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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 00:38 BST (UK)

Title: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 00:38 BST (UK)
I have a John William Smith born 1858 Grimsby married to Ellen of Grimsby. Could anyone look up in the 1891 & 1901 census records please to find their children? Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 00:39 BST (UK)
I think they married in around 1881 Grimsby?
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 00:49 BST (UK)
The 1881 shows him as a sawyer

There is a 1901 entry aged 45 occ sawyer but he is married to Mary A b Grimsby 1866
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 00:56 BST (UK)
Hi Carole W, he was the son of my GG grandfather, John Smith b abt 1832 Barnoldby Le Beck Lincs, married to a Jane Todd in 1855 Grimsby. John William had several brothers & sisters mostly born Grimsby. I thought i found my John William married to an ELLEN? Maybe her name is wrong? I looked on the 1881 census & found a John William Smith married to Ellen with no children, then i free bmd i found a marriage of a John William Smith to Ellen Gavin in 1881 Caistor, i could be wrong here.
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 00:57 BST (UK)
His wife must be Mary A then Carole, i will try find more about her. Where there children named on the census please?
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 01:01 BST (UK)
Maybe he married Ellen first before Mary A? It looks in the 1881 census as if i have the right John William Smith b. 1858 Grimsby married to Ellen of Grimsby? Oh i hate doing my Smith tree lol
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 01:04 BST (UK)
Just looked in 1881 census again & he was a saw sharpener so i think we both have the right John W Smith, must have married twice dont you think?
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 01:06 BST (UK)
I think Mary could be his second wife in view of the age gap in the children

1901 as follows for Cressey St Gt Grimsby.  All b Grimsby except James

John Smith 45 sawyer
Mary A 35
Thomas 19
Margaret 18
John 11
James 9 b Beverley Yorks
William 7
Mary 3
Annie 1

I'll check in Yorks for the 1891
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 01:13 BST (UK)
Thats great Carole, thanks so much for your help again.
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 01:21 BST (UK)
I've checked the 1891 in all counties for children  Margaret and Thomas and John who were all b pre-1891 but can't find them.

There is a possible for Margaret shown as b 1882 Standford but living with relatives in Suffolk

Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Wednesday 25 June 08 01:32 BST (UK)
Thanks Carole you did great, i can work on those later but its great to find his wives & children!! You're a star & have helped me a lot in the past with my trees, thanks again.
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 08:41 BST (UK)
Deaths Dec 1885 
SMITH    Ellen    24    Caistor    7a   357

Marriages Sep 1885 This is not the right one is it? - this JWS is a butcher in 1891.
Cressey    Alice        Caistor    7a   995   
SMITH    John William         Caistor    7a   995    
UNDERHILL    Mary Anne F         Caistor    7a   995   
WHITE    John William         Caistor    7a   995

Marriage 3 Aug 1885 Grimsby
John Wm SMITH (21, son of Thomas) to Mary Anne Fox UNDERHILL (20, dau of Henry)
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 11:53 BST (UK)
Hi Geoff

Re: marriage 1885.  Don't think it's the right one as the 1901 has 2 children born before that date and wife Ellen did not die until the December qtr 1885.

Also - that Thomas was 21 when he married in 1885 but the 1901 Thomas would have been around 30

We really need to find Thomas, Margaret & John(jnr) on the 1891
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 12:51 BST (UK)
Re: marriage 1885.  Don't think it's the right one as the 1901 has 2 children born before that date and wife Ellen did not die until the December qtr 1885.  Agreed

Also - that Thomas was 21 when he married in 1885 but the 1901 Thomas would have been around 30 Agreed again ... but I don't necessarily believe everything people say.

We really need to find Thomas, Margaret & John(jnr) on the 1891

There is a convenient Q3 1891 birth in Beverley for James.

Re 1891 census ... Beverley doesn't appear as a place of residence ... If you search for people born in Beverley, most of them are living in St Martin, Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 15:06 BST (UK)
Hi Geoff

I was desperate so I didn't confine the 1891 search to Yorkshire - I did an all counties search for any Thomas, Margaret, John Smith's b Grimsby - came up with nothing (i even searched on marg** and tho*)

I then did the same search but just using Lincolnshire and that's how I found the possible Margaret
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 15:25 BST (UK)
I then did the same search but just using Lincolnshire and that's how I found the possible Margaret

I guess that one was born in Stamford Q3 1881, a good 70 miles from Grimsby ;)  Lincs is a big county!
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 15:46 BST (UK)
How's this? :)  I looked for a GAVIN and found a mother in law ... he was indexed as PRISTH  ::)

8 Robinson St West, Grimsby
John SMITH (wid) 36 Gen Lab
Thomas William 9
Margaret Ellen 8
John 1
William DOWS (bro in law,wid) 26 Gen Lab, Retford Notts
William Thomas (neph) 3
James Henry (neph) 1
Mary GAVIN (ma in law,wid) 66 Ireland
Mary Ann McCABE (niece) 24 Housekeeper
George BOWEN (lodger) 38 Gen Lab, Wales Newport
Others born Grimsby

Now if Ellen died in 1885, who was young John's mum?

EDIT: Doh!  I think it's Mary Ann McCABE isn't it?
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 15:56 BST (UK)
Hi Geoff

Take a well earned bow for that find.


Quote
Now if Ellen died in 1885, who was young John's mum?

The death you found is the right age for Ellen so the mystery deepens

Quote
Doh!  I think it's Mary Ann McCABE isn't it?


It's the best bet yet!!  She's the right age in 1901 as well
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 16:22 BST (UK)
I was going to suggest that she wasn't a niece at all but

Marriages Jun 1866   
GAVIN    Mary         Caistor    7a   1343   
McCABE    James         Caistor    7a   1343   

Births Jun 1867
MCCABE    Mary Ann         Caistor    7a   615

and I guess

Deaths Jun 1868 
McCABE    Mary Ann    (22)    Caistor    7a   353
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 16:36 BST (UK)
So Mary Ann was brought up by her grandparents I think

1871
Common Lodging House, Moody Lane, Grimsby
Thomas GAVIN 50 Lab, Ireland Mayo
Mary 40 Ireland Mayo
Winifred 14 Grimsby
Hellen (dau)9 Grimsby  (John SMITH's first wife)
Mary Ann (dau)4 Grimsby (John SMITH's 2nd "wife")
Theresa (dau) 2 Grimsby

There was a whole pageful of Lodgers that I won't name, but feel obliged to mention that one was an 80 year old German organ grinder!

1881
10 Holme St, Grimsby
Mary GAVIN (wid) 50 Innkeeper, Ireland
Teresa May 12 Grimsby
Mary A McCAVE 14 Barmaid, Grimsby
Thomas WELLS (gr son) 9 Grimsby

George BOWEN - lodger in 1891 - was lodging at No12 in 1881.

One unanswered question is the birth of James SMITH in Beverley in 1891.
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 June 08 16:42 BST (UK)
I've checked freebmd but cannot find a Smith / McCabe (or similar) marriage in Lincs between 1891-1901
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: GeoffE on Wednesday 25 June 08 16:46 BST (UK)
1861
Moody Lane, Grimsby
Thomas GAVIN 40 Laborer, Ireland Sligo
Mary 34 Ireland Sligo
Mary 14 Sligo
Patrick 12 Sligo (died 1876 aged 28)
Ann 10 Grimsby
Catharine 8 Grimsby (died 1870 aged 17)
Sarah 6 Grimsby
Wineford 4 Grimsby
Thomas 2 or 12months Grimsby (died 1870 aged 11)
plus loads of lodgers

1851
Moody Lane, Grimsby
Thomas GAVIN 33 Lab
Mary 30
John 7 (died 1860)
Mary 5
Patrick 3
Anne 6m Grimsby
Others born Ireland
Several lodgers again.

Mary GAVIN died in 1896, still aged 66  ::) having lost  about 10 years somewhere along the way.

Thomas had died just before the 1881 census aged 54, four years older than he had been 10 years earlier.
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Monday 30 June 08 22:19 BST (UK)
Gosh Geoff & Carole, you've both been working hard here! Havent been able to get online in a few days but its great to see all you have found, you've given me lots to work on, thanks so much!
Title: Re: Grimsby 1891 census look up please?
Post by: dawnuk57 on Monday 30 June 08 23:42 BST (UK)
I could do with some more help with this family of Smiths please. I have a GEORGE EDWARD SMITH (John Williams brother) born 1871 Grimsby Lincs. I would like to find his marriage & possible children? If anyone has access to 1891 or 1901 census it would be great. Thanks in advance