RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: deeiluka on Saturday 28 June 08 12:45 BST (UK)
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I have a wonderful old family photograph album from the mid to late 1800s.....only problem is that the photos are not named. My grandmother did write names above some of them; then allowed a son to borrow the album, and he let his children play with it. Consequently the photos were all swapped around! >:( >:(
For one of the groups of names my grandmother wrote, there is only one photo that is a possibility, and I am posting it below. The young lady third from the right hand side is Therese Maria Deimel.
I have been scanning the photos and feel that the photos that I have attached to the next message are also the same young woman. But I'd really like other opinions please.......
.....dee
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The other two photos.....
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All the same person, Dee ... or triplets
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I would say they were definitely the same person too.
Alexena :) :D
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Certain they're the same person.
Joy :D
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.
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Hi,
Sorry, but I'm about to throw a spanner in the works :-[
I think the second photo is the young girl, Therese, but the third photo is the girl next to her, on the right (4th person along).
The lengths of the skirts and the clothing all point to that - in the second photo she is a bit younger, and if the third photo was of her, at a later age, the style of clothing I feel would be different.
I think the third photo is of a sister, which is why they look so alike.
Paulene :)
The group photo is lovely by the way :D Was it taken in France?
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Hello all
I'm with Willow on this.
2nd. photo is Therese,3rd. photo woman 4th. from left.
In the 2nd. photo I'd say she was about 13-14,still in child's clothing.
Jim
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I'm with Jim and Willow ;)
I thought that before I got the Charle's blow up and Willow's comments.. nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking
Jenny
lovely photos Dee
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woman 4th. from left.
same eyes,same mouth,same chin & same (slightly protruding) ears.
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Hi Dee
Just a clean from me
Irene
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and
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Thanks, folks ......help much appreciated. Have just had a quick read of your thoughts and need to read again. :D :D :D
Cleanups are great, Irene......special thankyou for you. :D :D
.......dee
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Lovely little baby, dee :)
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She's a delight, Willow....such a good baby too.....
....dee
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The ears have it...those ears look the same on all three.
If not the same gal, then close relative.
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Hi,
Sorry, but I'm about to throw a spanner in the works :-[
I think the second photo is the young girl, Therese, but the third photo is the girl next to her, on the right (4th person along).
The lengths of the skirts and the clothing all point to that - in the second photo she is a bit younger, and if the third photo was of her, at a later age, the style of clothing I feel would be different.
I think the third photo is of a sister, which is why they look so alike.
Paulene :)
The group photo is lovely by the way :D Was it taken in France?
Pauline, they all look so alike as they are all either siblings or cousins.
Therese Maria is a twin, and I am sure that the second photo was taken the same day as one I have that I think is her twin brother. I'll get it scanned and post that too.
The photos were taken in Adelaide, South Australia, in the 1860s, and the people in them are the children of my German immigrant great great great grandparents who settled in the Mt Lofty Ranges. They came from the Wesfalen area of Germany.
.....dee
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Hi Dee :)
Here is a quick clean up and colour from me of the young girl. Lovely pics. I hope you like them
Cheers
Lones
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Thanks for coming back to me - I'm always curious to know where they were taken.
I wondered if the name was french, as I have an aunt, from Paris, who is called Therese.
I still think that the girl (no.3) is the one on Therese's right, and probably her older sister - but I could be wrong. We'll have to see what the final verdict is :) Always good to hear other people's opinions.
Such a lovely photo to have in your collection - one to treasure. In fact they're all lovely.
Paulene :)
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Pauline, I am a little confused now as my grandmother definitely has Therese as the one fourth from the left (third from the right.) .....but shall post a couple more......one with the names on as my grandmother had them, and a couple of others to see if that helps.
There must be between 60 and 70 of these pohotographs......real treasures......but no names..... :'( :'(
Well....there are names written under some, but they can't be taken as matching.....men above women's names etc. >:(
.....dee
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Lones.....much appreciated. :D :D
I have left this photo album in the cupboard for years as "too hard" but finally felt I should try to do something to at least work out some of the people in it.
.....dee
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Sorry, dee - then the third pic is the same as Therese (in the group photo).
Still think they're probably sisters - Therese the elder of the two.
Paulene :)
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Hi dee,
I agree. Lovely photos.
Can you tell me if there is a studio imprint or name on any of the photos.
And do you have an approx date for them.
Julie
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The group photo was taken by Belcher Brothers, Artists and Photographers, Adelaide.
The photos of the two young women were taken by E Farndell,83 Hindley St, Adelaide.
In the group, from left to right, my grandmother has named them as......
Auguste Ehmcke (born Deimel, and my gg grandmother born 1846. )
Rebecca Rundle born
Therese Rundle born 1854
Therese Deimel born 1854
Gesina Rundle born 1851
Julius Deimel born 1848
Rebecca Rundle is the only one I don't know anything about. The Rundle children and the Deimel children have mothers who are sisters.
I think the photo would have been taken between 1867 and 1870 at the very latest......
.....dee
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I have one Deimel photo with a name on the bottom of it, Paul Deimel. It appears to have been taken at the same time as the second photo I posted.
I'll post Niksmum's restore again together with the photos of the young men and I think you'll see what I mean.
.....dee
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and the other two photos.....
The first one I think is Wilhelm Deimel, twin of Therese Maria......
.....dee
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Think you're probably right about Therese's twin being Wilhem (young man holding hat).
I think the one entitled 'deimel son' is probably Paul, but it's not quite so obvious.
Hope this helps.
Paulene :)
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Yes, it does, Pauline, thankyou.......Julius in the group photo looks a little different to the young man in the individual photo. :D :D
.....dee
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Yes, he cerrtainly does ;D
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Here's a different question......in the group photo Auguste (Deimel) Ehmcke (1st on the left) is dressed in white. Nearly all the younger women are holding flowers.
Does anyone think it may have been a photo taken on the occasion of Auguste's wedding? Is that a possibility?
.....dee
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Hi Dee,
Not sure about that one - could be a wedding, but not 100% sure.
Found this for you to read, though:
http://www.literary-liaisons.com/article003.html
Anyway, must get to bed.
Take care,
Paulene :)
Great to see all the photos - thank you :)
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Thanks, Pauline...off to read it now.
Appreciate all your time and thoughts. :D :D
.....dee
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Hi dee,
Yes, I would agree there is a strong likliehood that it is a wedding day.
In the background the structure is a kind of material use which is familiar to anyone who has been to South Australia, namely the local stone combined with red brick used on corner and wndow/door areas.
Many many early churches used this material style and this makes me think the photo could be outside a Church or important building of sorts.
Some of the younger women are dressed very similarly [ though a shorter hem for the younger girl] and this is what we still do today with bridesmaids.
Also the flowers in hand which you mention.
My thoughts anyway ;D
Sue
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Thank Sue.....all thoughts valued. They help to clarify things in one's own mind......
......dee
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Hello all
I'm with Willow on this.
2nd. photo is Therese,3rd. photo woman 4th. from left.
In the 2nd. photo I'd say she was about 13-14,still in child's clothing.
Jim
Thanks Jim. The enlargements certainly make the two young women look different. Much appreciated. :D
And yes, Therese Marie was born Dec 1854....so may well have been around 13 or 14 when the photo was taken.
I'll just keep struggling on with these. :-\
.....dee
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Dee....My initial thoughts were - this is possibly a wedding and the building is definitely like the stone buildings in South Australia....I have lived in a couple of early built stone homes in country SA and also one just over the border in Vic, built by a Cornish stonemason.
Dee I see that August was married in Sep 1879 at St Patrick's Presbytery, Adelaide. Wonder if this is the building in the background.
Have you a photo of his wife Mary....
Cheers
Cando
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Sorry Cando....wrong marriage......Maria Anna Catherina Auguste Deimel, known as Auguste, and Maria, ::)
married Johann Theodor Wilhem Ehmcke on 21st November 1967 at the German Lutheran Church, Angas St, Adelaide. Ehmcke transcribed as Ehmoke. ;D
But it could be there anyway......
Added....The Ehmckes were a quite well to do family ......had arrived in 1848 and done very well for themselves in the young colony of South Australia.
However, the Deimels were totally different. Their father abandoned them to go to the Victorian Goldfields and never returned, leaving their mother to struggle alone for seven years to bring up 5 children. After seven years she married a bootmaker, so would have had limited income even then.
.....dee
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Oops - well it could be a church :-[
I wonder what other church there would have been other than a German Lutheran Church!
Cheers ;D
Cando
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Lovely pictures Dee...I hope you post some more from the album ;D
mab
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The more I look at all the photos I have....the more confused I seem to be getting. ;D ;D
I'm going to spend some time cropping out faces and comparing......see if that helps...... :-\
.....dee
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Hi Dee..............Heres an colour interpretation of your great photo.
Carolyn :)
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That's great thanks, Carolyn. :D
I've been cropping heads off various photos and lookin at them alongside each other......
I think these are the two that folks agreed are the youngest girl, Therese Marie ......
.....dee
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And here's the one that Carolyn has just coloured on the right hand side, with the one that my grandmother indicated was Auguste (Deimel) Ehmcke on the left. The one in the middle is very definitely August Deimel Ehmcke in later life.
Do either of them look like the middle aged Auguste?
.....dee
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dee, The eyebrows of the middle one and the young one on her left are alike. [ie the young one that is on the RHS as we look at the screen]
Maybe they are photos of the same person?
Lucky you having these pics.
charlotte
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Dee, I agree with Charlotte about the eye area on the one right of screen and the one in the middle but I don't think the chins are alike but could be wrong.
I envy you having such a wonderful pictorial record of that family.
Joy
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Well I thought I had put this on here earlier this morning...but it seems to have wandered off, so I'll have another go...
My first thought seeing the group was that it was bridesmaids, I can't think of another reason for all the girls to be holding flowers.
The family seem to have a distinctive shaped head, flat top, straight sides and pointed chin, and those wonderful large sloping ears.
Easy to pick out family members, hard to say who is who.
For my money the one on the right is the same as the middle one, the one on the left may have been just fed up, but she is holding her head differently.
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Auguste in the middle would be at least twenty years older when that photo was taken......and a little plumper....... ;D ;D
.....dee
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Morning all,
Agree tha the pictures (2 side by side) are both youngest girl.
With regard to the 3 photos I think the eye socket shape and ears of the girl on the right are very similar (same)- chin not quite the same, but age may have affected this + smile.
Anyway, off to church in a few minutes - look forward to logging on later and seeing the progress.
Bye for now.
Paulene :)
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agree with Joy,all the facial features are the same ( particularly those sticky out ears) except the chin but this could easily be a trick of the light.Certainly not the girl on the left.great photo's.
Jim
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Great Jim and Paulene.....I'm really feeling like I am beginning to get somewhere with this group of photos.
I should have added a fourth photo to that group for Auguste....so have now done so.....
....dee
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last 3 same woman,in the 3rd. & 4th. she's even wearing the same earrings.
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dee, the three on our RHS as we face the screen are the same person surely?
charlotte
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My feelings too, Charlotte and Jim...... :D
Great spot there Jim....certainly didn't notice that. :D :D
So now I feel I have Auguste Deimel who married Johann Ehmcke and Auguste's little sister Therese Marie.
If that is the case, then it wasn't Auguste's wedding photo, if indeed it was a wedding photo.
However, I have been thinking again.....my grandmother actually named the young woman in white in the group photo "Auguste Ehmcke".....and I presumed she meant Johann's wife August Deimel. (I know...we should never presume anything! ;D )
But maybe she meant it was Auguste Margarethe Friedericke Ehmcke born 1845.....
Here's the young woman that is dressed in white in the group photograph ....with my gg grandfather Johann Theodor Wilhelm Ehmcke as a middle aged man and two of his daughters....and there seems to me to be a family resemblance.....especially around the eyes.......thoughts this time?
......dee
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Hi Dee..........Heres another colour version.
Carolyn :)
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Now isn't he a good looking young man, Carolyn......many thanks! :D :D :D
......dee
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I see he's got a support up his back holding him up ;D
Perhaps he'd had a few.
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Both Julius and Paul Deimel ran pubs at some stage, Jim! ;D ;D ;D
Later Julius took off for the Kalgoorlie Gold Fields with his family......and I think Paul went into farming......not absolutely sure about that though....
.....dee
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Drinking the profits ;D
Ok back to the story
Auguste Ehmcke being Johann's sister,is that what you're thinking.
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That's what I am thinking, Jim......
Problem is they all had long German names and often used the same name for more than one child...... ::) ::)
.....dee
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So what do you think the line up is now in the "wedding" photo,based on the info.
Out to lunch,see you later.
Jim
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THis is what I am thinking now......
.....dee
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dee, very satisfactory evening for you I'd say. Clever of you to fix the picture so labelled.
charlotte
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Back again, Dee,
Catching up with the progress.
So, how would the dates of births for them all run now - from left to right?
Paulene :)
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As Therese Deimel is about 15-16 in the photo is there a wedding c.1870?
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Auguste Margarethe Friedericke Ehmcke married in May 1873. But that would make Therese 19. :-\
Her sister Emma Franziska Christine married in 1868......
Maria Catherina Auguste Deimel married in 1867.....that's why I thought it might be her wedding.
The Rundle girls didn't marry until well into the 1870s......
I'm getting a bit worried about the girls supposedly the Rundle girls as I have checked their birthdates.
Labelled photo coming up.....
.....dee
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Beginning to think this is a hopeless task.....the two ladies at the back surely can't be the Rundle girls if the photo is set around 1870 and the age of the young girl is right. :-\ :-\
.....dee
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Anyone able to guess at the age of the two women at the back? ??? :-\
.....dee
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I think the photo may be earlier than 1870 - I think if Therese was 16 her skirt/dress would be longer.
http://www.logicmgmt.com/1876/shopping/girls.htm
I have a photo of one of my husband's ancestors taken just when she reached 14 and her skirt is a simialr length to Therese's in your photo.
Paulene :)
I can post the image if you need to compare the style - it was taken in 1867/8 - sadly the young lass died not long after, with heart problems :'(
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Ahhhh..... thanks for that Willow....I really was getting worried about the age discrepancies.
I'd appreciate seeing your photo. :D
However, I think one of the older women must be the unknown Rebecca Rundle rather than Therese Rundle born 1854......
....dee
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Here is Annie's photo, Dee.
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Thanks Paulene.....even Annie's boots look like young Therese Marie's in her individual photograph.....so sad that so many youngsters died so young.......
So 1865 and the wedding of Auguste Margarethe Ehmcke wouldn't be out of the question....... :D
.....dee
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Yes, it is sad - they lost their 21 year old son two years later, too. He was one of the first photographers in Nottingham - may well have taken this photograph.
Glad it's starting to come together more :)
Not easy is it!
Paulene :)
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Certainly isn't...... :-\
But if it was around 1865, then the women at the back are definitely not who my grandmother said they were.....in 1865 cousin Gesina Rundle would only have been 14. But it could be her mother Gesina I suppose, although her mother would have been over 40.
.....dee
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She looks over 30, in my opinion.
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I agree. Think I'll have to try track down a Rebecca Rundle....who looks even older to me.......that's the name my grandmother had and I changed the order around when we decided that August Deimel was 4th from the right.
Looks like I have a task for today..... ;D ;D ;D
.....dee
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Have to admit, Dee, that I'm a bit confused by the birth dates - thought Julius was a twin, or have I got that mixed up ???
Paulene :)
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Auguste Deimel b 1846
Julius b 1848
Paul b 1850
then the twins.....
Therese b 1854
Wilhelm b1854
:D :D :D
.....dee
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ok - thought Julius was the twin ??? :-[
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OK....found two Rebecca Rundles in Mt Barker, which is where my Rundle family lived......one was born 1851 and married in 1876, the other was born about 1835 and married in 1857.
Also tried a search to see if there were any Rundle babies born with a mother Rebecca....but not a one.
......dee
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Which would make her early thirties then - right?
Paulene :)
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It would.....and that fits. Where the connection is to my Rundles I have no idea.....but Rundle only became a part of my family when Gesina Appelkamp married John Rundle......maybe Rebecca was a sister of John. That will be hard to check, as records only start at 1842...... :-\
.....dee
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So what other records could you use then, Dee?
By the way, am I right in saying (going back to the earlier part of the thread regarding churches) that Australia had Unitarian churches failry early on?
One of the Richards girls married a Unitarain minister - he came to New South Wales to temporarily look after a church, but then became a schools inspector and stayed.
Paulene :)
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Settlement only started in 1836 Paulene....so Rebecca's birth in 1833 would be overseas..... :-\
Added.....No father given for John at his marriage to Gesina Appelkamp, and there were several different Rundle families in the early settlement. :(
I believe there were many different churches here very early on......
But initially baptisms, marriages and burials were recorded in the Parish Records of Holy Trinity Church, Adelaide.
.....dee
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Hi dee,
Asked about photographer imprints to check own photos to see if I could get a date corresponding to your photos.
BUT... none of mine have those photographers on them.
I googled the names but got no help about when they might have been working in Adelaide.
Seems like you have got close dating anyway from reading all the posts.
I thought they wore black dresses for getting married in back in the old days. ;D
Julie
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Hi Julie,
Other photos in the album have ....
Otto Von Hartitzsch & Co Artist and Photographer 113 Rundle St
Anson S (?) Francis Adelaide Photographir Institution 87
H Strother Stephens Place Adelaide
San Francisco Photo Co Glen Osmond Road
T Burtea Artist and Photographer By Appointment to HRH The Duke of Edinburgh 66 7 68 King William St Adelaide
P Schourup Portrait Painter and Photographer Port Adelaide
Professor Hall Photographist Hindley St Adelaide
H Jones King William St Adelaide
T Duryea 66 King William St Adelaide
and there are possibly more...... ;D ;D ;D
.....dee
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You may find this link useful ;D
http://www.artgallery.sa.gov.au/noye/Photogs/Phot_set.htm
Cheers
cando
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That is absolutely brilliant, Cando......can't spend time there just now....but will this afternoon! :D :D
Many many thanks.....shall add that to my increasingly "humungous" number of favourites! ;D ;D ;D
.....dee
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Hi Dee..............All these wonderful old photos are a colourist's delight.
Carolyn :)
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Thankyou again, Carolyn. :D :D
Tis lovely.....
And there's plenty more....I just counted the photos in the album....there are 86.......
Just imagine if I could put names to them all! 8)
....dee
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Hi Dee.............and another.
Carolyn :)
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I posted the wrong one silly me heres the correct one.
Carolyn :)
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Like both of those anyway, Carolyn. Thanks again......think I'll have to post the one I think is Julius Joseph so I have the whole family...... ;D ;D
.....dee
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This one looks as though it was taken at the same time as the one of Auguste Deimel, so maybe it is Julius Joseph.....that would make the five children......
.....dee
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First we had the same ear rings....
Now with Julius Joseph we have the same pillar as with Therese Maria...and I'd stick my neck out that it is the same basket only not so many flowers as with the young Therese Maria(?)...
Also that chair with Therese Maria(?) looks the same as the one with William. The one with Paul looks similar to Paul or Julius.
What does everyone else think?
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Hi Dee,
Just found this re. ladies clothing - I know the dress (last one on page) on this is more detailed but the shape and sleeves, etc are similar:
http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/3timesearch/tsnineteenth/1860-1869/1860-1869.html
Paulene :)
Great observative on props, Paula :) Sometimes you get fixed on details you miss the other things ;D
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Thanks Paula and Paulene.
I'll have a look at that website too.
Actually Paula, that is how I am sorting the photos......by photographer where named, by props and background and floor coverings etc.......
The website Cando gave me has been a great help with a couple of photographers. I've been able to get a few photographs to within a couple of years, so that is a start.
I think I have found another photo of Auguste Deimel after she was married as well.
Photos spread everywhere at the moment! ;D ;D
....dee
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Don't complain, Dee ;D - you're so lucky to have them.
Only joking :)
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Brings back happy memories of trying to sort our Eliza Ann, dee.
It was bits of paper then, Census, BMDs, Notes, all the stuff Mary turned up...
I got there in the end...you will too.
Enjoy the paper chase.
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Oh, I really do appreciate having them all.....even if I don't know who they are.....I know they are mostly family and I get a glimpse into their lives.
And thanks to you kind people, I am learning lots through having this thread.....so there's another bonus....... :D :D
.....dee
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I think we all are, Dee - that's one of the great things about being on rootschat - you learn something new every day :)
Paulene :)
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Dee,
I was searching for somebody else today, and found this lovely selection of photos - look at all the 1860 ones - lovely. :D
Had to pass it on to you.
Hope you're making progress.
Paulene :)
http://www.cartes.fsnet.co.uk/date/main.htm
Enjoy :)
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Hi Dee..........Heres the last and I have been left pondering whether the curtains and chair should have been the same colour throughout the photo's.
Ah well what do they say about variety.
Carolyn :)
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Thanks once again, Carolyn....they make a very good set....different colours or not! :D
I have been making exciting discoveries......posted about it on the other thread I have running. Think these photos are going to keep me busy for many weeks! :o :D :D
.....dee
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Hi Dee........You are so lucky to have some wonderful photo's and I am pleased you like the ones I have coloured so far.
Carolyn :)
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Carolyn
Your colour renderings are great...as some one who wouldn't even venture there I'm always amazed at how the restorers on rootschat do it ...you did a lovely job. It's very interesting that when you add colour that the people become real and viable .... :)
mab