RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cambridgeshire => Topic started by: S.J Detective on Wednesday 25 June 08 19:28 BST (UK)
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Bit of a long shot this one, but I am researching the Tally Ho Inn in Great Wilbraham where my Grt Grt Grt Grandparents were landlords circa 1861-1871.
I would be interested to hear from anyone who might have information about the Inn and it's history in the village. It was on High Street, but not sure when it ceased to be an Inn.
Also any information on The Gate Inn also in Great Wilbraham circa 1881 -1901, where my Grt Grt Grandparents were landlord's.
Thanks for looking
SJ Detective
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S.J.Detective,
If you could let me know which of your Cambs families were running those pubs in Gt. Wilbraham, I'll make enquiries next time I'm up at the CCRO, possibly later this week. Will also ask one or two people with local knowledge of the village,
Regards, keith
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Hi Keith,
Here's some names for you.
At the Tally Ho! previous to 1861 I'd be looking for William & Sarah Ireson and their daughter Elizabeth Ireson who appears to have taken over the family business according to census. In Dec 1863 Elizabeth marries Joseph Pilgrim. Elizabeth Pilgrim is quoted as Publican 1861 at the Tally Ho! and thereafter. Joseph appears to die before 1871 and Elizabeth sometime after 1891.
Elizabeth had a daughter Mary Ann Ireson (appears illegitimate) and she marries Charles Cross in Oct 1874 a Baker. They both run The Gate Inn as Bakers/Publicans until I'd guess Feb 1915 when Charles dies. I believe Mary Ann dies about 1930 in Little Wilbraham.
Hope that helps a bit. I look forward to hearing how you get on. Many thanks for your time in looking and helping with my research.
SJ Detective
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Fine, S.J Detective,
I'll see whether I can fill in any more details when I'm up at Shire Hall tomorrow for a while...
keith
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S.J Detective,
I expect like me you've googled and discovered South Cambs District Council planning applications, with particular reference to the one: C/0416/60
"R/O Tally Ho Public House Gt Wilbrahm. Erection of Houses and Bungalows 01-07-1948 In progress.
But I'm imagining you're wanting to know what happened between 1891 and 1948, whether it continued as a public house...
Haven't been to the village recently, but would you like me to take a photo or two of what is there now next time I go?
keith
N.B. Not quite sure what "R/O" means, any ideas anyone?
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HI Keith
Rear of ?
Rosie
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Rosie,
Could well be that, so maybe it was still there in 1948 after all...
keith
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So, S.J Detective,
I did have a quick look in some Cambs directories, the ones for 1864, 1869 and 1879, but could find no mention of either pub, or the name IRESON; though two or three other public houses were mentioned for Gt. Wilbraham at this time...
Sorry I couldn't find anything more,
keith
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Rosie,
Could well be that, so maybe it was still there in 1948 after all...
keith
Certainly looks possible Keith,
I can't find any mention of it other than the planning that you found. Not even pictures on the Francis Frith postcard site ???
All I kept coming up with was The Tally Ho in Trumpington which is where some of my family were in the late 1800's.
Rosie
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Rosie,
What a coincidence, this is. I used to walk along the Trumpington Rd from Cambridge when I first came to live here in the early 70's to have a drink in the Tally Ho ( and The Green Man...and The Unicorn...)
Pretty sure that THIS Tally Ho was demolished some time ago, though...
keith
Wait a minute, perhaps it was another pub on the High Street that disappeared, not the Tally Ho, as I think that's actually still there....!
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Rosie,
It was The Grasshopper that disappeared, just remembered. Obviously too many pints sunk in the village in my youth are playing havoc with my memory...
keith
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Keith
I have also savoured the liquid refreshment in the Tally Ho Trumpington, about 5 years ago then on to the Unicorn for lunch. I had to stay sober though for the coach journey home. I will return. ;D
Rosie
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Rosie,
I do hope it wasn't you who had to drive that coach home...!
Now where has S.J Dectective got to since Thursday? We need to discover how much about the subsequent fate of the Tally Ho he/she already knows. Will certainly pay a visit to Gt. Wilbraham next week to have a look along the High Street, and maybe ask a few questions of elderly residents (if there are any left living there)...
keith
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Hi Keith & Rosie99,
Great to hear from both of you and many thanks for your time and help in looking for Tally Ho information.
I know absolutely nothing about the Tally Ho, apart from what's on Census returns and these give it as being on High Street, Grt Wilbraham. I had found the 1948 planning application but wondered if it was redeveloped soon after and demolished in phase two once the rear had been developed?
I know Joseph Pilgrim died sometime before 1871 and that Elizabeth (Ireson) his wife carried on as Publican until at least 1891. I don't have a death date for Elizabeth Pilgrim. Not been able to locate her or the Tally Ho in the 1901 census yet. That might be useful if anyone can locate it in 1901 and who was living there?
It would be great if you could take some photos of the area Keith and ask the locals about the Tally Ho. I've not been able to get over to the Cambs area since I started this research a few years ago, so any photos and snippets of local history would be very gratefully received. Sounds like you know the area and it's Inn's very well Keith?
My Grandparents (mothers side) were from Grt Wilbraham/Lit Wilbraham area so we have strong family connections with the area. All I have seen recently is the Google mapping imagery so would be nice to see the village from the ground.
As you say the Tally Ho in Trumpington is refered to a lot but the Tally Ho at Grt Wilbraham seems to have been lost in the mists of time, perhaps as you say some locals might remember it?
Correction to my original post - The Gate Inn was in actual fact in Little Wilbraham.
Many thanks again, I look forward to hearing from you again soon. Sounds like I owe you a pint at a local hostelry.
SJ Detective
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Hi again, S.J.,
Thanks for all that additional info...
And perhaps if The Gate Inn was in Lt. Wibraham it might possibly be the same place as The Hole in the Wall at 2, High Street which has been a pub in this village "for 500 years or so". The present gastro pub was reopened 2 years ago after refurbishment.
There's a slight chance that I might get out that way later this afternoon and see whether I can find anything out, at both the Wilbrahams...
keith
p.s. It looks as though the only pub in existence today in Gt. Wilbraham is The Carpenters Arms, also in the village's High Street
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S.J.
Went to the Wilbrahams early evening, and although the Hole in The Wall was still closed I took 2 or 3 pictures of the outside; then a lady came out wanting to know what I was up to - so I asked her whether the pub had ever been known by a different name. She thought it had always been the name it was now, but I wouldn't take it as gospel quite yet.
Gt. Wilbraham had just the one pub in the High Street, The Carpenters Arms - didn't look wonderfully exciting, so we drove past. But I did take snaps of both churches - and a white-flannelled cricket match in the next field once I'd heard the evocative thwack of willow on leather over the churchyard wall in Gt. W.
Did have a very quick look for IRESON gravestones there too, but there were so many illegible inscriptions.
So, if you'd like me to send the photos I took, please PM me with your e-mail address and I'll try and master the technology!
I had fun doing it all, and treated myself to a meal and a pint in the next village, Fulbourn, by the way, before I headed home again.
Regards, keith
N.B. I suppose I could have killed a few more birds with the same stone by having a look for members of your HANCOCK family in Fulbourn churchyard, but by then I was too busy murdering a pint of cider and a steak and ale pie in The Bakers Arms...
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Hello,
The Tally Ho! is still there in Great Wilbraham on the High Street. Although it is now a private house I have been picking my Mum's brains and she thinks it was still a pub in the 1950's and possibly 1960's. The building of houses and bungalows certainly never happened in 1948 probably because the village didn't have mains drainage. The last publicans however did have a bungalow built in the back garden which they moved into before selling the pub although by then it hadn't been a pub for some time.
The Gate pub however was in Little Wilbraham and not Great, this sadly has been demolished and there are two houses built on the site one named "The Gate". Harry Cross who was Charles' son was the organist at Lt. Wilb church he retired from playing the organ in 1965 at the age of 87 having begun in 1897 at the age of 17. When he started his wages were £2 a year and when he retired they were £12. In all those years he played the organ at two services every Sunday and missed only one Sunday in 1918 when he contracted Flu! There is photographof Harry Cross in the vestry at Little Wilbraham church.
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SeeBee,
What a wonderful piece of informative local knowledge! Thanks so much for that, after my trip out there I was very curious myself, and had indeed spotted a house called Gate House, I think, in Lt. Wilbraham.
Hope SJ is still watching this thread, as your post pretty much answers all the questions...
Very best wishes,
keith
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Hi SeeBee,
Fantastic news about the Tally Ho and Harry's organ playing in the church. Many thanks for spending the time researching and posting on this thread SeeBee, very much appreciated.
News coming in all the time about the Tally Ho!, it seems the Fabb family may have moved in after Iresons, either to the pub building or bungalow, not sure which yet? Lots more research required on the building and change of use yet I feel. My family seems to think the Tally Ho as a building still stands today, can anyone confirm please?
We were not aware that the photo of Harry was still on display in the church, just that something had been given to the church after his death, by a cousin to commemorate his long and illustrious church organ playing career. Some fantastic anecdotal information, very grateful for your post SeeBee.
Thank you very much, very best wishes
SJ Detective
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Sorry bad form to reply to own message but SeeBee confirmed Tally Ho building still stands as a private house today. Just noticed that I missed that in the mists of my previous reply.
Thanks again SeeBee
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...and just as a p.s. as other Rootschatters might want to know what's going on - S.J. and I have been PM-ing one another, and I've promised in the not too distant future to get hold of the key to the church at Lt. Wilbraham (and permission) and take a snap of that photo of his ancestor Harry.
What a thoroughly satisfying thread this has turned out to be!
keith
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Hi,
The Fabb family ran the Tally Ho until it closed. Their daughter and her family then lived in the main building and had the bungalow built for her parents some time before the building was then sold on.
As my Mum is a church warden at Lt Wilb would you like me to take said photo? might be easier. She also lives a hop and a jump from the Tally Ho! so I could snap that too while I am at it.
Caroline
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Caroline,
I'm sure S.B Detective would think that was a great idea! The two of you could PM one another and exchange e-mail addresses and perhaps effect things that way. Though I'm pretty sure (if you could handle the technology - I'm totally hopeless at this, I'm afraid) that it might be fun to see a picture of Harry on this thread. Just to round things off neatly...
keith
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Here is Harry.
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Caroline (SeeBee),
Absolutely fantastic, what a wonderful picture of my Grt Grandfather Harry Langton Cross who was church organist for 68 years at Little Wilbraham church in Cambridgeshire.
Thank you for your time and for posting the image, very much appreciated.
Very best wishes
SJ Detective
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Caroline,
That's truly wonderful to see the images of Harry on here.
Very well done!
keith
p.s. And I bet 68 years as the organist in the same church must just about qualify for a place in the Guinness Book of Records...
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Oh wow, I have just found this site through putting in "The Gate" at Little Wilbraham where my Great, Great, Great Great Grandfather Thomas Cross (married to Ellen) was living with his son Charles who was the Baker and Publican (1881). Another son "Henry" was my Great Great Great Grandfather and that branch of the family moved out to Swaffham Bulbeck and Burwell to work as Agricultural Labourers. I know Charles had a son called Ireson (Christian name)which is another surname mentioned on here who was (if I'm right) the brother of Harry who was pictured. There were 2 other siblings I know of, Wlliam and Maud (were there any more?) My tree goes down the "Henry Cross" line and my father is still alive and living in the area. To see the photo's of Harry actually moved me to tears. Thanks for posting them, I'm so glad I found this site. Hubby and I are moving away to the Isle of Wight in a few weeks so I thought I'd find some more info for Dad before I go. He will be thrilled to see the photo's of Harry. It seems I've found another distant but ?local relative on here! Jenny (nee Cross)
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Big Jen,
Welcome to Rootschat! You have stumbled across a particularly successful thread here, and I totally agree that it is wonderful to have linked up someone (two people at least now!) with a vivid example of their ancestry - in this case the remarkable Harry...
Very best wishes,
keith
Jenny, you might try sending a personal message on here to S. J. Detective, to see whether there's more in common family details you could exchange/share...
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Sorry a bit dim, but not sure how to do that on here, don't want to put my email on here directly and I think that's frowned on anyway. Can you give me a clue please............
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In case anyone is wondering whether Jenny is till struggling to connect up with people by PM on here - she's not any more, we've exchanged a couple already!
keith
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Just a progress report, I've been PM'ing SB Detective and we certainly do share ancestors through Thomas Cross born in 1811 (my 3rd Great Grandfather - his son Henry was my 2nd Great Grandfather and Charles's brother) Have just looked back further and although I didn't have it before have now reached the Tally Ho myself with the Somerset link to Elizabeth Ireson and Leicestershire to her mother Sarah.
Not overly sure where the Tally Ho is now although have gathered it is a private house now. Am visiting my parents today in Great Wilbraham so perhaps will take their dog for a walk through the village to try and find it. What wonderful infomation to give my Dad before we move overseas (Isle of Wight, lol) Maybe I'll take my camera just in case I find it.
Thanks to you all for such a wonderful thread.
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Here is the certificate presented to Harry commemorating his life time achievement as church organist at Little Wilbraham church for 68 years. It would seem a church organ fund was set up in his name, does anyone know if the fund was successful in achieving a new church organ? Or is the original one that Harry played still in service today?
I hope that everyone has enjoyed reading this thread. This hand crafted work of art seems to be a fitting tribute to my Grt Grandfathers services to the church and local community. He lived at The Gate Inn where he was the local baker and publican for most of his life with his wife Martha Susan Fulcher originally of Chesterton. The Gate Inn backed onto the churchyard so his journey to work (hobby) was merely a walk down the garden path and a hop over the fence.
Would love to hear from any one researching the Fulchers of Chesterton or anyone else who may have family memories of the Wilbraham villages.
S.J Detective
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What a wonderful certificate, S.J.Detective!
And if you want, next time I'm at the CCRO I can see what I can find about Martha FULCHER. Would she have been baptised at St. Andrew's Chesterton, do you imagine?
Regards, keith
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Hi Keith,
Thank you that would be wonderful, there is some mystery surrounding the exact date and christening of Martha. I believe she was born June 1882 (Free BMD) and christened 31st March 1883 (family birthday book). I've not got around to ordering up her birth certificate yet and that would help a great deal. So far as I know Martha was the youngest of 7 children born to Benjamin and Charlotte (Asplen) in the Chesterton area. St Andrew's is worth a look, but I'm not sure how big the registration district of Chesterton was at this time?
I look forward to hearing what you might find out, thanks again for your kind offer and continued input to this great topic.
S.J Detective
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S.J.Detective,
This thread has grown too wide to see properly- I think it's something to do with that large image of that certificate you put on here.
Could someone with a bit more technical nous than me please try and sort it out for us...?
Back to Martha FULCHER, there were no entries at all for Cambs for that name on the IGI when I tried familysearch.org just now.
keith
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S.J. Detective,
Yesterday I went to the CCRO and looked up in the St Andrew's Chesterton PR's, but there was only an Ernest Arthur FULCHER, baptised on 13-1-1887 to a Joseph and Emma MERCY.
Possibly a close relative of your line, but then I looked in the St Luke's Chesterton PR's, and there were your lot!
St Luke's is nearer the centre of Cambridge.
I'm going to start a new thread for you with them on.
In the Look-up Requests, Cambs...
Regards, keith
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Hi Keith,
Thank you very much for the info on the Fulchers and for starting a new thread. Not sure where Ernest Arthur Fulcher fits in yet, but I'm sure he will somewhere.
As to why the above image is so big I really don't know why it came out that way? I made sure it was the correct file size and type. It's my first attempt at uploading an image so any feedback most welcomed.
S.J Detective
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Hot news
Visiting my parents today for the last time before we move to the Isle of Wight next week, I found and visited Little Wilbraham Church and Graveyards. Surprisingly the church was open but there was no-one about. We wandered through the graves in the adjoining graveyard and I found Harrys grave. I should have taken my camera but hoped my mobile phone camera would be good enough which sadly it wasn't. The grave is through the wall to the left of the church and if you turn right is about 2 or 3 graves down on the right hand side. He is buried with his wife (died 1953) and his daughter. The grave is partially covered by nettles which if I had had my stick I would have cut down. It was sad to think he hadn't had a larger and more fitting resting place. I have attached a photo of the grave although sadly you can't read it, I am really sorry it wasn't a better photo. I took a copy of the certificate to my Dad who was thrilled and can't believe he has ended up so close to his ancestors.
Hope you find this info useful.
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
Many thanks for posting the photo, your time and help has been very much appreciated on this topic. Good luck with the move across the water to the IOW.
Keep watching Rootschat and I hope to keep in touch with you about our ancestors when you are settled into your new home.
Very Best Wishes
S.J Detective
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Here is the certificate presented to Harry commemorating his life time achievement as church organist at Little Wilbraham church for 68 years. It would seem a church organ fund was set up in his name, does anyone know if the fund was successful in achieving a new church organ? Or is the original one that Harry played still in service today?
I have been finding out a bit about the fund mentioned in the certificate. It was set up as a means of upkeeping the exsisting organ which is the organ Harry played and which is still in the church today. The fund itself is still ongoing and paid for a complete refurbishmant of the organ about two or three years ago.
Seebee
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Hi Seebee,
Thanks ever so much for confirming that the fund is still going strong today and that it was used to refurbish the very same church organ that Harry played. My family were not sure if the same organ was still in the church or not and it's great to have it confirmed.
I am looking forward to visiting the Wilbrahams one day soon, but looks unlikely this year and will probably now wait until next springtime.
Many thanks, very best wishes
SJ Detective
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A bit late in the day, but with regards to pub closures in the Wilbrahams -
Gt Wilbraham: Tally Ho 1956, White Swan 1957, Kings Head 1972
Lt Wilbraham: Gate 1935, Greyhound 1969.
If licensing registers for the area survive they are in Cambs CRO as are Quarter Session records for earlier periods, but from memory, I think survival is patchy.
If any brewery records survived then Kings Head & White Swan would have been with the Whitbread Archives and copies should now be in Cambs CRO. Tally Ho was Greene King, good luck, although their attitude to researchers may have improved. Greyhound was Watneys, if there was anything it could be in either Norwich or Cambridge CROs. Gate was Star Brewery/Tolly, doubt if anything has survived but there might be something in Ipswich or Cambridge CROs
Robert
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Robert,
Never too late! And thanks very much for this extra input into what has turned into an excellent thread. No doubt S.J.Detective will be greatly helped by the information you give in your post...
keith
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Hi Robert,
Great news and many thanks for posting this interesting information, never to late as Keith says.
I'll have to make some enquires with the brewery's in question and take a look at any records if they still exist at Cambs CRO.
Very best wishes
S.J Detective
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Hi,
I am new to this so please forgive any mistakes. I think that my husband might be related in some way. his Grandmother was Maud Mary Cross (1836) her Father was Fuller John Cross and she was the Grandchild of Henry Cross 1836. Maud Mary was born in Wormley, Ware, and moved later to Roydon Essex with her husband Harold William Brace. I would be interested to hear if our family is connected. mysubee :)
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Hi mysubee,
Welcome to Roots Chat and thanks for posting your message on this thread about the Cross family in Cambridgeshire.
Henry Cross was a 2nd Grt Granduncle to me and Fuller Cross was a 1st Cousin 3 times removed. These people are on my family tree but are some what distant, so I have little or no information about them at present.
Please feel free to drop me a personal message. I might be able to help in some way with your family research. Thanks for your interest.
S.J Detective
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Greetings from the Isle of Wight - we are now well settled and I thought I'd get back to the Family History again. Sorry for my prolonged absence!
Hi Suebee
It looks like you are a distant relation of mine. Henry Cross (b 1836) was my Great Great Grandfather. He was the son of Thomas Cross (b1811) and Ellen Kidman (1811)
It gets a bit complicated as Henry was married twice
His first wife was Elizabeth Fuller (b 1836) and they married in 1859 and they had 3 children together Emma (1860) Ellen (1863) and FULLER (1867) I haven't found the exact date but Elizabeth died about 1867 - possibly in childbirth???
Henry married again to Mary Ann Parr (b 1846 married in March 1875) they had 3 children Fred Henry (b 1836 - my great grandfather) Minnie Gertrude (b1880) and Arthur (b1879) Mary had another son that also lived with them James Halls Yard (b1873)
Henry died in 1920
To link him in to the rest of this thread Henry had 2 brothers
1)Charles (b1855) who was the father of Harry Langton Cross the organist at Little Wilbraham (siblings to Harry were Ireson b1876, William b1878 and Maud b1883)
2)George (b1840)
Hope this makes sense, its always a bit confusing when there is a second marriage. I must add that everyone mentioned was born in Swaffham Bulbeck, Swaffham Prior or Burwell near Newmarket. I will need to dig a bit deeper into Fuller Cross and why they moved to Hertfordshire which oddly is where some of my Mothers family hail from!
You can check out some of the other people in the Cross Tree at
http://bigjen.viviti.com/family-tree