:
1. Catherine born 3 March 1867 Letterkenny district.
2. Mary born 29 Oct.1869 Co. Donegal.
3. John born 25 June 1872 Co. Donegal.
4. Dennis born 28 Dec.1875 Co. Donegal.
There could be other children simply not in IGI (many but not all Irish births 1864-c1882 are there). 1864 was the start of civil registration of births so any older children will not have birth certificates.
Do you have John's birth certificate? IGI entry lists his birthplace as Co, Donegal not Letterkenny. Catherine's brth is listed under Letterkenny district but she may have been born in a townland within that registration district and not Letterkenny itself.
Don't understand this part of your posting:
I have found an IGI record of them on the family search.org website however they were R.C so assume they changed to suit a lifstyle.
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Hi here
Thanks for the welcome! No death certificate yet but I do have his marriage certificate which states Letterkenny Co Donegal as his place of birth. The trouble is that im in New Zealand and he changed his name to Fryer over here so anything here is unreliable. I am assuming that from Daniels Will record at PRONI that that is where he was from :-)
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Oh and I am confused why they had records with IGI as they were Roman catholics...atleast John was when he came to NZ :-)
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The records of the 4 children listed in IGI are taken from civil registrations of birth which is nothing to do with their religion. Civil registration of births, deaths and Catholic marriages in Ireland started in 1864 (other marriages from 1845). For earlier dates you need to search for church records.
John most likely gave Letterkenny as his place of birth (on marriage certificate) as that was the nearest town to where the family lived but only was you'll know for certain where he was actually born is from his birth certificate.
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ok thanks! i had been advised that the IGI was morman based and one index that the Catholics did not share their info for. I was also told that the C before the number iven as a batch number meant the information was given by a church organisation. Ofcorse this is just info passed onto me so im not sure myself :-)
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Here's a bit about Irish records on LDS site:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03rx/
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Thankyou! Thats very helpful! I cant fid his one there though C701501...nevermind :-)
So now do you advise trying to get John birth certificate to confirm birth place?? :-)
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Birth certificate would give townland where John was born.
You mentioned before finding a will for Daniel in PRONI index- how do you know this is really John's father Daniel?
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Well ofcorse I dont know for sure. Its only a possible however the dates fit and also the place and his widows name...how would I know for sure?? :)
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That's my point- there could be more than one Daniel Friars in the area. Until you know for sure that your Daniel lived in the townland mentioned in the Will and that he died at that time you can't be sure.
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I agree with you there...im very new at this so please excuse my lack of knowledge. I have checked just about everything I can online and without census records from that time period its almost impossible to get any more information about the family. Especially since I am in New Zealand it is very difficult. Not sure where to go from here. I think even if John birth certificate proved he was born in a certain area it doesnt mean they resided there....any thought of where to go next?? Thanks :-)
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Children were almost always born at home in those days. On the birth certificate it will list the place of birth and also residence of father if different. In other words if mother went home to her mother to have baby that townland will be listed but will also give usual residence.
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Ok got it! I will look into getting Johns birth certificate somehow...thanks for your help :-)
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Fran,
The Glebe and Magherenan are both listed as townlands in the parish of AGHANUNSHUN in Donegal. This parish is right next to the parish of CONWAL which contains the town of Letterkenny. From what I can gather these townlands do come under the CIVIL REGISTRATION DISTRICT of LETTERKENNY. You could request a search for the birth certificate from the Registrars office at Letterkenny. The charge is 6 EUROS for a copy if found and I believe 2 EUROS if not found. I would give them a call to check postage costs to NZ. I pay 1 EURO postage to the UK. They take payts by credit card. Tel no. is (074) 9124576 or 9123772 and address is Cvil Registration,Tirconaill House, Letterkenny, Co. Donegal, Ireland. As they hold records for various registration districts in Donegal you will need to advise your request is for LETTERKENNY REGISTRATON DISTRICT.
Would be worth a try particularly as you have exact date of birth.
Angela
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This is very helpful thankyou Angela! I was confused about the whole 'The Glebe, Magherenan, Letterkenny' thing. Does this mean that the Glebe is the road in Magherenan, in Letterkenny?? The parish being the church?? Thanks kindly
:-)
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I was confused about the whole 'The Glebe, Magherenan, Letterkenny' thing. Does this mean that the Glebe is the road in Magherenan, in Letterkenny?? The parish being the church??
The Glebe and Magherenan are both listed as townlands in the parish of AGHANUNSHUN in Donegal. This parish is right next to the parish of CONWAL which contains the town of Letterkenny. From what I can gather these townlands do come under the CIVIL REGISTRATION DISTRICT of LETTERKENNY.
It is only fairly recently that roads in the countryside had road names. The townland is 'address' which will identify where a family lived.
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Ok so a townland would have been a small area occupied by a few families/residences?? And would they have lived in little communities from the same church?? Sorry for all the questions. You are being most helpful :-)
Fran
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Townlands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townland
http://www.ballybegvillage.com/land_division.html
If the family were Catholic they most likely went to the parish church but most other religions were free to choose which church they attended depending on availability of churches in the area.
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Fran,
The Glebe and Magherenan are both listed as townlands in the parish of AGHANUNSHUN in Donegal. This parish is right next to the parish of CONWAL which contains the town of Letterkenny.
Hi Angela
May I ask where you got this information as when I google AGHANUNSHUN it doesnt find anything?? Thanks muchly :-)
Fran
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Hi Fran,
oops!.......it should be Aghanunsh(I)n. So sorry for sending you on a wild goose chase. :-[
This link shows all the parishes of Donegal and their locations on a map. Aghanunshin is listed as no. 1 which is at the bottom of Kilmacrenan Barony (in Blue)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bhilchey/DonegalMain.html#Civil%20Parish%20Map
If you click on the link to Aghanunshin it lists the townlands within the parish. Here it shows the townlands of Glebe (13) and Magheranan (22).
Hope this helps!
Angela
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HI ANGELA
THANKS VERY MUCH!! I EVEN FOUND MY GGGRANDAD LISTED FROM YOUR LINK....VERY KOOL!!!!! :-):-)
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Thats great Fran!
Glad I managed to be of some help after previous spelling error (!) :)
You should maybe keep an eye on this site for updates. Aghanunshin is not listed as yet but the site has grown enormously over the last few years so hopefully resources for this parish may yet be included:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/
PS your post got me looking at Wills on PRONI to see if any of my lot might be included. I hadn't really considered Wills before as assumed they applied solely to the 'wealthier' classes. But I have found a couple of potentials. So thanks for that 'nudge'!
Angela
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yOU ARE VERY WELCOME! i HAVE RECENTLY CONFIRMED THIS BEING MY GGGRANDFATHER AND FOUND HIS DAD IN THE SAME PLACE. jUST WAITING FOR THE DEATH CERTS IN THE MAIL NOW :-)
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Thats a great result. Well done!
Angela
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Thanks! do you know if we can get full copies of these will probates from PRONI?? I have been tryin to ring them all week but no reply ...:-)
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Yes I wondered about that myself. The site advises that they will be put online but dont know when this will be.
However I have found the following infirmation from another's Rootschatters post (sorry, not sure how to link it). It states that copies can be obtained from PRONI fro £5.35 each. A form can be sent to them with your CC details to make payt. Im not sure, but the following email address was stated - proni (AT) dcalni (DOT) gov (DOT) uk, so I am presuming you need to email to obtain a form? Someone will maybe clarify this for us.......?
Would be well worth it if you dont want to wait (like me!). And not too expensive.
Angela
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Fran,
I contacted PRONI re requesting copy wills. You need to email them the details (name, residence, date of death and date of probate). They will then locate and order the copies from the reproductions department. When they receive the copies they email a form to you to complete with your payment details.
I have requested one of mine today.
Angela
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Yay! thankyou so much!! I will get onto that straight away :-) :-)
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There is only 1 surname Fryer(Friar), Daniel in County Donegal on Griffiths so this is surely Daniel who died in 1870 father of Daniel m Mary McBride
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Thanks for that! Yes the strange thing is that GRO only hold a death record of Daniel Friar died 1870 not Daniel Friar died 1890...any ideas there?? Thanks again :-)
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There is always a possibility that the death was not registered. You could check with Letterkenny registry for death cert specifying various spellings.
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Thats a good point...his son came here spelling his name Fryer so its always a possibility and I thought at the time of 1890 his death would certainly be registered or need to be legally?? Thanks :-)
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The name was spelt Fryer in Griffiths
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_results.php?familyname=fryer&firstname=&countyname=&submit=Start+Searching
Did you get Daniel and Mary McBride's marriage cert?
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Thanks for that.... no I have no idea when they married but their first born child that was registered was 1865 so dont think they would have a certificate of marriage?? They were catholic however but im in NZ so very hard to get in contact with people.. Any ideas there?? Thanks again you are being very helpful :-)
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Fran,
I contacted PRONI re requesting copy wills. You need to email them the details (name, residence, date of death and date of probate). They will then locate and order the copies from the reproductions department. When they receive the copies they email a form to you to complete with your payment details.
I have requested one of mine today.
Angela
Hi Angela
I have emailed the addy you had given in the last post twic a week ago and still havent heard from them..any luck at your end?? Thanks
Fran
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Hi Fran,
I just had a reply yesterday. Unfortunately mine did not leave a will, only letters of administration issued and those from before 1900 were destroyed :(. never mind, at least I now have a date of death.
I am sure you will get a reply some time next week as that was 11 days. Hope you have better luck!
Angela
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Oh no!! :( Was yours from Co Donegal too?? Mine were both before 1900 also so theres not likely to be much more than what Ive seen either...dates of death are certainly a bonus but when I enquired about death certificates I only got one for the 1870 death and not the 1890 which is very strange. Apparently there was no death certificate for the 1890....which leaves me with no date of birth...can always estimate. Keep in touch and let me know any further advancements in your research! Hugs! :-)
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Fran,
It's only cos mine had no actual will that there was nothing. Original wills and letters of administration 1858 - 1900 were destroyed but the "copy will books"survived. So if there was a 'will' you will be able to get the info from it.
Re death 1890, as per post from Derrylass, it is worth contacting Letterkenny Registrar Office as the local offices are more willing to search name variations and over a period of time than GRO.
Kind regards
Angela
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And, sorry, yes mine are from Donegal too!
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Ah ok I got ya! Why would there be will probates though without a will?? Anyways im glad it helped you some so I havent wasted your time and efforts..keep in touch :)
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Am just learning this as I go along (!) but from what I can gather the 'will calenders ' are like an index to all the wills and letters of administration for each year. PRONI has the searchable database of the will calendar entries so if it refers to 'letters of administration' only before 1900, then only the index entry itself has survived. My understanding!!
Do let me know how you get on with yours.
Angela
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This is how both of mine are...cant see any mention of what you said??
Title:
Forename: Dan
Surname: Friar
Alt Surname:
Date Of Death: 05/07/1870
Date Of Grant: 05/03/1873
Effects: Effects under £50
Registry: Londonderry
Full Abstract:
The Will of Dan Friar late of Maghrenan County Donegal Farmer deceased who died 7 May 1870 at same place was proved at Londonderry by the oath of Dan Friar of Maghrenan (Letterkenny) aforesaid Farmer the sole Executor.
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Heres the other one...
Title:
Forename: Daniel
Surname: Friar
Alt Surname:
Date Of Death: 12/09/1890
Date Of Grant: 27/07/1892
Effects: Effects £785
Registry: Londonderry
Full Abstract:
The Will of Daniel Friar late of The Glebe Magherenan County Donegal Farmer who died 9 December 1890 at same place was proved at Londonderry by Mary Friar of The Glebe Widow one of the Executors
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So both of yours are actual wills and you will be able to get the copies...Lucky you!! Its not bringng up the wills search page for me just now for some reason but mine likely just said "letters of administration" in the abstract.
Angela
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Ok yes some say 'administration of the estate of...' and some the the 'will probate of...' and some say the 'will of....' so maybe mine are there...I checkedmy emil and the last one I sent was on the 26th of August...maybe they wont get back to me?? :-)
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course they will ;D. Just takes a bit of time for them to work through all the requests.
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Ok ill stay positive...will let you know...thanks for your help 8)
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hi, i went to proni last month to look at 3 wills but two of them turned out to be administration bonds. i think administration bonds where issued when someone died without leaving a will. the 2 i looked at where helpful all the same as they where signed by 3 people who were unknown relations(to me) of the deceased, and also contained the location of the land that they rented or owned. it was very exciting to open up the documents that had actually been handled by long dead ancestors. so basically it might be worth looking at anything that proni lists.
tony
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Thats very helpful thankyou! I am not able to visit there myself as I live in New Zealand but will be patient and wait for the reply email from them. :-)
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An update to report....I recieved the full copies of my ancestors wills and although I didnt get any new information it did confirm family members and their exact place of residence :-):-)
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Thats great! Shame you found out nothing new but its always good to get confirmation of what you know.
Angela
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Yeah it is and I did get some newly found information confirmed that John Friars sister Catherine did marry a Diver and became Catherine Diver so now I have a new lead to follow with her :-). How are you getting on?? Any new finds for you?? :-)
Fran
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Hey Fran.
How are you?. I'm fine. Still plodding away. I noticed that the Donegal Genealogy Resources website now has Aghanunshin Parish project. There are 1901 census transcripts including Glebe, which includes your great granfather John and brothers and sisters at household 9. dont know if you have this already but here is the link. Noticed there is a Diver listed also as a nephew:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/1901Glebea.htm
Keep checking the website as there is bound to be more info added.
Angela